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Sony HDR-TD10 3D-Capable Camcorder - Page 50

post #1471 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Landis View Post

Speaking of 25 pound cameras, I'm here in Las Vegas this week for the CES show and will be testing out my rig that will use two Nex5n with different wide angle lenses, 10 mm, 12 mm, and 16mm, with ~20 inch IA. In the center between these two cameras, I have a second fluid head for independent control of my TD10 to shoot close ups. The plan is to shoot the Bellagio Fountain with this extreme wide angle rig. It weighs in at 26 pounds. Hopefully the plan works, but I expect I will be on a learning curve here too. I had planned to test this at Disney but the crowds made me abort and shoot with just a TD10 hand held.

I don't think the Red laser projector is going to be at CES this year, Don, but if it is would you mind checking it out. I'd like to find out what you think of it, especially in comparison to your Sony projector. It should be closer to final production by now. I haven't heard any rumors of new 3D cameras, but I'm sure you'll be on the lookout for those. Looking forward to your reports.
post #1472 of 1567
Hello. I'm somewhat new to the AVS Forum.
And definitely late for this game. I didn't know you TD-10 people were here.
I have to do some reading and catch up.

But I stumbled upon your TD-10 forum last night and NOTED.
But today I posted some info for others on a 3D Projector forum, and wanted to share here also.
Incase you haven't seen it. Or maybe know of another Calibration Disc or File already.


Be Joining in the discussions later!
Here's my new info below for Calibration for 3D Auto Modes on TV/PROJECTORS.



SOLOFORCE 3D Blu-Ray Calibration Pattern Disc for 3D Blu-Ray Players
(will throw your projector into 3D AUTO mode) Image will look 2D except for OPENING title.
IT WILL SWITCH DEPTHS. BECOME GHOSTY cause of the BRIGHT LETTERS ON BLACK. (Normal)

If you know how to calibrate your TV/Projector, and have the BLUE FILTER Lens
(Like the one from the WOW disc) you will be able to Calibrate COLOUR, and TINT, more accurately.

This is the link for the .ISO. Burn this to a BLU-RAY Disc, with the proper .ISO burning program...and you are set.

http://netload.in/dateiC6mazm1glI/SoloForce3D.iso.htm



SOLOFORCE 3D Calibration Pattern .MKV file for SBS Mode on your TV/PROJECTOR
Switch your TV/PROJECTOR into SIDE BY SIDE MODE when using this file.
Some Blu-Ray Players with USB accept .MKV Files. or Media Centers.
Note: The 3D settings for your projector are different when using SBS or AUTO.
The only way to calibrate in AUTO is with a 3D Blu-Ray Calibration Disc as above.
(That's what I've found anyway)

This is the link for the .MKV file for SIDE BY SIDE Calibration.

http://netload.in/dateiLmKS5nfC4d/SoloForce3DCALIBRATIONSBS1080.mkv.htm



SOLOFORCE 3D Calibration Pattern .M2TS file for SBS Mode on your TV/PROJECTOR
All the same information about the .MKV file but in .M2TS format.
.M2TS formats can play from a USB on your playstation 3. And again this is for SIDE BY SIDE Mode

This is the link for the .M2TS file for SIDE BY SIDE Calibration.

http://netload.in/datei5XWWgRzRsq/SoloForce3DCALIBRATIONSBS1080.m2ts.htm


GOOD LUCK!!!

iMIKE THEATRE
post #1473 of 1567
At CES, Sony has just announced another new 3D HD camcorder - the HDR-TD30V.
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/01/sony-hdr-td30v-handycam-camcorder/
Although I still suspect the TD10 is still the pick of the bunch with its 33mm lens separation, the release of this new model demonstrates Sony's continued confidence in the 3D market.
I haven't determined the lens separation of this new model, but it looks similar to the TD20.
post #1474 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerplay4 View Post

Another video made with the TD10 - Barigui Park (Curitiba - Brazil):

If you want to download this video in Blu-ray 3D MVC (ISO file) without compression of Youtube, follow the links:
Thanks
Milton

Very Nice. I'm late to this forum. So I apologize if this has already been answered.

Edited in Vegas 11 ?

