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DTS Neo.X - Page 3

post #61 of 1226
in what ways is the DTS NEO. X superior to the Dolby IIz and Audessey DSX ?
post #62 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

in what ways is the DTS NEO. X superior to the Dolby IIz

On paper, Neo:X has more output options: PLIIz has one 9.1 mode, Neo:X has three 9.1 modes and an 11.1 mode.

Quote:
and Audessey DSX ?

Neo:X (like PLIIz) does not synthesize new sounds--all the outputs are extracted from the source. DSX generates room reflections that were not present in the original recording.
post #63 of 1226
A high quality 1.0 setup beats a crappy 11.1 setup right?
post #64 of 1226
^^


Dolby & dts are planning 40 channels for 2012
Gotta keep us buying new gear
post #65 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

As I mentioned over 4 months ago..
DTS Neo.X will start to appear this Fall, the algorithm has been certified by the (2) largest audio DSP makers now it is up to the brands for inclusion. To date there are (4) brands and 7 products defined to include DTS Neo.X, due to ship in 2nd half of 2011.

Don't ask I cannot disclose the brands/models as we are under NDA..

Just my $0.02...

Can any do Neo with Dolby Volume ?

Thanks
post #66 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^ Dolby & dts are planning 40 channels for 2012 Gotta keep us buying new gear

The story behind the "X" in "Neo:X", excerpted from a small 'puff piece' interview with DTS about Neo:X on TechRadar.com:
Quote:
"When we showed 11.1, we came up with a concept called 'Neo:X' – where 'X' could be any number within reason. 'X' for CES [2009] was 11. [...] [11.1] was what we showed. It could be 11, it could be 9, it could be 13, it could be 366. The Master Audio algorithm is very expandable."

So it looks like DTS has already laid the groundwork for (expanded) DTS Neo:X to accommodate however many audio channels are chosen as the standard(s) for 4th Generation Optical Disk and the replacement for 1080p HDTV, in the 2020s.
post #67 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

>>It could be 11, it could be 9, it could be 13, it could be 366. The Master Audio algorithm is very expandable.<<

So it looks like DTS has already laid the groundwork for (expanded) DTS Neo:X to accommodate however many audio channels are chosen as the standard(s) for 4th Generation Optical Disk and the replacement for 1080p HDTV, in the 2020s.

The DTS spokesmodel is somewhat confusing two separate technologies. Master Audio is the lossless codec, while Neo:X is a means to downmix-upmix audio, a form of surround encode-decode like Neo:6 or Neural 7.1.

The advantage of Neo:X is that it can carry more encoded "channels" within a fixed payload like 5.1, but unlike HDMA it cannot do it losslessly. That may or may not matter, however, depending on how well it performs. TBD.
post #68 of 1226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by locomo View Post

Can any do Neo with Dolby Volume ?

Thanks

The present Dolby Volume implementations are up to 8 channels..

Just my $0.02...
post #69 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

The story behind the "X" in "Neo:X", excerpted from a small 'puff piece' interview with DTS about Neo:X on TechRadar.com:
So it looks like DTS has already laid the groundwork for (expanded) DTS Neo:X to accommodate however many audio channels are chosen as the standard(s) for 4th Generation Optical Disk and the replacement for 1080p HDTV, in the 2020s.

It looks like dts is planning a major assault on surround processing. They've already got more share of the BD hi-rez audio market. Why not go for the rest

Seriously, it looks like Neo X could be the wave of the future.
post #70 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

A high quality 1.0 setup beats a crappy 11.1 setup right?

Even a crappy 1.0 set-up will give me the most important aspects of music: rhythm, melody, emotion. Watching 'Toy Story 3' on an old TV with a tinny mono speaker will still have most people laughing and crying at the appropriate moments. I'm not going to laugh/cry harder by using more speakers or better speakers.

A high quality 1.0 set-up will let you hear greater fidelity, to whatever extent it is in the recording. But it can't do things that an 11.1 set-up (even a crappy one) can do: soundstage, imaging, spaciousness, directionality (front/back, left/right, up/down), etc. The best speaker in the world can't be in more than one location simultaneously.

Of course each of us has to decide where to strike the balance between speaker quality and quantity. One is not a substitute for the other. Do you spend your budget on 2 or 5 or 11 speakers? Each will result in a different presentation. I'm just glad modern gear lets us implement those various options.
post #71 of 1226
OK I am really hanging on to the last legs of my Denon 4810.

