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Any one see the Lexicon MC-12HD replacement at CES? - Page 35

post #1021 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

With this rationale, Parasound is totally dead too, since they discontinued their C1/C2 surround processors almost 5 years ago. A replacement (C3) was planned, but was cancelled. Parasound stated something along the line that this area is too fast paced and they did not want to release a product that could not meet customers' demands. Today they still have not released a replacement processor. In fact, they currently don't offer a processor at all.
So by your standards, Parasound is a dead brand too (yeah right!) rolleyes.gif
Then we have TacT audio that did release a new high-end product. I spent 15 grand on their new flagship processor 2 years ago. The bugs never got fixed, HDMI never worked right, and 6 months ago the company stopped answering e-mails and phone calls. A few months later their web site went dead (virus). TacT audio can be considered DEAD, but Lexicon is very much alive. Please keep things real! biggrin.gif
Parasound's primary business was never SSP's, while Lexicon's always has been in this market. That's not to say Lexicon is dead, but I don't think you're using a good comparison there.
post #1022 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

With this rationale, Parasound is totally dead too, since they discontinued their C1/C2 surround processors almost 5 years ago. A replacement (C3) was planned, but was cancelled. Parasound stated something along the line that this area is too fast paced and they did not want to release a product that could not meet customers' demands. Today they still have not released a replacement processor. In fact, they currently don't offer a processor at all.
So by your standards, Parasound is a dead brand too (yeah right!) rolleyes.gif
Then we have TacT audio that did release a new high-end product. I spent 15 grand on their new flagship processor 2 years ago. The bugs never got fixed, HDMI never worked right, and 6 months ago the company stopped answering e-mails and phone calls. A few months later their web site went dead (virus). TacT audio can be considered DEAD, but Lexicon is very much alive. Please keep things real! biggrin.gif

If Lexicon is not dead and still kicking it will only take them 5 mins to say something about it. A simple "We are still working on new consumer level home audio products thank you for your patience" will suffice. It is not that much to ask for considering how silent they have been since the MP-20 issue.
post #1023 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

If Lexicon is not dead and still kicking it will only take them 5 mins to say something about it. A simple "We are still working on new consumer level home audio products thank you for your patience" will suffice. It is not that much to ask for considering how silent they have been since the MP-20 issue.

Should they have their PR and marketing folks call you before they decide what to say and what not to say??!biggrin.gif

There is no control for you in the situation... and it IS a lot to ask for them to give out information they deem not appropriate at the time. The fact that they dropped an Oppo player in a Lexicon chassis and announced and then cancelled the MP-20 tells volumes of the state of their SSP division.

You've got a 15 year old processor. Clearly there are other issues going on here as you likely had no interest in making such a substantial upgrade to a mega $$$ MP-20 as you skipped the MC-12B 8 years ago.
post #1024 of 1296
Why don't you ask them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

If Lexicon is not dead and still kicking it will only take them 5 mins to say something about it. A simple "We are still working on new consumer level home audio products thank you for your patience" will suffice. It is not that much to ask for considering how silent they have been since the MP-20 issue.
post #1025 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

If Lexicon...
As Amir already noted, they have products that sell very well at his store. The problem is that short "we have a brand new SSP" and it will be available tomorrow", there is no answer that will satisfy many posters. What will make you happy will not suffice for "X", and what meets "X's" needs will definitely not serve "Y". Lexicon is doing fine, is selling product, and if SSP is a market worth pursuing, they will likely pursue it, consider all the R&D they have invested. As Sanjay already stated, there are a number of very good and interesting SSP products available, if you feel the need for something new, go and explore.
post #1026 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Should they have their PR and marketing folks call you before they decide what to say and what not to say??!biggrin.gif
There is no control for you in the situation... and it IS a lot to ask for them to give out information they deem not appropriate at the time. The fact that they dropped an Oppo player in a Lexicon chassis and announced and then cancelled the MP-20 tells volumes of the state of their SSP division.
You've got a 15 year old processor. Clearly there are other issues going on here as you likely had no interest in making such a substantial upgrade to a mega $$$ MP-20 as you skipped the MC-12B 8 years ago.

I don't think you get the full picture

New MP-20 = Lower priced used MC-12 or MC-12HD

5 years later a new MP\MC = lowered price MP-20 etc. etc.

If Lexicon never put out another pre\pro there is a good chance the used market for the MC12's go up in price.

Not being able to afford the top of the Line Lexicon right now doesn't mean I do not have interest in the continued development of Lexicon Processors. I may be 5-10 years behind the curve on being able to afford the brand "new" products from Lexicon but unless Lexicon keep making pre\pro's then I'm eventually going to run out of options. I like Lexicon products and would like to continue using them going way forward but I'm very concerned about the future of Lexicon and would like them to just say something.