Out put template ?

And how did you achieve your dolly shots?

Thanks.

iMIKE THEATRE
post #1475 of 1567
Thanks for the story link Andrew. Can you repost your TD30 info in the thread already started on the TD30 ? This is the TD10 thread.
post #1476 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloForce View Post

Very Nice. I'm late to this forum. So I apologize if this has already been answered.

Edited in Vegas 11 ?

Out put template ?

And how did you achieve your dolly shots?

Thanks.

iMIKE THEATRE

Yes, was edited with Sony Vegas 11.

The template is: 1920x1080, interlaced Upper field first, frame rate 29,970, side by side (half). Render with template Sony AVC/MVC MP4, frame rate 59,940, progressive scan, bit rate 25,999,360.

The slider is Konova Slider.

Milton
post #1477 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerplay4 View Post

Yes, was edited with Sony Vegas 11.

The template is: 1920x1080, interlaced Upper field first, frame rate 29,970, side by side (half). Render with template Sony AVC/MVC MP4, frame rate 59,940, progressive scan, bit rate 25,999,360.

The slider is Konova Slider.

Milton

Thank you very much.
So I am to understand the your first template was for H SBS, and the Second Template is your FULL 3D Bluray .iso?

iMIKE THEATRE
post #1478 of 1567

Funny Brazilian Jiu Jitsu match at the 2013 Springfield Open
sponsored by the American Grappling Federation. Shot with a
Sony TD10 and edited with EDIUS 6.5
post #1479 of 1567
Hallo everyone here, I am new to this forum. I´d like to ask someone for help with an issue regarding my TD10. (I apologize if this was discussed here before, maybe I did not search thoroughly).......Does anyone here have an experience with attaching a telephoto lens to the front of the TD10? I am planning to shoot a wildlife documentary and therefore I´ll need to somehow increase the zoom capabilities of the TD10 to be able to shoot on long distances. I have learned that Cyclopital makes lens mount adapter for the TD10 which has 86 mm thread on it, so with the series of step-down rings I should be able to pair my TD10 with, say, the Vivitar 22-72 telephoto lens. But here comes the BUT. Since I mostly shoot in 2D and the TD10 uses only its right eye for 2D shooting (if I remember well), there is gonna be a little off-axis thing going on. Simply said - the TD10´s lens won´t line up with the telephoto lens. I must admit, beeing a technical rookie, I have no clue what this could cause to the footage. Please help me someone.....Or if you have some other suggestions on adding a telephoto to the TD10......Thanks in advance.....Jan
post #1480 of 1567
Don would probably be the one to answer that... smile.gif
post #1481 of 1567
Jan Sobr- Welcome to the forum! smile.gif

You have a pretty good handle on the problems already. While not impossible, it would be a bit clumsy to achieve. I think it was cyclopital that resolved the issue with wide angle by using two wide angle lenses that line up on each camera axis. The same configuration adapter would need to be done with a 2X multiplier for getting 20x optical or 34x digital. I don't know how much you need but for 2D, it's probably a better idea to just get a better 2D camcorder with a simple single lens mount. Most serious shooters carry several cameras that do what they do well but none do everything the best.
post #1482 of 1567
Hello, Don, I was hoping you´ll chime in - I´ve read lot of your posts here and I appreciate your knowledge. So thank you very much for your answer.............you exactly summed up what I was afraid of....a tele add-on with 2 separate lenses....Oops. eek.gif As far as I like 3D footage that the TD-10 produces, now it seems clear that it is not suitable for serious 2D work........Now I´ll have to try to trade it in for sth. geared more towards my needs - maybe NEX VG-30? Anyway, thanks a lot, Don ! J.
post #1483 of 1567
I think you are on the right track, plus, the point of shooting telephoto 3D is somewhat self defeating with the small Interaxial as the distant objects will flatten out anyway. That's why I use twin cameras on a wide bench for distant shooting.

I think you are on the right track for a really good 2D video camera in the VG30. I like the ability to put prime lenses on it. For you, maybe you'll be interested in one of those 800mm beasts. I would own one of the VG30's here if I was into 2D again. You see, I have quite a collection of wide angle prime Sony e lenses and converters now. I also have the 18-200 and really like it for my NEX 5n. But the 18-200mm for the VG30 also has power zoom which you don't want to be without in a video kit. When I shoot Video with my NEX system, I miss having power zoom.

