AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › LG HW300T LED 1280x800
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

LG HW300T LED 1280x800 - Page 5

post #121 of 695
Thanks for the in-depth review graafish. A few questions for you.

1) If you run the beamer without the dongle, and without using wi-fi mode to stream anything (i.e., just a direct feed from a blu-ray player or a computer via HDMI), does it still sound like a vacuum or hair blower? I ask this in an attempt to isolate the source of the heat as either being the CPU processing the video stream (streaming is very cpu-intensive) or if it is simply the design.

2) I agree though, the built in video player is ****** (even on the HX350t). If the file isn't in 16:9 format, it'll attempt to stretch and fill the screen. So essentially, shows like Inception which uses the wider screen format would look horrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graafish View Post

Hey all...

I've been playing with the LG HW300Y last weekend and i'm still not sure if i like it... or hate it.

First the pros:

Bright enough to get a nice picture in a light controlled room in eco mode.
Distance beamer -> wall is 210 cm (6.8 feet) and gives me a 150x85 cm picture (68 inch).
Projection is on a white painted wall.

The colours this little beamer produces... just wow.

Nice sharp high resolution picture, although not so for text. If you watch a lot of movies with subtitels you have to get used at the diamond shaped pixels.. text looked jagged, especially white text on a dark background, like subtitels. Personally i'm fine with it because video really looks that good, it's only a small compromise.

The build in media player is pretty good, plays almost anything you feed it. The only problem i had was with MKV that includes DTS audio.. you'll get video but no sound. But DTS audio is not part of the beamer specs so i can not complain.

Control freaks also gonna love this beamer, lots of settings to play with in the expert mode.

Stays pretty cool (but that's more then logical with two fast spinning noisy fans).

And now (my) cons:

Fan noise is NOT quiet as advertised, in eco mode is sounds like a hair blower and in standard & presentation mode it sounds like someone is vacuuming the room while i'm watching a movie.

Wifi (dongle) reception is a joke. I especially bought the DLNA verion of this beamer so i could mount it to the ceiling and then only needed a power cable. Videostreams are constantly buffering, where my laptop is having no problem at all with the same videostreams. Sadly the beamer only accepts a LG AN-WF100 Wi-Fi Dongle and if you google it you'll find a lot of bad reviews about it.

Aspect ratio is bugged.. this is for me the biggest dealbreaker!!. Video (16:9) when playing from USB has the correct aspect ratio, video height is 720 pixels with 40 pixels black on top and bottom... so this is okay. But playing video trough HDMI is getting stretched vertical to fit the native 800 pixel height. I tested this with test patterns on a HTPC, Boxee Box and Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray Player and they all gave the same results.. round becomes oval. None of the aspect ratio settings on both the LG HW300Y and video players could solve the wrong aspect ratio.

And last thing is about the refresh rate. You can feed almost any refresh rate to his beamer. I tried 23.976/24/25/30/50/60 and they all worked.. but i did not really see any difference. On my TV i can easily distinguish the different refresh rates... but on this beamer they all look the same. Like a light judder. Maybe refresh rates work different with beamers and i'm wrong... but video is not as smooth as on my TV.



I really hope some of this problems can be fixed with a new firmware.
If not i'm probably not going to keep this beamer.

Ooh and someone should correct the topic name of this thread and change 1200x800 to 1280x800
post #122 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonWolf View Post

1) If you run the beamer without the dongle, and without using wi-fi mode to stream anything (i.e., just a direct feed from a blu-ray player or a computer via HDMI), does it still sound like a vacuum or hair blower? I ask this in an attempt to isolate the source of the heat as either being the CPU processing the video stream (streaming is very cpu-intensive) or if it is simply the design.

Hey PoisonWolf,

The fans do not respond to heat levels, they have a fixed rotation speed for each of the three LED brightness modes. The only time the beamer automatically changes the fan speed is when you are in the beamer menu, it then temporary defaults to eco mode fan speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonWolf View Post

2) I agree though, the built in video player is ****** (even on the HX350t). If the file isn't in 16:9 format, it'll attempt to stretch and fill the screen. So essentially, shows like Inception which uses the wider screen format would look horrible.

