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The Lord Of The Rings Extended - Page 111

post #3301 of 5278
7/6/11 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnrealMiniMe View Post
Maybe the green credits and fade to green are for all the freaking money they're going to make?
And this is the color of that money!






FWIW, the green tint in that Benjamin is the exact same shade of green that I measured in the opening title screen shot from FOTR EE Blu-ray.

Mark
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post #3302 of 5278
7/6/11 at 9:00am
For my money, this statement from steel_breeze is the most useful thing I've read anywhere online regarding the green tint issue. I made these adjustments ("Contrast G" and "Contrast B" are called "green gain" and "blue gain" on my display, and I have only one gamma control, so I just moved it up one tick from 2.2 to 2.35), and the difference is amazing. That snowy scene that begins on disc 2, 7:41, now looks beautiful--whites are white, blues blue. Since this fix works for the entire film, there seems no doubt that a green filter was laid over the whole thing, surely not something the filmmakers would have done intentionally--a mistake must have been made somewhere along the food chain. But with steel-breeze's fix, I can now enjoy FotR in all its beautiful Blu-ray glory!

Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post
Finally got my set in the mail from Amazon (Super Saving Shipping... gotta love it), and although I've been eagerly following this thread, I've kept out of the speculations and discussions. But I've gotta say, with eyes on my calibrated system... it's pretty crazy dark and green. Luckily, this thread had prepared me, so I began color correcting my Panasonic PT-AE4000 with the help of the built-in waveform monitor, and an eye on the "white" value of the opening title. I figured the "white-out" at Rivendell may not be the best, since it is perhaps not supposed to be "pure white"--for whatever creative reason. But for the opening title, red/green/blue values should match or be very close. (In fact, turns out they still don't quite match for me, but faces got too pink if I made the title "pure white".)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of this release, but I'm personally very satisfied with how I've returned this release to the "look" of the DVD Extended Editions with the following "trims" on my Panny 4000:
--increase "Contrast" value by 10
--increase "Gamma Low" value by 1
--reduce "Contrast G" value by 7
--increase "Contrast B" value by 5

For whatever it's worth, I make my living as a cinematographer and feel somewhat awkward about "re-color-timing" a movie... but frankly, it's not the first time. Now that so much "tweaking" and "crunching" is possible in the color suites, certain releases (including the recent ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN and the abysmal GHOSTBUSTERS) need a little help at home to restore them to their proper filmic glory. I now count FELLOWSHIP on that list.
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post #3303 of 5278
7/6/11 at 9:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmn View Post

For my money, this statement from steel_breeze is the most useful thing I've read anywhere online regarding the green tint issue. I made these adjustments ("Contrast G" and "Contrast B" are called "green gain" and "blue gain" on my display, and I have only one gamma control, so I just moved it up one tick from 2.2 to 2.35), and the difference is amazing. That snowy scene that begins on disc 2, 7:41, now looks beautiful--whites are white, blues blue. Since this fix works for the entire film, there seems no doubt that a green filter was laid over the whole thing, surely not something the filmmakers would have done intentionally--a mistake must have been made somewhere along the food chain. But with steel-breeze's fix, I can now enjoy FotR in all its beautiful Blu-ray glory!

I assume these adjustments are in the service menu of your displays?

Mark
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post #3304 of 5278
7/6/11 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong650 View Post

If you look at the comparisons, you'll see that the EE is not graded exactly the same as the theatrical blu-ray, its actually even more green. You can see that by comparing the light coming from Gandalf's staff, it is clearly more white in the theatrical than the EE.

I personally believe it to be a coincidence that the EE blu-ray is fairly similar to the theatrical blu-ray in this one scene. Peter Jackson has changed the colours in the Mines of Moria IMHO and I personally prefer the new look.

While the light from Gandalf's staff is greener in the EE, Gimli's helmet (and almost every other non-white color) is actually greener in the TE. This clearly indicates that the scene was graded differently from before, but it seems to be the one scene that did not become strictly greener. The differences in the scene seem "balanced" and finer-grained in that respect, which could indicate that the EE colors may have been intentional in this particular scene (and mistakenly applied elsewhere).

Then again, that cannot explain the excessive reduction in brightness, which would not have been intentional. Plus, it wouldn't surprise me if your regraded version was the true intent, because I've read reviews that mentioned that the new color grading shifted some previously "muddy green" scenes toward "steely blue," (even despite the green shift) such as the night scenes in Rivendell. Your Moria regrade certainly follows that pattern, which could indicate its correctness.
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post #3305 of 5278
7/6/11 at 9:47am
I finally bought it yesterday, and I was amazed and how great it looked. Not once did I notice a green tint. I did notice some colors had changed some, but it looked rich, deep, and fantastic. This is a on a 120 inch CIH setup, that I "calibrated" myself.

