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Any one see the Lexicon MC-12HD replacement at CES? - Page 38

post #1111 of 1296
Tony.. All your great gear is going? What's next?!
post #1112 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Tony.. All your great gear is going? What's next?!

haven't decided yet really for a longer term solution. I plan on playing around with the Marantz for now to hold me but long term not sure. The ADA and the Datasat are on my short list. Just want to play with something new.
post #1113 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

I don't see the point. Get a black SP3 and save $1k. I'm guessing Harman was desperate to have something since the Lexicon is far from ready. The Bryson is supposed to sound killer as a multichannel preamp but it's basically featureless.

It may be "featureless", but it has a very important feature that most preamps lack: 7.1 analog bypass. This is perfect for Synthesis systems, since the SDEC does all processing (levels, delay, equalization) . The bypass lets you use the decoder in your BluRay to pass on the signal without giving the preamp any chance to botch the signal.

I completely understand the need for replacing the 40HD asap: One of the reasons I never picked up a 40HD was the lack of 7.1 analog inputs.
post #1114 of 1296
I gotta tell you with the Classe' stuff you have, there are few (if any) choices that will make a significant impact on your sound. That is good, quality stuff. Unless of course you move to a room correction SSP (datasat) or Trinnov. SSPs at this level sound much alike IMO unless there is a feature you must have... and amplifiers? I can't imagine you doing much better either unless you want powered speakers (e.g. Genelecs or Seatons).

That said, sometimes its just plain fun to spend money on new toys!
post #1115 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

It may be "featureless", but it has a very important feature that most preamps lack: 7.1 analog bypass. This is perfect for Synthesis systems, since the SDEC does all processing (levels, delay, equalization) . The bypass lets you use the decoder in your BluRay to pass on the signal without giving the preamp any chance to botch the signal.

I completely understand the need for replacing the 40HD asap: One of the reasons I never picked up a 40HD was the lack of 7.1 analog inputs.

Parasound Halo P7 multichannel analog piece will do the same thing for far less and has a very highly rated analog section. In fact it has 2 sets of 7.1 analog inputs. Just my opinion but if someone plans to leverage the SCED, why get this processor? It's strictly being used for analog and volume control.
Edited by adidino - 1/10/13 at 5:15am
post #1116 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I gotta tell you with the Classe' stuff you have, there are few (if any) choices that will make a significant impact on your sound. That is good, quality stuff. Unless of course you move to a room correction SSP (datasat) or Trinnov. SSPs at this level sound much alike IMO unless there is a feature you must have... and amplifiers? I can't imagine you doing much better either unless you want powered speakers (e.g. Genelecs or Seatons).

That said, sometimes its just plain fun to spend money on new toys!

I have no real motivation to sell it other than to tinker with something new. I don't expect to gain much in sound quality if at all. The Classe has served me well. It's the best piece I've owned (so far anyway). Although IP control and auto room correction would be nice.
Edited by adidino - 1/29/13 at 6:28pm
post #1117 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Parasound Halo P7 multichannel analog piece will do the same thing for far less and has a very highly rated analog section. In fact it has 2 sets of 7.1 analog inputs. Just my opinion but if someone plans to leverage the SCED, why get this processor? It's strictly being used for analog and volume control.

That would be fine if all you wanted to use was one or two sources with 7.1 output and other sources with analog output. However, most people today will probably have at least *one* device that is HDMI-only, in which case the Parasound does not do what you need. (What is a SCED?)
post #1118 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

That would be fine if all you wanted to use was one or two sources with 7.1 output and other sources with analog output. However, most people today will probably have at least *one* device that is HDMI-only, in which case the Parasound does not do what you need. (What is a SCED?)

Typo.. SDEC! smile.gif (JBL's eq system)

But to your point. Now the 45HD becomes an $11k hdmi source switch. Not to mention Oppo has implemented an HDMI IN with the 103 and 105 for other HDMI sources.
Edited by adidino - 1/10/13 at 6:46am
post #1119 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Typo.. SDEC! smile.gif (JBL's eq system)

But to your point. Now the 45HD becomes an $11k hdmi source switch. Not to mention Oppo has implemented an HDMI IN with the 103 and 105 for other HDMI sources.

Hi Tony,

So, is your opinion that the 105's DAc is near enough to the Classe, that you are selling the latter, especially in view of the 105's input capabilities?

Thought that you owned Pas LAb amps...or was that a while back?

Thank you very much

Fury
post #1120 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Typo.. SDEC! smile.gif (JBL's eq system)

But to your point. Now the 45HD becomes an $11k hdmi source switch. Not to mention Oppo has implemented an HDMI IN with the 103 and 105 for other HDMI sources.

I was referring to getting Audio out of gear that only has a HDMI connector.Using the Oppo HDMI input will work, but that's already on the verge of being what I would consider a cludge. Why have to power up the BluRay to use the HDMI source?

Also, if the source is 2-channel, does the Oppo have sound modes that lets you use all channels? I'm guessing you run into several limitations here.

