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DTS Neo.X - Page 14

post #391 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

There is no new flagship Denon. No successor in sight for the AVP or the 5308. A flagship is the very best a company can do without considering the budget.
If you mean the 4520? Yes that can do 11.2 simultaneously hence with height and width. It has 9 internal amps, so you need an extra stereo amp if you want al 11.

The 4520 is the replacement for the 5308 and 4311. Since there wasn't much difference between their high end offerings, they consolidated them into a single receiver.

I disagree with your definition of flagship. Flagship indicates top of the line model. The 4520 is the current Denon flagship.
post #392 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

The 4520 is the replacement for the 5308 and 4311. Since there wasn't much difference between their high end offerings, they consolidated them into a single receiver.
I disagree with your definition of flagship. Flagship indicates top of the line model. The 4520 is the current Denon flagship.
Honey, I shrunk the flagship!

LOL
Hope you can take a joke...

BTW, can't you still buy the AVP and the AVC? Because the AVC doesn't have a FM tuner, this doesn't disqualify it...

http://www.denon.co.uk/uk/Product/Pages/Product-Detail.aspx?Catid=HomeTheatre&SubId=AVAmplifiers&ProductId=AVCA1HDA
post #393 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post

Considering how weak/bad Japan's economy is right now, we probably won't see another one from the big six(Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, Marantz, Sony, Onkyo)in the next 10 to 15 years.

Is it their economy that matters?

I'd think the U.S. market for their products dwarfs theirs.
post #394 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Not true, my Onkyo 3010 does not get hot at all.
Here is a second independent observation that the new 3010 runs cooler than previous easy-bake ovens.rolleyes.gif
This is actually goods news. Further the 3010/5010 outputs considerable more power than the new Denon 4520 even though they have similar power ratings:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430358/done-with-denon-suggestions-needed-please/90#post_22477862

I hope Onkyo is on a roll with less heat and improved reliability.
Edited by HiFiFun - 10/9/12 at 8:18pm
post #395 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Is it their economy that matters?
I'd think the U.S. market for their products dwarfs theirs.

Of course it matters. Why would those companies putting all the money on the R&D team and produce something that almost no one would buy, while they are losing big money every year since 2007? Mind you that Onkyo and Sony's last "flagship" models came out 7 years ago, the most recent release was Pioneer's SC09, which came out 4 years ago. These monster receivers are things in the past now, like it or not.
post #396 of 1226
+ There is the matter that the US economy isn't actually in a healthy state and same for most of EU. So the three main markets for AVR's are in bad shape. But all in all, I think devices such as the Denon AVP will always have an audience. Folks who buy that (although being a small minority) are less affected by the crisis then the "normal" people...
post #397 of 1226
Do any of you have pictures of your 11.1 set up?
post #398 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFiFun View Post

Here is a second independent observation that the new 3010 runs cooler than previous easy-bake ovens.rolleyes.gif
This is actually goods news. Further the 3010/5010 outputs considerable more power than the new Denon 4520 even though they have similar power ratings:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430358/done-with-denon-suggestions-needed-please/90#post_22477862
I hope Onkyo is on a roll with less heat and improved reliability.

I do have a Noctua 120mm silent fan pulling air out the top of the receiver, but it never gets more than just warm. The 3010 also has two fans in it, but they have never turned on for me.
post #399 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Do any of you have pictures of your 11.1 set up?



This is what it looked like when I initially set it up. I've moved the wides a little since then.
post #400 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

I want to go with separates anyway myself for the new house build with HT. Already have the Emotiva XPR-5 and I hope their matching pre-pro (9.3 most likely) will be a worthy device when it surfaces next year. If not, I will take the Marantz AV8801. Both are round the 3K mark. With the XPR-5 (2K) it's about the same price as the Yamaha Z11. I need two or three more 2ch amps, but these can be more modest. In the long run, only the pre-pro has to be replaced every 5 years or so... Also, don't be so fast to assume the Japanse folks have nothing up their sleeve for the next 1 1/2 decade. 4-5 years is a long time in that sector. I am also watching out for Dolby Atmos to be implemented in home surround... Not with 61.3, but why not 14.2 or so? Not a giant leap from 11.2 the Marantz will do. 61 A4 Atmos™14.pdf 83k .pdf file

Yes I hope Dolby Reease it and I bet you Onkyo will be the first one to incorporate it as well along with DTS MDA Multi Dimensional Audio. I won't relace my SSP-800 until these technologies are incorporated in HT pre/pros end of 2013 according to DTS CEO. " SRS Labs Wins Prestigious TechAmerica Innovations Award for Multi-Dimensional Audio (MDA) Platform"

"
http://www.srslabs.com/landing.aspx?id=2459

http://www.prosoundnewseurope.com/newsletteraudio4broadcast-content/full/dts-plans-3d-audio-future-with-srs-acquisition

