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Sony HDR-TD10 3D-Capable Camcorder - Page 37

post #1081 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prema999 View Post

PowerDVD Ultra version 11.0.2024.53 here.
Just drag and drop mts or m2t 3D (3D display device set to Nvidia 3D vision).

Then i just hit the 3D button and it plays perfectly.

I recall that if not in Cinema mode, powerdvd11 playback of mvc-3D files from the TD10 is actually a 2D to 3D conversion of just one eye. The result looked nowhere near as good as playback with the "Stereoscopic Player" software.

Stereoscopic player used the complete 3D 2-eye information from the MVC file

To get the actual 2 eye 3D playback with the powerdvd11 software, a bluray disk or iso of a bluray is needed, and the cinema mode of the powerdvd11 had to be selected.
post #1082 of 1567
Thanks Richard I was a bit suprised when I saw a 2D video playing in 3D and your post explains why.

I have just been trialing Vegas Movie Studio HD Platinum 11 and found it supported Nividia 3D vision on Gforce cards so it might be supported on Vegas Pro 11. I do my editing in Premiere Pro so Movie studio is all I need to produce 3D blu-ray. I am hoping like many others that Vegas Pro will add mvc encoding to m2ts files and the addition of 50i support in mvc. I would buy Pro if this was the case otherwise I would go with Movie Studio which is very good value.
post #1083 of 1567
Powerdirector 10 is out and may be the answer to all our prayers. Unfortunatly the trial version does not support what we want but according to the manual it will produce m2ts files with mvc content. Until someone tries it we will not know if these can be played from the TD10. It also looks as though it will burn 3D blu-rays with menus. To get it to run I has to use 16bit mode on my Gforce 470 graphics card.
post #1084 of 1567
post #1085 of 1567
PMB Bluray disk burning question from sony 3d camcorder.So i downloaded pmb and and the bluray software installed.I popped in a bluray disk and followed the prompts and choose the burn 2.0 deal.I have a 6x burner and the selections went on to the disk no problem.No editing nothing just burned.I do not have a bluray player to try it out but is thats all i need to do is fast burn to disk and its all good.How do i know the disk i made has The highest format mvc.Burned to it.I played it on coral and it just looked like a normal 2d bluray.
post #1086 of 1567
Hello all! I don't have much time as I am heading out-of-town and doing a test-drive of the Sony TD10.

All I wanted to confirm is that I am able to offload the recorded 3d video in MVC format to my PC (with the bundled software) and then play it from my PC to my Sony 3D Bravia using Stereocopic Player, correct? At least that is what I have dug up by going through a few pages on this thread.

I am not too concerned with authoring the files in full 3D on a Bluray right now but just more concerned that I am able to offload them from the camcorder to my PC without any loss in quality.

Excellent thread! Thank you all!
post #1087 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

Hello all! I don't have much time as I am heading out-of-town and doing a test-drive of the Sony TD10.

All I wanted to confirm is that I am able to offload the recorded 3d video in MVC format to my PC (with the bundled software) and then play it from my PC to my Sony 3D Bravia using Stereocopic Player, correct? At least that is what I have dug up by going through a few pages on this thread.

I am not too concerned with authoring the files in full 3D on a Bluray right now but just more concerned that I am able to offload them from the camcorder to my PC without any loss in quality.

Excellent thread! Thank you all!


Maybe we have been reading different posts, but I believe to see 3D on a 3D TV recorded by the TD10 (without creating a Blu-ray 3D disc) still requires playing back through the TD10 camera though the source of that playback can be from the computer's hard drive and/or an external drive. What I understand the updated PMB software to do is to facilitate creating a Blu-ray 3D disc without having to use more sophisticated 3D editing software such as Vegas. I'm sure we will get corrected one way or the other. I am assuming of course that it is full HD 3D that you are talking about and not a compromised version that degrades the original recording.
post #1088 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

Maybe we have been reading different posts, but I believe to see 3D on a 3D TV recorded by the TD10 (without creating a Blu-ray 3D disc) still requires playing back through the TD10 camera though the source of that playback can be from the computer's hard drive and/or an external drive. What I understand the updated PMB software to do is to facilitate creating a Blu-ray 3D disc without having to use more sophisticated 3D editing software such as Vegas. I'm sure we will get corrected one way or the other. I am assuming of course that it is full HD 3D that you are talking about and not a compromised version that degrades the original recording.