But, if you get back into 3D, all you'll need to do is buy a second one and a home made bench. smile.gif
post #1484 of 1567
Hello. I'm somewhat new to the AVS Forum.
And definitely late but definitely hot for this game. I didn't know you TD-10 people were here.
I have to done some reading and tried to catch up just reading all these 50 pages. It took me two days. I learned allot. smile.gif

I have own this Sony HDR-TD10 for 7month now. I just love it. Because I started late compere to you I luckily missed lots of your starting problems. I am editing everything in CyberLink PowerDirector 10, which runs smooth on my computer. I use to watch my 3D videos on my 27inch PC-monitor Samsung SyncMaster TA950. I always do the avchd solution with MVC. This is so I can watch the videos in 3D with active glasses in full resolution 1080i.

My favorite object is our daughter Andrea 8years old. I shot hours on her.
Now to my problems: I shoot allot indoors so I would love to have a wide-angle or a fish eye.
I have already seen that you guys are familiar with Cyclopital 3D accessories. (I would like to by all of their assessors for TD 10) As you mentioned it looks like they have miss the fact that TD 10 has a surround mike just under its lens and there is no opening so the mike can catch the sound. Anyone who has experience of this sound recording problem? In fact it looks like the adapters encapsulate the mike. This must led to the fact that the recorded sound will become very low and dull.
Anyone who has tried the quality of these lenses to add for getting bigger angle to catch video objects with and increasing the 3D depth with? The lenses on TD 10 have very good quality according me.
Unfortunately for me it looks like no one of you has tried these assessors. Maybe they are no god and their four out of interest for you but if there are some experiences I would be very thankful to know.
Sorry for my broken and bad English, I live in Sweden, Scandinavia, northern Europa
post #1485 of 1567
Joseph Clarke in the JVC TD1 thread has a reviewd the Cyclopital Stereo Base Extender for that camera and I would expect a similar result on the TD10. The Cyclopital site also has an example video showing the differences, which I believe that Joe shot. The results looked pretty impressive for greater depth from an increased fixed base extender.

Roger
post #1486 of 1567
Fine, but be aware that there will be a minimum distance with a solution like the Cycloptial. So for indoor shooting that can be an issue, depending on the size of the room. But sure, it increases the IO and the depth.
post #1487 of 1567
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasAJonsson View Post

Hello. I'm somewhat new to the AVS Forum.
And definitely late but definitely hot for this game. I didn't know you TD-10 people were here.
I have to done some reading and tried to catch up just reading all these 50 pages. It took me two days. I learned allot. smile.gif

I have own this Sony HDR-TD10 for 7month now. I just love it. Because I started late compere to you I luckily missed lots of your starting problems. I am editing everything in CyberLink PowerDirector 10, which runs smooth on my computer. I use to watch my 3D videos on my 27inch PC-monitor Samsung SyncMaster TA950. I always do the avchd solution with MVC. This is so I can watch the videos in 3D with active glasses in full resolution 1080i.

My favorite object is our daughter Andrea 8years old. I shot hours on her.
Now to my problems: I shoot allot indoors so I would love to have a wide-angle or a fish eye.
I have already seen that you guys are familiar with Cyclopital 3D accessories. (I would like to by all of their assessors for TD 10) As you mentioned it looks like they have miss the fact that TD 10 has a surround mike just under its lens and there is no opening so the mike can catch the sound. Anyone who has experience of this sound recording problem? In fact it looks like the adapters encapsulate the mike. This must led to the fact that the recorded sound will become very low and dull.
Anyone who has tried the quality of these lenses to add for getting bigger angle to catch video objects with and increasing the 3D depth with? The lenses on TD 10 have very good quality according me.
Unfortunately for me it looks like no one of you has tried these assessors. Maybe they are no god and their four out of interest for you but if there are some experiences I would be very thankful to know.
Sorry for my broken and bad English, I live in Sweden, Scandinavia, northern Europa

