Official 70"+ LCD thread - Page 30

^^ Neither does the below quote make any sense to me, mathematically, anecdotally, or realistically.

If this is true then Sharp 10G should be turning positive next 6 months FY11 end March with 70" MSRP creeping up. Who cares depreciation if you can cost down 70%. Even DRAM node transition only cost down 30% and wafer transition from 8" to 12" is around 50%. As per my previous post, Merrill is saying they hardly breakeven on 60" itself. We'll see their results.

EDIT: >70% of panel is BOM cost while >70% of semicon is fixed cost. That's why I said analysts were wrong years back to think these 2 industries are similar just because it sounds like they use similar front end process. On the same note operating leverage in panels are not that high.

irkirk,
It is not clear from your post which technology type of LCD flat panel has 70% fixed cost and 30% variable costs and which type of LCD panel has 30% fixed cost and 70% variable cost. In any case the manufacture's objective is to mazimize the gross margin $ of the output from each of it's fabs regardless of technology type.

LGD utilization hit 75% in July. Hopefully there is a chance we'll see 72" from LG by Christmas.

That would be nice. All we can do is wait and hope.


Seth

^ Not much.

Just in time for CES 2012 and 2 years late to the dance.

Competition drives innovation and lowers pricing so either way it would be good news - but it would be nice for LG to deliver on the goods as they HYPE like hell during CES and then we twiddle our thumbs and wait and wait and it's rinse and repeat the next CES.

BB has a mid august or so date on the 735 and a mid. Sept. Or so date on the x5

They didnt have anything in their system on the samsung 75" but another store did and confirmed august as at least one websites has.

Personally I started thinkijg about the samsung just for the extra 5" but the fact that it will be edge lit and plagued with problems like the first sam 65"ers with 5/10 sets or more being returned/exchanged because of noticeable display problems, and most of the over inflsted price of the sam 75", i know think the sharp 735 (for best value 3d led lcd) and the x5 (highest end and full backlit, yet less expensive then samsung 75") are what im leaning towards

For a 72" passive display that does everything I want, and has superb PQ with both 2D and 3D, I'd pay $6k-$8k.

Not picking on you Specuvestor, but just wondering where all this financial analysis of the flat panel industry is coming from.

Have any of you worked in a fab running flat panel glass? I have and spend at least half my time in them. The tools are enormous, the robotics are beautifully graceful, and everything works according to one thing. TACT Time.

Newer tools not only can process more glass per pass, but in most cases do it faster. Each panel through a tool takes X minutes, the slowest process sets the pace for the whole fab (front end). Each tool is hooked together, metal (Sputter) is directly hooked to cleaners, photo, etch, etc.....

Once glass gets above around 500mm square and .7mm thick, you don't want human hands on it because it becomes to easy to break. This really has not been a issue for some time since humans also mean particles and that is the first place you go to increase your yields is to decrease particles.

Just saying that yes allot of it is scale, but there are other factors involved in why a company might build a bigger newer fab. As to how they divide up the glass, into what sizes, that is probably a science that involves more than just what is efficient to run, there is probably a decent amount of market research involved as well. Keep in mind also that there CAN be good reasons to run the place at a loss as well, Japanese companies are not above playing games to avoid taxes.

I have not seen any favorable reports about the 2D HD quality on the new passive 3D HDTVs. It is almost like the SD to HD transformation. The quality of SD programs upgraded to HD resolutions is poor.

If you've been following this thread, you will know that I've been saying in real world it is not as simplistic as just scale. I'm in total agreement of what u said above, except taxes. Japanese play games on taxes as everyone, but no one runs loss to avoid tax as primary motivation, except money laundering. it's more an afterthought consideration when you can't make money.

I've never been into a fab nor seen an iron ore but I've been researching Asian x japan equities for more than a decade. I've seen all the IR and management of TFT fab (excluding Japanese) to understand the idiosyncrasies. Which is why I always say it is not as simple as it looks when YOU are at the driver seat. The market is dynamic. If you can tell me which fab you work in, I can tell you who I met.

I'll be interested to see if they price it at 8K, as has been rumored. Being an "Elite", it's not likely to be discounted. If the Sony 65HX929 ends up 5K - 6K (street) it would have to be very impressive to sell at 8K (to me, unless the extra 5" is that big a deal that it's worth the premium, or if the PQ is somehow in "another class").

Let's remember that this is not Pioneer - Sharp is still in control and bought Elite Branding rights - Sharp has owned at least 18% of Pioneer for years but that purchase was not for the video end - they invested in it to improve their audio end and the first product was the sound bar on the XS1.

Sharp has had some high prices over the years but eventually they've always slashed them rather dramatically months after debut.

Also, Robert of Value Electronics and Kevin Miller actually know the actual List selling price but they are sworn to secrecy until the Press Release next week and he stated it definitely is not $8K even though BB Mag may list it high and try to sell it high it doesn't mean that's the actual selling price but for suckerville.