However, if you want to save money, you can completely leave out the preamp and run the Oppo 103/105 directly to the SDEC. And if you need to run a long balanced run between the Oppo and SDEC, use a Rane BB44X balance buddy with Option 88. The Oppo has good volume control built-in. No need for a preamp at all!
post #1121 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Srgtfury View Post

Hi Tony,

So, is your opinion that the 105's DAc is near enough to the Classe, that you are selling the latter, especially in view of the 105's input capabilities?

Thought that you owned Pas LAb amps...or was that a while back?

Thank you very much

Fury

No longer have the Pass Lab amps. Currently using Classe CT series amps.

Not saying the Oppo 105 dacs are better or worse than the Classe or any other high end processor (although the Sabre dacs in the Oppo 105 are highly regarded). The point I was making is if someone wants a Synthesis setup, I didn't see the point of the JBL processor for $11K + SDEC eq if all it requires is multichannel analog out from the processor.

I would personally prefer a fully featured processor if possible. I still love my Classe. My only gripe is it lacks ip control and auto room correction. Although some claim PEQ built into the Classe is the the way to go.
post #1122 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Just my opinion but if someone plans to leverage the SCED, why get this processor?
For decoding the new HD audio formats and applying surround processing. SDECs are used only for room correction, the same way ADA uses its outboard Trinnov EQ boxes. If you get an ADA TEQ, it doesn't mean you no longer need a pre-pro.
post #1123 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHat View Post

Any whispers on what they might announce at the 2103 CES show? If that shows ends w/o any concrete info on a MC-12HD replacement I will say farewell to you good folks and start hanging out in the Bryston SP-3 chats as that will be my new pre/pro..
Then it's time to say farewell. Reps at the Harman room made it clear that their JBL Synthesis line is a bigger priority for them right now than the Lexicon brand. So while they are still working on a new Lex, consumers will likely see QuantumLogic Surround processing in a box with a Synthesis faceplate before something Lexicon branded.

It's still up in the air whether the re-badged Bryston has the DSP horsepower to do even a scaled down version of QLS. However, the next Synthesis pre-pro they look for (whether built by Harman or a re-badged box from another manufacturer) will be chosen on its ability to handle QLS processing.

If having the Lexicon name on the front of your pre-pro is important to you, then I wouldn't hold my breath for something new in the next couple of years. That brand is just not as big a priority for them as their big-ticket Synthesis line. But if having the technology is more important, then we might have better luck.
post #1124 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

The point I was making is if someone wants a Synthesis setup, I didn't see the point of the JBL processor for $11K + SDEC eq if all it requires is multichannel analog out from the processor.

If your only source is an Oppo 105, then by all means skip the prepro completely! I agree it's not needed. The Oppo has great built-in volume control and great DACs. If all you have is two 7.1 sources with great DACs, then a Parasound P7 will be great.

However, once you add other sources you will probably sooner or later find that you need a prepro with HDMI audio decoding and/or surround processing. If you can live with an additional/unnecessary A-D-A conversion when using 7.1 analog in, then the $2400 Onkyo 5509 is a good solution. If this is not acceptable, then you're looking at the SDP-45 or Bryston SP-3
post #1125 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

For decoding the new HD audio formats and applying surround processing. SDECs are used only for room correction, the same way ADA uses its outboard Trinnov EQ boxes. If you get an ADA TEQ, it doesn't mean you no longer need a pre-pro.

Oppo can handle the decoding. As for post processing (PLIIx, etc) if the output from the processor is pure analog then into the SDEC , post processing is defeated. Unless I'm missing something?

I'm not suggesting we all forgo our processors for an Oppo. My original point is for the JBL Synthesis solution, a multichannel analog pre + SDEC will do the job.
Edited by adidino - 1/10/13 at 11:10am
post #1126 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Oppo can handle the decoding.

Why are you assuming that everybody is using (or will want to use) an Oppo? wink.gif

What about people with a Kaleidescape system? Does it also have good 7.1 analog out and handles all decoding/processing?
post #1127 of 1296
Can; the Theta CBIII take an LPCM signal from a Blu Ray player's HDMI output, post-process it with PL IIx, etc and then output it via the digital our (digi card - 4 toslink outs)?

Then you could get multiple HDMI sources in and still output a digital signal. Correct?
post #1128 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

Why are you assuming that everybody is using (or will want to use) an Oppo? wink.gif

What about people with a Kaleidescape system? Does it also have good 7.1 analog out and handles all decoding/processing?

Kaleidescape is going down for the count. smile.gif

Just making a point there is more than one way to skin a cat. All depends on your sources and needs. But Kaleidescape; hdmi in to the Oppo will work .. lol smile.gif Now you have a dedicated BD player and a server fully operational. What more do you want? tongue.gif Beyond that you are on your own. wink.gif
post #1129 of 1296
I love the idea of KScape but I rarely, if ever, watch movies twice. I'm usually about new releases.