Hi, Thomas and welcome to AVS. The Sony TD10 and the JVC TD1 have a lot in common, including a stereo base that is almost identical. Shooting yields very similar results in many ways, and the Cyclopital3D adapters perform very much the same. I don't know a lot about the Sony, since I don't own one, but the JVC adapters are designed to leave the microphones mostly unobstructed. Have you thought about adding an external mic? I have a Sony Bluetooth external wireless that works pretty well, but it's stereo only. There are lots of options. The wide angle adapters are very useful for my JVC - two regular wide angles and a fisheye. I think the Sony has only the two wide angles. IIRC, a fisheye adapter wouldn't work because of the Sony's design. The wide angle adapters are great, but they don't change the stereo base. The stereo base extender increases the sense of depth and roundness dramatically, but you lose the wide angle range from the normal lenses. This is unavoidable, without making the SBE too large for practical use, but whenever possible I use it. The closest object in the scene shouldn't be any closer than about 12 feet, and it's a little harder to set up shots, but when it can be used the difference is amazing.
post #1488 of 1567
Thomas- I have my TD10 modified for adding filters and done the way I did it does not muffle the audio. I use a 77mm threaded ring from a low coast UV filter with the glass removed. This ring is mounted with glue to the front lens flange of the TD10. It fits perfectly. Now I can screw on any 77mm filter and filter both camera lenses. The top of the ring is backed with some black plastic sheet cut to fit and glued in place. The bottom that is infront of the microphones are left open. I think the Cyclopital kit blocks all these mics on the TD10. On the second image the top back of the filter is blocked with the plastic to prevent back glare from reflecting on the filter and glaring out the camera.




post #1489 of 1567
Thank you for your kind answers and advises. smile.gif

Because you told me that JVC GS-TD1 and SONY HDR-TD10 are quite the same camera and there is a thread for JVC GS-TD1 I have to read this one too. It’s a long one so it will give me some days of pleasure reading. biggrin.gif

It seems like your Pro have the same problem s as I, consumer/ enthusiastic amateur, have. To create BRD 3D 5.1 with menus’. I also have half of my relatives in America and the other half here in Europe. They all are hungry for my videos BRD 3D 5.1 with menus’. They don’t know about all the problems there are. So fare I have done my 3D videos in PowerDirector.

I’m curious about making this rig for 2 SONY HDR-TD10, this will make it possible to achieve 1080p. The problem is that I don’t have a knowledge to edit this material with 2 captured videos in 1080p 5.1. How to make it to one MVC-movie?

/Thomas
post #1490 of 1567
Thomas- Vegas Pro is the best editor to handle all types of 3D content and easy to make paired video for Blu ray 3D.

I have Power director too but use it only when I want 3D menus and DTS 5.1 sound track. Here I still start with Vegas Pro for basic editing the program then complete with Power Director. The JVC also has no 5.1 audio so you would need to create that in post from your own source. I think Joe Clark sticks with stereo for his productions.

BUT- be advised that Vegas Pro is not compatible with the JVC file format. Joe Clark describes a better work flow for JVC camcorders. There are a number of differences in how you have to work with the JVC as compared with many other 3D cameras due to the special file format. Also, you need to consider the problems of shooting and editing for PAL or ATSC standards too. Wolfgang, is familiar with the PAL versions of these files. But he does not use a JVC either.

Pairing two Sony TD10's will permit you to shoot 1080 24p or even 1080 60p since you put the camcorders in 2D mode for the shoot giving you additional format options. This also will improve the bit rate for your compression. But, JVC is still a higher bit rate for their 3D files than the Sony TD10.
But taking two videos shot the same way for 3D "pairing" is east. In Vegas Pro you line up the two clips on the timeline one above the other, left eye file on top. Use the sound to sync the two clips precise to a single frame. Select each, then "pair" the two clips in the drop down menu selection. You may need to calibrate the clips alignment for best results. This calibration is done in Vegas Pro with an effect assigned to the clip. Pretty easy. Now you can delete one of the audio timelines and begin to edit the 3D paired video just like any other 3D clip.

