The Lord Of The Rings Extended - Page 56

Worst case scenario: I buy it and the green bothers me and I spend hours re-encoding the entire film with theatrical-color and contrast.

Best case scenario: I buy it and don't bother doing anything and some day Warner re-issues theatrical-color FOTR discs in an exchange program.

Either way, I'm buying it! LOTR marathon at my house!

Well, the best place to start is by going to the fade to white scene just before frodo wakes up in rivendell. Then you need to start changing the RGB (Red,Green,Blue) settings and make that scene white. I've personally found that you have to remove the green by roughly the same amount that you have to boost the blue and leave the red as it is. Once you've got this scene looking white, you're good to go. The RGB should be correct to remove the strong green tint from the whole film and you can go enjoy a beautifully shot film with the colours it was meant to have.

Basically the fotr extended edition blu-ray as it is has too much green and too little blue.

But the green tint doesn't seem to be constant throughout the entire transfer - check out these comparisons:

Theatrical: hxxp://blubrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/f19.jpg
Extended: hxxp://blubrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/f20.jpg

Surely the balrog's flames should be a sickly green if the tint is a screw-up applied to the whole film. Another shot without the tint:

Theatrical: hxxxp://blubrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/f13.jpg
Extended: hxxp://blubrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/f14.jpg

Either I am colorblind or there is no green in these shots. What are we to make of this?

(Sorry about the hxxp, can't post urls yet. Replace with http.)

Ha ha, if you want to return it back to theatrical colours, you're going to need to be spending days rather than hours, and more than a few at that. Excluding the strong green tint, the colour changes are all over the place and range from the very subtle to the more drastic.

Don't worry, you're not colourblind, its just the tint can be more difficult to see on top of certain colours, especially dark scenes because it doesn't affect blacks.

The balrog's flames are meant to be yellow right, not white, so you've got to take that into account. Only things that are meant to be white, like snow or the fade to white before frodo wakes up in rivendell, are going to look greenish with that strong green tint applied throughout the film.

Remove the green tint in this case and rather than the flames looking a sort of sickly greenish yellow you have in the fotr ee blu-ray screencap, they'll look a very cool flame yellow, like the Balrog deserves, being the badass he is.

Again in Rivendell, that scene doesn't look too bad because the tint is not that noticable, but keep in mind that Rivendell is supposed to look brownish/red, representing the autumn of the elves (i think i remember Peter Jackson saying something like that in the dvd extended edition extras) because their time on middle earth is nearly up, they're leaving to the undying lands. Does the fotr ee blu-ray screencap look reddish/brown to you? It doesn't really to me. You remove the green tint and suddenly it does.

Thanks for the suggested tips, kk! Anything to de-Gran Torino this is worth a shot (the more I look at the grabs, the more it reminds me of Gran Torino - underexposed + the same drab, greenish feel), certainly can't hurt, and if it does, so be it, change it back and deal with the seasickness, lol.

In the case of FOTR, one of my all time favorite film, yes I did cancel my order after personally seeing it in action on a 120 inch screem (as I mentioned a few pages back). Comparing it directly with 35mm and with the DVHS tape of the DISH PPV broadcast and the earlier BD, it is clear something went wrong with the color timing.

TTT and RotK are not so affected. They look fine. Different, but not objectionable.

For the record, yes, I would prefer the new extended BD or FOTR to the DVD, which is an edge enhanced mess. But that is not the point.

Your TV's white balance adjustment could probably dial out the green tint, if it has one (my Samsung LCD does). You want to boost the gain of the red and blue channels, and maybe reduce the gain of the green channel a bit, until the stuff that should be white is white (namely, that transition). At least, that's how it works on my TV, I have no clue how it's implemented by other companies or other Samsung models. Unfortunately, you'd have to eyeball it I think.

If anybody have any concerns, try to post them to Peter Jackson's Facebook page. He was quite fast to address peoples concerns about The Hobbit being shot at 48fps.
http://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ

I think I'll start a "FOTR EE Blu-Ray Green Tint Fix On Your TV/Projector" thread. Useful?

Anyone know the exact timecode for the Rivendell fade-to-white?

From the FOTR EE Blu-ray, that is.

ETA: On the DVD, it's 1:24:05. Let me know if there's any reason to think the DVD timecode would differ from the Blu-ray.

I'll ask that we abide by our rules of not discussing the happenings of other forums...meaning conduct etc that takes place there. Those discussions have no bearing on technical discussions about this title. The "drama" and "conduct" on other sites needs to stay off AVS as a discussion point (OT).

Thanks for your understanding and help

Ron

According to PowerDVD 10, it's 1:24:15 on the EE BD.

Sounds like a great idea to me. I'll check the timecode for the fade to white as soon as my computer finishes regrading the final quarter of fotr.

EDIT:

Ah, pteittinen beat me to it.

Thanks.

Over at Blu-Ray.com, someone posted the caps below as a TE/EE comparison of the Rivendell fade-to-white. I couldn't find any other info about them (source, etc.)

Can anyone with the EE disc confirm that these are accurate? (If they are, and you haven't seen them before, prepare to be appalled. I actually hope they're not accurate.)

http://postimage.org/image/2zaubxdpg/

That looks a little greener to me. But the fade to white is no longer a fade to white, people. There is a greenish cast to it. This isn't a conspiracy to screw up a release. it IS what it is.