NorthTV:

Good point......hope someone can clarify one way or the other.

I was doing a search and found this guide and it clearly shows in the Sony Vegas Pro 10e GUI that the OP has offloaded the TD10 files on to his PC's hard drive. Take a look at Vegas Pro's file explorer pane on top left side of 2nd JPEG from left of OP's guide: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1347180

I also have downloaded 3 sample TD10 3D files that have been offloaded and posted on a couple of review sites with the extension .MTS

When I load any one of these sample files in Sony Vegas Pro 10e, this is what shows up in stream info:

Streams
Video 1: 00:00:20.800, 25.000 fps interlaced, 1,920x1,080x12, AVC, AVC
Video 2: 00:00:20.800, 25.000 fps interlaced, 1,920x1,080x12, MVC, MVC
Audio: 00:00:20.800, 48,000 Hz, 5.1 Surround, Dolby AC-3, Dolby AC-3
post #1089 of 1567
f13dfx- The referenced MTS file is a raw file from the TD10's internal memory. While it is possible to extract that file onto a computer hard drive and play it, the file has not been properly formatted for such purpose and will result in unexpected trouble. Even if you can play the MTS file it will not be suitable for editing, the audio and video will not be in sync and they may even be of different time lengths. The longer MTS clips will also be truncated to under 2Gb. All these issues are handled in PMB transfer. Always use the PMB software supplied with the TD10 camcorder which does a number of housekeeping tasks, including a file name change to transfer the video files from the TD10 to the Computer hard drive. This information has been posted here and in other forums hundreds of times but people still feel they have to do things the wrong way.
My suggestion is to just forget about the MTS file and do the transfer the way it was designed to.
post #1090 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

f13dfx- The referenced MTS file is a raw file from the TD10's internal memory. While it is possible to extract that file onto a computer hard drive and play it, the file has not been properly formatted for such purpose and will result in unexpected trouble. Even if you can play the MTS file it will not be suitable for editing, the audio and video will not be in sync and they may even be of different time lengths. The longer MTS clips will also be truncated to under 2Gb. All these issues are handled in PMB transfer. Always use the PMB software supplied with the TD10 camcorder which does a number of housekeeping tasks, including a file name change to transfer the video files from the TD10 to the Computer hard drive. This information has been posted here and in other forums hundreds of times but people still feel they have to do things the wrong way.
My suggestion is to just forget about the MTS file and do the transfer the way it was designed to.

Don Landis:

Thanks for the clarification. I have read your idiot's guide. Where I had assumed incorrectly was the raw MTS file. All I wanted to point out to NorthTV was that one could offload the videos taken by the TD10 using PMB on to their PC for archiving, and not having to connect to the TD10 for future editing using Sony Vegas Pro 10e.
post #1091 of 1567
BTW, I do not own a TD10 yet! I am doing a lot of reading in forums as I intend to buy one and give it a trial run on my trip to Europe
post #1092 of 1567
If you are planning a multiday trip to Europe, you may want to consider taking along a small USB hard drive. I have two here that are 120Gb Western Digital "Passport" USB 2.0 that I have used for extensive trips for archiving video for several years now. Today you can buy much larger like 320Gb and I believe 500Gb. These plug directly into the camcorder with a special supplied USB adapter cable that you get with the camcorder. In a couple days of heavy shooting you will fill up the camcorder's internal memory. You don't need a computer as the offloading of the clips is directed right in the camcorder's system. Read the manual for details. Once you have archived your clips to the drive each day you can then delete the clips from the camcorder to make room for more shooting. I always check the drive content first before deleting from the camcorder. You can play the external hard drive content from the camcorder by selecting it as your source. When you get home you can connect the drive to your computer and use PMB to convert the files for editing. Note- Offloading to a hard drive from the camcorder does not convert the files for use.
post #1093 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Note- Offloading to a hard drive from the camcorder does not convert the files for use.

This refers to offloading to an external USB hard drive, correct? I'm assuming that when I get back from Europe I will hookup the USB hard drive to the TD10 and use PMB to offload them to my PC.