Can any insiders PM me if they know of any AVRs or pre/pro that can do
HDMI 1.4
Audyssey XT32 and SubEQ
DTS Neo:X
11.x channel pre out (XLR would be nice but not necessary).

coming out any time soon?
post #72 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

OK I am really hanging on to the last legs of my Denon 4810.

Can any insiders PM me if they know of any AVRs or pre/pro that can do
HDMI 1.4
Audyssey XT32 and SubEQ
DTS Neo:X
11.x channel pre out (XLR would be nice but not necessary).

coming out any time soon?


The next Onkyo 5509 would be the best bet... and if it was also Audyssey Pro ready, that would be an ultimate kind of beast.

Hugo
post #73 of 1226
Yeah, let's hope Onkyo doesn't stinge on the pre outs and give us 11.x this time around.
post #74 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzy View Post

Hi All,

Has anyone been able to compare DTS Neo:X & Audyssey DSX with both Front & Wides engaged & can pass some comments in the comparison between the two?

Bazzy!

I am quite interested in this as well!
post #75 of 1226
i cant wait to hear/demo DTS NEO X. I cant wait for the Onkyo 1009.
post #76 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Yes. And BD handles 7.1 already. What would Neo:X bring to the party?

total overkill..............useless
post #77 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

What would Neo:X bring to the party?

Hopefully, some hot chicks & some beer.
post #78 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetmeck View Post
total overkill..............useless
You heard it and was not impressed?
post #79 of 1226
Can anyone confirm that the 1009 will have DTS Neo:X, but only nine channels? This would be very disappointing as I thought the whole idea of Neo:X was 11.1. You would think at least an option for preouts and an external amp would be included for 11.1 channels. If not, which models will have 11.1 DTS Neo:X option?
Thanks.
post #80 of 1226
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve*MH View Post

Can anyone confirm that the 1009 will have DTS Neo:X, but only nine channels? This would be very disappointing as I thought the whole idea of Neo:X was 11.1. You would think at least an option for preouts and an external amp would be included for 11.1 channels. If not, which models will have 11.1 DTS Neo:X option?
Thanks.

The Onkyo 1009 will be 9.2 and included DTS.Neo.X, apparently it is Onkyo's opinion that 9.2 satisfies the market. Also the 9 channels of on-board amplifiers support 5.1 for the main room, and Zones II & III...

Just my $0.02...
post #81 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve*MH View Post

I thought the whole idea of Neo:X was 11.1

The whole idea of Neo:X is to introduce new surround processing from DTS that is improved over their current processing. The improvements will likely have more to do with quality (stability, steering) than quantity (number of channels), leveraging some of the technology that DTS inherited when they purchased Neural.

Number of channels (5, 7, 9, 11) will be determined by equipment manufacturers. DTS didn't use a specific number when naming their new processing, like we've seen in the past with Neo:6 and Logic7. While Neo:X currently tops out at 11 channels, they could probably extract more if they wanted to, as can most surround processing technologies.
post #82 of 1226
I'd love a NEO X pre-amp that provided for full bandwidth digital outs - 11.1 channels of AES3/SPDIF in other words.

I think though that any such processor (should it ever become available) will most likely only offer analogue outs.

I'd like to use my own stand alone DAC's.......I'm not interested in integrated amplification either. I'd like to use my own external amps thanks.
post #83 of 1226
How do you do volume normalization on multiple DACs?
post #84 of 1226
DTS just launched DTS Neo X. Now i know that similar technologies like Audessey DSX and Dolby IIz have been around for years and Yamaha has not added them to their AVRs probably because of their "Presence" technology.

Therefore, i wonder if the next line of Yamaha AVRs will have DTS Neo X. Does anyone know if they were gonna have the Neo X in Yamaha AVRs ?
post #85 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve*MH View Post

I thought the whole idea of Neo:X was 11.1.

The whole idea of Neo:X is to introduce new surround processing from DTS that is improved over their current processing. The improvements will likely have more to do with quality (stability, steering) than quantity (number of channels), leveraging some of the technology that DTS inherited when they purchased Neural.

Number of channels (5, 7, 9, 11) will be determined by equipment manufacturers. DTS didn't use a specific number when naming their new processing, like we've seen in the past with Neo:6 and Logic7. While Neo:X currently tops out at 11 channels, they could probably extract more if they wanted to, as can most surround processing technologies.

