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Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - Page 6

post #151 of 275
I think I can sum this game up.

1. Go to towns, random people will talk to you and ask you to get something or kill someone.
2. Travel to underground hideout/tunnels and kill undead or bandits to get something or kill someone.
3. Go back to town and get reward.
4. Repeat for 100 hours.

I'm level 17, does the game ever evolve or change?
post #152 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

I think I can sum this game up.

1. Go to towns, random people will talk to you and ask you to get something or kill someone.
2. Travel to underground hideout/tunnels and kill undead or bandits to get something or kill someone.
3. Go back to town and get reward.
4. Repeat for 100 hours.

I'm level 17, does the game ever evolve or change?

Every game ever made can be summed up even more simply:

1. Push buttons and move stick
2. Repeat



Point is, all games are repetitive. Either a game works for you or it doesn't. If Skyrim isn't doing it for you by level 17, then chances are it won't ever improve in your eyes. At 100+ hours, you might find better ways to spend your time if you're not already enjoying the first 20. It's not like it suddenly introduces a new platforming mechanic or turns into a driving sim. It is what it is.

EDIT: But you bring up a fair point. It might be worth saying how I approach Bethesda RPGs.

The big selling point for me isn't combat or conversation. It's exploration and discovery. One thing I strongly dislike about the "console-ification" of Bethesda's games is the introduction of fast travel. It's not that I'm so masochistic that I want to spend hours traveling from one end of the map to the other. It's that it encourages people not to bother exploring on their own. Finding unexpected things along the way is the most amazing thing about their games, and you miss all of that if you fast travel everywhere. But that means you have to be a more patient gamer. If you're the impatient sort who just wants to get to the end of a game as quickly as possible, Skyrim is not for you.

It can feel much more repetitive when all it seems like you're doing is going from point A to point B to collect X item and then return to point A and talk to the next quest-giver and repeat. Instead, I like to wander. I follow quest lines that sound fun, and as I go to a new quest area, I take time to check stuff out on the way. I also don't grind any stats. I hate this in most RPGs, but I especially hate it in Bethesda games. It's too easy to exploit the leveling systems and max out certain stats and just arrow/magic your way through dungeons. That's just not fun, and it quickly becomes repetitive and easy. I prefer the game to work more organically and just let the leveling system work "beneath the hood" without min-maxing the game to death. I'd get bored quickly that way.

I also play with the difficulty maxed out at Master. The game is still easy in places, but certain areas have given me enough of a real challenge to keep combat and exploration interesting. I'm level 14 (and about 30hrs in) and am finally hitting some difficult areas where I have to combine my skills to progress. In a recent encounter with a random bandit enclave, I had to combine ranged combat with magic with potions with scrolls with my companion in creative ways. But that assumes you're willing to play a more challenging game.

IMO at its easiest and most straightforward (low difficulty setting, fast travel, and min-maxing) Skyrim would be very boring, and I can see where you might be coming from. But if you are the sort of gamer who likes to create challenges for themselves (like I do), there's plenty here to keep things interesting for at least a hundred hours or more.

And honestly, I personally can't understand how people can just play this game for the story on an easier difficulty setting. I got very bored and frustrated with Fallout 3 because it was too easy. I don't understand how anyone could spend more than 20 hours with the game and continue having fun after hitting the level cap. Bethesda are good at creating worlds and stories, but that alone isn't a good enough game for me. I need a real game with some challenge to it, too. Skyrim has so far met that standard for me. And it's only begins to feel "repetitive" when it seems too easy or too gamey because of fast travel or min-maxing.
post #153 of 275
Excellent post confidenceman! I concur.