Great suggestion on the WD Passport Ext. USB hard drive. 500gb going for $79 CDN here in Canada

I get my hands on the TD10 today!
post #1094 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

This refers to offloading to an external USB hard drive, correct? I'm assuming that when I get back from Europe I will hookup the USB hard drive to the TD10 and use PMB to offload them to my PC.

Great suggestion on the WD Passport Ext. USB hard drive. 500gb going for $79 CDN here in Canada

I get my hands on the TD10 today!

One way I use the USB drive is for a simple backup while away from home, and to offload files from the TD10 to make more room for recording. So I take the USB drive with me to use each day. It's small.

Also, I prefer to record to a removable flash card plugged into the TD10's slot, since if anything bad happens to the TD10 which makes the files inaccessible, I will still be able to get to my files by taking the flash card out and putting it in a reader.
post #1095 of 1567
Okay, just got the unit. Took 2 short indoor test shots. I'm very impressed with low light capability.

I was able to copy the 2 test shots as well as the Sony 3D demo video into my 750gb WD Passport Essentials external usb hard drive.

I installed supplied PMB version 5.6. However, I found out that I have to go out and get a Male to Male USB cable as the one supplied goes from a Mini (from TD10) to a Female

Out to get one now
post #1096 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

Okay, just got the unit. Took 2 short indoor test shots. I'm very impressed with low light capability.

I was able to copy the 2 test shots as well as the Sony 3D demo video into my 750gb WD Passport Essentials external usb hard drive.

I installed supplied PMB version 5.6. However, I found out that I have to go out and get a Male to Male USB cable as the one supplied goes from a Mini (from TD10) to a Female

Out to get one now

The USB cable you need should already be in the box. Two usb cables are supplied with the camera.

There is a grey male to male cable to connect to a PC

There is a black male to female cable to connect the USB mass storage device such as the WD 750gb passport drive. Also be sure to have the AC adapter plugged into the camera and AC when connecting the WD passport drive to the TD10's black usb cable.

Save your money
post #1097 of 1567
Thanks Richard. Yes unfortunately it is a standard Male to Mini Male grey cable

I need a standard to standard
post #1098 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

I recall that if not in Cinema mode, powerdvd11 playback of mvc-3D files from the TD10 is actually a 2D to 3D conversion of just one eye. The result looked nowhere near as good as playback with the "Stereoscopic Player" software.

Stereoscopic player used the complete 3D 2-eye information from the MVC file

To get the actual 2 eye 3D playback with the powerdvd11 software, a bluray disk or iso of a bluray is needed, and the cinema mode of the powerdvd11 had to be selected.


I contacted Cyberlink in August about playing TD10 files as a 2D to 3D conversion and they fixed it by September. TD10 files are now played as 3d files, not 2d converted to 3d files. You might need to download a patch if you have this program and it isn't working as I said.
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/pos...375.page#94795
post #1099 of 1567
Does your drive use a large size USB connection, like on a computer? The WD Passport HD's I have seen use mini USB so you just connect the gray cable to the special dongle that connects to the TD10 making a mini male to mini male and that works. Just make sure you connect your power supply to the TD10 as well, like Richard said. Just read page 44 of your manual! It's all explained.

One more thing I forgot- Be sure you format your drive with the camcorder. It will not only prepare the proper format but also set up the folder structure as needed to be compatible for TD10 media STORAGE.
post #1100 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdb1 View Post

I contacted Cyberlink in August about playing TD10 files as a 2D to 3D conversion and they fixed it by September. TD10 files are now played as 3d files, not 2d converted to 3d files. You might need to download a patch if you have this program and it isn't working as I said.
http://forum.cyberlink.com/forum/pos...375.page#94795

That's great information. I'll get an update.

Do you happen to know if any other files are supported for true 3D output, such as half SBS, full SBS, or top / bottom?
post #1101 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Does your drive use a large size USB connection, like on a computer? The WD Passport HD's I have seen use mini USB so you just connect the gray cable to the special dongle that connects to the TD10 making a mini male to mini male and that works. Just make sure you connect your power supply to the TD10 as well, like Richard said. Just read page 44 of your manual! It's all explained.

One more thing I forgot- Be sure you format your drive with the camcorder. It will not only prepare the proper format but also set up the folder structure as needed to be compatible for TD10 media STORAGE.

This is different than the way I use my WD Passport with the TD10.

