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Sony trade in Fat for Slim program? - Page 3

post #61 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post
re: morphinapg

I'm realizing that my posts could possibly (and most likely) came across as attacks on him and that's inappropriate on my part, so I'm gonna just cnd.
I don't think calling "********" on a post that's obviously mostly "********" counts as an attack.
post #62 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post
*refurbished is, for all intents and purposes, as good as new in this context.
Not necessarily, plus, Sony has already made their money on the initial purchase, plus your $99 on these refurbished consoles. As long as the refurbishing process costs them less than $99, then they're making a profit.
post #63 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post
I don't think calling "********" on a post that's obviously mostly "********" counts as an attack.
It wasn't "********" maybe I overestimated the amount of "proof" (I'm looking for more detailed articles, all I can find are forum posts right now, although they all are consistent with each other) but the fact is people know exactly what components are at fault, why they are at fault, and exactly how to fix them. If it was just standard expected system failures over time there wouldn't be such an obvious pattern of the same components failing. It's because the hardware is faulty, and Sony used cheaper components in the manufacturing of PS3s. Also, Slim PS3s still have the same hardware problems as phat PS3s so you can expect them to start getting YLODs much more often in the next year or two.
post #64 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

Not necessarily, plus, Sony has already made their money on the initial purchase, plus your $99 on these refurbished consoles. As long as the refurbishing process costs them less than $99, then they're making a profit.

So what? That has nothing to do with the fact that Sony offers one of the best out-of-warranty exchange programs in just about any industry. Find me a single out-of-warranty exchange program that's better - in any industry.

But first find us that "documented proof" of defective hardware and "proven" poor manufacturing and cheap parts that you were rambling on about.

Quote:


It wasn't "********" maybe I overestimated the amount of "proof" (I'm looking for more detailed articles, all I can find are forum posts right now, although they all are consistent with each other) but the fact is people know exactly what components are at fault, why they are at fault, and exactly how to fix them. If it was just standard expected system failures over time there wouldn't be such an obvious pattern of the same components failing. It's because the hardware is faulty, and Sony used cheaper components in the manufacturing of PS3s. Also, Slim PS3s still have the same hardware problems as phat PS3s so you can expect them to start getting YLODs much more often in the next year or two.

Emphasis mine. Just because you keep repeating it, doesn't make it true. What hardware is faulty? What are the cheaper components?
post #65 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

Emphasis mine. Just because you keep repeating it, doesn't make it true. What hardware is faulty? What are the cheaper components?

Off the top of my head I couldn't tell you specifics, but I have read posts and articles that explain the details. I just can't seem to find them right now. All I can remember right now is that they use cheap solder and thermal paste which causes the majority of problems leading to YLOD as well as the motherboards are often improperly seated which causes warping. I know there are others but I can't think of them right now.
post #66 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post


Off the top of my head I couldn't tell you specifics, but I have read posts and articles that explain the details. I just can't seem to find them right now. All I can remember right now is that they use cheap solder and thermal paste which causes the majority of problems leading to YLOD as well as the motherboards are often improperly seated which causes warping. I know there are others but I can't think of them right now.

So instead of providing proof for your original clams, you provide even more claims that are even more specific. Please stop. Unless you can provide evidence*, your claims are worthless.

*evidence does not equal postings on message boards.
post #67 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

So instead of providing proof for your original clams, you provide even more claims that are even more specific. Please stop. Unless you can provide evidence*, your claims are worthless.

*evidence does not equal postings on message boards.

Why do you think I was reluctant to say any more specifics *sigh*

While I believe the forum posts are credible enough, I have not posted them because I knew they wouldn't be taken as proof enough here. The people that post the details on the causes of YLOD are experienced in repairing them and therefore know why they happen, and know that the causes are consistently similar due to flawed hardware design.
post #68 of 145
The solder used in the PS3 and xbox 360 are lead free. Hence these products are sold as 'toys' to children, can't have lead in the solder if the kids want to eat the mobo.

I have a re-balled xbox 360 with lead solder and artic 5 thermal paste. 12v fan mod plus an extra fan on the gpu heat sink. No rrod for 3yrs, played everyday at least 4-5 hrs.