I personally LOVE the creativity of the quests. (CAREFUL - POTENTIAL SPOILER - CONTINUE READING AT YOUR OWN RISK)

The quest where I investigated the burned out house where the mother and daughter died was incredible. I solved it, then talked to the girl's ghost in the cemetary and she thanked me for helping she and her mother find peace. Then she said, "I'm very tired, - I'm going to go to sleep now..." as she disappeared into her grave. Man, that was awesome, I'll always remember that quest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Every game ever made can be summed up even more simply:

1. Push buttons and move stick
2. Repeat



Point is, all games are repetitive. Either a game works for you or it doesn't. If Skyrim isn't doing it for you by level 17, then chances are it won't ever improve in your eyes. At 100+ hours, you might find better ways to spend your time if you're not already enjoying the first 20. It's not like it suddenly introduces a new platforming mechanic or turns into a driving sim. It is what it is.

EDIT: But you bring up a fair point. It might be worth saying how I approach Bethesda RPGs.

The big selling point for me isn't combat or conversation. It's exploration and discovery. One thing I strongly dislike about the "console-ification" of Bethesda's games is the introduction of fast travel. It's not that I'm so masochistic that I want to spend hours traveling from one end of the map to the other. It's that it encourages people not to bother exploring on their own. Finding unexpected things along the way is the most amazing thing about their games, and you miss all of that if you fast travel everywhere. But that means you have to be a more patient gamer. If you're the impatient sort who just wants to get to the end of a game as quickly as possible, Skyrim is not for you.

It can feel much more repetitive when all it seems like you're doing is going from point A to point B to collect X item and then return to point A and talk to the next quest-giver and repeat. Instead, I like to wander. I follow quest lines that sound fun, and as I go to a new quest area, I take time to check stuff out on the way. I also don't grind any stats. I hate this in most RPGs, but I especially hate it in Bethesda games. It's too easy to exploit the leveling systems and max out certain stats and just arrow/magic your way through dungeons. That's just not fun, and it quickly becomes repetitive and easy. I prefer the game to work more organically and just let the leveling system work "beneath the hood" without min-maxing the game to death. I'd get bored quickly that way.

I also play with the difficulty maxed out at Master. The game is still easy in places, but certain areas have given me enough of a real challenge to keep combat and exploration interesting. I'm level 14 (and about 30hrs in) and am finally hitting some difficult areas where I have to combine my skills to progress. In a recent encounter with a random bandit enclave, I had to combine ranged combat with magic with potions with scrolls with my companion in creative ways. But that assumes you're willing to play a more challenging game.

IMO at its easiest and most straightforward (low difficulty setting, fast travel, and min-maxing) Skyrim would be very boring, and I can see where you might be coming from. But if you are the sort of gamer who likes to create challenges for themselves (like I do), there's plenty here to keep things interesting for at least a hundred hours or more.

And honestly, I personally can't understand how people can just play this game for the story on an easier difficulty setting. I got very bored and frustrated with Fallout 3 because it was too easy. I don't understand how anyone could spend more than 20 hours with the game and continue having fun after hitting the level cap. Bethesda are good at creating worlds and stories, but that alone isn't a good enough game for me. I need a real game with some challenge to it, too. Skyrim has so far met that standard for me. And it's only begins to feel "repetitive" when it seems too easy or too gamey because of fast travel or min-maxing.
post #154 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman7w View Post

I personally LOVE the creativity of the quests.

Absolutely. My favorite are also the subtle, nearly hidden quests like the one you describe.

If you're paying attention, you can usually piece together what happened. And sometimes other characters or books or locations will fill out that tiny little quest into something very memorable. In past Bethesda games, some of these quests were among the most challenging (there were a few really tricky "hidden" quests in Fallout 3 and Morrowind), and they're almost always the most rewarding. These quests usually don't show up in your journal, don't give you much of a tangible reward, and definitely don't give you an achievement, but they feel so much cooler because you have to actively trace down what happened and what needs to be done.

Nothing super memorable for me yet in Skyrim, but I'm only 30 hrs in. I did, however, have a great "emergent" encounter with a troll. Pretty much an impossible fight for me at this point, so I had to get creative in my escape. Ended up drawing a few passersby into the fray. Good times!