As an example take a look at Cleveland Plasma 735 model and then BB price and their markup is high and at MSRP and who pays MSRP? Suckers - in the early years of Sony Bravia I can recall a time when BB controlled the initial distribution and they were actually selling them above MSRP and so I surely wouldn't base Price Paid and use BB at all as the example. That's MSRP which is meaningless considering they are building these from high speed/volume production cuts at Saiki. My guess is $6,499. While I don't want to pay even that much if it's the holy grail of LED I may take a shot, that's what I paid for my 57" 5 years ago on sale and it's MSRP was $12K at that time.

I saw the 70" Sharp today for under $2400.

quote from kevin miller "TweakTV Co-Founder" from a different site

"HI All,

I can assure avjunkie and all of you that both the Sharp Elite and the Pioneer PRO-151FD were both calibrated to my best ability. Obviously the photograph did not capture the Pioneer accurately. I would say the flash washed out the picture. The Sharp's black level simply blows the Pioneer away, and I am not surprised by that as full array backlighting with Local Area Dimming technology has come a long way in the last year. As for off angle viewing it is still an issue, but it is not nearly as bad as on many other LED panels I have tested. I really can't say any more than that without violating my promise to Sharp. I will cover all of the performance parameters in my review, which will be posted on tweaktv if not Thurs Aug 4 then definitely Friday Aug 5 after the embargo. We will then link back to my section here for discussion, and a few days later I will publish it in its entirety here as well. "

Another quote from this guy named robert

"Just got back from Sharp USA headquarters and I have been asked to keep most of the information they shared with me confidential, but I can share somethings.

First, and most importantly, is the pq is outstanding. Second, is that nothing in this technology is in any way similar to any Sharp model. Just to tell you two very basic, but important features of the Elite series is that they are the only Sharp manufactured TVs that are back-lit and further the built-in video processor and contrast enhancement circuitry are also exclusive to the Elite series.

I could not stop my face from smiling when I saw the familiar Elite gold embossed logo on the center of the bottom bezel, it really looks cool. Speaking of the bezel, it's a black anodized brushed aluminum slim bezel that looks very professional.

They had it in their theater demo room sitting on a table next to an Elite Signature Series 141FD. Both panels were just calibrated by Kevin Miller when he visited Sharp last week to do his evaluation. With the room lights on the new Elite kicked ass, when the room was totally dark the new Elite still looked better, but the new Elite's improved pq was not as dramatic as it is with the room lights on.

More good news is that this panel exhibits very little blooming when a bright object moves across the black screen, which is due to the very small local dimming zones, they populated the full array back-lit LED with more zones than any other back-lit LED (sorry I can't disclose how many zones they put into this gorgeous panel, but I will disclose this and more at our shoot-out.) Also the blooming is hard to see as it not a bright glow around the objects, somehow they were able to greatly reduce the blooming anomaly.

I also can't announce the retail, but it another good surprise, the 60" and 70" are priced very well to appeal to a big segment of the high-end market and this TV is very well positioned for enthusiasts.

I'll post some pictures later.

I'm excited to have this beauty in our shoot-out.

-Robert "

the photo i saw as well the picture does looked wshed on the elite pro-151,for some reason i cannot copy and paste the link here but look for this heading on google "Thread: Sharp PRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD Elite rumor mill." if you read through there is price speculation as well "under $8000"

"There is no basis for pre-claiming quality issues with the 75"."

There is a basis for claiming that edge lit displays will never have very good uniformity. First of all, none ever has. Second of all, the problems of them will only get worse on larger displays due to even bigger light guides and inherently sloppier tolerances (you will not get better tolerances on giant sheets of glass and aluminum than on smaller ones, no matter how hard you try).

This is were I am confused. Niche high-end products and high end pricing obviously did not for Pioneer with the KURO and it goes against everything Sharp does to be seen as a value leader.
A lot has changed since the Kuro release. Bad economy and increased competition. You can get a excellent entry model 65" Panasonic plasma for a 2K street price. No doubt the Sharp 70X5 will be better, but 4 times the price better?
There will always be early adopters and money no object buyers who are willing to pay a premium, but selling a few thousand units at high mark-up is not how Sharp does business.
I think Vizio caught them off guard on the value leader front and they are now trying to dominate the emerging 60-70" market, with value leaders like the 732U on slim margins and with the X5 series being the halo. I would guess the 70X5 will be streeting at $5995 very soon after launch.

I'm confused is there both a 70" Sharp "PRO-70X5FD" and a Sharp "75"LCD on the near term horizon?

There is a Sharp 60" X5 and 70" X5 coming next month. The 75" is a Samsung 75D9500 that might becoming next year.

Have they redesigned this model from what they released in late 2010 elsewhere in the world and showed at CES 2011? If not, I doubt anyone would want in; the Sharp is clearly better (Please don't repeat this, it would ruin my street cred as a Sharp hater ). I kind of doubt the LG will be cheaper than the Elite Sharp anyway. And I very much doubt it will be better. Is 2" worth more money for less picture quality?

someone on the samsung thread said that one of the best buy sales staff told them to wait from buying a tv becuase the Samsung 75D9500 was coming very very soon

Top 10 reasons why we can't manufacture display panels in the US:

1. We signed a pledge not to make anything in the states.

2-->10 ??

anyone want to take a shot at this?

-nony