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The Lord Of The Rings Extended - Page 54

post #1591 of 5278
6/16/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunddal View Post
The left and the middle are both from the same photo that Bill took when comparing the two side by side on his computer.
So, what? He took two photos of a computer monitor with a digital camera in auto mode which resulted in two different exposures. That is complete and utter fail, and totally useless as a basis for any argument.
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post #1592 of 5278
6/16/11 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkak View Post
Well given what the pro reviewers and the people who watched the new screenings are saying I am still not convinced the green screens caps we are seeing are how the discs actually look. Are the caps from the Thailand discs done by a person known to make accurate caps? Or is it just more random stuff from the interwebs? Are there caps available from a known and trusted person yet?
There is no such thing as a "pro" bluray reviewer. Will you people please stop saying this?
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post #1593 of 5278
6/16/11 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penman View Post
My point was that Bill was spending an awful lot of time defending his process when he could have been reviewing the discs in some detail. When you talk process it means you don't want to talk product.

But let's let Bill Hunt speak for himself, from HDD:
I'm with Bill.
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post #1594 of 5278
6/16/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strevlac View Post
There is no such thing as a "pro" bluray reviewer. Will you people please stop saying this?
It's not that hard to define one: someone who has done it for a long time (perhaps even for money), has a lot of experience in display and video technology, and knows what he's talking about?

If I reviewed the LOTR set, I definitely wouldn't qualify as a "pro reviewer."

I guess what "pro" connotes is "reliable."
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post #1595 of 5278
6/16/11 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Punkak View Post
Well given what the pro reviewers and the people who watched the new screenings are saying I am still not convinced the green screens caps we are seeing are how the discs actually look. Are the caps from the Thailand discs done by a person known to make accurate caps? Or is it just more random stuff from the interwebs? Are there caps available from a known and trusted person yet?
It's not just one person posting captures, the full discs are online in places that traffic in such things. Teal push is not really a capture error that's easy to make from my experience doing caps, and if the captures were done improperly, someone would have likely noticed that by now. Unless the Asian discs are not the same as the North American ones, which is a remote possibility considering this is WB, I'd bet money on the teal push really being on the disc.
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post #1596 of 5278
6/16/11 at 1:40pm
It would be cool if Oliver klohs could chime in
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post #1597 of 5278
6/16/11 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post
Someone give me a list of reviewers that don't get comp'd(free) releases from the studios. There very well may be but they are few and far between.
Ralph gets free releases, is he suspect too now or are you afraid that if you accuse him that you'll get banned from AVS?
Ralph and most every other reviewer don't use accolades like "suffice it to say that I am still awe of their sheer power, depth, scope and splendor. It's my opinion that The Lord of the Rings Trilogy, in this long form, is an achievement unmatched in the history of cinema."

Bill Hunt got his screener first, and put out his review within a few hours, calling it the greatest achievement in the history of cinema, but completely sidestepping any mention of what the change in color timing actually looks like. Some would say that is somewhat suspect.
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post #1598 of 5278
6/16/11 at 2:10pm
CochiseGuy, Bill's hyperbole was a reference to the Extended Cuts of the LOTR as films. It was not a specific reference to the new blu rays. He was trying to convey how much he loves the Extended Cuts of these films.
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post #1599 of 5278
6/16/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

So, what? He took two photos of a computer monitor with a digital camera in auto mode which resulted in two different exposures. That is complete and utter fail, and totally useless as a basis for any argument.

It's not two photos.

Go back and see the original image earlier in this thread. It's from the same photo with the screenshot and PowerDVD placed next to each other on the same monitor at the same time.
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post #1600 of 5278
6/16/11 at 2:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunddal View Post


It's not two photos.

Go back and see the original image earlier in this thread. It's from the same photo with the screenshot and PowerDVD placed next to each other on the same monitor at the same time.

Exactly. Regardless of what his camera's doing, or even what this specific monitor is doing, it at least shows the RELATIVE DIFFERENCE between the two caps: i.e., that the dump caps are not representative of the product. All you regraders could then regrade the entire image to match the dump image in Hunt's picture to the dump image "by itself" and then, the relative differences still being a constant, you'd have an approximation of the actual product. Still only an approximation, of course, but one that would nonetheless still show, as we all should know damn well by now, that these overly-cyan'ed caps that started this all are as overblown as the reaction to it.

I'll take your comments off the air.
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post #1601 of 5278
6/16/11 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

It's not just one person posting captures, the full discs are online in places that traffic in such things. Teal push is not really a capture error that's easy to make from my experience doing caps, and if the captures were done improperly, someone would have likely noticed that by now. Unless the Asian discs are not the same as the North American ones, which is a remote possibility considering this is WB, I'd bet money on the teal push really being on the disc.