I was talking about 16:9 video through HDMI not having the correct aspect ratio... playing it through USB was fine.

If they (or i) can fix the aspect ratio on the beamer i'll definitely going to keep it and DIY a cooling construction to make it quiet
post #123 of 695
"I was talking about 16:9 video through HDMI not having the correct aspect ratio... playing it through USB was fine."

You must have an incorrect setting. LG is not that dumb.
post #124 of 695
graafish,

About your aspect ratio issue, I'm inclined to think that it is likely an issue with the source, and not the PJ itself. Perhaps check your source to make sure that the correct settings are set there?

About the fan levels, that's interesting that it is fixed rotation speed. I ask this because on my HX350t, the rotation varies as a result of heat. For example, in eco-mode, on a hot day, you'll hear the dual fans rev up slowly for like 10 ~ 20 seconds, then they rev back down. I guess LG must have decided that HW300 would be hotter than usual and as such would require a constant strong airflow to keep the unit cooled? I remember MCAugusto mentioning at some point that the innards of this beamer was tightly packed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graafish View Post

Hey PoisonWolf,

The fans do not respond to heat levels, they have a fixed rotation speed for each of the three LED brightness modes. The only time the beamer automatically changes the fan speed is when you are in the beamer menu, it then temporary defaults to eco mode fan speed.



I was talking about 16:9 video through HDMI not having the correct aspect ratio... playing it through USB was fine.

If they (or i) can fix the aspect ratio on the beamer i'll definitely going to keep it and DIY a cooling construction to make it quiet
post #125 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonWolf View Post

About your aspect ratio issue, I'm inclined to think that it is likely an issue with the source, and not the PJ itself. Perhaps check your source to make sure that the correct settings are set there?

Source i use is the AVS HD 709 Calibration files from this site.. so that should not be the problem. Also tested it on three different media players.. a HTPC (NVidia), Boxee Box and the Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player and they all gave the same results. Doesn't matter what aspect ratio setting i use on the HW300Y or the connected media players, the video always gets stretched vertical to 800px.

When i have the time this evening i'll make some photo's to illustrate my problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

You must have an incorrect setting. LG is not that dumb.

LG is not that dumb, but neither am i... thanks for your support.
post #126 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by graafish View Post

Source i use is the AVS HD 709 Calibration files from this site.. so that should not be the problem. Also tested it on three different media players.. a HTPC (NVidia), Boxee Box and the Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player and they all gave the same results. Doesn't matter what aspect ratio setting i use on the HW300Y or the connected media players, the video always gets stretched vertical to 800px.

When i have the time this evening i'll make some photo's to illustrate my problem.



LG is not that dumb, but neither am i... thanks for your support.

If I'm understanding you correctly, it's not doing a clean pass-through for 720p?
post #127 of 695
Hi,

Grafish, I think your problem of ratio comes from your source. I've had the same problem when I bought my PK301. The "regulation of mine" (hope you understand) wasn't good so I've had to make a "shake up" of my source and then it was ok!!!!!!For the fans they make more noise than my two picos but it is ok. It's not noisy in eco and quiet in standard. I never use the presentation mode but it is noisy. For the Wifi I can't tell you I bought the HW300G.
If you don't want this projector anymore the H5360BD is very good, very bright, The 3D is great but it isn't a LED Projector.
post #128 of 695
Sorry I just come and read your last message. OK, let's wait for your photos.
post #129 of 695
Taking a few photo's from a projection is more/harder work then i thought, but here they are

The first photo shows playing video from USB with the correct aspect ratio.
Also included a lighter version of the photo to show the projection boundaries.. somehow the projector always projects a black border around the video. I've seen this also on photo's from other people.. are you seeing this also danna2509?






The next photo shows playing video from my Oppo Blu-ray player through HDMI with the wrong aspect ratio. Again also included a lighter version.
As you can see round is now oval.






The following photos show the main aspect ration settings on my Oppo Blu-ray player. As you can see both settings have no effect.






The next following photo's are the different LG HW300Y aspect ratio settings while playing video from the Oppo Blu-ray. As you can see the video always gets stretched vertical to 800px.














The next following photo's are the different Oppo Blu-ray resolution settings while playing video from the Oppo Blu-ray (duh Again as you can see the video always gets stretched vertical to 800px.
