The more I play, though, the more I wish there was a better death/save system closer to the GTA games or to Demon's/Dark Souls. Sometimes crazy things happen that I'd love to follow through on, but then I end up dying and have to reload. I mean, how awesome would it be if you draw a dragon into a town, accidentally hack down a guard, "die," and then get revived in a temple only to be put directly in jail? I wish there was a way to impose greater consequences rather than just being able to reload.
post #155 of 275
Does anybody else think Oblivion looked better than Skyrim?

I rented Skyrim today and it looks like hell. Maybe I'm experiencing the texture streaming issue. I hope so.
post #156 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

I think I can sum this game up.

1. Go to towns, random people will talk to you and ask you to get something or kill someone.
2. Travel to underground hideout/tunnels and kill undead or bandits to get something or kill someone.
3. Go back to town and get reward.
4. Repeat for 100 hours.

I'm level 17, does the game ever evolve or change?

Its easy to make any game sound boring.

Traveling is the fun in this game. Fast traveling can ruin the experience, I try to only use it to sell quickly or enchant an item. Ive had random encounters with mages duking it out in the forest and I had to decide whom I was going to help, if at all. Some dude/excon on the run just ran up to me one time and gave me a sword and told me told hold onto it until he met up with me again - I sold it :P Havent seen him since. Bizarre stuff happens out there. I plucked some flowers outside this womens cabin one time. 5-10+ hours of gameplay later I run across these three badass bandits. It takes everything I have to bring them down. I search the corpses and find a note. I read it and its a bounty on my head calling me a thief and for these dudes to teach me a lesson. I read the name and have no idea who it is. Later on I see the name on my map and Ive been there before. I go to the cabin and now remember what I did. She put a 1500 gold bounty on head for flower picking, so I killed her, stripped her down to her undies, and left her on her front porch

Im 40+ hours in, lvl 25, and not even worrying about the main quest. I still have to talk to the Greybeards. RIght now Im loving the College of Winterhold quest with the Eye of Magnus. This thing has kept me occupied for quite awhile and gotten some awesome loot.

Dont make this game point A to point B questing. Steal some ****, become an outlaw, take over a house in the woods and murder anyone that comes by. Piss off a dragon and have it chase you to a camp of bandits.

Make some rules for your character and try to live by them. Maybe he is racist against Khajiit. Or works for PETA and wont wear leather or fur and doesnt like people who do.

Or live by WWTDD - "What Would Tyler Durden Do?" He wont own a house in a city. He would just take over an abandoned cave or something. Doesnt care about jewelry or any other possessions. He wouldnt join the big Imperial Legion. etc. He makes soap and sells it aka Alchemist! He wouldnt rent/buy a horse, he would just steal it.
post #157 of 275
Got it guys, I'm playing it wrong. Funny how a 10/10 game can have so many faults and you have to use your imagination to overcome them

PS3 patch is out in the EU, supposed to fix most of the issues.
post #158 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoCSH View Post

Does anybody else think Oblivion looked better than Skyrim?

I also thought it looked like hell for the first few hours. My fix: play in third person and sit further from the display if you can. This is the first Bethesda game I've been able to play in third-person--mostly it's because the game looks like ass in first person. But really, you just sort of get used to it. And the design of the world is incredibly beautiful despite its graphical shortcomings. Your memory of Oblivion is probably a bit off, though.

Like so much else about this game, you have to overlook a lot of little flaws, and when you do the awesome scale of the game just sort of washes over you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

Got it guys, I'm playing it wrong. Funny how a 10/10 game can have so many faults and you have to use your imagination to overcome them

Well, it is called a "role playing" game. Too many recent so-called RPGs (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, etc) have taken away the imaginative part of the genre. That's why I've always felt that the GTA series was a better role playing game than most games that call themselves rpgs these days.

Bethesda is really the only studio making games like this anymore, and I can see how it might not suit modern tastes. It's a 1990's era PC RPG in modern console clothing.
post #159 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I also thought it looked like hell for the first few hours. My fix: play in third person and sit further from the display if you can. This is the first Bethesda game I've been able to play in third-person--mostly it's because the game looks like ass in first person. But really, you just sort of get used to it. And the design of the world is incredibly beautiful despite its graphical shortcomings. Your memory of Oblivion is probably a bit off, though.

