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Sony trade in Fat for Slim program? - Page 2

post #31 of 145
My 60 plays ps2 titles (which I own and use) so maybe if they give me a slim and 99$ I would consider it.
post #32 of 145
Or just buy a ps2 off craigslist for 20bux.
post #33 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

True but there should still be some kind of class action lawsuit or something. Otherwise these devices should have an estimated lifetime or something.

That's why they have a warranty period in which they fix or replace it for you. If you wanted it to have a longer warranty, you should have bought one from them (I think they sold a 3 year warranty). It's not like you're buying a server with a 10 year life expectancy, it's a video game console with a 1 year life expectancy. Mine is past 4 years old and I have no expectations that it'll last even another day (guess I better go backup today). I've gotten my moneys worth, I honestly am pretty shocked that Sony would let me swap it for a Slim and $99 if it dies, that's a pretty sweet deal.
post #34 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

True but there should still be some kind of class action lawsuit or something. Otherwise these devices should have an estimated lifetime or something.

So you are saying that everything you buy needs to last forever else the manufacturer need to replace it free of charge. Just be glad u didn't buy and Xbox with its 30%+ fail rate
post #35 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

It's my personal belief that the YLOD primary cause has been people putting the PS3 in entertainment centers and such with not enough cooling airspace. When I got my release 60GB that was how I first tried setting it up. after feeling how fricken hot the air was coming out of the unit I decided to move it to an open space shelf. My folks also have one and have not had a problem with either one..

And that's all it is, your personal belief based on a sample size of two. I guess if I had a personal belief based on my experience of YLOD then it would be that keeping the PS3 on an open wire shelf with more than 6 inches of ventilation on all sides causes YLOD...since that was my experience. Of course, my sample size is only 1.
post #36 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post

it's a video game console with a 1 year life expectancy. Mine is past 4 years old and I have no expectations that it'll last even another day (guess I better go backup today). I've gotten my moneys worth, I honestly am pretty shocked that Sony would let me swap it for a Slim and $99 if it dies, that's a pretty sweet deal.

I have a real problem with the logic that because an item has a 1yr warranty that it's "life expectancy" is only a year. By that logic I need to replace everything I own every year.

....ummm no.

This generation of consoles has an absolutely absurd failure rate that is totally unacceptable to me, and seeing statements like this above just baffles me but certainly explains why Companies are getting away with it in North America doesn't it. I prefer how Europe handles such things.

Geesh, Pay 600 bucks for a console only to last a year and pay Sony another hundred bucks for another one....and they are doing us a favor?
post #37 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post

That's why they have a warranty period in which they fix or replace it for you. If you wanted it to have a longer warranty, you should have bought one from them (I think they sold a 3 year warranty). It's not like you're buying a server with a 10 year life expectancy, it's a video game console with a 1 year life expectancy. Mine is past 4 years old and I have no expectations that it'll last even another day (guess I better go backup today). I've gotten my moneys worth, I honestly am pretty shocked that Sony would let me swap it for a Slim and $99 if it dies, that's a pretty sweet deal.

lol 3 year warranty still wouldn't have helped me this thing died after over 4 years of use for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by soutthpaw View Post

So you are saying that everything you buy needs to last forever else the manufacturer need to replace it free of charge. Just be glad u didn't buy and Xbox with its 30%+ fail rate

To me it seems like PS3 fail rates are even higher, possibly even 100%, it just takes longer than 360. If they put something on the label like "Expected Lifetime: 5000 hours of usage" or something like that (whatever the average number might be) then the users couldn't complain.

It's just not fair that the older devices such as NES, Genesis, Gameboy, etc mostly lasted forever, in fact mine all still work perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

I have a real problem with the logic that because an item has a 1yr warranty that it's "life expectancy" is only a year. By that logic I need to replace everything I own every year.

....ummm no.

This generation of consoles has an absolutely absurd failure rate that is totally unacceptable to me, and seeing statements like this above just baffles me but certainly explains why Companies are getting away with it in North America doesn't it. I prefer how Europe handles such things.

Geesh, Pay 600 bucks for a console only to last a year and pay Sony another hundred bucks for another one....and they are doing us a favor?

PS3 doesn't only last 1 year the average I hear is 2-3, but still I agree it's absurd. At least give the users a 2+ year warranty free with the system when you know its lifetime is so short.
post #38 of 145
I can confirm that Sony does offer the $99 slim deal for dead BD drives. The other option was to replace the 60GB for $130. (or it might have been repair I don't remember)
post #39 of 145
Okay..I have my launch 60gb phat that's been sitting in it's box for over a year after YLOD. I have the slim and it's working fine. I want to get rid of the phat..I'm sick of looking at it. I don't know whether to get another slim (which I have no need for), or send it in for another phat and sell that. Any opinions on how to get the most out of my old phat?