And then there's also loads of video zoom/stretch options on the Oppo Blu-ray player.. but trust me, they all show the same vertical stretched video. So for all the photo's i kept it on 1:1 mapping.

Oh and like i mentioned before in a earlier post... this wrong aspect ratio thingy also happens with all my other media players.

This post is probably a photo overload.. but hope i made my problem bit more clear
post #130 of 695
Hmm, thanks for taking so much time to post those photos. If the problem persists across multiple media devices, that would indeed be worrisome.

Anyhow, about the black border around the video image, it's present in the HX350t. But I determined it's actually the focus-ring causing the border. If I'm not mistaken, you can just probably turn it clockwise or counterclockwise and you'll notice the border get thicker or thinner. Perhaps you can check if this is the case with yours?
post #131 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoisonWolf View Post

Hmm, thanks for taking so much time to post those photos. If the problem persists across multiple media devices, that would indeed be worrisome.

Anyhow, about the black border around the video image, it's present in the HX350t. But I determined it's actually the focus-ring causing the border. If I'm not mistaken, you can just probably turn it clockwise or counterclockwise and you'll notice the border get thicker or thinner. Perhaps you can check if this is the case with yours?

The black border is related to the DLP array and interaction with the light source illumination optics. The border is caused by pixels around the active image that is limited to show black, this border is called the Pond of mirrors (POM). This border may or may not be visable depending on the light source.

This message board reply is not under NDA, but proves that the POM exists

DMD POM border width
post #132 of 695
my lcos m2 has the border.
post #133 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by anomaly123 View Post

The black border is related to the DLP array and interaction with the light source illumination optics. The border is caused by pixels around the active image that is limited to show black, this border is called the Pond of mirrors (POM). This border may or may not be visable depending on the light source.

This message board reply is not under NDA, but proves that the POM exists

DMD POM border width

Holy flying saucers, where the hell have you been all this while mate!? Thank you so much for that info! Maybe it must have been me when I noticed the border get bigger and smaller!

One more new term learned today. Thanks anomaly. =)
post #134 of 695
graafish >>> THANKS ! Very illustrative photos clearly depicting the fact that the HW300T apparently always scales the resolution of any input image to 1280x800 pixels, including native 1280x720 HD signals, and that's unfortunate.
I imagine you also accessed the "Aspect Ratio" menu of the HW300T and tried using the options "16:9", "Set By Program" and "Just Scan", to no avail ?
Does the same apply when you input a native 4:3 image ? Is it also automatically scaled to 1280x800, without any side black bars. or does the user at least have the option of properly displaying 4:3 material with sidebars ?
If this applies to all input images could it be an intrinsic part of the design for the HD Pico chipset from TI, perhaps even due to the unusual shape of the pixels ?
....anomaly123, please chime in as well....
post #135 of 695
the mirrors are still the same shape(just a different grid pattern) and however they write the soft ware will determine if it scales or not.
LL
post #136 of 695
Grafish I've the black border too. It is the same thing with my 3 pico projector.
Thanks for all your photos, it's a great job. I don't know what to say about it, it's strange. I don't have the same hi-fi material, which is very good, but I think the ratio of my beamer is good with a BD source. I post videos of Braveheart and it's seems to be ok. So I don't know. And my english isn't good, I wait for some of my friends who will buy a HW and I will tell them about the problem of ratio you have. See you soon.
post #137 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

If this applies to all input images could it be an intrinsic part of the design for the HD Pico chipset from TI, perhaps even due to the unusual shape of the pixels ?
....anomaly123, please chime in as well....

The scaling problem is most likely caused by the TV controller rather than TI's DPP6401 processor. I'm not sure which TV controller the LG unit is using, but its probably the Mstar Saturn6 or Saturn7.

The reasoning is because a dedicated TV controller has much better quality input and output video processing and handling of multiple input sources. If up or down scaling had to be done, you would want it to be processed by more advanced hardware and algorithms. The input resolution to the TI processor would be constant (could be 1280x800, could be 1920x1200, or something else entirely, not important) regardless of what was input at the front.