I only did 1080 60p shooting as an experiment since it has no way to be compatible with any playback system I have. 1080-24p is my favorite standard for either burn to BD-R or render to a file for playback in my home theater, or even distribute for other to play. I also have no problem with shooting 1080 60i and let Vegas Pro de-interlace and convert to 1080-24p. For the most part, the conversion is pretty good. Once in awhile a pan is too fast and some vertical lines in the image will get separated but that is rare.
post #1491 of 1567
The PAL versions of two TD10s will allow to shoot in 1080 25p - unfortunately not 1080 24p - or in 1080 50p, beside 1080 50i. I tend to use 1080 50p, since it is a format that allows me to create every other format like 1080 24p, 1080 25p or 1080 50i. But be aware that pairing two 1080 50p streams is something that takes a lot of ressources in the preview - both in Edius but also in Vegas. So from that side it can be better to shoot in 1080 25p if you use PAL cameras, render to 1080 25p, import the result again in Vegas and stretch the timeline to come up with 1080 24p what can be burned to a 3D BD.
post #1492 of 1567
Yes, I recommend Edius 6.5 to anyone who uses the JVC. There's no way I would want to be without it in my workflow. Now that menus can be created in Vegas (even though they're 2D only), Edius and Vegas will probably be the only editing programs I use most of the time. I'll use Edius to edit the video, export the files, and then create menus and render to 24p Blu-ray 3D in Vegas. I do 5.1 audio editing in Vegas, where it's very easy and intuitive IMO. Multi-channel audio editing in Edius still confuses me. I have a lot to learn there. The area which has caused me grief in the past is the transfer of the Vegas 5.1 audio to PowerDirector, and the fact that the video quality takes too big a hit for my taste most of the time. I wish Vegas allowed for a higher bit rate in the render to Blu-ray 3D, but I think they feel they have to maintain a clear distinction from higher cost products. Still, rendering 24p at 25mbps in Vegas makes for some great looking 3D. smile.gif
post #1493 of 1567
Thank you for all your advices. smile.gif

I had to read for several days to catch up with all these fantastic threads. Unfortunately I had troubles with watching some of the videos in the threads, “Error (404) We can't find the page you're looking for. Check out our Help Center and forums for help, or head back to home”. All the points to other threads that I have to read and follow up took some time to catch-up with to but it is fantastic and interesting. I learn allot. rolleyes.gif

So fare I have ordered the book, MENDIBURU, BERNARD: 3D MOVIE MAKING to catch up with all this witch I have to know about 3D, and I have ordered a hood: Hoodman 4-inch Widescreen LCD Hood - Hoodman HD450. So I will be able to see what I shoot in the sun. Before I have to guess pretty much what I’m catching, thank you Don Landis . I have also bought a TimeLaps sender from Scotland (I already love their whiskey) so I assume I will like this one to.

(This is maybe for the thread JVC GS-TD1, where I read about it and saw video too, but I get good hints from Roger Gunkel and Joseph Clark, in this thread, thank you) I was very impressed by the little family movie in 3D with TimeLaps made by “JoeFourMan” JVC Sams grass 3d 60i. It is a way of shooting the everyday life with family happenings and friends happenings, I really enjoyed it. Since I saw that film “JVC Sams grass 3d 60i” I have to figure out how the heck he did this TimeLaps shoot. After a while I discovered that the JVC GS-TD1 3D is equipped with this toy. Then I discovered “gentLED-AUTO” on internet it makes it possible to shoot TimeLaps with our SONY HDR TD10 as well. The Camera in this movie “JVC Sams grass 3d 60i” is in this movie is equipped with the “Cyclopital3D Wide-Angle Lens” and this is what I liked to see to but for SONY HDR TD10. I think it is as you say the JVC and SONY are very similar cameras. But I fear bad sound when I use it on a SONY.