First, my WD drive measures 4.25" x 3.25" x 5/8" and is model number WDBACX0010BBk-01.

I do not use the Sony grey cable at all with the WD drive. I use the WD supplied cable which has a custom connector on one side, and a male USB on the other. The custom connector plugs in the WD.

The 7" long black Sony supplied cable has a mini usb that plugs in TD10. The other end has a standard USB female, This female end is where the standard male end of the usb cable from the WD drive plugs in.

In this configuration, the TD10 supplies power to the hard drive. This is why it is important that the AC power pack for the TD10 is used. These backups can take a good part of an hour if there is a lot of data to copy.

Please note: not all hard drives will work directly with the TD10. If the drive isn't recognized by the TD10, you won't be able to use it for a direct backup.

Don's reminder to format the drive with the format command from the TD10's own menus is very important. Even if the drive comes pre-formatted or you already formatted it with a computer, Let the TD10 be the one to format the drive before you being to use it for backup / copying files.

Also, the drive must be formatted with the FAT file system. This is the format that the TD10 will use. So if the drive was previously formatted with windows NTFS file system, it might be necessary to format the drive with FAT on the PC before the TD10 will accept it and let you do the TD10's format command.

Don, we should make a single page guide for this with a photo for future reference.
post #1102 of 1567
Quote:


I use the WD supplied cable which has a custom connector on one side, and a male USB on the other. The custom connector plugs in the WD.

Nothing custom about it. The Sony Gray cable is a standard USB mini to USB A ( flat) male to male. Your WD drive is the latest rendition of the Passport series. It has a USB A and a USB Micro male to male. In addition I looked up your model and see it uses the newest compatible Micro USB 3.0/2.0 connection on the drive. More and more, devices are switching to the Micro USB. My drives are several years old and use the Mini USB which is the same as the Sony Gray cable and the connector on the camcorder. The newer MicroUSB was made popular by cell phone manufacturers early in 2010.

As a reminder the special mini male to USB A female dongle is special for the TD10. Early on I grabbed a similar USB adapter from my parts box and it didn't work. Important to use the one supplied by Sony. The Mini USB has 5 pins, the pin 4 can be wired for a detection circuit. I suspect Sony rigged this in the TD10 to make sure people used the proper hookup with their dongle cable. Using the optional detection loop in the mini connector, Sony uses that to throw the TD10 into a "external USB device ( media hard drive or the Sony DVD burner) is connected" vs just a computer connection.
post #1103 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by f13dfx View Post

Thanks Richard. Yes unfortunately it is a standard Male to Mini Male grey cable

I need a standard to standard

My apologies to all, I finally figured it out:
1. Short Black USB Mini A to Female Standard A USB is for connecting an external USB hard drive like my WD Passport.
2. The longer Grey USB cable which has USB Mini B on one end and Male Standard A USB on the other end is for connecting the TD10 to a PC.

I was fooled by the USB receptacle on the TD10 into thinking that it would only take the BLACK cable and not the GREY one, since the Mini A and Mini B connectors did not look the same.

Anyway, all is well sort of. My Sony Vegas Pro 10e is installed in my WinXP SP3 32bit OS part of a dual boot system with Windows 7 Professional 64bit, where I have installed PBM. Somehow, I cannot install PBM on my WinXP OS. It's just a hassle switching OS from PBM to Sony Vegas Pro.

Also, successfuly burned a 3D BD-RE of 4 test videos I took and offloaded to my PC via PBM. I used the 1280 x 720 60p template in Sony Vegas Pro 10e and it played fine on my PS3 and outputted to my Sony LX900 3D XBR.

Well I'm off to Europe with the TD10. Hopefully I'll be able to share/post some 3D videos/shots. Especially excited to do night shots of the Eiffel Tower.

Special thanks to Richard & Don for all the help!
post #1104 of 1567
Speaking of idiots...after finally reading Don's note on this page about not just copying the MTS files and using PMB to import from the camera, I realized all the troubles I'm having trying to edit in Vegas are probably related to me just copying the MTS files. So it looks like my months of videos that I copied in USB mode lack some keyframe and bitrate information, which would explain the weird laggy videos I'm rendering. Damn. Does anyone know if you can at least re-index them or add the bitrate tag somehow? They play fine as they are, but as mentioned, causes editing woes.