Ok thanks.

It's just that I'm trying to grab onto something, anything, that will give me hope that these discs are not the green nightmare I'm seeing in those caps!!
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post #1602 of 5278
6/16/11 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

It would be cool if Oliver kolas could chime in

Is he "pro"?



(lol sorry!)
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post #1603 of 5278
6/16/11 at 2:40pm
And a quick couple notes: 1) I'm not saying that the snow won't still have a cast to it, just that it's not going to be aquamarine like the dump caps; 2) As a Minnesotan, I can tell you that snow almost never appears "pure white": like water, it refracts light and under many circumstances appears to the eye to have a slight tint (and not because a dog pissed on it); 3) Watching "Life" (BBC) with my son today on my calibrated 60" LCD, I noticed that many of the shots with snow on mountains, etc. had snow with...yep, an ever-slight but definitely noticeable cyan tinge. FWIW.
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post #1604 of 5278
6/16/11 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Well, there's the rub ... screenshots from who knows where compared to a reviewer who has watched the released Blu-rays.

Jeff

You are not paying attention. We now have screen captures from multiple DIFFERENT sources and some of them are from the US (Region A) discs. THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME.

I posted this test earlier. Maybe you missed it.

Watch this video, which was created from a Region A copy of the actual discs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDfw6LfdaE

Does that look OK to you? Good color?

Now go compare it to this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwcm-73kZE8

The left side of that split-screen video is the EE Blu-ray and the right side is the theatrical edition Blu-ray. Surely the teal tint on the left side in that split-screen video is far worse than what you saw in the first video, right?

WRONG... the teal tint is the SAME in both videos. Pause the first video at the 35 second mark and compare the sky behind Gandalf's head to the sky in the second video (paused at about the 37 second mark). The teal color shift MATCHES.

And it's godawful ugly! This is NOT what the movies are supposed to look like and nobody is going to convince me that Peter Jackson approved this teal/green/cyan tint. He may have approved some kind of color shift, but it won't turn out to be this one.

Mark
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post #1605 of 5278
6/16/11 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerknowledge View Post

And a quick couple notes: 1) I'm not saying that the snow won't still have a cast to it, just that it's not going to be aquamarine like the dump caps; 2) As a Minnesotan, I can tell you that snow almost never appears "pure white": like water, it refracts light and under many circumstances appears to the eye to have a slight tint (and not because a dog pissed on it); 3) Watching "Life" (BBC) with my son today on my calibrated 60" LCD, I noticed that many of the shots with snow on mountains, etc. had snow with...yep, an ever-slight but definitely noticeable cyan tinge. FWIW.

I'm from Chicago, and I currently live in Utah. I know as much about how snow looks as a polar bear. Snow NEVER looks as green as the caps have shown. Pure white...maybe not all the time, but it always looks white to me.
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post #1606 of 5278
6/16/11 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

Watch this video, which was created from a Region A copy of the actual discs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDfw6LfdaE

Does that look OK to you? Good color?


I've just watched this sample for the first time.
I'm still wondering why on earth they decided to increase the contrast
that much?...the TE has much more shadow detail....huge difference.
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post #1607 of 5278
6/16/11 at 3:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunddal View Post

It's not two photos. Go back and see the original image earlier in this thread. It's from the same photo with the screenshot and PowerDVD placed next to each other on the same monitor at the same time.

OK. I had only seen the cropped version earlier, and it certainly looked like there were two photos. It is not concrete proof, however: one image is viewed in a web browser while another is in PowerDVD. Who can tell me what video settings were used in PowerDVD and display card's drivers? I would not be surprised if PowerDVD was in its default Vivid mode.

And here's a funny thing: match exposures of the left and the middle photo in Photoshop... and the middle one is actually greener (is cyaner a word?) than the left one. Heh. All this just goes to show that taking photos of the computer display is not the way to go.


Exposures (almost) matched with a single Photoshop brightness tool in less than 30 seconds.
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post #1608 of 5278
6/16/11 at 4:18pm
and to think I was about to sale the theatrical version.
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post #1609 of 5278
6/16/11 at 4:40pm
Comparison.
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post #1610 of 5278
6/16/11 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BsRoz View Post

Comparison.