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120619005888/en/SRS-Labs-Wins-Prestigious-TechAmerica-Innovations-Award

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2012/05/16/3d-audio-update-srs

I am not sure Dolby is planning to bring Atmos to the home any time soon but fear of DTS MDA might change their minds.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/future-surround-sound?page=0,0
post #401 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Do any of you have pictures of your 11.1 set up?

im currently in the process of 11.1 (maybe 2) 'ing up HT got as far as the wides, the 5010 and the height should arrive soon smile.gif

cb075ba3970d423ba579530.jpg



8cd2892b675a40cc90b95de.jpg
post #402 of 1226
Nice job!
post #403 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I do have a Noctua 120mm silent fan pulling air out the top of the receiver, but it never gets more than just warm. The 3010 also has two fans in it, but they have never turned on for me.
A hometheaterhifi review from last July further confirms that Onkyo made a huge change is turning down the heat yet keeping the same or better sound quality:
"All of the prior Integra receivers I've reviewed generated significant heat from the top panel, to the point that on some products it was uncomfortable to leave a hand there. However, the DTR 50.3 ran significantly cooler than prior models. The top panel never felt more than slightly warm to the touch."

** This is major good news ***

I find it amazing the Onkyo mentality here at AVS which has no basis in logic, rhyme or reason. That is while Onkyo generated components excessive heat for years, there were hugely popular threads here. I spoke up but to no avail. Then all sorts of reliability issues cropped up, a process which took years to "sink-in". Now there is hardly anyone left, except those with overcooked cabinets. Even the "fan"boys here got "burnt-out" defending the impossible.
Obviously the root source was a very "powerful" VP at Onyko in Japan who melted, obviously about a year ago.

This situation should serve is an excellent example of normally intelligent consumers making unsound choices and going down the wrong path. All you will get is expensive headaches.
Looking back energy efficiency regulations for receivers (like for TV's and appliances) would have cleaned up this sorry, festering mess years ago.

Now with much less heat generated, the very latest Onkyo receiver reliability should improve.

No one will announce that "Onkyo Receivers Now Generate Much Less Heat!" because that would be a tactic admission that there was indeed a problem.

However should i buy a 3010? Maybe, but I'm concerned that Amazon has 5-6 returns. That and last years Easy-Bake-Ovens (3009, 5009) are 50% off.
Edited by HiFiFun - 10/12/12 at 3:51am
post #404 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

I've seen a couple of net postings that indicate the audio on the Step Up Revolution (3D Blu-ray Combo) release from Lionsgate is listed as:
Quote:
Blu-ray Audio Status: 7.1 DTS HD Master Audio, 11.1 Neo: X Playback, Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital and English 2.0 Dolby Digital
I'm wondering if I should read anything beyond marketing hype into the 11.1 Neo: X Playback detail.

Responding to myself...

From this engadget com (link): It appears that The Expendables 2 Blu-ray (which ships November 20th) will be the first one with 11.1 channel DTS Neo:X audio (to be followed by Step Up Revolution, also from Lionsgate). From the lack of contrary details, this is presumably the long anticipated DTS-HDMA 7.1 Standard encode with 4 channel Heights-plus-Wides content near-discrete matrixed inside...?

A "Press Release" for The Expendables 2 includes the description: Blu-ray Audio Status: 11.1 NEO-X, 7.1 DTS HD-MA, Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital and English 2.0 Dolby Digital

I guess the next step would be for Dolby to start matrixing 'near discrete' height content for DPLIIz into TrueHD soundtracks...?! biggrin.gif
_
Edited by SoundChex - 10/13/12 at 11:45am
post #405 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Responding to myself...
From this engadget com (link): It appears that The Expendables 2 Blu-ray (which ships November 20th) will be the first one with 11.1 channel DTS Neo:X audio (to be followed by Step Up Revolution, also from Lionsgate). From the lack of contrary details, this is presumably the long anticipated DTS-HDMA 7.1 Standard encode with 4 channel Heights-plus-Wides content near-discrete matrixed inside...?
A "Press Release" for The Expendables 2 includes the description: Blu-ray Audio Status: 11.1 NEO-X, 7.1 DTS HD-MA, Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital and English 2.0 Dolby Digital
I guess the next step would be for Dolby to start matrixing 'near discrete' height content for DPLIIz into TrueHD soundtracks...?! biggrin.gif
_
Wonderfull stuff ; all thats needed is for the next onkyo to get auro3d decoding and all current bases [bd discs at least] are covered smile.gif Its fascinating the links between datasat [ex dts] ; dts ; barco cinema installations and the datasat RS20i. Its usual new codecs come from the cinema so how this will all pan out who knows ?
http://www.2l.no/e-book/2L090.pdf

http://www.auro-technologies.com/
post #406 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Wonderfull stuff ; all thats needed is for the next onkyo to get auro3d decoding and all current bases [bd discs at least] are covered smile.gif Its fascinating the links between datasat [ex dts] ; dts ; barco cinema installations and the datasat RS20i. Its usual new codecs come from the cinema so how this will all pan out who knows ?
http://www.2l.no/e-book/2L090.pdf
http://www.auro-technologies.com/