Kris Deering, Robert Harris, and many other renowned experts have reported that this release is almost perfect. What more do you want.

I don't know what is wrong with people's displays to see some of the issues they are seeing.

I honestly hope I never click into this thread again. What a shame.
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post #3306 of 5278
7/6/11 at 9:54am
You don't need a histogram in order to tell that the EE is underexposed in many scenes
but here's a comparison...it's interesting to see the difference >>>

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post #3307 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrader View Post

I finally bought it yesterday, and I was amazed and how great it looked. Not once did I notice a green tint. I did notice some colors had changed some, but it looked rich, deep, and fantastic. This is a on a 120 inch CIH setup, that I "calibrated" myself.

Kris Deering, Robert Harris, and many other renowned experts have reported that this release is almost perfect. What more do you want.

I don't know what is wrong with people's displays to see some of the issues they are seeing.

I honestly hope I never click into this thread again. What a shame.

I'm happy that you're enjoying your copy, but the problem is not with other people's displays or eyes. The green tint is baked right into the RGB values, and the Photoshop color picker has shown that "pure white" - the purest white in the whole film, including the credits and fade to "white" - is actually a shade of pastel green. As you should know, color pickers indicate the actual numerical color present, and they are unaffected by people's eyes and displays. Uncalibrated displays might compensate for it, and the viewer's eyes might compensate for it (such as yours), but neither are guaranteed...and it is factually incorrect to blame the green tint on anyone else's display, since it is numerically baked into the film. If you don't believe the RGB values and prefer arguments from authority (Kris Deering, Robert Harris, etc.), note that as time goes on, more reviewers are recognizing the problem, e.g. http://blubrew.com/2011/06/16/the-fe...ended-edition/. As for myself, I'll consider the issue corrected when the Photoshop color picker does, not when Kris Deering and Robert Harris do.
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post #3308 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

I assume these adjustments are in the service menu of your displays?

Mark

Possibly. You can get similar results by adjusting the Hue setting on your HDTV a few notches. Some HDTV's also have White Balance adjustments for Blue, Red, and Green Gain, and Blue, Red, and Green Bias.
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post #3309 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:14am
For the sake of clarity, we need to be applying a different term than "underexposed" here. The cinematography was exposed years ago and it is what it is and that can't be changed, however it's represented on disc.
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post #3310 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:16am
What I still don't get is when some people have no problems, see no issues and are very Happy with the PQ, they DO have problems with others that might have an issue. If one is happy themselves, why care what others think?
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post #3311 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrader View Post

I finally bought it yesterday, and I was amazed and how great it looked. Not once did I notice a green tint. I did notice some colors had changed some, but it looked rich, deep, and fantastic. This is a on a 120 inch CIH setup, that I "calibrated" myself.

Kris Deering, Robert Harris, and many other renowned experts have reported that this release is almost perfect. What more do you want.

I don't know what is wrong with people's displays to see some of the issues they are seeing.

I honestly hope I never click into this thread again. What a shame.

Excuse us.

My Pioneer PRO-151FD is perfectly calibrated to ISF standards by an I1pro
meter using calman software and a Spears & Munsil blu-ray calibration disc.

Just because you do not see this green tint does not mean it is not
there. It has been scientifically proven to be present throughout the
duration of the movie. Be glad you're one of the lucky ones that are
not bothered. I wish I could say the same.

Hypothetically speaking, if there is an exchange program for Fellowship
would you participate?

Have a nice day.
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post #3312 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayrader View Post

I finally bought it yesterday, and I was amazed and how great it looked. Not once did I notice a green tint. I did notice some colors had changed some, but it looked rich, deep, and fantastic. This is a on a 120 inch CIH setup, that I "calibrated" myself.

Kris Deering, Robert Harris, and many other renowned experts have reported that this release is almost perfect. What more do you want.

I don't know what is wrong with people's displays to see some of the issues they are seeing.

I honestly hope I never click into this thread again. What a shame.

And still.. nobody has posted a screenshot that isn't green with 256,618 views of the thread?
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post #3313 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

What I still don't get is when some people have no problems, see no issues and are very Happy with the PQ, they DO have problems with others that might have an issue. If one is happy themselves, why care what others think?

Since more and more evidence is pointing to Hue being "off" a few notches on the Blu itself, perhaps they are just mad that their displays have been incorrectly calibrated for a long time...since they are not "seeing" green like us.