The only video functions that I would use on the TI DPP6401 would be:

1. digital keystone correction (Lacking on most standard TV controllers)
2. dynamic black (TI's implementation of electronic irising)
3. brilliant color (TI's implementation of electronic CMS)
4. square to diamond formatter (TI's proprietary video processing)

Thats it. Everything else would be handled by the TV controller, and this includes the screen aspect ratio controls.
post #138 of 695
I had contact with the store about the aspect ratio bug.

They told me that there was nothing wrong with the beamer because the specs said the resolution is 1280x800 and that is was logical that the beamer mapped all video formats to this resolution. I told them that because of this the video gets stretched verticaly... they said "what's wrong with that?"... i said "it's ugly!"... then they said "well, that's a matter of taste"... seriously?

Now i have two days to get some information from LG before i have to send the beamer back.

And to get back on 24p refreshrate, i see no difference between 24hz and 60hz, they both have the same judder. Also swithing on/off the Real Cinema made no difference at all. So i guess everything is converted to 60hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

I imagine you also accessed the "Aspect Ratio" menu of the HW300T and tried using the options "16:9", "Set By Program" and "Just Scan", to no avail ?

I tried these options as well, they are somewhere in the screenshot overload

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Does the same apply when you input a native 4:3 image ? Is it also automatically scaled to 1280x800, without any side black bars. or does the user at least have the option of properly displaying 4:3 material with sidebars ?

4:3 image has the correct aspect ratio, the beamer adds sidebars.

danna2509:
Could you check if you have the correct aspect ratio when you feed the beamer a 16:9 format?
And with correct i mean the added 40 pixels black bars above and under the image.
Maybe do a test with the AVS HD 709 Calibration files from this forum if that is not to much work?
post #139 of 695
This sounds very troublesome. I wonder if this issue can be fixed with a firmware update? If it's not possible, I wonder how LG let this slip through the testing phase?

Quote:
Originally Posted by graafish View Post

I had contact with the store about the aspect ratio bug.

They told me that there was nothing wrong with the beamer because the specs said the resolution is 1280x800 and that is was logical that the beamer mapped all video formats to this resolution. I told them that because of this the video gets stretched verticaly... they said "what's wrong with that?"... i said "it's ugly!"... then they said "well, that's a matter of taste"... seriously?

Now i have two days to get some information from LG before i have to send the beamer back.

And to get back on 24p refreshrate, i see no difference between 24hz and 60hz, they both have the same judder. Also swithing on/off the Real Cinema made no difference at all. So i guess everything is converted to 60hz.



I tried these options as well, they are somewhere in the screenshot overload



4:3 image has the correct aspect ratio, the beamer adds sidebars.

danna2509:
Could you check if you have the correct aspect ratio when you feed the beamer a 16:9 format?
And with correct i mean the added 40 pixels black bars above and under the image.
Maybe do a test with the AVS HD 709 Calibration files from this forum if that is not to much work?
post #140 of 695
Welcome
I'm thinking of buying LG HW300Y or "Vivitek Qumi" if anyone had a chance to compare these projectors. I care mostly for watching movies and playing on ps3 and mobility. Do I understand that the wi-fi in the LG is done by usb dongle
post #141 of 695
[quote=graafish;20888708]I had contact with the store about the aspect ratio bug.

They told me that there was nothing wrong with the beamer because the specs said the resolution is 1280x800 and that is was logical that the beamer mapped all video formats to this resolution. I told them that because of this the video gets stretched verticaly... they said "what's wrong with that?"... i said "it's ugly!"... then they said "well, that's a matter of taste"... seriously?

what isn't, they obviously do not care. you could try calling Lg, but I guess it would lead you nowhere. cant believe LG would make such a bummer
post #142 of 695
Hi,

Grafish, if it's not to late, could you explain me how to do a test with the AVS HD 709 Calibration files. Because I really don't know how to do. Thanks.
post #143 of 695
@danna2509
You can download the calibration test i used here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496. Or perhaps you own a Disney Blu-ray? I think there’s a calibration test on all of them. Another quick check is the Paramount logo at the beginning of a movie, the stars should form a circle and not a oval. And do the check on the HDMI input, content from USB has the correct aspect ratio. And could you check your firmware version for me?

