DTS Neo.X - Page 13

I'm gonna have to try that. With my setup I've been using strictly Neo:X. 9.2 setup with heights and rears, no wides. But I am looking for more of theater like cinematic experience. I hadn't really messed with any of the THX modes but I'll give it a shot.

Yea, I can't tell you how many times that I have attempted to stray from it to give these other sound schemes a shot. Each scheme seems to have their strengths,but for the most well rounded and natural movie theater sound, I ultimately go back to Thx and now Thx with PlIIz.

I don't see the issue... Be the first with door-mount speakers! You can even adjust the width by opening the door to a degree...

If I thought the wife would not have a canniption, I would do it! I was looking over it again critically, due to what sdurani (and others) have said about the angles. He is correct in that the width is not the issue, but that it is the width combined with using the room that is the issue.

I can put the left speaker next to the door, forward a bit, but then the other speaker needs to go behind the TV. If I put the right speaker to the rear of the room so it clears the TV, the left speaker will sit on the door.


Anyone know how low or high side surrounds should be?

 

2 to 3 feet above ear height is the usual recommendation.

Ooops...meant front wides! lol

Anyone know how high front wides should be?

Ideally the tweeters on the wides should be at the same height as the tweeters on your front speakers.

I've seen a couple of net postings that indicate the audio on the Step Up Revolution (3D Blu-ray Combo) release from Lionsgate is listed as:

I'm wondering if I should read anything beyond marketing hype into the 11.1 Neo: X Playback detail.

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Forget DTS NeoX this is what I want Multi-Dimensional Audio (MDA)

In summary : Multi-Dimensional Audio (MDA)

An Innovative Approach to Audio Creation, Distribution and Consumption

MDA is the first true conceptual leap in the art and science of audio reproduction in the hundred year history of recorded audio. The possibilities are limitless.

From its earliest beginnings, the science of audio recording and reproduction has been based on channels. Mono was one channel, stereo two and surround sound five or more. This model has served well for over one hundred years but, given today’s available technology and our current understanding of how people hear, the opportunity presents itself to take audio to an entirely different level.

Introducing Objects
In the real world, sound sources emit from objects in three dimensional space and the sound that we perceive does not only come from the originating source. What we hear is a combination of the direct sound from the source and reflections from the environment. Further, real sound is not confined to specific source positions or locations as it is with channel based audio reproduction systems.

The basic concept of Multi-Dimensional Audio, or MDA, is to represent sound sources as objects in space just as they are in the real world, without regard to the number of channels or speaker locations. Once this level of abstraction is reached, a wealth of opportunities become available to greatly enhance every aspect of the audio ecosystem. MDA and its advantageous effects on audio content creation, distribution and consumption is the subject of this paper.

http://www.srslabs.com/landing.aspx?id=2459

http://www.highdefdigest.com/blog/srs-labs-mda-audio/

http://technewspedia.com/3d-audio-alliance-3daa-and-multi-dimensional-audio-mda-audio-accelerated-gpu/

and now we are talking http://www.3daa.org/ I can't wait to see this implemented has any one heard a demo?

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2012/05/16/3d-audio-update-srs

http://www.3dfocus.co.uk/3d-news-2/dts-and-srs-to-launch-3d-audio-late-next-year/9551
Edited by wse - 10/2/12 at 9:23pm

^^
+1

I've also read about MDA earlier this summer & I think it's the game-changer in surround processing. It's not tied to a specific number of speakers or their locations. The technique described reminds me of the sound cards based on the Aureal chipset in the late 90's & early 2000's before Creative bought them out & shut them down It was superior to Creative's Live which was reverb-ambience processing instead of algorithms for 3D sound location.

SRS is now owned by DTS so DTS can either develop it or bury it. I sincerely hope it's the former, since it just makes sense. We could forget about heights, wides, maybe even rears and still have 3 dimensional positioning of sound not bound by putting more & more speakers all over the room. IF some companies are seriously entertaining creating a 22 channel format, MDA should be the logical, common sense alternative.

Isn't this what the Sherwood Newcastle 972 is supposed to do?

Nope

The above sets up a false straw man to knock down with MDA, which isn't to say it's not a great leap forward; multiple microphones capture reflections, and channels are not necessarily limited to a single source.

You need to hear a demo then you can see for yourself

^^
going back to the Aureal A3D sound card days, it was stunning to have sounds literally fly around your head from only 2 speakers - it was HRTF based algorithms - much the same I think as what SRS is working on. Not just surround but true positioning in all 3 dimensions and doesn't require a large number of speakers to do it. I expect the positioning becomes more fixed as you add speakers but it can work just with 2, especially headphones

this makes more sense than continuing to add past 7.1 for sliced & diced derived effects

wse, how does one find an SRS demo? I'd love to hear it.