I'm thinking...

Trade it in for a slim and sell the slim, or get another phat and sell that. Which route would give me the most dough? Or is there another scenario I should be looking at?
post #40 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

Okay..I have my launch 60gb phat that's been sitting in it's box for over a year after YLOD. I have the slim and it's working fine. I want to get rid of the phat..I'm sick of looking at it. I don't know whether to get another slim (which I have no need for), or send it in for another phat and sell that. Any opinions on how to get the most out of my old phat?

I'm thinking...

Trade it in for a slim and sell the slim, or get another phat and sell that. Which route would give me the most dough? Or is there another scenario I should be looking at?

Selling the replacement phat would obviously get you more money.
post #41 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

To me it seems like PS3 fail rates are even higher, possibly even 100%, it just takes longer than 360.

If you wait long enough, everything has a 100% rate of failure.
post #42 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg
I can confirm that Sony does offer the $99 slim deal for dead BD drives. The other option was to replace the 60GB for $130. (or it might have been repair I don't remember)
Interesting, is this for any phat? I have a 80gig phat that lost a laser. It runs loud and hot, it always has. I may consider swapping for a slim with a new warranty.

I will send them an email and see.

And FYI. My first 360 lasted 13 months
My first ps3 lasted 13 months.

The difference, my 360 was used daily. The ps3 was used for the one blu ray I had that year, and 4 games.....and the laser died.
post #43 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post


Interesting, is this for any phat? I have a 80gig phat that lost a laser. It runs loud and hot, it always has. I may consider swapping for a slim with a new warranty.

I will send them an email and see.

And FYI. My first 360 lasted 13 months
My first ps3 lasted 13 months.

The difference, my 360 was used daily. The ps3 was used for the one blu ray I had that year, and 4 games.....and the laser died.

I believe this deal is only for 60gb and 20gb ps3s. For other models you might need to pay around $150 for repair/replace
post #44 of 145
can you send yours off the optical input stops working just curious because i found a really good deal on a slim 160 gb so have an extra ps3 now.
post #45 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by madturbosnake View Post

can you send yours off the optical input stops working just curious because i found a really good deal on a slim 160 gb so have an extra ps3 now.

If you're asking if you can get the $99 slim with a broken optical drive, then yes, that's what I'm doing. However, it only works if you have the original 60GB or 20GB. Otherwise you have to pay something like $130 for a replacement.
post #46 of 145
Whoever made the comparison with older systems to the current gen in terms of reliability and life expectancy needs to stop and think it through.

The reason why the NES, SNES, Sega, and old consoles last for so long is because unlike the PS3 and 36, they have less moving parts, therefore reducing the likelihood of failure.

To me, the fact you got 4+ years use of your system is commendable. $600/4 = $150/year

If you can't save up $150 a year but you have the time to bitch and moan on the internet about how "unfair" your First World Problem is, I have no idea what to say.........
post #47 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

Whoever made the comparison with older systems to the current gen in terms of reliability and life expectancy needs to stop and think it through.

The reason why the NES, SNES, Sega, and old consoles last for so long is because unlike the PS3 and 36, they have less moving parts, therefore reducing the likelihood of failure.

To me, the fact you got 4+ years use of your system is commendable. $600/4 = $150/year

If you can't save up $150 a year but you have the time to bitch and moan on the internet about how "unfair" your First World Problem is, I have no idea what to say.........

I'm not saying it's unfair that it died, I'm saying that it's unfair that they don't list an estimated lifetime for the system, like they do for TV lamps and other devices these days. PS3 doesn't really have more moving parts than the systems of the old days, except maybe the HDD and BD drive. The problem is not moving parts, the problem is parts that are much less reliable than the parts used in the older systems as well as inadequate cooling. They do it to cut costs and maximize profits. Imo, if you can't release an affordable console using solid and reliable parts, either downgrade its specs or wait until you can.
post #48 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post


I'm not saying it's unfair that it died, I'm saying that it's unfair that they don't list an estimated lifetime for the system, like they do for TV lamps and other devices these days. PS3 doesn't really have more moving parts than the systems of the old days, except maybe the HDD and BD drive.

So, it doesn't really have more moving parts... unless you count those expensive moving parts.

Quote:


The problem is not moving parts, the problem is parts that are much less reliable than the parts used in the older systems as well as inadequate cooling. They do it to cut costs and maximize profits.

I agree that it isn't just the moving parts, its that there is just a helluva lot more that can go wrong. I'm not saying that this excuses a poor lifespan, but it certainly is a factor.