In another of the “side threads” witch I followed was about two cameras and of course the progressive catching. The thread was “When small interaxials just don't cut it!” In this tread I got hints to some of these videos that were catch with two cameras apart. It was amazing to see the 3D depth of these shots on such a distance, fantastic. I just don’t understand why …..but I received a tremendous headache after this movies. This I never had with the 3D solution of one camera. Somewhere I read it is possible to train your eyes for 3D….so maybe my eyes are 3D beginners. Well it was then I decided to order the book, 3D MOVIE MAKING. I love the fantastic movie “Bryce Canyon National Park in 3D”. Maybe I have to be satisfied with catching 3D with just one camera. I don’t get headache then, but I will miss the possibility to catches it in Progressive with fps instead of the interlaced way I have now. It makes every fast move with blur contours. Maybe in the end of this year I can afford a bigger TV with 3D or a new projector with 3D. Then I will see and discover if I still get the headache of films with two cameras. Now my 3D watching is just 27inch.

Thomas biggrin.gif
Edited by ThomasAJonsson - 2/13/13 at 5:56am
post #1494 of 1567
Hi, Thomas,

The missing videos were probably mine. I typically place videos in my Dropbox account for people to download or watch, then delete them as the 2 GB of free space fills up. You'll get errors because the old files are gone.

My eyes are "trained" for 3D. I find it very easy to converge very widely diverged 3D images. For everyone, it depends on the size of the screen, the distance from the screen, and the degree of separation of all the objects within the left/right frames. Smaller screens are much easier to converge, because the maximum distance that separates the left/right views is smaller. The bigger the screen, the bigger your headaches are likely to be, at least until you condition your eyes. Once the degree of separation of objects in the left/right views exceeds a certain amount, almost everyone will be unable to converge them. That will cause headaches, or at least severe discomfort while watching. That's the reason your Sony isn't nearly as likely to cause headaches. Like the JVC, its narrow interaxial distance minimizes how far any objects will be separated in the two eye views. A stereo base extender, OTOH, creates a wide stereo base so you get a sense of separation at much greater distances (just like using two cameras that are placed further apart). The downside is that you have to be very careful of objects in the foreground. Closer foreground objects are likely to be separated enough that your eyes won't be able to converge them comfortably. With the SBE that I use on my JVC, I can't have objects closer than about 12-15 feet, and even that can be too close depending on what's in the background. You have to learn to frame so as to avoid those widely divergent objects, no matter where they are in the stereo image. If you frame to eliminate wide divergence in the background, it may be too great in the foreground, and vice versa. And you have to be thinking about your viewers, too, and not just what's comfortable for you. That's why it's better to shoot conservatively.
post #1495 of 1567
For those with a technical bent, I've just found the service manuals for the HDR-TD10 are available online:
Service Manual level 2: http://elektrotanya.com/sony_hdrtd10_sm.pdf/download.html
Service Manual level 3: http://elektrotanya.com/sony_hdr-td10_hdr-td10e_level3.pdf/download.html
Hopefully your TD10 will remain trouble free, but if it does develop a problem, these manuals will help you save the Earth from electronic waste.
post #1496 of 1567
I tried shooting a 3D video of my CNC machine with my Sony TD10 and was surprised to find that it produced a significant amount of vertical disparity as I zoomed in.
It took quite a bit of time for me to correct it using Vegas.. I put the corrected video on YouTube.
http://youtu.be/XxeFS-lFX5E
I don't recall this camera having this issue in the past.
I was hoping to use this camera for training purposes but this makes it too much trouble for me.
Another issue is the inter axial which produces so much negative parallax when zoomed in that even Vegas can not remove it all as the YouTube video shows on the last zoom.
Perhaps the TD20 would be a better option since the video will be mostly at short range and the TD20 has a smaller inter axial.
post #1497 of 1567
It's so good to see here you again, Frank. It's been too long. Is the CNC machine a part of your new business?
post #1498 of 1567
Thanks Joe,
The CNC machine is indeed part of my business.
I haven't done much with 3D lately.
I was using Solidworks eDrawings to visualize my design assemblies in 3D using my Quadro 4000 and my Asus 120 hertz monitor and a 3D television but it fails to work so often that I finally gave up. Many calls to SolidWORKS engineers got it to work from time to time but not consistently.
I am training someone to operate my machinery and I was hoping to use 3D as part of the training. It's not looking too promising at the moment.
post #1499 of 1567
Hope the business is going well. I miss your posts on 3D. You're always doing something interesting. smile.gif
post #1500 of 1567
Frank: run the lens calibration process from the menu, maybe it helps.
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