It is quite odd all the flak I'm taking for the simple matter of wondering what is going on with what used to be one of the biggest Higher End consumer audio makers in the world.

The silence is deafening, why do people keep making excuses for it or wonder why others would want to know what is going on?
Edited by swanlee - 10/22/12 at 9:21am
post #1027 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

As Amir already noted, they have products that sell very well at his store. The problem is that short "we have a brand new SSP" and it will be available tomorrow", there is no answer that will satisfy many posters. What will make you happy will not suffice for "X", and what meets "X's" needs will definitely not serve "Y". Lexicon is doing fine, is selling product, and if SSP is a market worth pursuing, they will likely pursue it, consider all the R&D they have invested. As Sanjay already stated, there are a number of very good and interesting SSP products available, if you feel the need for something new, go and explore.

There is nothing to explore, their is nothing with an equivalent to Logic 7 or QLS and it does not seem like Lexicon is going to be making a consumer pre\pro with either of these technologies in the future. If their is something similar to Logic 7 or QLS in a consumer level pre\pro please let me know as I've not been able to find one.

Still wish they would license these technologies to a company that would get off the pot and make some Consumer pre\pro's.

This market used to be Lexicon's bread and butter, do you really find it out that some would want to know WTF is going on with them in this market?
post #1028 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

This market used to be Lexicon's bread and butter, do you really find it out that some would want to know WTF is going on with them in this market?

High end processors is not where the cash is today. I bet their new DD-8 amplifier is their cash cow today. It's even featured on the front web page! wink.gif

Lexicon may think the same way as Parasound: If we can't make a really good product worth the money, then it's better not to release it.

Saying Lexicon is dead is ridiculous. They almost had a new product out, but then they realized that there were issues and that it's best not to put out a flawed product on the market. Better safe than sorry. Don't whine about it, instead just be happy that they had the decency to not release a product that could lure you to shell out a load of cash on a substandard product! biggrin.gif
post #1029 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

High end processors is not where the cash is today. I bet their new DD-8 amplifier is their cash cow today. It's even featured on the front web page! wink.gif
Lexicon may think the same way as Parasound: If we can't make a really good product worth the money, then it's better not to release it.
Saying Lexicon is dead is ridiculous. They almost had a new product out, but then they realized that there were issues and that it's best not to put out a flawed product on the market. Better safe than sorry. Don't whine about it, instead just be happy that they had the decency to not release a product that could lure you to shell out a load of cash on a substandard product! biggrin.gif

Yes just shut up and not let Lexicon know we are waiting and want a new Pre\Pro. Awesome thanks.

Well that is what Lexicon is doing in keeping their potential customers in the dark about where they are as a company. We will see how that works out for them.
post #1030 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

Yes just shut up and not let Lexicon know we are waiting and want a new Pre\Pro. Awesome thanks.
Well that is what Lexicon is doing in keeping their potential customers in the dark about where they are as a company. We will see how that works out for them.
Perhaps you guys could just agree to disagree on this matter? It seems clear after a few weeks that neither side is going to budge...

As far as Lexicon not saying anything, that's how they have traditionally operated in the past. Prior to the MP20 mess, I don't believe they ever announced anything until it had just about arrived in dealer inventory - probably to make sure that any blunders (whether their fault or a supplier's fault) that prevented something from shipping wouldn't make them look like a bunch of idiots. wink.gif It would be nice to see them finally come out with a product to replace the MC-12 HD, but if they don't they seem to have enough other things going on to remain a viable company, just without a surround sound processor in their lineup which was something that always separated them from other companies.

In the interim, I've really been enjoying my Denon AVP-A1HDCI that replaced my MC-12B EQ several years ago as I didn't consider the MC-12 HD a good path to take at the time as it struck me as an already near end of product life cycle MC-12 with HDMI added on, but without much potential for further updates. It would have cost me a LOT more to trade in my MC-12 for a MC-12 HD than it cost to buy the Denon and sell the MC-12. I'm still very happy with the path I took, but will take a close look and consider a future Lexicon SSP if they come out with another one at some point.
post #1031 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

Yes just shut up and not let Lexicon know we are waiting and want a new Pre\Pro. Awesome thanks.

Lexicon knows very well, no doubt. Also, there's no question that they already spent heaps of money on developing a new product.

So why did they not release it? They probably have qualified experts that said the product is not ready for today's volatile market.

Instead of bashing Lexicon's decisions, try to understand what's going on! cool.gif

JBL decided to move on from their SDP-40HD (Lexicon MC12HD) to the Bryston SP-3. It will be released on February 13 rebadged as SDP-45. Seems like a good choice to me, and I'm going to pick one up when it's available.
post #1032 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post


JBL decided to move on from their SDP-40HD (Lexicon MC12HD) to the Bryston SP-3. It will be released on February 13 rebadged as SDP-45. Seems like a good choice to me, and I'm going to pick one up when it's available.