LOL

Respectfully kidding
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post #3314 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

What I still don't get is when some people have no problems, see no issues and are very Happy with the PQ, they DO have problems with others that might have an issue. If one is happy themselves, why care what others think?

Attacking people who disagree can be a way of mitigating cognitive dissonance. If you emotionally over-invest yourself into your own opinion, it helps smother any doubts [or buyer's remorse] you might have...and crapping on people who disagree is a good way to become emotionally over-invested. Plus, haters gonna hate.
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post #3315 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:52am


I just dont get it. If you are happy with the way it looks, why bother coming back to the thread to argue? To what end? You already have the version you want. Nobody will take it away from you even if it DID turn out to be defective. The only thing I can assume is that certain people just have to "win" or be "right"
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post #3316 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkdune View Post

Some HDTV's also have White Balance adjustments for Blue, Red, and Green Gain, and Blue, Red, and Green Bias.

If you're mucking with your grayscale to correct perceived color issues, you're definitely taking the wrong approach and will only introduce other problems, even if the "color" seems correct.
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post #3317 of 5278
7/6/11 at 10:58am
PIPPIN: I didn't think the mastering process of the FOTR EE blu-ray would end this way.

GANDALF: End? No, the journey doesn't end here. PQ death is just another path, one that every release must take. The grey rain-curtain of the original release rolls back, and all turns to green tint, and then you see it...

PIPPIN: What? Gandalf? See what?

GANDALF: Off-color shores, and beyond, a far green transfer under a swift sunrise (of black crush).

PIPPIN: Well, that isn't so bad...

GANDALF: According to WB, no, no it's not."
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post #3318 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:01am
I will not dispute that there is a green tint on the whole movie, but I tried so hard to look for it in the 1st 15 minutes, and My skies were blu, and Gandalf was grey....Yes my 151FD is calibrated...Maybe there was a bad batch that was somehow released. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. I remember certain movies having different codecs with different looks for the same movie/company, like "Descent". Remember the bad copies authored incorrectly of Twilight Zone Season 1 that had to have disc 1 and 3 replaced?..I'm just saying. Maybe Warner is keeping hush hush, just like The Twilight Zone's disk producer's were. Maybe some of us have "correct" Versions. This is something I haven't seen argued, and maybe everyone who sees green, and those who don't are right? Of course, if there is a replacement program, I am all in.
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post #3319 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

I will not dispute that there is a green tint on the whole movie, but I tried so hard to look for it in the 1st 15 minutes, and My skies were blu, and Gandalf was grey....Yes my 151FD is calibrated...Maybe there was a bad batch that was somehow released. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. I remember certain movies having different codecs with different looks for the same movie/company, like "Descent". Remember the bad copies authored incorrectly of Twilight Zone Season 1 that had to have disc 1 and 3 replaced?..I'm just saying. Maybe Warner is keeping hush hush, just like The Twilight Zone's disk producer's were. Maybe some of us have "correct" Versions. This is something I haven't seen argued, and maybe everyone who sees green, and those who don't are right? Of course, if there is a replacement program, I am all in.

If somebody would just post a good batch picture.... 256,993 views... nobody?
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post #3320 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:06am
So far any "correct" encodes have not been documented.
The simplest explanation is the most likely one: when not viewed against the white of a computer desktop, the green shift becomes imperceptible. To some people less than others, it seems.
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post #3321 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

I will not dispute that there is a green tint on the whole movie, but I tried so hard to look for it in the 1st 15 minutes, and My skies were blu, and Gandalf was grey....Yes my 151FD is calibrated...Maybe there was a bad batch that was somehow released.


If that was the case there would be screenshots without the green. There are not though which is a good indicator that there are no discs without this issue.
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post #3322 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

So far any "correct" encodes have not been documented.
The simplest explanation is the most likely one: when not viewed against the white of a computer desktop, the green shift becomes imperceptible. To some people less than others, it seems.

That thought crossed my mind, for me, as well.
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post #3323 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

I will not dispute that there is a green tint on the whole movie, but I tried so hard to look for it in the 1st 15 minutes, and My skies were blu, and Gandalf was grey....Yes my 151FD is calibrated...Maybe there was a bad batch that was somehow released. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. I remember certain movies having different codecs with different looks for the same movie/companies, like "Descent". Rremember the bad copies authored incorrectly of Twilight Zone Season 1 that had to have disc 1 and 3 replaced?..I'm just saying. Maybe Warner is keeping hush hush, just like The Twilight Zone's disk producer's were. Maybe some of us have "correct" Versions. This is something I haven't seen argued, and maybe everyone who sees green, and those who don't are right? Of course, if there is a replacement program, I am all in.

