Any one see the Lexicon MC-12HD replacement at CES? - Page 37

Any whispers on what they might announce at the 2103 CES show? If that shows ends w/o any concrete info on a MC-12HD replacement I will say farewell to you good folks and start hanging out in the Bryston SP-3 chats as that will be my new pre/pro..

I expect JBL to announce the SDP-45HD, which is a customized Bryston SP-3.

They mentioned it at CEDIA but I guess that wasn't an official announcement. I'm more curious if they will say anything about being able to port QuantumLogic (even a 7-channel version) to the SP-3. If they're having trouble building a physical box (pre-pro) to hold their technology, I wish they would at least use someone else's box in the mean time to deliver their new tech to consumers.

Well, at least in their press release about QuantumLogic, Harman High Performance AV stated that they will introduce it in future Lexicon and JBL Synthesis products:

The question is, whether a "customized" Bryston SP-3 will incorporate QuantumLogic and it case it does, whether it is the 7.1 or the 9.1 version. The latter would have to make use of the two AUX outputs of the SP-3. The question if this is technically feasible at all, also depends on whether the digital board from Momentum Data Systems and the TI Aureus chip that Bryston is using in the SP-3 will support the number of channels and if the chip has enough headroom for the QuantumLogic processing.

In the same press release from September 2011, they mentioned the "upcoming" 12.2 Channel Lexicon MP-20 incorporating all the 5 possible height channels of QuantumLogic...

Anyway, in a few days we might be wiser regarding the feature set of the SDP-45HD. :-)

Cheers!

Markus

From what was hinted at CEDIA a few months ago, IF they do port QLS to the Bryston, then it will be the 7-channel version (would be nice if they took advantage of the AUX outputs for Height channel extraction). But the only thing somewhat certain is that they'll be using the SP-3 in Synthesis systems for basic pre-pro needs; porting QLS is a rumor at this point. Room correction will be done outboard on SDEC units, as they've always done.

Hope they port QLS to something soon. Heard the demo at Cedia '11, and it's the only thing that's gotten me excited about getting a new processor. Everything else seems a very small step forward at best. Hard to believe they won't do anything w/QLS after developing it, but we're more than two years out now from that Cedia show and still nothing. Throughout their lines, Harman doesn't seem to know what it wants to do in the home audio space. Some interesting things here and there but no apparent corporate commitment.

Seems to me that 1) All reports are that QLS is head and shoulders above DSX and Neo X, so the latter could be dispensed with 2) Lexicon and JBL are not products for the masses

The inventor of Neo:X (James Johnston) wanted to do something similar for his 11-speaker layout (7.1 plus 4 heights). DTS decided instead to do 11 speakers similar to the Audyssey DSX layout (7.1 plus 2 heights and 2 wides). Maybe they thought that, for better or worse, the DSX layout would become some sort of de facto standard, what with Audyssey being so ubiquitous. Even more of a concern now that there are Blu-ray titles with Neo:X encoded heights and wides, like the recent 'Expendables 2' and upcoming 'Dredd'. Right, which is why it would only be on pre-pros that were rebadged for JBL Synthesis systems (not Bryston branded products). Synthesis pre-pros won't be licensing any Audyssey technologies, since they've already been using Harman's new ARCOS room correction for the last couple years. Like Noah said, if you're buying a JBL Synthesis pre-pro, then you're probably not looking for Audyssey room correction nor Audyssey surround processing. IF the MP-20 had come to be, they wouldn't have licensed any Audyssey technologies, for the reason mentioned above (would already have ARCOS). Keep in mind that room correction is the primary reason to license Audyssey. Their other technologies, like loudness compensation (Dynamic EQ) are available from other companies (Dolby Volume, THX Loudness Plus).

However, I do think that the MP-20 would have a full suite of Dolby and DTS (and probably THX) licensed processing modes, if at least for a marketing checklist. Who knows, maybe we would have seen an option to do the version of Neo:X that JJ originally wanted (4 heights). If someone wanted to do the current Neo:X layout, then it shouldn't be a problem to repurpose QLS's rear heights as front wides. Plenty of 7.1 receivers give you the option to use the 6th and 7th output as either surround-backs or heights or wides.

So how many CES's is this thread still going to be relevant? Think this is the 3rd CES since the thread was created and we are really no closer to getting a Lexicon pre\pro.

Also what good does all the time money and research of QLS do if it is not used in anything? At this pace we will see QLS in Harmon's lower end receivers then an actual Lexicon Pre\Pro.

