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Why does no one with cable box or Tivo able to record to dvd?

post #1 of 65
1/8/11 at 1:46pm
Thread Starter 
I have a number of friends and relatives with cable boxes with dvrs or Tivo.

All of them seemed to have forgotten that you might want to keep something on dvd, say, from television.

Now of course I do this all the time with my old Panasonic and somewhat newer Philips dvr/dvd recorder.

Now of course may not work with hi-def TV, but they also seem to be clueless about recording non-720p to dvd from their cable box.

Now I know you can do from a computer with a tuner card. But I am talking about a standalone set-up. Not a computer.

Aren't there outputs on the back of cable boxes and/or Tivos that you could route into inputs of a standalone dvd recorder?

I suspect, like many of you, I refuse to pay the cable co. or Tivo for the monthly privilege of recording to dvr.

It seems that none of them have looked at the back of these units. What is back there? I don't have one. I have called the cable co and they seemed to be clueless? "What? Move something from the box to a dvd recorder? Who would want to do that?"

Well, we used to do it with VCR and some of us still do it with our dvr-dvd recorders. So what's the deal with cable boxes and Tivo? Can they record but people don't know how? Or are there no outputs that can be used to record in a standalone recorder?

One last question. Again I use 2 dvr/dvd recorders. I have one spare unopened because I am worried that this market that I think should be bigger may completely go away in the US. Is Magnavox/Funai the only one that sells in the US? (Not counting going outside of the US.)

I probably would know these things if I read here constantly but I come back every so often to try to catch up on any news.

I still can't believe that Panasonic can't market a dvr/dvd recorder here in the US. And where are the standalone blu-ray recorders? Has tech crawled to a halt. Maybe I am out of it. It wouldn't be the first time.
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post #2 of 65
1/8/11 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycej@truman.ed View Post

...Aren't there outputs on the back of cable boxes and/or Tivos that you could route into inputs of a standalone dvd recorder?

...It seems that none of them have looked at the back of these units. What is back there? I don't have one. I have called the cable co and they seemed to be clueless? "What? Move something from the box to a dvd recorder? Who would want to do that?"

Well, we used to do it with VCR and some of us still do it with our dvr-dvd recorders. So what's the deal with cable boxes and Tivo? Can they record but people don't know how? Or are there no outputs that can be used to record in a standalone recorder?

One last question. Again I use 2 dvr/dvd recorders. I have one spare unopened because I am worried that this market that I think should be bigger may completely go away in the US. Is Magnavox/Funai the only one that sells in the US?

...I probably would know these things if I read here constantly but I come back every so often to try to catch up on any news.

I still can't believe that Panasonic can't market a dvr/dvd recorder here in the US...

The first attachment depicts the rear panel of a Comcast Motorola DCX3200 HD converter box. The second attachment shows the rear panel of of a typical Magnavox HDD/DVD recorder. The third attachment shows the rear panel of a typical Panasonic EZ series VHS/DVD recorder. The fourth attachment shows the rear panel of a typical Panasonic EA series DVD recorder.

Panasonic still makes DVD recorders but their current EZ series has been plagued with bugs, design flaws and reliability issues. I have many Panasonics of the ES, EZ, EH and EA series.

I also have many Funai manufactured recorders. The best of these are the Magnavox HDD/DVD models sold by walmart.com. I set up my new Magnavox 515 about a week ago, as seen in the fifth photo.
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post #3 of 65
1/8/11 at 4:39pm
I had a Comcast Motorola cable box and 2 different HD DVRs and they all had SD outputs which you could record from. The problem with most cable boxes & DVRs is that HD programs are output in letterbox format from these SD outputs. I currently have a Dish HD DVR which has a composite video output which does output full screen wide screen SD content in order to send to a stand alone DVD recorder.
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post #4 of 65
1/8/11 at 5:31pm
If you're not using the boxes component output(and the composite/S-video output is letterboxed) something like this will convert the WS component to WS S-video/composite. It will also remove any CP that may be present on PPV or Pay channels.
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post #5 of 65
1/8/11 at 9:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

If you're not using the boxes component output(and the composite/S-video output is letterboxed) something like this will convert the WS component to WS S-video/composite. It will also remove any CP that may be present on PPV or Pay channels.

You know JJEFF, this is the second time I've seen you say this converter removes copy protection, and still don't see any mention of that on the webpage you link to.

Could you please tell us why you make this claim?
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post #6 of 65
1/8/11 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycej@truman.ed View Post

I have a number of friends and relatives with cable boxes with dvrs or Tivo.

All of them seemed to have forgotten that you might want to keep something on dvd, say, from television.