The DATASAT RS20i will supposedly gain both DTS Neo:X post-processing and Auro-3D decoding capabilities "in the near future", although it remains to be seen to what extent Auro-3D decoding plus AuroMatic upmixing and DTS Neo:X expansion might be applied sequentially-and-cumulatively...?


If we could "combine" the Auro-3D 10.1 speaker configuration . . .




. . . and the DTS Neo:X 11.1 speaker configuration . . .




. . . we might get the imm sound 14.1 channel configuration . . .



. . . if it were instead implemented with only one speaker per channel . . . rather than the arrays|clusters of 2|3|4 speakers per channel used in the example theatrical venue shown!


This was the minimum 'small theater' configuration imm sound recommended for object audio playback . . . before it became a 'wholly digested subsidiary' of Dolby [Atmos]...?!

Although my personal preference would be to substitute a Height Front Center speaker for the Top Center Overhead speaker...?! eek.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
_
Edited by SoundChex - 10/15/12 at 1:44pm
post #407 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

This was the minimum 'small theater' configuration imm sound recommended for object audio playback . . . before it became a 'wholly digested subsidiary' of Dolby [Atmos]...?!

Although my personal preference would be to substitute a Height Front Center speaker for the Top Center Overhead speaker...?! eek.gifcool.gifbiggrin.gif
Thats some nice mathematical deduction Soundchex smile.gif As long as object based codecs succeed [ and adaptive rendering ] I hope there is more " leeway" as to where the speakers are situated .for each situation . If I had the room the "voice of god" speaker would be my 2nd choice to a HFC too cool.gif Something like" the tuskegee airmen" with B24's at different altitudes - sound panning in different directions would be very nice ..
Quote:
Dolby Atmos enables adaptive rendering to ensure that the playback experience is as close as possible to the creator's original vision in any given environment, irrespective of the specific speaker configuration in the playback environment.
post #408 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Thats some nice mathematical deduction Soundchex smile.gif As long as object based codecs succeed [ and adaptive rendering ] I hope there is more " leeway" as to where the speakers are situated .for each situation . If I had the room the "voice of god" speaker would be my 2nd choice to a HFC too cool.gif Something like" the tuskegee airmen" with B24's at different altitudes - sound panning in different directions would be very nice ..

From a 4/12/2009 techradar com interview with DTS about Neo:X, "DTS interview: 11.1 setups, Blu-ray and speaking to Spielberg" (link):
Quote:
"When we showed 11.1, we came up with a concept called 'Neo:X' – where 'X' could be any number within reason. 'X' for CES [2009] was 11. [. . . ] It could be 11, it could be 9, it could be 13, it could be 366. The Master Audio algorithm is very expandable."

Chip speed increases since 2009 probably mean that (say) DTS Neo:X 14.1 would be quite feasible today.

So it would likely be at least conceptually straightforward to have a processor decode an Auro-3D 9.1 soundtrack (link) and subsequently apply DTS Neo:X 14.1 post-processing expansion...?! biggrin.gif
_
Edited by SoundChex - 10/16/12 at 11:20am
post #409 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

So it would likely be at least conceptually straightforward to have a processor decode an Auro-3D 9.1 soundtrack (link) and subsequently apply DTS Neo:X 14.1 post-processing expansion...?! biggrin.gif
Please stop - your doing my head in biggrin.gif May have to switch to active speakers ; no room for all the power amps eek.gif
post #410 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Please stop - your doing my head in biggrin.gif May have to switch to active speakers ; no room for all the power amps eek.gif

The NHK-JEITA 8K4K TV exhibit at CEATEC Japan 2012 last week appears intended to show the room geometry feasibility of including an SHV display plus 22.x speakers in an "average family living room" circa 2020. biggrin.gif

If the fictional family from that exhibit could find room for (say) two 12 x 50W power amp chassis (no doubt hidden behind the false wall) . . . then I'm sure you'll find room to include them in your own setup! cool.gif



Note that the 22.x(?) speaker config at the show is apparently a "DSP processing" variation from the nominal Hamasaki 22.x layout occasioned by the need to apply "Dialogue Lift" compensation consequent to use of a direct view display . . . and the missing ceiling! eek.gif
_
Edited by SoundChex - 10/16/12 at 11:47pm
post #411 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