The problem is these lead free solders will lose it's strength over time. The ps3 runs at a certain temp and they run hot over time the solder will fail due to the fact of the heat.

Adding the case is small and fan speed isn't fully utilized everything in there is baking.
post #69 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Injected Sin View Post

The solder used in the PS3 and xbox 360 are lead free. Hence these products are sold as 'toys' to children, can't have lead in the solder if the kids want to eat the mobo.

lol, but seriously, are PS3's sold as toys? If so that's crazy.
post #70 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

lol, but seriously, are PS3's sold as toys? If so that's crazy.

Not that crazy if you want to get technical about it.
post #71 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

Why do you think I was reluctant to say any more specifics *sigh*

Reluctant to say any more? That's exactly what you did! Your original claim was about vague "defective hardware" and "cheap parts". Fine. You were asked for proof of your claims. Rather than backing them up, you got more specific; "cheap solder", "thermal paste", and "improperly seated" motherboards. Unless you were planning on naming the brand of solder and paste, I'm not sure that there was much left to be reluctant to talk about.

Quote:


While I believe the forum posts are credible enough, I have not posted them because I knew they wouldn't be taken as proof enough here. The people that post the details on the causes of YLOD are experienced in repairing them and therefore know why they happen, and know that the causes are consistently similar due to flawed hardware design.

So when you say "documented proof" and "proven" cheap parts, what you really mean is "stuff I read from strangers on the internet". Got it.
post #72 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

Not that crazy if you want to get technical about it.

And if it's true then the "cheap solder" (if that actually is a problem) isn't a result of Sony's "cheapness", but far more likely government regulations.
post #73 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaint bucket View Post

Not that crazy if you want to get technical about it.

Toys are things specifically made for kids. Game consoles, while can be enjoyed by kids, are marketed towards adults, at least more so now than they have been in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

Reluctant to say any more? That's exactly what you did! Your original claim was about vague "defective hardware" and "cheap parts". Fine. You were asked for proof of your claims. Rather than backing them up, you got more specific; "cheap solder", "thermal paste", and "improperly seated" motherboards. Unless you were planning on naming the brand of solder and paste, I'm not sure that there was much left to be reluctant to talk about.

I was reluctant to say any more without proof, but then I kept getting pestered about it so I had to say something. Somebody asked specifically what about the hardware was faulty, so I responded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

So when you say "documented proof" and "proven" cheap parts, what you really mean is "stuff I read from strangers on the internet". Got it.

No that's not what I meant. That's simply all I can find at the moment. I've read other more credible reports and articles, but unfortunately I can't find them right now.
post #74 of 145
[IMG][/IMG]
post #75 of 145
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

I'd even go a step further and say that their "repairs" are downright phenomenal compared to other industries.

If I understand correctly, Sony will currently replace a 4 year old, out-of-warranty console with a new* slim version, for $99. I can't think of any other company that will let you trade in out-of-warranty merchandise for credit towards a new version.

Let's put this in perspective. For those that paid $600 for a fat PS3, they're getting a full replacement for less than 20% of their purchase price. That would be like swapping your $1000, 4-year-old, out-of-warranty refrigerator for a new one for only $166! If anyone knows of an appliance company offering that deal, please let me know!

And even those that only paid $400 for their fat machine are essentially getting a $200 credit towards the purchase of a new* machine. That would be like trading in a 2 year old out-of-warranty broken LCD tv to get 50% off of a new slimmer version.

For all the whining about how shoddy their consoles are (and I'd still love to see real numbers on average lifespan), I can't think of a single company with a better replacement policy for out-of-warranty merchandise than Sony currently has.

*refurbished is, for all intents and purposes, as good as new in this context.

ummm, no

For starters. It's not 200 bucks towards a NEW machine, its refurbed. And the offer I was given to replace my 80gig when the laser died was $193 Canadian for a refurbed unit. Cost of unit/shipping/tax.

Next, you can't honestly believe the fridge comparison? If I buy a fridge from company X. And the fridge dies...I get another fridge from company X or if you are half intelligent at all you do not buy a fridge from company X again since it died, instead you go with another brand ( an option gamers do not have unless you want to render your existing gaming content useless and go with another console). I put food in my fridge. Company x or y doesn't make any money off of my food.