Well, most stuff on TV anymore is released on DVD a few months after, so many if they find a show to be a keeper, they just wait for that, and they get a pristine copy with no network bugs, no commercials, and sometimes with extra features. The archiving mentality seems to have been lost on the majority of consumers, as you have seen from your small sampling.

Most people are content to watch something once and delete it, something DVRs and TiVo excel at.

Quote:


Aren't there outputs on the back of cable boxes and/or Tivos that you could route into inputs of a standalone dvd recorder?

Sure. DVRs, cable boxes, and TiVo all have to output to a TV, and a recorder will see the same signal a TV will. But most DVD recorder inputs top out at s-video, so the resolution is limited.

Quote:


One last question. Again I use 2 dvr/dvd recorders. I have one spare unopened because I am worried that this market that I think should be bigger may completely go away in the US. Is Magnavox/Funai the only one that sells in the US? (Not counting going outside of the US.)

Magnavox makes the only hard drive equipped US unit. Panasonic, as mentioned, still makes some hard drive-less units. None of the other US brands are really worth purchasing.

Quote:


I still can't believe that Panasonic can't market a dvr/dvd recorder here in the US. And where are the standalone blu-ray recorders? Has tech crawled to a halt. Maybe I am out of it. It wouldn't be the first time.

The tech is still alive and well, just not in the US. Japan and Australia market Blu-ray recorders, and hard drive DVD recorders are used in Europe as the DVR.

But in the US, what can I say, DVD recording didn't work quite like a VCR, DVRs came along to satisfy those who want to record, watch once, and delete, and not enough really want to archive. DVD recorders were tried, but they ultimately failed. No company wants to risk Blu-ray recorders because they watched DVD recorders rot on store shelves.
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post #7 of 65
1/8/11 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

You know JJEFF, this is the second time I've seen you say this converter removes copy protection, and still don't see any mention of that on the webpage you link to.

Could you please tell us why you make this claim?

Well, I can tell you why I make this claim... I have one connected to the component output of my Oppo DVD player, inputting S-Vid to my Pio DVDR, and I can record any copy protected DVD I've tried. I mentioned this in another thread in this forum. I'm sure Monoprice would not advertise that they strip CPRM, or they might get sued, like Sima.
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post #8 of 65
1/9/11 at 5:20am
Ditto what Kjbawc said
Shhhhh
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post #9 of 65
1/9/11 at 9:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

You know JJEFF, this is the second time I've seen you say this converter removes copy protection, and still don't see any mention of that on the webpage you link to.

Could you please tell us why you make this claim?

I have The mono price component to S-video converter and it does remove/ not pass CP & DRM info to my DVD recorder.
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post #10 of 65
1/10/11 at 3:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc View Post
Well, I can tell you why I make this claim... I have one connected to the component output of my Oppo DVD player, inputting S-Vid to my Pio DVDR, and I can record any copy protected DVD I've tried. I mentioned this in another thread in this forum. I'm sure Monoprice would not advertise that they strip CPRM, or they might get sued, like Sima.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrockstar View Post
I have The mono price component to S-video converter and it does remove/ not pass CP & DRM info to my DVD recorder.
Okay. I'm sold.

Both cable box and DVD? Wonder if it'd work on a satellite box's output too?
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post #11 of 65
1/10/11 at 5:04am
It should, not to mention BR.....Oops I mentioned it didn't I
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post #12 of 65
1/11/11 at 2:09pm
jjeff, is the recording using that converter, that much superior to just using a svid to svid copy (ignoring CP)?
AND
Is the copy, using the converter, WS or still letterboxed? And is the quality that much better than a letterboxed copy zoomed when watching?
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post #13 of 65
1/11/11 at 3:24pm
S-vid to S-vid is quite a bit better not using the converter. The converter not only slightly raises the black level(blacks aren't a total black) but it also lacks the resolution of true S-video.
The converter passes on whatever the source is. That is if the source is wide screen it stays wide screen, if it's letterboxed it stays letterboxed.
As to your last question, I would say even though I have complaints about the PQ of the MP converter I believe if a person had to chose between having to zoom a picture or using the converter, I'd take the converter. While not perfect it's better than having to Zoom.
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post #14 of 65
1/11/11 at 3:50pm
Thanks. I've noticed on the Star video magic that it (appears to my eyes) seems to give a nicer pic using the composite in and out vs. the svid in and out. Of course the picture is letterboxed but doesn't appear to be of much lower quality than the original.

Was just wondering if there was that much to gain by going to a component to s video adapter.