I have the same display as you and unfortunately I can see the green.
It's not horrible by any means but it can be distracting at times. Subtitles,
end credits and the opening title screen all have a light greenish cast to them.

Regarding the bad batch theory, as others have said I think very unlikely
for the simple fact that not one person has been able to capture a screen
grab and post it showing the lack of a green filter.
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post #3324 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo.USMC View Post

I will not dispute that there is a green tint on the whole movie, but I tried so hard to look for it in the 1st 15 minutes, and My skies were blu, and Gandalf was grey....Yes my 151FD is calibrated...Maybe there was a bad batch that was somehow released. It wouldn't be the first time this has happened. I remember certain movies having different codecs with different looks for the same movie/company, like "Descent". Remember the bad copies authored incorrectly of Twilight Zone Season 1 that had to have disc 1 and 3 replaced?..I'm just saying. Maybe Warner is keeping hush hush, just like The Twilight Zone's disk producer's were. Maybe some of us have "correct" Versions. This is something I haven't seen argued, and maybe everyone who sees green, and those who don't are right? Of course, if there is a replacement program, I am all in.

IMO it's more likely that your eyes/brain 'adjusted' for the green. Check out this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20643204
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post #3325 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

What I still don't get is when some people have no problems, see no issues and are very Happy with the PQ, they DO have problems with others that might have an issue. If one is happy themselves, why care what others think?

Well, I think that has been true of both 'sides', accusing the others of things like poor eyesight, badly calibrated displays, etc. I, for one, happen to be one of those folks who is fully satisfied with the picture quality. Whether my inability to be bothered by the green tint is due to display, video processor, or lack of visual senstitivity, I cannot say. I have no plans to explore the issue any further as the only possible outcome will be for me to become less happy - and what's the point in that!
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post #3326 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:39am
Well PJ and Warner have apparently managed to screw up both the t.e. and the e.e. on br. Pretty amazing that you can take classic, memorable cinema and turn it into a turd.

I am not going to change my setting on my display to try and make FOTR tolerable. Think about it. Do we as consumers have to re-calibrate our displays for every br movie release due to the studios screwing things up?

I'm very disappointed in PJ not stepping up and making sure the final product
was reference. My opinion of him has diminished substantially, and for all
the crap Lucas has taken over his revised editions, at least he didn't ruin the colors and brightness of his trilogies.

I will not be investing $70 for this second rate material. too bad cause if they did
it right, [i]'d be happy to invest $100 for reference quality br. I will merely rent it from bb and live with my ee dvd editions. maybe even watch it again on tnt since the tinting issues won't be present there, although we all know their pq is crap---but at least it's free.

So too bad warner and PJ, but by the majority of all accounts on this forum,
you failed in your task of providing us with an astonishing 1080p product.

We can only hope that Lucas doesnt' do the same thing and his br releases are reference quality. seems the studios, like the networks, figure that we are too stupid to notice the difference. crappy ota 1080I/720p with all their subchannels, and now not utilizing the full abilities of a br display.

Last great b.r. I saw was Avatar. I guess Cameron is the only guy who knows how to do br correctly.
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post #3327 of 5278
7/6/11 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdkind View Post

If you're mucking with your grayscale to correct perceived color issues, you're definitely taking the wrong approach and will only introduce other problems, even if the "color" seems correct.

100% Agreed. That is why I recommend only adjusting the Hue by a few notches for the FOTR EE Blu. It is very easy to set the Hue back to what it was, and those slight Hue adjustments are in fact "correcting" the green-tint issue for many now.
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post #3328 of 5278
7/6/11 at 12:00pm
Quote:


at least he didn't ruin the colors and brightness of his trilogies

I beg to differ.
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post #3329 of 5278
7/6/11 at 12:01pm
Please keep on topic. Discussion of other forums, why people hate, why other members are wacky, etc., is not necessary, not to mention not allowed here.
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post #3330 of 5278
7/6/11 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

I assume these adjustments are in the service menu of your displays?

Actually no--my regular menu includes Contrast, Brightness, Gamma, and six grayscale settings (rgb gains and offsets). So I just plugged in the values listed by steel_breeze (with a single uptick in Gamma, since I don't have separate high/medium/low gamma settings)...and voila!

Certainly this is only an approximation, but it should mostly remove the green overlay and get me to the specific color grading (and scene by scene regrading) that Jackson and Lesnie have applied to the film. If WB eventually offers disc replacements, though, I'll definitely swap mine.
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