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The Lord Of The Rings Extended - Page 169

post #5041 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Not really a good comparison .. additional resolution is not in the same ballpark as brain adapted white balance ..

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

No, the visual system has no provision to normalize resolution. But its ability to white balance isn't something I'm making up here, its a well known part of how vision works, and compensating for it is an integral function of any digital camera or film stock. If you've ever worn tinted ski goggles or something, then you should be very familiar with how your eyes dial out the tint after a few minutes. Pretty much every other page of the thread someone thinks they got a remastered non-green disc even though theres no such thing.

K, two things:

1) No brain is going to adapt to crushed blacks and regenerate detail on the fly
2) Having to wait until my brain adapts green to white is a ridiculous inconvenience. We snark on these forums about TVs and projectors that have a noticible (< 1 second) dynamic adjustment in contrast, but now I am supposed to wait A COUPLE OF MINUTES to not see the green? Not to mention, the fact that once I am conscious of the process of my brain doing the auto-convert, it will no doubt take longer and be even more distracting.

This mess is just plain unacceptable.
post #5042 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

I put this up way back in post #1518, and thought I would put it up again to go along with those shots you just showed.wink.gif
2cf65615.jpg

LMFAO biggrin.gif
post #5043 of 5568
Hey look, it's a great trilogy. There's a lot to rave about here.

But let's face facts. The EE is just too much. Too long, too many battle sequences, too many shots of frodo suffering because of the ring, It seems almost endlessly repetitive. Some might it find tortuous.

PJ, you don't need 100 shots of Frodo in pain; 2 or 3 will suffice. We get it. We don't need to see an hour long battle sequence. 10 minutes is fine. Even that's more than enough, really. Yeah, the orcs are ugly. Yeah, we get that. They don't floss. Great.

I had to ff through the last half hour. Make that an hour. Over and over and over and over and over and over. The repetition is TOO MUCH!


The first installment is the best, by far. It's the only one I saw in theaters and it retains a great deal of it's power. I just found CG Gollum to be not very believable in the trailers, and there again was the repetition: "my precious."

Man, I'm tired of this trilogy. As good as it is, it's a huge relief to have gotten through it. Or at least most of it.
post #5044 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

Hey look, it's a great trilogy. There's a lot to rave about here.
But let's face facts. The EE is just too much. Too long, too many battle sequences, too many shots of frodo suffering because of the ring, It seems almost endlessly repetitive.

I always find it amusing when people can't/don't distinguish between their opinion and facts.
post #5045 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

Hey look, it's a great trilogy. There's a lot to rave about here.
But let's face facts. The EE is just too much. Too long, too many battle sequences, too many shots of frodo suffering because of the ring, It seems almost endlessly repetitive. Some might it find tortuous.
PJ, you don't need 100 shots of Frodo in pain; 2 or 3 will suffice. We get it. We don't need to see an hour long battle sequence. 10 minutes is fine. Even that's more than enough, really. Yeah, the orcs are ugly. Yeah, we get that. They don't floss. Great.
I had to ff through the last half hour. Make that an hour. Over and over and over and over and over and over. The repetition is TOO MUCH!
The first installment is the best, by far. It's the only one I saw in theaters and it retains a great deal of it's power. I just found CG Gollum to be not very believable in the trailers, and there again was the repetition: "my precious."
Man, I'm tired of this trilogy. As good as it is, it's a huge relief to have gotten through it. Or at least most of it.

As one who just watched it (the Blu-Ray EE) all the way through last week, I would disagree with most of this (except for Frodo's pained expression - yes, that got to be tedious). I enjoyed almost every overlong minute of it, and would gladly rewatch it in all its extended glory. I haven't watched the theatrical edition since it was in the theaters. Maybe I would like the theatrical edition as well or more were I to rewatch it, but I suspect I would be thinking "What happened to that part?" and "Where did that part go?" quite often.
post #5046 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

K, two things:
1) No brain is going to adapt to crushed blacks and regenerate detail on the fly
2) Having to wait until my brain adapts green to white is a ridiculous inconvenience. We snark on these forums about TVs and projectors that have a noticible (< 1 second) dynamic adjustment in contrast, but now I am supposed to wait A COUPLE OF MINUTES to not see the green? Not to mention, the fact that once I am conscious of the process of my brain doing the auto-convert, it will no doubt take longer and be even more distracting.
This mess is just plain unacceptable.
Just to be clear, you still haven't actually watched the movies on BD, right? All of the bile you spew is still based solely on YouTube videos and screencaps, right?