So the reason I didn't use PMB is because I looked at it for a minute and couldn't stand the childish interface. My question is, will the Content Management Utility import the TD10 files 100% correctly? That I can use, rather than PMB.

Thanks.

btw - as people with 3DVision rigs probably know the new version of Vegas Pro (11) supposedly supports normal GeForce cards for 3D playback. Test before you buyI tried every configuration and couldn't get it to work. But I am using dual GTX 580's in SLI configuration, which should work (better) but as we know doesn't always.
post #1105 of 1567
To tell you the truth, I haven't even looked at the content management utility. Sounds interesting and if it works as suggested, it may shorten the workflow. I promise to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion. As for the comment about PMB looking childish???? Well, lets just say who's looking childish now? .

Some card aren't supported but the 580 is definitely. Maybe you need to upgrade your drivers. I had to for my "supported" card. The other difficulty is getting all the configs set properly. You have three areas besides hardware wiring to be done properly. First set your windows up to recognize dual displays, then set the nvidia utility for correct resolution and which is which. Make sure your card is set to "extend the desktop" Finally you need to have Vegas set to recognize where to put the preview on secondary monitor.


On replacing clips with the proper ones, I know of no way to do that easily. There is a way to copy and paste event attributes to selected clips, but not to manage the cut points. If yopur clips were short, the issue of audio sync will not be severe. But my testing on a very stable system has no indication that Vegas crashing is caused by MTS files. Issues with MTS files are entirely sync, and truncated long clips that need stitched together. The file naming convention assigned by shooting time is merely a convenience. IMO selecting the clips with a 5 digit sequential number that is TD10 default is much harder to understand than the date time shot in the explorer. Of course once you add the clip to your timeline you can see the thumbnail of the MTS in the Project Media window.
post #1106 of 1567
Quote:


To tell you the truth, I haven't even looked at the content management utility. Sounds interesting and if it works as suggested, it may shorten the workflow. I promise to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.


First of all it isn't called "content Management Utility" but I knew what you were talking about.
Curiosity kept me up another hour on this!

Well this is a game changer, indeed.

The procedure is pretty simple:
1. Connect your TD-10 to the computer with USB. Suggest you connect the power supply.
2. Ignore the PMB if it launches automatically.
3. Launch Vegas Pro
4. Select device explorer and your TD 10 will show up as a drive letter. In Device properties you can select a folder to import the selected clips. Then just select Import! Simple.

Cool features- You will get a complete breakdown on the clip meta data in a format that is easy to see. You can preview the clip before importing. and you get a thumbnail to see what the clip is.

Once your clip is imported you can put them to the timeline for editing.

Using the Device Explorer, you will get a slight variation to tne file name. It is better than either direct copy or PMB. The name begins with the MTS camcorder sequence number followed by the Date followed by the time of day separated by underscore_. Finally the file extension is MTS, not m2ts.

More good news: Like in PMB the clips that exceed 2Gb are properly stitched together for one clip file with synced audio.


I think I just retired PMB!


If you can't locate the Device Explorer, just do a search for it in the Vegas Help file!
post #1107 of 1567
It makes no difference if you use the PMB, or the Content Mangement tool or copy the TD10 files directly from the harddisk of the TD10 to your PC. For short files that is fine. Longer files, that have been splitted during acquisition of the material, should be imported with the PMB or the Content Management tool - to ensure that you get the full audio without a break.

The only thing that you have to avoid for Vegas is to trimm the clips in the TD10. That kills the 3D effect in Vegas.
post #1108 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Adams View Post

That's great information. I'll get an update.

Do you happen to know if any other files are supported for true 3D output, such as half SBS, full SBS, or top / bottom?


Sorry I don't. I only play them as they come off the camera in 120hz style.
post #1109 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

4. Select device explorer and your TD 10 will show up as a drive letter. In Device properties you can select a folder to import the selected clips. Then just select Import! Simple.

I just tried this step but instead importing the saved 3D MTS files directly from my WD Passport USB External Hard Drive connected to my PC. Seems to work just as well.

Thanks for the guide Don!
post #1110 of 1567
I think the hint with the device explorer is a great one. Works also fine for other AVCHD camcorders, like my Panasonic 750 (I want to combine the footage with TD10 footage).
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