Don't forget, it's likely that more people will be stepping up to a DTS Neo:X AVR from a 5.1 speaker configuration than from a 7.1 setup. So it will be 'easier' to contemplate buying 4 new speakers for 9.1 Front-Height+Wide than 6 additional speakers...?!

Plus, this way, the CEMs get to take 'two bites':
  • (2011) "9.1 is the new 7.1/5.1''
    and...
  • (2013 ?) "11.1 is the new 9.1/7.1/5.1"
post #86 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

The next Onkyo 5509 would be the best bet... and if it was also Audyssey Pro ready, that would be an ultimate kind of beast.

Hugo

I think you are right there. Denon have said they are leaving the top tier AVR product range i.e 48XX, 58XX, AVPX (bad move IMO) which leaves Onkyo to have that market all to themselves.

So with all those features in a high end AVR/Pre the Upcoming Onkyo 5009 I am betting will be the only one around.
post #87 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

OK I am really hanging on to the last legs of my Denon 4810.

Can any insiders PM me if they know of any AVRs or pre/pro that can do
HDMI 1.4
Audyssey XT32 and SubEQ
DTS Neo:X
11.x channel pre out (XLR would be nice but not necessary).

coming out any time soon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

The next Onkyo 5509 would be the best bet... and if it was also Audyssey Pro ready, that would be an ultimate kind of beast.

Hugo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

I think you are right there. Denon have said they are leaving the top tier AVR product range i.e 48XX, 58XX, AVPX (bad move IMO) which leaves Onkyo to have that market all to themselves.

So with all those features in a high end AVR/Pre the Upcoming Onkyo 5009 I am betting will be the only one around.

Hi Guys,

It's likely that the Onkyo will be reasonably priced, but don't forget that Denon has announced that they plan to upgrade their flagship prepro. I'm pretty sure it will have most of the features Woof Woof lists. It seems that it will do 11.2 DSX, it remains to be seen whether they will also throw in DTS Neo:X. For competitive positioning I would guess that it will be included.

Larry
post #88 of 1226
Hi Larry,

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Guys,

It's likely that the Onkyo will be reasonably priced, but don't forget that Denon has announced that they plan to upgrade their flagship prepro. I'm pretty sure it will have most of the features Woof Woof lists. It seems that it will do 11.2 DSX, it remains to be seen whether they will also throw in DTS Neo:X. For competitive positioning I would guess that it will be included.

Larry

I'm copying bellow something I wrote elsewhere, but which is totally part of what is discussed here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

...

In my opinion the initial concept of DSX was never meant to be 11.2. The best example being what Chris has always said: DSX only adds W+H channels...

Meaning though that if a signal (which is the case in 99% of cases) is 5.1, DSX only knows to process 9.2 (W+H). And if one wants the "full glory" of 11.2, this can only be obtained through a hybrid configuration, incorporating DSX associated with DPL IIx or DTS Neo... An experience that I personnaly made (when I had an Denon A100) and that I didn't like.

So this new DTS Neo X is really innovative per se, as we are now offered for the first time, a complete 11.x processing... (And this is maybe why Onkyo limited its previous series to only 9.2 processing... But now with Neo X why not go further as this is a completely "integrated" (at least ?) 11 processing...).

Now somewhere here on AVS, Roger D. has stated that the approch/process of creating the W+H channels is different between DSX and DTS. I'm though very interested to hear this new product, as in my opinion (and experience) DSX 9.2 W+H gives a VERY impressing result (with the 5508), so let's see now what will be the DTS's added value with its full 11.2 processing.

Hugo

... so I don't see Denon not incorporating DTS Neo X... but then remains the problem of the previous very High End Denon amp having "only" 10 channels...

Have a nice WE,

Hugo
post #89 of 1226
Will there be movies with DTS NEO x in the near future ?

If movies come with DTS NEO X soundtrack then what will happen to Dolby IIz, Audessey DSX and Yamaha Presence...?

Will they become obsolete ?
post #90 of 1226
Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

Will there be movies with DTS NEO x in the near future ?

Movies, as in theaters, or on discs? And how near is near? While DTS is out of the content business, that does not mean they would not commission some sort of project to illustrate the capabilities of the encoding side of the equation. They already mixed some nice demo clips, for example. No reason a complete movie could not be done as they did with DTS-ES in the Gladiator remix.

Quote:


If movies come with DTS NEO X soundtrack then what will happen to Dolby IIz, Audessey DSX and Yamaha Presence...?

Will they become obsolete ?

No. They all sound different and there will always be plenty of regular content in need of upmixing/enhancement.
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