Not that I wouldn't want to on some occasions, but perhaps after the kids are gone, then then it would make sense for me.
post #1130 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

As for post processing (PLIIx, etc) if the output from the processor is pure analog then into the SDEC , post processing is defeated. Unless I'm missing something?
The analogue output from the processor is what feeds your amps, so I'm not sure why you think that surround processing would be defeated. For example: a 5.1-channel soundtrack is sent via HDMI from an Oppo to the JBL SPD-45, where it is scaled to a 7.1-speaker layout. That 7.1 signal is sent via 8 balanced analogue output to the SDEC, where room correction is done.

That middle step, where the number of channels in the source material is scaled to the number of speakers in the layout, can't be done in the player nor outboard room correction box; it has to be done in a pre-pro. This is true whether we're talking about a JBL Synthesis system or ADA system; both systems have outboard room correction, but those room correction boxes don't do surround processing.
post #1131 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Who knows, maybe we would have seen an option to do the version of Neo:X that JJ originally wanted (4 heights).
Went to the DTS demo at CES and was surprised by their 11-speaker layout: typical 7 speakers at ear level plus 4 height speakers above. What happened to Neo:X wides?
post #1132 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

The analogue output from the processor is what feeds your amps, so I'm not sure why you think that surround processing would be defeated. For example: a 5.1-channel soundtrack is sent via HDMI from an Oppo to the JBL SPD-45, where it is scaled to a 7.1-speaker layout. That 7.1 signal is sent via 8 balanced analogue output to the SDEC, where room correction is done.

That middle step, where the number of channels in the source material is scaled to the number of speakers in the layout, can't be done in the player nor outboard room correction box; it has to be done in a pre-pro. This is true whether we're talking about a JBL Synthesis system or ADA system; both systems have outboard room correction, but those room correction boxes don't do surround processing.

Hm? Is this so?!! eek.gif I thought the Oppo would be able to scale to 7.1 and that I would be able to use the passthrough in the SDP-45 all the time. If this is not the case, I probably should put my SDP-45 purchase on hold. It's the passthrough I really want. If I can't use that, then my Onkyo 5509 will work just fine!

Thanks for the heads up! I really need to look into this before shelling out the cash for the SDP-45! Fortunately I have an 8 channel Rane balance buddy here, so I can hook up the Oppo 105 directly to the SDEC-4500P/X and check out how the passthrough works out for all practical purposes.
Edited by Peter Nielsen - 1/10/13 at 2:58pm
post #1133 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Went to the DTS demo at CES and was surprised by their 11-speaker layout: typical 7 speakers at ear level plus 4 height speakers above. What happened to Neo:X wides?

I've always assumed the decision to give DTS Neo:X 11.1 a front height pair plus a front wide pair--rather than pairs of both front and rear heights--was based on a (DTS marketing) belief that Neo:X 11.1 would achieve higher acceptability and market penetration with that configuration. However, all subsequent "experimental|prototype" speaker configurations I've seen mentioned for 10.x|11.x|12.x [EDIT] from other vendors have been 7.1 Standard middle layer speaker layouts with 3, 4, or 5 upper layer speakers.
_
Edited by SoundChex - 1/10/13 at 5:05pm
post #1134 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

For the things that the 11 year old SPD-45HD (Lex MC-12HD) doesn't have: format decoding for HD audio codecs like TrueHD & DTS-HD MA, USB input, Ethernet control, Deep Colour and 3D pass through, etc.


Which raiseses the obvious question why Lexicon did not just add those features to the MC-12HD (and call it the MC-12HDX maybe) and let it carry them until the replacement is ready? How hard could it have been?
post #1135 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Went to the DTS demo at CES and was surprised by their 11-speaker layout: typical 7 speakers at ear level plus 4 height speakers above. What happened to Neo:X wides?
Which prepro were they using for the demo?
post #1136 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

The analogue output from the processor is what feeds your amps, so I'm not sure why you think that surround processing would be defeated. .

Because I had a momentary brain fart and I've been up and about since 4am smile.gif Regardless, the Oppo can be a prepro solution for some that don't require post processing and minimal sources.
post #1137 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Nielsen View Post

I thought the Oppo would be able to scale to 7.1
How? I don't think any of Oppo's Blu-ray players have surround processing build in.
post #1138 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

the Oppo can be a prepro solution for some that don't require post processing and minimal sources.
Sure, if you don't need the functionality of a pre-pro, then you don't need a pre-pro. The Oppo can be your pre (pre-amp), though not the pro (processor) part. As for using it as a pre-amp, do you know if the volume control is done in the analogue domain or digitally attenuated?
post #1139 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Which prepro were they using for the demo?
The back quarter of the DTS room looked like a pro sound set-up, mixing board and all. I don't think they were using any consumer gear.
post #1140 of 1296
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Sure, if you don't need the functionality of a pre-pro, then you don't need a pre-pro. The Oppo can be your pre (pre-amp), though not the pro (processor) part. As for using it as a pre-amp, do you know if the volume control is done in the analogue domain or digitally attenuated?

It's a little more than a preamp. It does have the ability to decode all curent hd codecs and an hdmi input. Not sure of the details of the volume control.
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