The NHK-JEITA 8K4K TV exhibit at CEATEC Japan 2012 last week appears intended to show the room geometry feasibility of including an SHV display plus 22.x speakers in an "average family living room" circa 2020. biggrin.gif
If the fictional family from that exhibit could find room for (say) two 12 x 50W power amp chassis (no doubt hidden behind the false wall) . . . then I'm sure you'll find room to include them in your own setup! cool.gif


Note that the 22.x(?) speaker config at the show is apparently a "DSP processing" variation from the nominal Hamasaki 22.x layout occasioned by the need to apply "Dialogue Lift" compensation consequent to use of a direct view display . . . and the missing ceiling! eek.gif
_

Cool they look like pro line array speakers, if they are powered speakers you have no need for additional boxes smile.gif

For example using 22 Dynaudio DBM50 active desktop monitor featuring a 7.1” woofer and a 1.1” soft dome tweeter. Hand-built in Denmark.
http://dynaudioprofessional.com/
post #412 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Ok. Got all 11 speakers timbre matched and 2 subs from same family. 9 channels of external amplification. Now please just gimme an AVR with DTS NeoX and DSX 11.2 already.

+1
post #413 of 1226
Here you are:

Pioneer Elite SC-68
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-68

Onkyo flagship TX-NR5010 is 11.4 channel DTS Neo:X support with 11 pairs gold-plated speaker terminals and, nine internal amps. It will cost you $3,000 frown.gif

Integra DTR-70.4 supports 11.1 channel processing with DTS Neo:X by using an external amplifier for the extra channels.

Denon AVR-4520CI 9.2 channel receiver. The AVR-4520CI supports 11.2 Audyssey DSX and DTS NEO:X processing and can drive a full 11.2 channel system with the addition of a two channel external amplifier. The receiver also includes Audyssey MultEQ XT32 processing, 7 HDMI inputs, and three HDMI multi-zone outputs.

Cool report: http://cave.hometheaterhifi.com/profiles/blogs/2012-cedia-show-report-robert-kozel

I am looking just for a pre/pro with the same capability supposedly the Marantz 8001
post #414 of 1226
The Onkyo 3010 also has 11.2 Neo:X with DSX, etc. No need to go to the flagship Onkyo to get it.
post #415 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

The Onkyo 3010 also has 11.2 Neo:X with DSX, etc. No need to go to the flagship Onkyo to get it.

Yes they really understand that customers want features and up to date technology the TX-NR818 also get it smile.gif with 11.2 Multichannel Pre-Outs

"Three mind-blowing sound expansion systems are included—Audyssey DSX®, DTS Neo:X™, and Dolby® Pro Logic® IIz—assisted by Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction. " I am seriously considering this to replace my aging Integra RDA-7
post #416 of 1226
My comment was posted from way before smile.gif

Have my sights set on the Marantz or Onkyo Pre/Pro :P
post #417 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

If the fictional family from that exhibit could find room for (say) two 12 x 50W power amp chassis (no doubt hidden behind the false wall) . . . then I'm sure you'll find room to include them in your own setup! cool.gif


Note that the 22.x(?) speaker config at the show is apparently a "DSP processing" variation from the nominal Hamasaki 22.x layout occasioned by the need to apply "Dialogue Lift" compensation consequent to use of a direct view display . . . and the missing ceiling! eek.gif
_

Hmm ; your right ; I could squeeze some small form factor class d's and lose the '' dialogue lift ''dsp with an AT screen and hidden l/c/r speakers cool.gif
Whats the chance of projectors sprouting a few vertical drivers someday . Some current epsons have some ;just 90 degrees out of whack and not the best environment -scratch that thought wink.gif

Those active dynaudios wse mentioned look nice ... match my audience5 back surrounds smile.gif
post #418 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Yes they really understand that customers want features and up to date technology the TX-NR818 also get it smile.gif with 11.2 Multichannel Pre-Outs
"Three mind-blowing sound expansion systems are included—Audyssey DSX®, DTS Neo:X™, and Dolby® Pro Logic® IIz—assisted by Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction. " I am seriously considering this to replace my aging Integra RDA-7

Careful...I'm pretty sure the 818 does not have the signal processing to make all 11 channels active at the same time on the pre-outs. In fact, I'm not even sure it can do 9 channels at once.
post #419 of 1226
Quote:
Originally posted by Mcode

No...
MDA Software is still aways off, the content studios have not yet announced their confirmation...

Do we have contact with a mole from within that industry?wink.gif
post #420 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrennem View Post

Careful...I'm pretty sure the 818 does not have the signal processing to make all 11 channels active at the same time on the pre-outs. In fact, I'm not even sure it can do 9 channels at once.

The 818 cannot do 11 channels at once - only 9.
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