Speaking of lifespans, besides the anecdotes, is there any real evidence on ps3 lifespans? I'm still on my first machine with no signs of trouble. It's difficult to say that a unit has an average lifespan when plenty of units are still going strong.


Quote:


Imo, if you can't release an affordable console using solid and reliable parts, either downgrade its specs or wait until you can.

Why bother? Despite all of the whining, people will line up in droves for the next generation of consoles, too.
post #49 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

So, it doesn't really have more moving parts... unless you count those expensive moving parts.

The HDD and BD Drive are rarely the cause of problems on the PS3, it's usually YLOD or GPU problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

I agree that it isn't just the moving parts, its that there is just a helluva lot more that can go wrong. I'm not saying that this excuses a poor lifespan, but it certainly is a factor.

Speaking of lifespans, besides the anecdotes, is there any real evidence on ps3 lifespans? I'm still on my first machine with no signs of trouble. It's difficult to say that a unit has an average lifespan when plenty of units are still going strong.

Well just from the mere fact that you can go on any PS3 hardware board, and just about every day you see a "OH NO YLOD" thread, and most of them seem to happen after about 2-3 years of use. Also, when I called Sony they asked me how long I had my PS3, and when I said since launch day, they seemed surprised at how long my PS3 lasted. So, while not hard proof, it's pretty convincing that PS3s have relatively short lifespans compared to other consoles, only beat by 360s AFAIK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

Why bother? Despite all of the whining, people will line up in droves for the next generation of consoles, too.

Well because all of these repairs and replacement PS3s are probably costing them some money, especially the ones under warranty. Plus, if they ever get hit with a class action lawsuit (which imo is completely warranted) then they could lose quite a bit of money. But beyond that, it's not very ethical to release a device that won't last long enough. Imo, a console should last, at minimum, the entire length of the gaming generation it was released in. Otherwise the lifetime is too short.
post #50 of 145
I just did the $99 exchange,sent in my 1/07 60gb that has had ylod 5 times within the last year.I've had it fixed through a 3rd party and the reflows wouldnt last so I got fed up and called sony to make the exchange.

I should receive my 120gb slim refurb on 2/2/11 I also ordered a 500gb seagate Hdd from amazon that i'am gonna swap out as soon as my system arrives..

I will say this, I loved my phat 60gb almost like a pet.. lol..It ran like a champ for 3.5 yrs and as soon as I got my first ylod on 5/10 it was all down hill from there.

It looked very nice in my audio rack because of its nice build.The slims seem like a toy incomparison but hey, at least i'am getting a functioning unit again and maybe I will learn to love the slim as I did with my 60gb..I will miss thee ol' gal..
post #51 of 145
oh btw the new ps3 you get has a 90 day warranty on it (doesn't affect your existing warranty if you have one still)
post #52 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

Well just from the mere fact that you can go on any PS3 hardware board, and just about every day you see a "OH NO YLOD" thread, and most of them seem to happen after about 2-3 years of use.

I didn't know ancedotes count for facts. How many PS3s were sold since launch up until PS3 phats were discontinued? How many of them actually had a failure out of # of PS3 phat sold? How many of these topics were new members? Even better, how well did they treat their system?

RE: moving parts. I didn't know we were ignoring fans. Last I check, they're a serious component of any hardware device. If the fan was to die, the rest of the system goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

Plus, if they ever get hit with a class action lawsuit (which imo is completely warranted) then they could lose quite a bit of money.

I don't disagree with you. A lawyer or lawyers would jump at any chance to get a piece of the pie for themselves so a class action lawsuit isn't unheard of. Would the consumers win that case? I don't think so. Will it cost Sony money? Yes, in legal fees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

But beyond that, it's not very ethical to release a device that won't last long enough. Imo, a console should last, at minimum, the entire length of the gaming generation it was released in. Otherwise the lifetime is too short.

I don't think it means what you think it means. How is it not ethical? You said that a game console should last "at minimum" the entire length of a gaming generation. How do you measure the length? What factors do you take into consideration? To me, 4 years is pretty accurate for gaming generations since I'm 25 and have gone through the NES (when I was 6?), SNES, N64, Gamecube/PS2, and Wii/PS3. 20 (rounded up) years/5 "generations" = 4 years on average.

On that topic too, I disagree with you on putting an "estimate lifespan" on the ps3 box cover or whatever. That would open up too many lawsuits for Sony if they were to claim their PS3 could last for 3-4 years and then suddenly, a pocketful of hardware failure out of the millions they've sold. They would lose money in that sense.