Holy blank! That capture of Boromir says it all.
Puke!
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post #1611 of 5278
6/16/11 at 4:52pm
wow, this is like the star wars thread. so much contentiousness and emotion over director approved changes.

hell i have no idea if they screwed up these ee bd and i won't until they're released for retail sale.

then we'll have a consensus on whether they are reference quality or not.
if not, will only rent them from bb

so if pj wants to make some moola, he had better not screw these up.
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post #1612 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:00pm
From Blubrew.com's review:

Quote:
With such a big release there is always room for some controversy, and in this case it’s colour/grading – a newly discovered form of revisionism if you will. The Fellowship of the Ring looks different on this extended release, sometimes wildly different. The strong red hues of the theatrical version have been replaced by a stronger green/teal palette – which might not always look as natural as it should. In some cases even, the gamma- and white-levels are affected to such a degree, that detail starts to diminish (here and here for example).

With forums becoming a place of heated debate over the film’s palette, however, let us make it clear that the good here greatly outweighs the bad. Yes, at certain points a teal tint very visibly intrudes the image – but this effect does not last throughout the entire film, and in quite a few cases the new grading offers an improvement over the sometimes equally questionable, muddy palette of the theatrical versions. In any case, the film’s feel does not suffer substantially from these changes. While we at BluBrew believe that screengrabs are usually a very good indicator of the actual quality of a disc, a debate based on incorrectly taken grabs – or even grabs from ripped video files – simply does not ‘compute’. We have been relatively harsh on Warner in the past, and we would have been equally harsh if this release was the disaster some make it out to be – which it simply isn’t.

And they have some illustrative comparative grabs, four of which look atrociously greened with Transformer turquoise skies/snow, the rest of which appear fine.
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post #1613 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:06pm
I think you have to watch / review the EE BDs as if you never saw the TE BDs.

But I'm not sure that's possible
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post #1614 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penman View Post

From Blubrew.com's review:



And they have some illustrative comparative grabs, four of which look atrociously greened with Transformer turquoise skies/snow, the rest of which appear fine.

Yep looks like only certain scenes have the green effect and it does not run through the entire movie. While I'm sure this ticks off some people it is not the disaster alot of people are making it out to be.
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post #1615 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BsRoz View Post

Comparison.

Well I guess that's it then, it really is "The Fellowship of the Green."
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post #1616 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbddvm View Post

Holy blank! That capture of Boromir says it all.
Puke!

I agree. Nothing I have seen so far has changed my mind and these comparison shots reinforce that.......this new coloring is ugly IMO I want the coloring I have been viewing for years on my EE DVDs!
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post #1617 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:35pm
For me, nothing will date this movie faster than seeing those late 1990s-early oughts teal skies over Middle Earth. They might as well add the "My Hobbit Will Go On" song by Celine Dion during the credits.

Let's hope that when Lord of the Rings: The Complete Quintology is released ca. 2015, this will be fixed.

On the bright side, seeing improvement like the following makes me real excited to see the EEs: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/58250
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post #1618 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:55pm
If the EE is Fellowship of the Green, then the TE is Fellowship of the Orange. Because an awful lot of the Bluebrew caps have an orange tint to them, where the EE have a much more natural coloring IMO.

Here's just one example:

http://blubrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/f15.jpg (Looks like a sepia filter on this shot TE)

http://blubrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/f16.jpg (More natural color tones on this EE image I think)

There are several other shots that exhibit the same behavior on the TE and look to me at least, just as unnatural as the green shots posted lately. Don't remember the same discussion on the TE regarding color grading though.

I wouldn't be surprised though if it's a style choice. Even the EE DVD edition box is colored, you guessed it, green. And to my memory the most frequently attributed color in marketing materials or anything with Fellowship was green. TT was the color red and ROTK was blue for the EE DVD sets.
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post #1619 of 5278
6/16/11 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BsRoz View Post

Comparison.

A good, honest review that takes into account the topic of the day! Thanks for the link.

I, however, disagree with the reviewer over the importance and impact of the color shift. The teal color shift is flat out unappealing and ruins the mood of many scenes. Further, the reviewer justifies accepting the "bad" because of the "good" to be found in the transfer. I say that's BS. A movie this important being released in a 15-disc (expensive) set shouldn't have ANY significant issues. We should get the improved sharpness & detail, AND a color balance that replicates the way we've been watching it for years.

Mark
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post #1620 of 5278
6/16/11 at 6:14pm
I posted these at blu-ray.com forums, figured I'd post them here too (though it seems like most people are at both places):
Using that white transition as a reference point, I put a bunch of screencaps in one image and applied the same white-balance to them.
I really get the feeling PJ's new color grading and the new teal coloration are separate phenomena.

original caps: http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/5...iginallotr.jpg
balanced to that white transition: http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/3...lancedlotr.jpg

original: http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/7521/originallotr2.jpg
balanced: http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/864/balancedlotr2.jpg
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