DVD quality on a 65" tv is marginal at best.
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post #15 of 65
1/11/11 at 4:00pm
In your case, if you're recording a letterboxed source through composite, I'd expect you to see a noticeable improvement using the MP converter from WS component to either S-video or component. Truthfully I didn't see a big improvement using the S-video output of the MP converter vs it's composite output. Id's say it's S-video output was basically composite quality but again it's WS which makes a big + difference IMO.
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post #16 of 65
1/11/11 at 6:08pm
How does this box look when converting sports programming? I have one of those Samsung stand-alone tuners, and the SVideo is fine for most shows when recorded onto my EH75v, but as the camera follows the action, the lines on the court or field have these jaggies that "slide around", which are so distracting as to render the recording unwatchable.

Would one of these converters make the lines look smoother? Hopefully without losing sharpness.
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post #17 of 65
1/11/11 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pacofortacos View Post
Thanks. I've noticed on the Star video magic that it (appears to my eyes) seems to give a nicer pic using the composite in and out vs. the svid in and out. Of course the picture is letterboxed but doesn't appear to be of much lower quality than the original.

Was just wondering if there was that much to gain by going to a component to s video adapter.

DVD quality on a 65" tv is marginal at best.
Just to be certain you are clear on it, the Monoprice converter has only component (RGB) inputs, but a choice of composite, or S-Video output. Besides removing copy protection, the main reason for using this converter is to make anamorphic DVDs from HD channels, that don't have to be zoomed. Most cable and satellite systems do NOT output a (squeezed) anamorphic picture on S-Video, but will on component. But, unless you can use your DVDR to do it, the anamorphic 'flag' is not set, so you will need to manually select 'wide' on your TV for playback.

I have a 56" DLP TV, and I certainly don't find DVD quality to be "marginal at best." Commercial anamorphic DVDs are very sharp, almost as good as the watered down HD we get on Comcast these days. The anamorphic DVDs I make with the converter aren't quite that good, but they are definitely better than marginal.
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post #18 of 65
1/12/11 at 6:15am
At marginal at best was a bit much LOL, they aren't that bad
Still getting used to this Mitsu DLP on SD material, my Toshiba DLP 56" had a much nicer SD picture.

I have a panasonic ES10 that I use. I haven't ever really found a way to record widescreen material that would playback widescreen on a regular DVD player. It is as if the flag isn't set, the material always comes up in the 4:3 form. So I have been just letterboxing the 16:9 material, then zoom on the playback to get the correct aspect ratio of the material.
This actually has worked well, since up to recently I used a 4:3 set for the bedroom.

So I wasn't too concerned with that aspect UNLESS there is a way to get it to set the flag. WILL the adapter set the flag on the recording?

I was really wondering if using the component to svid adapter actually produced a cleaner picture than currently. Currently I don't notice much of a picture quality drop from the source to record - assuming both DVD quality.
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post #19 of 65
1/12/11 at 6:27am
I seriously doubt if any component to S-Video converter does anything about setting the WSS flag. Thi is because in order to do that, the CGMS code line would have to be manipulated and these converters are not that sofisticated. The Widecreeen Signaling is embeded in the Copy Generation Management System line of video. Even with this, not all DVD recorders respond to the WSS flag.
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post #20 of 65
1/15/11 at 9:56pm
Paco, I agree with LD, no converter will set the flag. A few DVDRs allow you to set the flag. You can easily make anamorphic widescreen DVDs from HD channels, using the converter. When played back on a HD TV, you need to manually select the 'wide' screen size, so they don't display as squeezed 4x3. The only problem is, if you want to play them back on a 4x3 TV, you can't show them as letterboxed, they will be squeezed 4x3, which I wouldn't want to watch.
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post #21 of 65
1/16/11 at 3:30pm
Yeah, that is why I use the letterbox and just zoom it instead of the other way.
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post #22 of 65
1/22/11 at 10:09pm
Is there any way to order the Lenkeng version from here in the States?
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post #23 of 65
1/22/11 at 11:25pm
Order it from Monoprice, not Lenkeng. Monoprice will get it to you much faster, and you can easily return it, if you don't like it. Besides, the version Lenkeng makes for Monoprice seems to be a bit better than the one they sell themselves.
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post #24 of 65
1/30/11 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjbawc View Post

Paco, I agree with LD, no converter will set the flag. A few DVDRs allow you to set the flag. You can easily make anamorphic widescreen DVDs from HD channels, using the converter. When played back on a HD TV, you need to manually select the 'wide' screen size, so they don't display as squeezed 4x3. The only problem is, if you want to play them back on a 4x3 TV, you can't show them as letterboxed, they will be squeezed 4x3, which I wouldn't want to watch.