AFAIK everyone's recommended speaker locations are based on angles, not which room surface they're supposed to be on.

No, if anything it's the other way 'round: some low end receivers had Audyssey room correction but none of the peripherals (DSX, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume). To underscore what Noah said, it's all about the angles, not the speaker type nor the surface it's mounted on. For QLS, one pair of height speakers splits the angles between the fronts and sides while a second pair of height splits the angles between the sides and rears, similar to this:



Elevation can be higher than 45 degrees. Speaker angles don't have to be exact, since there are no standards for height speakers, just as long as you get the impression of sound above. Also, there's no reason why this speaker configuration wouldn't be compatible with Neo:X or PLIIz if you turned off the rear heights or ran them in parallel with the front heights.

Just saw that JBL Synthesis has put the SDP-45 on their web site: http://www.jblsynthesis.com/Products/Details/232

There is no mention about any functionality beyond that, what the original Bryston design offers, as far as I could see...

Cheers!

Markus

Why did JBL even bother then since there's no additional features beyond those in the Bryston unit or the QLS we were all hoping for.

Oh well! Maybe Lexicon will produce a unit one day.

For the things that the 11 year old SPD-45HD (Lex MC-12HD) doesn't have: format decoding for HD audio codecs like TrueHD & DTS-HD MA, USB input, Ethernet control, Deep Colour and 3D pass through, etc.

One also has to wonder how many more MC-12HD's (and the JBL equivalent) can be built. Given that the MP-20 was canceled before it even got to production because some parts weren't available, it should stand to reason that parts to build the much older platform might become scarce sooner or later. JBL needes a SSP in order to keep selling their Synthesis systems so it makes sense to outsource it at this point given the lack of alternatives available to them in-house. It would also seem to suggest that it's still going to be a while yet before Lexicon gets around to releasing anything new. Let's hope for their sake that the car audio business doesn't dry up in the meantime.

Bass management has to do with the capabilities of your speakers, not source channels. Except for old Pro Logic (which had a bandwidth limited mono surround channel), most surround processing/decoding and lossy/lossless codecs have full frequency channels. How much bass various mixing engineers put into those full range channels is a different story. But let's not confuse channels with speakers.

If someone's height speakers go down to 35Hz, then they can cross the heights over at 35Hz. If someone else's L/R main speakers roll off at 120Hz, then they'll have to cross the mains over at 120Hz. So it's not a question of full range channels, just what your speakers are capable of reproducing. If the surround processing is extracting an additional output from a pair of discrete channels, then that matrixed channel is as full range as the discrete channels it came from. For example: when you extract a centre output from stereo music, that extracted centre is not badwidth limited. Same with extracted rears or heights or wides.

That's something else DaVinci messed up. Of course, there were no loudspeakers at the time, but here's a page from his thesis on the future placement of front and rear heights, as illustrated by his assistant. It's unclear if his assistant was poorly paid or just dressed to please the old man. In any case, I hope Sanjay is not offended by this historically accurate rendering showing the compass points for the location of the four height channel speakers. Maybe the assistant just couldn't spread his legs far enough apart. I suspect it also was quite cold on that marble floor, if you know what I mean.

Looks like the only "custom' is the faceplate and a shorter warranty. The didn't list a price.

Steve

Why?

Unless you otherwise can localize the sub(s), that just results in satellite speakers that are bigger and more expensive then they need to be, and/or less headroom and higher distortion from driving them at frequencies better handles by subs.

Also less smooth bass response that varies with program material, as the bass content of each speaker may vary from others and sum differently because each speaker location excites of room modes differently.

okay guys here's the first picture direct from CES

SDP-45

RayJr

according to the Harman representative I spoke to they are still working on a lexicon replacement.

RayJr

Great news but they need to hurry up and get the word out.

$1000 more than the SP3 with an inferior warranty. Is there any added value or is it a stock Bryston?

It most definitely has custom software (because otherwise the display would say "Bryston" on power-up). Like the MC-12HD/SDP-40HD, the differences may possibly include default settings that are preset for Synthesis systems. Apart from that, my best guess is that the units are identical. Correct me if I'm wrong!

I very much prefer the looks of the JBL, but I'm guessing one disadvantage may be that the JBL software updates will be delayed a bit and not as quickly available as from Bryston. Just an educated guess. I may be wrong...

I don't see the point. Get a black SP3 and save $1k. I'm guessing Harman was desperate to have something since the Lexicon is far from ready. The Bryson is supposed to sound killer as a multichannel preamp but it's basically featureless.