Good

Bad


I thought the aspect ratio bug was my biggest problem with this beamer. I now have two!

Everything is converted to 60Hz, maybe this is tolerable for some people as this gives you the standard 3:2 pulldown judder, but not for me because we Europeans always had nice smooth video because of the 4% PAL speedup And talking about PAL.. all my 25fps PAL content look terrible @60Hz. They invented 3:2 pulldown for 24fps@60hz, but there’s no such thing for 25fps@60hz so video (for me) is unwatchable. I would expect that all video players sold in Europe should have decent 50Hz output.

Come on LG it’s 2011.. give us real 23.976/24/25Hz output!

Does anyone with a earlier model LG LED beamer know if their beamer has real 23.976/24/25Hz output?

I still own the beamer because if i want to return the beamer i have to pay because the store thinks there’s nothing wrong with it and for having used it more than 30 minutes... even though it's a LED beamer. So now i'm trying to get some info from LG about the HW300Y aspect ratio and refresh rate specifications. Getting to talk someone about my problems is not that easy as the HW300Y is not officially sold here in the Netherlands. But if i'm lucky someone from LG Benelux with connections to LG Korea is giving me a call tomorrow... to be continued.
post #144 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by graafish View Post

@danna2509
Everything is converted to 60Hz, maybe this is tolerable for some people as this gives you the standard 3:2 pulldown judder, but not for me because we Europeans always had nice smooth video because of the 4% PAL speedup And talking about PAL.. all my 25fps PAL content look terrible @60Hz. They invented 3:2 pulldown for 24fps@60hz, but there's no such thing for 25fps@60hz so video (for me) is unwatchable. I would expect that all video players sold in Europe should have decent 50Hz output.

Graafish -
I dont' understand very well this jutter problem, does it happen with all content?

I'm also in Europe (Spain) and will receive the beamer soon, so I am worried about this.
I will use the projector mainly for PC, XBOX and downloaded movies, so maybe this content doesn't apply??

Please let us know what they tell you about it.
post #145 of 695
I just purchased the LG HW300G and I can confirm the issue with the aspect ratio does occur. All HDMI input on standard resolutions(1080p,720p etc) is stretched vertically to 1280x800, a 16:10 ratio. The projector aspect ratio settings appear to do very little.

The only way I could make it display correctly was to use a non standard resolution over HDMI, something thats possible with my PC's Nvidia card. Outputting 1280X800 from my PC displays the correct aspect ratio.
post #146 of 695
I hope the stretching issue is fixable through a firmware update otherwise this is a big letdown.

What the heck LG?

Also, if anyone who has the projector already would post some videos, thanks!
post #147 of 695
@Rossy1234
Good to know that this problem is now confirmed by others.
Could you also check if you have real 23.976/24/25Hz output?
Still haven't heard anything back from LG.

In the HW300Y i have the option to check for new firmware updates and install them.
Do you have an option on the HW300G to update the firmware from USB?

@jose6
Do a search on judder on AVSforum... there's loads of information on that topic.
Sadly, yes it happened on all the content i tried
Downloaded movies are most of the time 23.976Hz and will be converted to 60Hz with 3:2 pulldown.
If you never had a capable 24p display you probably used to this kind of judder.
post #148 of 695
surly they would have implemented those features, ore addressed those limitations if they where available in the hardware. wounder why I haven't noticed these issues, or why no one have mentioned them.
post #149 of 695
graafish:
I cannot find an option to update the firmware. The manual actaully says(mine is the hw300g):
Updating theProjector Firmware
This function is for the HW300Y/
HW301Y only.

I don't know about refresh rate, it appears to me to only do frequencies around 60Hz.

I'm thinking I should have bought the vivitek qumi instead now.
post #150 of 695
Quote:
Originally Posted by graafish View Post
Sadly, yes it happened on all the content i tried
Downloaded movies are most of the time 23.976Hz and will be converted to 60Hz with 3:2 pulldown.
Thanks Graafish. This is very disappointing, I've cancelled now my pre-order.

I think for the moment I'm not going to buy any, I was thinking about buying the qumi but it has focus problems and is much more expensive here in Spain than in the US.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › LG HW300T LED 1280x800