I still play Oblivion so I don't think my memory is off. Oblivion was much sharper IMO. If Bethesda didn't have the skill with the PS3 they should have let 2K Studios do the port like they did with Oblivion.

I'll eventually get Skyrim once it hits $30 or they improve things with a patch.
post #160 of 275
http://capane.us/2011/11/24/dovahkiin-gutenberg/

Dudes, Skyrim's books all in one big ePub and mobi for your iPad or Kindle. Awesome.
post #161 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoCSH View Post

I still play Oblivion so I don't think my memory is off. Oblivion was much sharper IMO. If Bethesda didn't have the skill with the PS3 they should have let 2K Studios do the port like they did with Oblivion.

I'll eventually get Skyrim once it hits $30 or they improve things with a patch.

Yeah, if you're just talking about image sharpness, that won't be fixed. The "vaseline" look on the PS3 version comes from the way most multiplatform developers deal with AA on PS3.

But if you're talking about the overall graphics tech, that's disappointing across all platforms. I'm playing on 360, and it still looks like ass. Like I said above, there are ways to make it look a bit better (third person view helps a lot by broadening the FoV and moving the camera further away from textures and objects). And unlike prior Elder Scrolls games, Bethesda finally got third-person view (mostly) right. But ultimately you just have to get used to the way the game looks.

The bigger issue to wait on is the save-game/framerate problem on PS3. The patch has already been released in Europe, and it should be out soon in the US.
post #162 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

Yeah, if you're just talking about image sharpness, that won't be fixed. The "vaseline" look on the PS3 version comes from the way most multiplatform developers deal with AA on PS3.

It uses FXAA, it is one of the first games to use it on the PS3. The way they tuned it for the PC/PS3 was too aggressive toward edge smoothing which leads to texture blur.
post #163 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

I also thought it looked like hell for the first few hours. My fix: play in third person and sit further from the display if you can. This is the first Bethesda game I've been able to play in third-person--mostly it's because the game looks like ass in first person. But really, you just sort of get used to it. And the design of the world is incredibly beautiful despite its graphical shortcomings. Your memory of Oblivion is probably a bit off, though.

Man, I don't know if I just have lower standards or what, but frankly, I have NO idea what you guys are talking about.

I think the graphics are stunning. The first time I played I was just blown away. I still stop occasionally on my travels and just turn slowly and look at the amazing environment. A high mountain road; a tumbling river with a waterfall in the distance; a snowy mountainscape with 7,000 steps (and an ice troll with a bad disposition); a dark subterranean cavern illuminated with glowing fungi.... Seriously, I think it's wonderful.
post #164 of 275
"I still stop occasionally on my travels and just turn slowly and look at the amazing environment"

You're talking about art direction, which Bethesda is brilliant at. Their art staff is fantastic. The others are talking about technology, which Bethesda is always rather dated in. When a game takes five years to build, the technology behind is is three years old before it's even released to the public. Bethesda has been cutting edge, once, for a very short period of time when Oblivion was only on 360 and PC. It was dated by the time it hit PS3. Fallout 3 was dated at launch, as is Skyrim. The games are still fantastic, just not graphic technology showcases.
post #165 of 275
I don't think it is realistic for an open world game to look as good as other, corridor games. I think one has to compare Skyrim to games like RDR, GTAIV, infamous, Crackdown, Just cause 2, Two Worlds 2, etc.

I don't know how it holds up, I have only seen it on the PC.
post #166 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by darklordjames View Post

You're talking about art direction, which Bethesda is brilliant at. Their art staff is fantastic. The others are talking about technology, which Bethesda is always rather dated in.

Exactly.

The world of Skyrim is beautiful... as long as you don't look too closely.

Everything in the game viewed from a distance is stunning. The vistas, mountain peaks, valleys, rivers, etc., all look incredible when looked at from a wide view. Up close (say, within 2-3ft of in-game distance), it all just looks like turd. That's why I couldn't deal with playing in first person. Switching to third person means that nothing is ever closer to the camera than 8-10ft in-game.
post #167 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by confidenceman View Post

The bigger issue to wait on is the save-game/framerate problem on PS3. The patch has already been released in Europe, and it should be out soon in the US.