Sony makes money off of games. Owners with broken PS3's aren't buying games, DLC, video's etc. They aren't repairing broken ps3's out of the kindness of their hearts. They are making off of it, AND making money off of the content purchased by said owner for said system until the next one breaks....and Sony makes more money off of another "repair" ...rinse repeat. If they didn't at least repair it, we would go to company "Y".

Honestly, I am amazed at how easily accepted the failure of this generation is by people. Consumers in this day and age have just turned into "suckers" and we are paying through the @#$@# for it.

And, as far as I know, most electronics do not use lead solder anymore. These consoles are dying because they are poorly designed......heat issues...imagine that. All that CPU/GPU crammed into a small box = heat. But consumers demand small box's.
post #76 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

ummm, no

For starters. It's not 200 bucks towards a NEW machine, its refurbed.

If you look at my post, you'll see my footnote. I completely understand it's refurbished. In many cases, refurbished machines are good as new. There may be a cosmetic flaw here or there, but the guts are most-likely new. Po-TA-to, po-TAH-to. Frankly, it doesn't change my argument; you're trading in a broken out-of-warranty unit and getting a fixed unit in return for a fantastic price.

Quote:


And the offer I was given to replace my 80gig when the laser died was $193 Canadian for a refurbed unit. Cost of unit/shipping/tax.

That's why I prefaced my post with "If I understand correctly". I'm happy to be corrected. I was specifically addressing the units mentioned earlier that are replaced with slims for $99 (American). Which ones are those?

Quote:


Next, you can't honestly believe the fridge comparison? If I buy a fridge from company X. And the fridge dies...I get another fridge from company X or if you are half intelligent at all you do not buy a fridge from company X again since it died, instead you go with another brand ( an option gamers do not have unless you want to render your existing gaming content useless and go with another console). I put food in my fridge. Company x or y doesn't make any money off of my food.

That's the problem with analogies. They will always break down if you take them far enough. Don't like fridges? Use your own analogy. The fact is that the $99 replacement for out-of-warranty product is a better deal then you'd get with any other type of product.

(As a matter of fact, just search these forums and you'll find plenty of people who purchased new PS3s knowing full well of the YLOD issues that many have complained about. These people even went so far as to purchase after-market guarantees! Sony's unofficial out-of-warranty replacement on fatties is actually a better deal than after-market plans. It's cheaper, you only have to pay if you use it (unlike a paid gaurantee that you pay upfront, regardless if you need it) and as of yet, it has no expiration!)

Quote:


Sony makes money off of games. Owners with broken PS3's aren't buying games, DLC, video's etc. They aren't repairing broken ps3's out of the kindness of their hearts. They are making off of it, AND making money off of the content purchased by said owner for said system until the next one breaks....and Sony makes more money off of another "repair" ...rinse repeat. If they didn't at least repair it, we would go to company "Y".

No you wouldn't. You'd buy a brand new one for the same reason you paid almost $200 for a refurb - you don't want to render your entire gaming content useless - and Sony would make even more money. It's either worth it to switch or it's not. Don't be mad at Sony because YOU put more value into their console than you should.

Quote:


Honestly, I am amazed at how easily accepted the failure of this generation is by people.

And what is the failure rate of this generation? It seems that there's an awful lot of bellyaching, but still no actual evidence of PS3s lifespan. Anecdotes are hardly evidence, but my unit is still running strong after 3 years.

Quote:


Consumers in this day and age have just turned into "suckers" and we are paying through the @#$@# for it.

Talk about suckers...I just heard about this guy who shelled out an additional $193 Canadian for a refurbished unit when his 80gig - which was less than 4 years old - died! lol!! And he admits that this one will probably break too! Thanks to guys like him, Sony's laughing all the way to the bank

But seriously, "suckers", "shills","corporate stooges"... I've heard them all. These are the words that get tossed around on a regular basis in these forums at anyone who dares to not be outraged by Sony. :::shrug:::

Quote:


And, as far as I know, most electronics do not use lead solder anymore. These consoles are dying because they are poorly designed......heat issues...imagine that. All that CPU/GPU crammed into a small box = heat. But consumers demand small box's.