The three JBL Synthesis® units I currently have deployed (SDP-5, AV-2, SDP-3) all have Logic7. Is it known if the SDP-45 will have L7 despite being sourced outside Harman?
post #1033 of 1296
some of you guys on this thread are falling into the common trap due to fond memories and brand loyalty. I love the lexicon products and will continue to do so but I am looking elsewhere for my next SSP. MC12 will not raise in price or the HD. There are a lot of them out there as it was one of the go to SSP's for custom installers. They are not analog and do not age like tube amps and wine. That being said I still hope to see a replacement eventually. As someone else said it is hard to justify the R&D to make this happen. I would not be surprised if we see more than half of the smaller processor companies either go under or move on to other products in the coming years.
post #1034 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

The three JBL Synthesis® units I currently have deployed (SDP-5, AV-2, SDP-3) all have Logic7. Is it known if the SDP-45 will have L7 despite being sourced outside Harman?

Have heard from a reliable source that the SDP-45 will NOT have Logic 7, but it is intended to be replaced with an upgraded version currently known as Quantum 7 (or presumably some other number if more channels are involved)

Might add, that the source wasn't sure if the Q7 would be installed in the initial release, but might be uploadable later.
post #1035 of 1296
Ah yes, Q7. That would be interesting.

I might get in line for that.
post #1036 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

Have heard from a reliable source that the SDP-45 will NOT have Logic 7, but it is intended to be replaced with an upgraded version currently known as Quantum 7 (or presumably some other number if more channels are involved)
Might add, that the source wasn't sure if the Q7 would be installed in the initial release, but might be uploadable later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

Ah yes, Q7. That would be interesting.
I might get in line for that.

I have heard of Logic 7 ( L7 ) ..and I have heard of QuantumLogic Surround ( QLS )...but what is Q7?

RayJr
post #1037 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

I have heard of Logic 7 ( L7 ) ..and I have heard of QuantumLogic Surround ( QLS )...but what is Q7?
RayJr

Presumably the "update/upgrade" to Logic 7.
post #1038 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

Presumably the "update/upgrade" to Logic 7.

My guess is that you are referring to QuantumLogic Surround it is what Harman calls QLS.....not Q7.....as QLS can do up to 12.1 channels

RayJr
post #1039 of 1296
Sorry. I was thinking of this: http://models.audiusa.com/q7

I just couldn't figure out how to get it into into a 19" rack.

BTW, WTF is the "Lap of luxury?"
post #1040 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayjr View Post

My guess is that you are referring to QuantumLogic Surround it is what Harman calls QLS.....not Q7.....as QLS can do up to 12.1 channels
According to the page you linked to, there are three versions of QuantumLogic Surround:

QLS 7.1 (self explanatory)
QLS+Height (9.1 version, adding two height speakers up front)
QLS 3D (12.1 version, adding 5 height speakers)

The re-badged Bryston might be able to do the first two, since it has 7.1 outputs and a L/R AUX output. From what John posted, I'm guessing it will probably be the 7.1 version.
post #1041 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

According to the page you linked to, there are three versions of QuantumLogic Surround:
QLS 7.1 (self explanatory)
QLS+Height (9.1 version, adding two height speakers up front)
QLS 3D (12.1 version, adding 5 height speakers)
The re-badged Bryston might be able to do the first two, since it has 7.1 outputs and a L/R AUX output. From what John posted, I'm guessing it will probably be the 7.1 version.

Yes, and QLS 3D will make its debut "incorporated into the Lexicon MP-20" confused.gif... oh, wait. No it won't. Hopefully the JBL Synthesis® folks will get to use it; otherwise I guess I have to buy a Ferrari with the JBL Professional system in it..

I think "signal decomposition" is an awkward term, since yesterday I saw a dead dog by the side of the road and decomposition wasn't improving it at all.
post #1042 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by filecat13 View Post

otherwise I guess I have to buy a Ferrari with the JBL Professional system in it..
Aw, you poor thing. I hope Synthesis and/or Lex comes out with QLS so you don't 'have to by a Ferrari'.
post #1043 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Aw, you poor thing. I hope Synthesis and/or Lex comes out with QLS so you don't 'have to by a Ferrari'.