My save file was 11MB pre-patch. Post-patch it went to 10MB. Not drastic...but I guess it did something.

Immediately after patching the framerate issues seemed to have disappeared....but then my game froze (requiring a reset), 3 times in 30 minutes. I was about to give up for the night and figured I'd mess with the settings. I turned off every autosave trigger in the settings menu. Load times were cut drastically. Made a huge difference. Something tells me this would have the same effect with or without the patch.

Regardless, once I turned off autosave I didn't have any more freezes. The biggest framerate destroyer, the fort battles in the Civil War questline, ran much more smoothly for me last night.

Hopefully the patch fixes most of the issues. If you've had glitched quests, it's not going to help you, but they should be fixed for those who have yet to start the game.
post #168 of 275
I spent a few hours playing after the patch last night (deleted the game and re-installed). I must say the game looks better. Things look pretty amazing during evening/night. Especially traveling through the countryside at night during an aurora. One of the annoying texture issues I was seeing was moss showing up as a pixelated solid green mess (even from a distance). This apparently has been fixed. Other textures also definitely looked better. The combat is more satisfying than Oblivion. Love the shield bashing, and the finishing moves are a nice touch.

As usual, the soundtrack is amazing.

One annoying thing though. I'm a big tall Nord, but in first person mode I feel like my character is about 5'2". I can't seem to reach the top shelf

Check out this pretty comprehensive buglist: http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php...-far-thread-3/
post #169 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by MakoCSH View Post


One annoying thing though. I'm a big tall Nord, but in first person mode I feel like my character is about 5'2". I can't seem to reach the top shelf

I know huh??!!! LOL!!

PS - agree with you about the soundtrack - it's epic.
post #170 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

I don't think it is realistic for an open world game to look as good as other, corridor games. I think one has to compare Skyrim to games like RDR, GTAIV, infamous, Crackdown, Just cause 2, Two Worlds 2, etc.

I don't know how it holds up, I have only seen it on the PC.

I think Skyrim looks better than all those games with the possible exception of Just Cause 2. I find myself being impressed with this game continuously. It looks way, way better than Fallout 3.

There are a lot of naff textures in this game, true. But that's a small trade-off for what you do get. I don't think Betheseda could have done that much more with PS3 and 360 anyway.
post #171 of 275
The framerate issue has def. gotten better after the patch, but its still there if I'm in a busy town (i.e. Whiterun). I might try the no autosave trick see if it'll make it less annoying.
post #172 of 275
I played for just a little while yesterday and noticed it's much smoother, especially when autosaving.

I've read that resistances to things like magic and elements are not working since the patch. Anyone run into this? Is it just a rumor? I haven't had time myself to check it out but I plan to this weekend.
post #173 of 275
I found some odd scripting behavior. I killed some high official for a quest, the guard went nuts (even know I was hiding). I then ran far across the map, quick travel said "cannot quick travel while gaurds pursuing" or something like that. Ok... So I come back outside from the guild tunnel and a guard runs up and arrests me.

A. How did he know where I was?
B. No matter how far you go and how long you run, you will never get away?

So then I pay him 1,000 gold and he takes me to the city of the crime, across the map and releases me. WTF?

So the lesson is, don't play the game like a real life criminal, you can't run or hide. Just run up to the guard and pay him and then you are free like nothing happened, lol.
post #174 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgable View Post

I found some odd scripting behavior. I killed some high official for a quest, the guard went nuts (even know I was hiding). I then ran far across the map, quick travel said "cannot quick travel while gaurds pursuing" or something like that. Ok... So I come back outside from the guild tunnel and a guard runs up and arrests me.

A. How did he know where I was?
B. No matter how far you go and how long you run, you will never get away?

So then I pay him 1,000 gold and he takes me to the city of the crime, across the map and releases me. WTF?