Yeah we heard it already. Poorly designed. Cheap solder. It's been proven and documented. blah, blah, blah. Maybe you can give morphinapg a hand finding some real evidence of this.
post #77 of 145
Here's some concrete evidence for you--my 60GB fat, kept in a closed entertainment center behind speaker cloth, is still going strong after 4+ years after almost daily use.
post #78 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

Here's some concrete evidence for you--my 60GB fat, kept in a closed entertainment center behind speaker cloth, is still going strong after 4+ years after almost daily use.

You are an idiot and are very lucky. How many hours per day would you say you play PS3? Either you hardly play it at all or you are just plain very lucky. I guarantee it will die one day because all PS3s do, and leaving it in the condition you are is just asking for it.
post #79 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

You are an idiot and are very lucky. How many hours per day would you say you play PS3? Either you hardly play it at all or you are just plain very lucky. I guarantee it will die one day because all PS3s do, and leaving it in the condition you are is just asking for it.

I guarantee that you will die one day. So, there.


Actually, the entertainment center is open in the back, and, as I stated above, the front is covered only with speaker cloth (my center channel is on the shelf above my PS3). There is about 4 inches of space on either side of the PS3 and about 7 inches of space above it. I vacuum it regularly. So, I am neither an idiot, nor very lucky (apart from being excruciatingly handsome and astonishingly talented).
post #80 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

I guarantee that you will die one day. So, there.


Actually, the entertainment center is open in the back, and, as I stated above, the front is covered only with speaker cloth (my center channel is on the shelf above my PS3). There is about 4 inches of space on either side of the PS3 and about 7 inches of space above it. I vacuum it regularly. So, I am neither an idiot, nor very lucky (apart from being excruciatingly handsome and astonishingly talented).

You made it sound like it was very badly ventilated, and it still does sound badly ventilated, just not AS bad as you implied. Still it will die, and it will be sooner than you expect, guaranteed.
post #81 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

You made it sound like it was very badly ventilated, and it still does sound badly ventilated, just not AS bad as you implied. Still it will die, and it will be sooner than you expect, guaranteed.

Sooner than I expect, "guaranteed?" According to you, all PS3s are ticking timebombs of cheap parts poorly assembled. So, wouldn't the fact that it's already lasted over four years mean that I'm playing with house money? If it dies at this point, I'll just ship it off to Sony for a $99 Slim. OH NOES!!!!!!!


But, since you are so concerned, this Fat will soon be swapped out with the Slim in my bedroom with the brand new 500GB HD. The Fat can live on top of my dresser for boudoir movie watching with the wife and kidlet.
post #82 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

You are an idiot and are very lucky. How many hours per day would you say you play PS3? Either you hardly play it at all or you are just plain very lucky. I guarantee it will die one day because all PS3s do, and leaving it in the condition you are is just asking for it.

Or you're vastly overestimating the issue. Mine is also 4+ years old and fine.
post #83 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

Sooner than I expect, "guaranteed?" According to you, all PS3s are ticking timebombs of cheap parts poorly assembled. So, wouldn't the fact that it's already lasted over four years mean that I'm playing with house money? If it dies at this point, I'll just ship it off to Sony for a $99 Slim. OH NOES!!!!!!!


But, since you are so concerned, this Fat will soon be swapped out with the Slim in my bedroom with the brand new 500GB HD. The Fat can live on top of my dresser for boudoir movie watching with the wife and kidlet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobzdar View Post

Or you're vastly overestimating the issue. Mine is also 4+ years old and fine.

I'd like to let you both know that my PS3 lasted over 4 years and just died now. Also, it was in perfect condition, ventilated as best as possible, and played nearly every day as well. PS3's are ticking time bombs and we 3 are quite lucky to have a ps3 that lasted this long. Most last 2-3 years before they die.
post #84 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post

I'd like to let you both know that my PS3 lasted over 4 years and just died now. Also, it was in perfect condition, ventilated as best as possible, and played nearly every day as well. PS3's are ticking time bombs and we 3 are quite lucky to have a ps3 that lasted this long. Most last 2-3 years before they die.

"Most?"



I think if "most" lasted 2-3 years, meaning most of the PS3s on the market would currently be dead, you'd be able to find something other than random forum posts about it. Don't you?