I still do the "old fashioned" fix:

Record the HD widescreen program on a DVD-RW.

Copy to my Computer (Mac in my case).

Use software to set the flag as widescreen on the computer copy (myDVDedit on the Mac).

Burn back to a DVD-R.

Reuse the DVD-RW...
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post #25 of 65
1/31/11 at 10:10am
This is probably a step backward, but...

My local cable provider "transmits" most HD channels also in an analogue version, e.g., TCM appears in both HD and SD on channels 701 and 501, respectively; CNN's SD is on channel 44 and its HD feed on 657; and the HBO channels are replicated on SD and HD.

Using my Panny EH55, my compromise is to use and view the HD channels for something of a transitory nature, e.g., news, sports, entertainment programs (I save all these as HD on the 3200's hard drive and watch them when the opportunity presents--using the DVDR for the original purpose of my old VCRs, time-shifting).

As a collector of classic films, for those I want to add to and keep in my DVD collection, I record these from the SD channels to my EH55's hard drive, thereby keeping whatever aspect ratio in which they are broadcast, and copy these to DVD for my library. For me, there is more watchably effective quality in an SD broadcast of, say, 1935's "Mutiny on the Bounty" or 1953's "African Queen", than in a "squeezed" recording I've made from the HD end of the same broadcast.
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post #26 of 65
1/31/11 at 10:51am
If you had Dish or a component to s-video converter, the HD versions wouldn't be squeezed or postage stamped. Same goes for DirecTV, but they don't have HD versions of the classic movie channels (AMC, TCM, etc.). The problem with cable is that most cable boxes don't output widescreen on their s-video or composite outputs. But satellite receivers do. As a collector, changing providers is something to seriously consider if you want quality recordings.
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post #27 of 65
1/31/11 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

...As a collector, changing providers is something to seriously consider if you want quality recordings.

Here's a novel approach:

As a collector: purchase the films on DVD!

Warner Bros. now even has an "on-demand" system of burning DVDs for collectors of many titles in their library (which includes the classic MGM library):

http://www.wbshop.com/

and then click on the Warner Archive link.

They have opened up many titles that under the old system of DVD distribution would just not have justified release...
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post #28 of 65
1/31/11 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelLAX View Post

I still do the "old fashioned" fix:

Record the HD widescreen program on a DVD-RW.

Copy to my Computer (Mac in my case).

Use software to set the flag as widescreen on the computer copy (myDVDedit on the Mac).

Burn back to a DVD-R.

Reuse the DVD-RW...

Granted, this is really the only possible workaround, but its frigging tedious, totally wasteful, and should not be necessary. There is no earthly logical reason why every DVD recorder ever made does not automatically insert the damned flag: responding to the flag has been a requirement of every DVD player ever made, so what exactly was their asinine reasoning for not having it in recorders? I seriously doubt its cost: these mfrs piss more money and effort away on hare-brained anti-piracy and DRM compliance than they do any other aspect of these machines, setting the flag could hardly cost more than a fraction of that nonsense.

The practice of burning "transitional" DVD+RWs, copying them to a computer, adding the flag, burning new copies on DVD-R, and erasing the RWs is not for everyone, particularly laptop owners or Mac users who are stuck with flimsy, fragile slot load optical drives. One thing you really do not want to do is waste precious lifespan of these slot loaders on endless rounds of copying and recopying just to add the stupid flag. Not to mention constant burning of temporary RW discs is not great for the recorder burner, which is even harder/more expensive to replace than the slot-load drives. Anyone doing this flag-set-runaround frequently should consider buying an external USB2 burner dedicated to routine copying tasks (unless you have a standard big-box PC with easily-replaced cheap SATA burners).
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post #29 of 65
1/31/11 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

...Anyone doing this flag-set-runaround frequently should consider buying an external USB2 burner dedicated to routine copying tasks (unless you have a standard big-box PC with easily-replaced cheap SATA burners).

Yes: I agree that it is tedious!!!

I purchased an external $39 USB burner which also gave me D/L support to my older iMac G5 desktop. This burner easily moves around to my other non-DVD burning Mac Mini's, too.

Most of the time I do not do the 2nd burn; as I transcode the flag corrected DVD copy on my computer to H.264 for viewing my library on my AppleTV.
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post #30 of 65
2/1/11 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelLAX View Post

Here's a novel approach... purchase the films on DVD!

LOL

No expensive converters to buy, no countless hours editing out commercials and recording in real time, no bugs in the corner or pop-up ads along the bottom, no commentary or extras, no plain vanilla 2 channel audio. Who'd want to give all that up?
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