In July 2012, 3D Focus (link) and others reported that "Having completed the acquisition of SRS Labs, DTS has confirmed the two companies will jointly bring multi-dimensional audio (MDA) or '3D audio' technology to market in 2013" . . . in which case we might expect to see some pre-production product demos at CES 2013 (and perhaps start making cost estimates of the changes|upgrades required to make a noticeable improvement to in-home playback performance). However, because an 'MDA home audio' soundtrack likely starts with the studio choosing to use the applicable theatrical audio mix technology, there is also the question of when there will be enough (movie) soundtracks so authored such that the 'serious home theater aficionado' might feel the upgrade worthwhile.
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The 22.x(?) speaker config in use for the NHK-JEITA SHV TV exhibit at CEATEC Japan 2012 this week (apparently a DSP processing variation from the nominal Hamasaki 22.x layout required to compensate for use of a direct view display . . . and the missing ceiling!) looks like an excellent platform MDA might use to deliver a 'fully rendered' soundfield!


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From what I read in the latest Sound and Vision, Dolby's main focus is theater applications whereas DTS's is HT first when it comes to their new 3d audio formats.

Thanks for all the info and opinions, everyone. I'm new here. This thread is exactly what I've been looking for.

Jaime

Will next year's receivers potentially include this MDA surround technology? I want to upgrade to either a Denon AVR-4520CI or an Onkyo TX-NR3010, but would probably be willing to wait for the CES 2013 show in January.

It is apparent that conventional class AB receivers are too inefficient to be used with the Neo 11 channels.
They get hotter, nosier fan cooling, require more space around and with weak power supplies that cannot keep up. For instance a claimed 150W receiver effectively becomes 75watts.
Heat reduces component life or Mean-Time-Between-Failure (MTBF). The room requires extra cooling. Then you always worry about shutting it off as the beast gets so darn hot.

So what are the solutions? Pioneer class-D receivers and powered speakers

Not surprisingly in testing of the Pioneer against competing receivers, the Pioneers sounds louder with less strain.
At the moment, the main limitation is the Pioneer SC-65-67-68 DSP cannot generate height and width channels to the pre-outs simultaneously, as do the new Onkyo 3010 and 5010. Someone posted that Pioneer may upgrade the firmware to allow it. The SC-65 would then rate an outstanding best buy. Pioneer also includes combined Thx processing which several members indicate a preference:


There are many excellent powered/active speakers choices from the studio world. Most are bi-amped internally and accept unbalanced, XLR and 1/4 jack.


Note: I've updated this post to depict the small Sealed Box speakers the experts at SRS selected. When using 6+ speakers up front, you don't want more quantity of bass. You want less but more tuneful and articulate. I plugged my ports up on my FW speakers to increase the bass articulation. I did not follow the THX advice to set the speakers small (and filter out the "too much bass" which ported enclosures are known for.)
In summary the higher the count of ported speakers, the more ill-defined bass and skewed spectral-balance become.
Edited by HiFiFun - 10/9/12 at 8:30pm

Not true, my Onkyo 3010 does not get hot at all.

Can the new flagship Denon run height and width simultaneously? I know their previous models could.

There is no new flagship Denon. No successor in sight for the AVP or the 5308. A flagship is the very best a company can do without considering the budget.

If you mean the 4520? Yes that can do 11.2 simultaneously hence with height and width. It has 9 internal amps, so you need an extra stereo amp if you want al 11.

Yes. The 4520 that is being called Denon's new flagship model.

The era of 66+lbs flagship receiver has been looooong gone. Considering how weak/bad Japan's economy is right now, we probably won't see another one from the big six(Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, Sony, Onkyo)in the next 10 to 15 years.

I want to go with separates anyway myself for the new house build with HT. Already have the Emotiva XPR-5 and I hope their matching pre-pro (9.3 most likely) will be a worthy device when it surfaces next year. If not, I will take the Marantz AV8801. Both are round the 3K mark. With the XPR-5 (2K) it's about the same price as the Yamaha Z11. I need two or three more 2ch amps, but these can be more modest. In the long run, only the pre-pro has to be replaced every 5 years or so...

Also, don't be so fast to assume the Japanse folks have nothing up their sleeve for the next 1 1/2 decade. 4-5 years is a long time in that sector. I am also watching out for Dolby Atmos to be implemented in home surround... Not with 61.3, but why not 14.2 or so? Not a giant leap from 11.2 the Marantz will do.

61 A4 Atmos™14.pdf 83k .pdf file