But, you know.....keep shoveling. This is much more entertaining that month end close.
post #85 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post


I'd like to let you both know that my PS3 lasted over 4 years and just died now. Also, it was in perfect condition, ventilated as best as possible, and played nearly every day as well. PS3's are ticking time bombs and we 3 are quite lucky to have a ps3 that lasted this long.

You mean "we 4". I'm still here and my console is going strong.

Quote:


Most last 2-3 years before they die.

"most"? You're not STILL basing everything you know on forum posts, are you?
post #86 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post

"Most?"



I think if "most" lasted 2-3 years, meaning most of the PS3s on the market would currently be dead, you'd be able to find something other than random forum posts about it. Don't you?

But, you know.....keep shoveling. This is much more entertaining that month end close.

No, most ps3s wouldn't be dead, because

#1 people would replace them via Sony

#2 not everyone got a ps3 at launch

and yes I do believe that most launch ps3s are in fact dead by now.

This is from countless observations every day for the last 2+ years. Every. Single. Day. Someone is posting on the PS3 boards saying their PS3 died. Every. Single. Day. And nearly every time that PS3 worked for about 2-3 years. It may not be proof enough for you, but it's damn well proof enough for me. Obviously Sony wouldn't release those stats as they'd be embarrassing for them. And like I said the people on those boards know why the PS3s die most of the time (bad solder, bad thermal paste, mobo warping, etc) and they know those causes because the ps3s that die are consistently dieing of the same symptoms, because they were made with cheap parts.
post #87 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespaguy View Post

"most"? You're not STILL basing everything you know on forum posts, are you?

Not everything. Like I said before I've seen articles and documents before that had more concrete proof but unfortunately I can't find them anymore. And obviously Sony wouldn't release those stats as it'd make them look bad. The only stats you're going to get are from independent ps3 repair companies and online forum posts. That's all you can rely on, since Sony has not and will not release those stats.
post #88 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
No, most ps3s wouldn't be dead, because

#1 people would replace them via Sony

#2 not everyone got a ps3 at launch

and yes I do believe that most launch ps3s are in fact dead by now.

This is from countless observations every day for the last 2+ years. Every. Single. Day. Someone is posting on the PS3 boards saying their PS3 died. Every. Single. Day. And nearly every time that PS3 worked for about 2-3 years. It may not be proof enough for you, but it's damn well proof enough for me. Obviously Sony wouldn't release those stats as they'd be embarrassing for them. And like I said the people on those boards know why the PS3s die most of the time (bad solder, bad thermal paste, mobo warping, etc) and they know those causes because the ps3s that die are consistently dieing of the same symptoms, because they were made with cheap parts.

You do understand that most people don't post on message boards. And, certainly most people don't post on message boards that their PS3s don't have any issues. Of the 20 people I know with PS3s, I am the only one who ever bothers to go to ANY message board related to PS3s. Of those 20, a grand total of TWO have had an issue with their PS3s. In four years. One of them failed within a month, so it was obviously a lemon.

But, your empirical data of "looking at message boards daily" is truly fascinating. What else do you read on the internet that you take as fact?
post #89 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by morphinapg View Post
Like I said before I've seen articles and documents before that had more concrete proof but unfortunately I can't find them anymore.
Yep. And Joe McCarthy had a list, too....
post #90 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassmonkeee View Post
You do understand that most people don't post on message boards. And, certainly most people don't post on message boards that their PS3s don't have any issues. Of the 20 people I know with PS3s, I am the only one who ever bothers to go to ANY message board related to PS3s. Of those 20, a grand total of TWO have had an issue with their PS3s. In four years. One of them failed within a month, so it was obviously a lemon.

But, your empirical data of "looking at message boards daily" is truly fascinating. What else do you read on the internet that you take as fact?
While not everyone who has a ps3 visits message boards, the message boards clearly do represent the entire userbase of PS3s. And yes, people do go on message boards even when nothing is wrong just to discuss the system and its games. Most threads have nothing to do with the condition of their system, but the vast number of people having ps3s dieing with identical causes on these boards is an obvious indicator of their short lifespan. If it was fewer threads wth most of them having nothing in common I could see how you think they were insignificant, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

Like I said before, it's about as much proof as you're going to get short of Sony releasing stats (as they wouldn't do as it would open the door for so many lawsuits). What else do you expect?
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