It depends (heh). If you're viewing the disc on PowerDVD and have the comparison image open in a web browser on the same display... no, they do not look the same. PDVD's image is clearly brighter, although of the same tint. (Further proof that you're not supposed to compare color like this.)

But open the movie file in MPC-HC and grab a PNG file of the same frame (i.e. how you're supposed to take screenshots), and the colors are a very close match.

Comparison image: R197, G211, B185
EE BD: R195, G212, B183

The difference in RGB values is not large enough to matter; the colors match. Edit: actually, moving the eyedropper tool around the green area in Photoshop does find pixels that have exactly matching RGB values.

Thanks. Basically, what I'm looking for is one comparison grab to illustrate "This is what you're trying to fix" for the FOTR Green Tint Fix thread.

So it sounds like I can use it.

I should add to this the fact that the gentleman who has the BD set had it as of last weekend, viewed the first film and went to the AMC Theater on Tuesday looking for that green cast. He clearly saw that the screening was tilted green, but not as much in the skies and snow. He feels it is an error of the Blu-Ray. His opinion. He's also not worrying about it. He didn't pay for the set. It was given to him by the powers that be. He watched it. He invited me over to play with it and compare to my DVHS tapes and his 35mm trailer. He will likely gift it to his son this July 4.

He thinks arguing on the net is stupid.

He's right.

This screams to be followed by the classic "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics" image, but I fear the PC police.

The pic on the right is giving me flashbacks to when the optical block went bad on my old Sony A2000.

I may create a custom setting on my television just for this if it is as bad as everyone says.

I agree that uninformed adolescent spatting is stupid.

But that's not all (or even most) of what's going on here.

We've identified a potential problem with some good evidence and work from people who know what they're doing.

And now we're waiting on PJ to comment. All this 10 days before the release date. Not bad, I'd say.

Just ignore the drama (except for the death threats! WTF?)

(And if y'all haven't already, go to PJ's Facebook page and under Discussions (left side) on this topic, post a Reply. The more Replies, the more likely he is to answer.)

Some DOs and DON'Ts of comparing images.

DO:
A1) View everything on the same display. Using two displays is automatic fail. This applies even when both displays have been calibrated. (Partly because the displays are not a 100% match, and partly because we have non-existent memory for color.)

A2) Make sure you know how the screenshots were produced. Some software players mess with the colors when grabbing the frame to an image file. Not all screenshots are trustworthy because of this. (For best results use MPC-HC with internal filters only, disable shaders and grab to PNG format.)

A3) Remember: our perception of color is very fluid and accommodating. Look through a tinted glass for long enough and our brain begins to re-calibrate the way we see colors.

(Did you know that a test was made where test subjects wore glasses that turn the world upside down -- and after a while their brains flipped their view back so the world appeared the right way round again? Fascinating, right?)

We can't even tell what's pure white without a proper reference point. When you viewed that split-screen comparison video on YouTube, you were comparing the new color scheme to a reference provided by the right side of the video. This made the difference blindingly obvious. It also made the new color scheme appear even more different than it would have if you had seen the new color scheme only.

This explains why most of those who viewed the new FOTR EE without an external reference didn't see much wrong with the new colors. The movie itself was the only reference available, so their brains adapted to its colors.

A4) Disable all color/contrast/whatever "enhancements" in your software player, in case you're using one. Also check the driver settings of your display card and disable anything that might mess with the image.

A5) Calibrate your display. It can only help.

>>>

DON'T: (No, really, don't.)
B1) For the love of Doug, do not take photos of your computer display screen with a digital camera in an attempt to prove anything.

B2) Compare a screenshot opened in a web browser to a paused frame in a software player like PowerDVD. (Instead, grab the frame to a PNG file and open both screenshots next to each other in photo viewing/editing application.)

B3) Try to remember colors you saw earlier. You can't. Not even if you stare at a frame real hard in your screening room and then run to your PC like you were being chased by a starving bear. (Besides, that's using two displays: fail!)

B4) Comment about motion picture color grading if you are color blind. (Added by Mark Booth.)

>>>

Feel free to add your own Dos and Dont's, for I have certainly missed some.

^This post wins the High Substance/Words Ratio award for the day.

After browsing through many "valid" comparison shots, I have the feeling that someone (Jackson or whomever) screwed up. I'm not sure about a specific tint color or whatever, but the new EE remaster just looks drab.

I have a small confession to make. Even though I've been saying I like the new color scheme, I haven't been able to shake the thought of something gone wrong between PJ's/Lesnie's approval and disc replication.

And if indeed it is true that a constant-strength cyan/teal filter has been slapped on for the entire run of the movie... that would in my mind raise the probability of an "Oopsie!" having taken place.

But what lends most weight to the SNAFU argument is the silence from Jackson, Lesnie and WHV. PJ was made aware of the issue several days ago, and to me the silence speaks of a plan being urgently hatched by all involved. After all, how long does it take to post in Facebook something like "Checked the Blu-ray, it looks like it should"?

I was at the AMC screening Tuesday night and the transition screen
did not look like that to me.

pteittinen is the voice of reason in this thread.

He is one. There are many.

Aye. It's like... like... a group of sorts... like a... a Fellowship?



I'll get me coat.