Don't worry, I'll take you for a ride. Bring your own plastic bag.
post #1044 of 1296
How many channels does a Ferrari have?
post #1045 of 1296
You would think for purely marketing reasons that Lexicon would have communicated some assurances to their authorized dealers that they are working on a replacement for the MC-12HD. Otherwise dealers would be dropping them like a dead rat. I still think that JBL going with Bryston is an indication that a new Lex model is several years away. In the past JBL was a strong partner with Lexicon and losing their niche in the high end is a big deal, IMO. Lexicon may be able to play the "let them wait" game but JBL has their own business model to take care of and I still can't imagine they would forgo a Lex model if something new was just months away, or that their Harman Intl bosses would go along with it. I am on the lookout for a good used MC-12HD or JBL SDP40HD, but it appears that most owners of those models have no inclination to give them up, which I can entirely understand given the way things have developed so far.
post #1046 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

How many channels does a Ferrari have?

According to this, I'm surmising 7.1, but it takes 15 speakers to get there.

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/Newscenter/Pages/QuantumLogicIntro.aspx#.UJTSHrTmbN4

BTW, wasn't CMMD (Ceramic Metal Matrix Diaphragm) originally an Infinity innovation? Now JBL Professional is doing it? and WTH is JBL Pro doing in car audio?

And what does this have to do with Lexicon? I guess it could have a Lexicon re-badged head unit, but, no, there's no Lexicon product with QuantumLogic™ in it.
Edited by filecat13 - 11/3/12 at 1:25am
post #1047 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by bioforce View Post

Have heard from a reliable source that the SDP-45 will NOT have Logic 7, but it is intended to be replaced with an upgraded version currently known as Quantum 7 (or presumably some other number if more channels are involved)
Might add, that the source wasn't sure if the Q7 would be installed in the initial release, but might be uploadable later.

The SDP-45 released on 2/13/2013 is a rebadged Bryston SP-3. It does not have Logic 7. The design concept of the SP-3 is the same as the design concept for the JBL Synthesis amplifiers made by ATI: Keep the signal path as short, clean, and simple as possible. The Bryston SP-3 does not have room correction or any other fancy signal processing. It's a champion analog performer.That's the design goal, so don't expect any major features to be added. On the other hand this design is perfect for the Synthesis systems that use the SDP-3000/4500 external DSP units.

The "upgraded version with Quantum 7" referred to is NOT the SDP-45. My guess is that this refers to the new Lexicon MP-20 - or whatever it will be called the day Lexicon finally decides to release it...

BTW, here's a great 30 minute review of the SP3:
English (dubbed): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7BBG2vlQs8
German: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5-uy_Qu3vU
Edited by Peter Nielsen - 11/3/12 at 10:56am
post #1048 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

I am on the lookout for a good used MC-12HD or JBL SDP40HD, but it appears that most owners of those models have no inclination to give them up, which I can entirely understand given the way things have developed so far.
Two months ago JBL still had them, both new and B-stock. The B-stock with full warranty was less than you see used units go for on eBay, so make sure to check with your dealer before jumping the gun on a used unit without warranty...
post #1049 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

You would think for purely marketing reasons that Lexicon would have communicated some assurances to their authorized dealers that they are working on a replacement for the MC-12HD. Otherwise dealers would be dropping them like a dead rat. I still think that JBL going with Bryston is an indication that a new Lex model is several years away. In the past JBL was a strong partner with Lexicon and losing their niche in the high end is a big deal, IMO. Lexicon may be able to play the "let them wait" game but JBL has their own business model to take care of and I still can't imagine they would forgo a Lex model if something new was just months away, or that their Harman Intl bosses would go along with it. I am on the lookout for a good used MC-12HD or JBL SDP40HD, but it appears that most owners of those models have no inclination to give them up, which I can entirely understand given the way things have developed so far.

Exactly my point, even if I'm not going to buy a new Lexicon pre\pro right now their silence will be effecting my ability to get an MC-12HD at a lower price point.
Lexicon being silent after the MP-20 debacle is not helping them at all. JBL is jumping ship, no one has any confidence in them or what they are doing and that SILENCE is one of the main factors allowing this type of thought to continue.
post #1050 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

Exactly my point, even if I'm not going to buy a new Lexicon pre\pro right now their silence will be effecting my ability to get an MC-12HD at a lower price point.
Why should your ability to get a MC-12HD at "a lower price point" be Lexicon's concern? By and large, those who can afford to pay MSRP (which is obviously Lexicon's target customer) for a new Lexicon processor probably aren't overly concerned about what the eventual resale value will be on their previous Lexicon processor, which means that the used market really isn't going to have a huge impact on their bottom line (losing customers because future resale value isn't great). Lexicon cares about selling new product, not how the eBay, Audiogon, and Craig's List market is doing. They should be focusing on what they're currently selling and whatever future products they're working on along with sales of those products. One can probably make an argument that whatever went wrong with the MP20 combined with silence ever since about a processor to eventually replace the MC-12HD may affect the success of their future processor assuming it eventually ships. But I suspect that if they deliver a solid feature set and a high quality product as they've traditionally done they'll do just fine.
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