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Why is there not more focus on IPS panels right now?

post #1 of 16
1/6/11 at 10:59am
Thread Starter 
After experiencing an IPS panel and the amazing viewing angles they offer, I cannot imagine someone wanting to do without this feature. Why is it that only LG and Vizio are pushing this panel type right now?

It's clear that companies realize this is the best LCD panels have to offer, as Apple is using it in the iPhone 4 and iPad, as well as all of their computers.


It's a shame because I'd really like to buy another Sony TV, but I simply cannot do this until they include an IPS panel.
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post #2 of 16
1/6/11 at 11:10am
LG is the developer and manufacturer of IPS technology LCD panels.

Its taken quite some time for people to realize the benefits of IPS. The reason being is that Samsung/Sony S-PVA panels can achieve darker blacks, natively without assistance from filters, video processing, and local dimming tricks.

My Vizio GV42LF 1080p LCD from 2007 has an LG IPS panel. It is a true matte screen, so no filters. The black levels are poor, but its viewing angles are excellent and it very bright. Its in a North facing room with walls of windows to the North East and West. So even with the poor blacks, the matte screen provides the best possible PQ most of the time. I could probably improve the blacks with matte screen S-PVA panels from Sony and Samsung as well as Sharp panels, from back in the day, but Ive been happy. $725 in 2007 for a 1080p IPS panel with a great OTA tuner and very good mediatek video scalers and deinterlacers was well spent.
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post #3 of 16
1/6/11 at 11:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

LG is the developer and manufacturer of IPS technology LCD panels.

Its taken quite some time for people to realize the benefits of IPS. The reason being is that Samsung/Sony S-PVA panels can achieve darker blacks, natively without assistance from filters, video processing, and local dimming tricks.

My Vizio GV42LF 1080p LCD from 2007 has an LG IPS panel. It is a true matte screen, so no filters. The black levels are poor, but its viewing angles are excellent and it very bright. Its in a North facing room with walls of windows to the North East and West. So even with the poor blacks, the matte screen provides the best possible PQ most of the time. I could probably improve the blacks with matte screen S-PVA panels from Sony and Samsung as well as Sharp panels, from back in the day, but Ive been happy. $725 in 2007 for a 1080p IPS panel with a great OTA tuner and very good mediatek video scalers and deinterlacers was well spent.


But the black level argument is irrelevant when we have LED local dimming options. I've got a 47" Vizio with local dimming and the black levels are fantastic. I can literally move 8 feet to my left and right and still see the picture as it would be seen from straight on, and this is simply not possible on any Sony or Samsung model right now, and it's the ONLY reason I won't buy a TV from them.

It's a shame consumers aren't demanding this more right now. I don't think most people realize the difference an IPS panel makes.
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post #4 of 16
1/6/11 at 12:12pm
I realize that about local dimming with IPS panels.

I was just trying to explain to you, how the S-PVA Samsung/Sony and Sharp panels came to be prized over the LG IPS panels, historically.....and thus is stuck in the mindset of the consumer.
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post #5 of 16
1/6/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post

It's a shame consumers aren't demanding this more right now. I don't think most people realize the difference an IPS panel makes.

The majority of consumers just simply don't care about details like this. Or they simply "don't know any better". As such, they base their purchasing decisions on two things 1) brand name recognition, and/or 2) wandering around Best Buy and making a purchase based on first impressions.

Ultimately, profits are all that matters to manufacturers. I'm pretty sure there's a Samsung engineer out there that will agree IPS is superior to MVA, but hell will freeze over before Samsung will pay licensing/manufacturing costs to LG/Panasonic for their IPS tech.
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post #6 of 16
1/6/11 at 12:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

I realize that about local dimming with IPS panels.

I was just trying to explain to you, how the S-PVA Samsung/Sony and Sharp panels came to be prized over the LG IPS panels, historically.....and thus is stuck in the mindset of the consumer.

It's funny because I got a Samsung and Sony model in my house last year, and the difference was amazing when I finally got my Vizio in the house with it's IPS panel. The viewing angles were so much better because of that panel.
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post #7 of 16
1/6/11 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerriot View Post


It's funny because I got a Samsung and Sony model in my house last year, and the difference was amazing when I finally got my Vizio in the house with it's IPS panel. The viewing angles were so much better because of that panel.

Does my 472xvt use an ips panel? Angles not bad.
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post #8 of 16
1/6/11 at 12:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaz01 View Post

Does my 472xvt use an ips panel? Angles not bad.

Yes it does.
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post #9 of 16
1/6/11 at 1:07pm
ahh I didn't know LG held a license on the IPS tech.. Well I am planning to buy an LG this year because I am a heavy gamer and need good response time, but also an excellent movie/bluray tv..

so far I am looking at either:

5400: edge lit, 120hz
5600/5700: edge lit, local dimming, 120hz, 3D passive
6500: edge lit, local dimming, 240hz, 3D passive

what I really want to know is if all these models are matte, because it looks like it from the pics i've seen.. I would love to have a glossy set though for the pop
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post #10 of 16
1/6/11 at 1:16pm
I don't think anyone in the real world knows what either are. I have an LG 46ld550 so I don't know if innate ips or not.. Don't think it would affect me though
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post #11 of 16
1/6/11 at 1:22pm
IPS really bad blacks but as some have mentionned, with Local dimming, it gets really spectacular. But these changes are only recent.. Until 2 years ago I believe, there wasn't a lot of TV with IPS panels and Local dimming.

If it wasn't for banding, I would have probably bought a LG 8500 this year.

The other issue is that LG can't even meet their own demands for IPS panels so they have to subscontract the built of their own TV with other panel, which leads again to the infamous panel lottery everyone mentions about.
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post #12 of 16
1/6/11 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guibs View Post

IPS really bad blacks but as some have mentionned, with Local dimming, it gets really spectacular.

Yes indeed. In fact the LX9500 was noted by CNET as having the best blacks ever achieved by an LCD.
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post #13 of 16
1/6/11 at 1:28pm
LG also needs to work on their Anti Glare treatment in/on their front panel filter. Plus get rid of the banding caused by the LE8500/LE9500's LED backlighting configuration.
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post #14 of 16
1/6/11 at 1:57pm
IPS panels are great, and with local dimming options their black level issue is becoming irrelevant. The only problem they still have is in the entry-level sector...take an LG LD520 for example, the blacks are pretty bad. I think in lower-end LED/LCD Samsung/Sony/Sharp panels still win.
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post #15 of 16
1/6/11 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

LG also needs to work on their Anti Glare treatment in/on their front panel filter. Plus get rid of the banding caused by the LE8500/LE9500's LED backlighting configuration.

Also, IPS panels are not especially fast and this shows up in higher level of 3D crosstalk.

If LG improves on all those aspects at right price point they will move to the top position. Let's see the performance of their new sets.
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post #16 of 16
1/6/11 at 2:11pm
Well, I dont really care about 3D, and would prefer a set without 3D gumming up the works...something extra to break....with negative consequences for 2D PQ.
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