So the lesson is, don't play the game like a real life criminal, you can't run or hide. Just run up to the guard and pay him and then you are free like nothing happened, lol.

Consider it "Glitch Tax."
post #175 of 275
Ok, I finally gettting started with it.
One question though, what do you think is the best class/race for:

1. Warrior
2. Thief/Sneaking
3. Mage

I want to be a mixed of 1 & 2,..but don't what to be a Khajiit or argonian.
I like the "human" kinda look.
Any suggestions?
post #176 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

Ok, I finally gettting started with it.
One question though, what do you think is the best class/race for:

1. Warrior
2. Thief/Sneaking
3. Mage

I want to be a mixed of 1 & 2,..but don't what to be a Khajiit or argonian.
I like the "human" kinda look.
Any suggestions?

Imperial. They get a race bonus for 2 of the 3 things you want to do.

That's what I'm using now. I wanted to play around with the magic and the weapons first time through so Imperial seemed a good balance. Keep sneaking and picking pockets and anyone can be a good thief, but it does take longer than a skill that gets a race bonus. Imperials also seem to be liked well enough, or at least not hated on sight, by the folks in Skyrim.
post #177 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxDam77 View Post

Ok, I finally gettting started with it.
One question though, what do you think is the best class/race for:

1. Warrior
2. Thief/Sneaking
3. Mage

I want to be a mixed of 1 & 2,..but don't what to be a Khajiit or argonian.
I like the "human" kinda look.
Any suggestions?

It really doesn't matter. The stats system is so flexible that there's not a whole lot of "min-maxing" to worry about. Just pick the race you want to play and focus on the skills you enjoy using. And if you get bored with those skills, you can just start using others without having to worry about having picked the "wrong" race or anything.

Yes, each race has certain stat bonuses, but, trust me, if you're just getting started, you'll end up jumping around a lot between skill types as you go, so those bonuses don't really matter much after the first few hours. It's far more important to pick a race suited to the role you want to play, not the skill-set.
post #178 of 275
Damn that was cool. Last night, I'm heading through the countryside, and I spy a bear a ways off... Just then... BBOOOMM!! A Dragon blows fire on me!! I immediately start running towards the bear, hoping to draw he and the dragon together and let them do my dirty work....

I pull clear of some trees and... THERE'S THREE BEARS!! And the dragon's no where to be seen!! I immediately assess my situation and apply the years of studying battlefield tactics that I've accrued and... RUN!!!

Three bears on my ass, no stamina and a dragon waiting in the wings!! But hey - I DID stay at a Holiday Inn last night! As if that wasn't bad enough, I stop to use my Sanguine Rose Staff (summons a Daedra to fight for me), when a fu&%$ing assasine jumps out of the bushes and starts wacking me!! WTF?? REALLY????

Ggaarrrrrrr!! I again get my getaway sticks in gear and begina tactical retreat (read: run like a mot&^$%ker) and FINALLY the dragon decides to land and he and the bears start going at it.

I step back and engage the idiot assassin by whacking him over the head repeatedly with my SkySteel Greatsword. He dies. (freakin Dark Brotherhood!)

THEN I use my Sanguine Rose staff to Summon a Daedra, who assists the bears by taking out the Dragon. The dragon finally falls (but not before taking out one of the bears and the Daedra), and the bears show NO gratitude, immediately turning towards me!!!

But they're hurt bad from the dragon fight and I take care of them easily.

Final tally: One Dragon, one Daedra, three Bears and an idiot Argonian assassin. God I love this game.
post #179 of 275
Great story, thanks!
post #180 of 275
Love the Sanguine Rose- it was getting me through areas I was too weak to be doing at the time as I got it early on. A friend told me it was in Oblivion as well. I didn't really play Oblivion so, was it the same?

Either way the first time I used it was a crack up. I ran into the middle of a camp of bandits and let one loose. I couldn't stop laughing as he charged around lighting them on fire and yelling challenges. It definitely burns through the soul gems so I try and use it sparingly, but what fun it is.
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