What we have with you, as our example, is an overzealous consumer with extremely high expectation with the inability to inform themselves with common sense and basic logic.

Yeah, what I'm saying is: "lawl u dumm"

tl;dr - **** breaks. get over it.
post #53 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

If you're asking if you can get the $99 slim with a broken optical drive, then yes, that's what I'm doing. However, it only works if you have the original 60GB or 20GB. Otherwise you have to pay something like $130 for a replacement.

ok thanks yeah i only have a 40gb guess im screwed for now, unless i pay the 130$.
post #54 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

I didn't know ancedotes count for facts. How many PS3s were sold since launch up until PS3 phats were discontinued? How many of them actually had a failure out of # of PS3 phat sold? How many of these topics were new members? Even better, how well did they treat their system?

Like I said, there isn't hard data on that, just observations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

RE: moving parts. I didn't know we were ignoring fans. Last I check, they're a serious component of any hardware device. If the fan was to die, the rest of the system goes.

Right, I didn't think of that, but out of everything that's probably the least likely thing to die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

I don't disagree with you. A lawyer or lawyers would jump at any chance to get a piece of the pie for themselves so a class action lawsuit isn't unheard of. Would the consumers win that case? I don't think so. Will it cost Sony money? Yes, in legal fees.

The systems, probably all of them, are defective hardware. There's documented proof of that. They weren't manufactured well, they used cheap parts, etc, it's all been proven. And those hardware flaws weren't fixed in the Slims either, btw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

I don't think it means what you think it means. How is it not ethical? You said that a game console should last "at minimum" the entire length of a gaming generation. How do you measure the length? What factors do you take into consideration? To me, 4 years is pretty accurate for gaming generations since I'm 25 and have gone through the NES (when I was 6?), SNES, N64, Gamecube/PS2, and Wii/PS3. 20 (rounded up) years/5 "generations" = 4 years on average.

I measure the length of a gaming generation as how long games are being released for the system, so normally 8-10 years. And that's my minimum for me to consider it good hardware. Even my dreamcast is still running just fine, and has been doing so for the last 12 years. My Genesis has been running perfectly since I bought it nearly 20 years ago. Both quality hardware. PS3, and even more so, 360s pale in comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

On that topic too, I disagree with you on putting an "estimate lifespan" on the ps3 box cover or whatever. That would open up too many lawsuits for Sony if they were to claim their PS3 could last for 3-4 years and then suddenly, a pocketful of hardware failure out of the millions they've sold. They would lose money in that sense.

estimated != guaranteed

That's what the warranty is for. It's guaranteed to work for a year, it's estimated to work for at least 2 or 3 years for most people depending on usage/care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

What we have with you, as our example, is an overzealous consumer with extremely high expectation with the inability to inform themselves with common sense and basic logic.

Yeah, what I'm saying is: "lawl u dumm"

tl;dr - **** breaks. get over it.

Not quality ****

I would be okay if my PS3 died in 2020. I'm not okay that it died in 2011. I'm pissed.
post #55 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

The systems, probably all of them, are defective hardware. There's documented proof of that. They weren't manufactured well, they used cheap parts, etc, it's all been proven. And those hardware flaws weren't fixed in the Slims either, btw.

"Documented proof" of defective hardware? If it's documented, would you please share the link?

Cheap parts? That's kind of vague. What parts were "proven" to be cheap?
post #56 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

Right, I didn't think of that, but out of everything that's probably the least likely thing to die.

Wrong. Fans are one of the most common parts that fails on any hardware. Think about it! Dust, dirt, debrises are dangerous for fans as they cause congestion and prevent the fan from operating under normal conditions. If the fan is trying to spin but can't, the fan will actually burn out and the rest follows. This is one of the things people need to take care with their PS3s in order to maintain the life of the system by clearing away the dusts on the air vents. If there's a blockage, air can't come through (in or out, doesn't matter), the system can't maintain the necessary temperature to prevent overheating!
This is one of the reasons why I don't agree with your "publishing the estimated lifespan of the PS3s" because there's far too many variables that can affect the accuracy of the number! Blu-ray drive could fail, t he laser disc reader could become inoperative, the HDD could become corrupted, the power adapter could become defective and send a surge through the system, et cetra, et cetra.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

The systems, probably all of them, are defective hardware. There's documented proof of that. They weren't manufactured well, they used cheap parts, etc, it's all been proven. And those hardware flaws weren't fixed in the Slims either, btw.

You can't just throw that out there and expect it to be accepted as is. Where is this proof? What documents are actually there? When we're talking about "documented," we're talking about actual reports right? Not an internet thread from Joe Nobody making claims from his garage with a hammer as his only tool?


Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

I measure the length of a gaming generation as how long games are being released for the system, so normally 8-10 years. And that's my minimum for me to consider it good hardware. Even my dreamcast is still running just fine, and has been doing so for the last 12 years. My Genesis has been running perfectly since I bought it nearly 20 years ago. Both quality hardware. PS3, and even more so, 360s pale in comparison.

Ok, you're asking for 8-10 years, which by the way is unreasonable, as the length of gaming generation per time. My counterpoint: my ps1 and ps2 both had hardware failure when I had them while my brother's ps2 is still going strong (awesome!). Same thing with my SNES. My SNES is still going without any problems whereas my friend SNES died like 2 years of ownership. What I'm trying to say is: your milage may vary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

estimated != guaranteed

That's what the warranty is for. It's guaranteed to work for a year, it's estimated to work for at least 2 or 3 years for most people depending on usage/care.

I don't recall saying that an estimation is the same as a guarantee. I don't even recall a warranty being a guarantee. I viewed any factory warranty as a "just in case" because typically most hardware that fails within the "warranty date" are definitely defective hardware.
Again, common sense and basic logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

I would be okay if my PS3 died in 2020. I'm not okay that it died in 2011. I'm pissed.

So you're expecting a system, which works not just as a video game system but also as a dvd/blu-ray, player to last you 15 years? Most computers (high end) don't last that long before parts (fan, cpu, gpu, rams, mobo, hdd, and power supply) need to get replaced. Unrealistic expectation leads to great disappointment.
post #57 of 145
Quote:


hey weren't manufactured well, they used cheap parts, etc, it's all been proven

Proof, please?
post #58 of 145
re: morphinapg

I'm realizing that my posts could possibly (and most likely) came across as attacks on him and that's inappropriate on my part, so I'm gonna just cnd.
post #59 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Like I said, there isn't hard data on that, just observations.


Right, I didn't think of that, but out of everything that's probably the least likely thing to die.


The systems, probably all of them, are defective hardware. There's documented proof of that. They weren't manufactured well, they used cheap parts, etc, it's all been proven. And those hardware flaws weren't fixed in the Slims either, btw.


I measure the length of a gaming generation as how long games are being released for the system, so normally 8-10 years. And that's my minimum for me to consider it good hardware. Even my dreamcast is still running just fine, and has been doing so for the last 12 years. My Genesis has been running perfectly since I bought it nearly 20 years ago. Both quality hardware. PS3, and even more so, 360s pale in comparison.


estimated != guaranteed

That's what the warranty is for. It's guaranteed to work for a year, it's estimated to work for at least 2 or 3 years for most people depending on usage/care.


Not quality ****

I would be okay if my PS3 died in 2020. I'm not okay that it died in 2011. I'm pissed.
Why don't you open up a genesis or dreamcast and then open up a ps3 and compare the complexity. Even if they manufacture the ps3 to have double the component reliability, if it has 20x more components, it will break 10x more often. It's the price you pay for technological progress. If you want the console to last 20 years, keep playing the Genesis.

If you want something to last for 10 years, buy something with a 10 year guarantee, otherwise you take your chances. If a car breaks down out of warranty, you have to pay to have it fixed, same with a console. Seems Sony's repair prices are reasonable. Fwiw, I would rather have my fat fixed than get a slim, I have some ps2 games I still play and like all of the usb ports and card readers. Plus it looks better on my server rack.
post #60 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post
If you want something to last for 10 years, buy something with a 10 year guarantee, otherwise you take your chances. If a car breaks down out of warranty, you have to pay to have it fixed, same with a console. Seems Sony's repair prices are reasonable.
I'd even go a step further and say that their "repairs" are downright phenomenal compared to other industries.

If I understand correctly, Sony will currently replace a 4 year old, out-of-warranty console with a new* slim version, for $99. I can't think of any other company that will let you trade in out-of-warranty merchandise for credit towards a new version.

Let's put this in perspective. For those that paid $600 for a fat PS3, they're getting a full replacement for less than 20% of their purchase price. That would be like swapping your $1000, 4-year-old, out-of-warranty refrigerator for a new one for only $166! If anyone knows of an appliance company offering that deal, please let me know!

And even those that only paid $400 for their fat machine are essentially getting a $200 credit towards the purchase of a new* machine. That would be like trading in a 2 year old out-of-warranty broken LCD tv to get 50% off of a new slimmer version.

For all the whining about how shoddy their consoles are (and I'd still love to see real numbers on average lifespan), I can't think of a single company with a better replacement policy for out-of-warranty merchandise than Sony currently has.

*refurbished is, for all intents and purposes, as good as new in this context.
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