Just checking. Carry on.
post #5047 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by eweiss View Post

As one who just watched it (the Blu-Ray EE) all the way through last week, I would disagree with most of this (except for Frodo's pained expression - yes, that got to be tedious). I enjoyed almost every overlong minute of it, and would gladly rewatch it in all its extended glory. I haven't watched the theatrical edition since it was in the theaters. Maybe I would like the theatrical edition as well or more were I to rewatch it, but I suspect I would be thinking "What happened to that part?" and "Where did that part go?" quite often.

My response here is more to the point of this particular conversation rather than the quote itself.

First of all, I am now the owner of the LOTR trilogy theatrical versions. With this, I have a quick question. I purchased them at Walmart on Black Friday with a "Promo" sticker attached. I figured at $4 each, how could I go wrong? Does anyone know the difference between my purchase with a "Promo" sticker and a regular purchase? What I'm really wanting to know is will there be a difference in audio/video quality with the feature presentation?

Back to the point of topic, as mentioned, I am a fan of the LOTR movies despite getting quite burned out from the nightly HBO broadcasts. I have the original theatrical dvd releases but none of the extended versions out of protest. Brilliant marketing to be sure but when LOTR was released I was quite perturbed that shortly after the EE came out. I simply wasn't going to spend the extra money, especially considering it didn't impact the story much. That is until the second installment was released and I found myself asking questions that the LOTR EE could have answered. Well, regardless, on principle now I wasn't going to buy any of the EE versions that I knew would be coming with each dvd release. When ROTK was released in theaters I was flat out pissed because the whole idea of the EE was because the studio said the movie (LOTR) would have been too long. But with ROTK it was longer than any of them and of course filled with gaps that could have been filled had I viewed or purchased the EE's.

Been holding a grudge a long time on that one so when BD came out I simply refused to buy it especially with all of the banter back and forth about the green effect and all of that. I'm not even sure if I would even notice it at this point. But now with the $4 deal I figured it was time but still not the EE versions, which I'm ok with as it's been a while since I've watched them and at this point don't feel I'll miss anything.
post #5048 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeb View Post

Just to be clear, you still haven't actually watched the movies on BD, right? All of the bile you spew is still based solely on YouTube videos and screencaps, right?
Just checking. Carry on.

Nope...lend me yours?

And just to be clear, you do realize that the color shift and dimming have been proven beyond a doubt right? Enough people see it that I don't want to waste my money on an obvious mistake until the studio corrects it. The more noise we make, the more likely they will fix it in a future release. If nothing else, at least we will reduce some profit from going into the studios hands (see post above) for refusing to admit they screwed up. Got anything else to contribute?
post #5049 of 5568
LOL so true.

Two things I can't tolerate:

1. People who deny the problem exists
2. The problem exists

Not necessarily in that order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

I put this up way back in post #1518, and thought I would put it up again to go along with those shots you just showed.wink.gif
2cf65615.jpg
post #5050 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by eweiss View Post

As one who just watched it (the Blu-Ray EE) all the way through last week, I would disagree with most of this (except for Frodo's pained expression - yes, that got to be tedious). I enjoyed almost every overlong minute of it, and would gladly rewatch it in all its extended glory. I haven't watched the theatrical edition since it was in the theaters. Maybe I would like the theatrical edition as well or more were I to rewatch it, but I suspect I would be thinking "What happened to that part?" and "Where did that part go?" quite often.

I like tight pacing, and I felt like the third installment simply dragged things out unnecessarily. It's a very powerful film overall, but several themes, such as frodo's angst, just get beaten into the ground mercilessly. The closeups of Frodo's pained ambivalence as he attempts to balance his will to destroy the ring, his compassion for smeagol, and his attempts to resist the will of the ring itself--powerful. But it's the same friggin' closeup, the same pained expression, the same idea and plot point: over and over and over. It just becomes laughable.
It's reminiscent of Kristin Stewart's similar pained expression in snow white; an inferior film, mind you, but it's the same principle.

If a comedian tells the same joke 10X in the same performance, it's simply not as entertaining during the 10th telling, eh?

It's a great film, but 4 hours of sitting is just a bit much. And I took several breaks. Perhaps I would have enjoyed it more over the course of multiple evenings.
post #5051 of 5568
The third film to me feel redundant after watching the first two. The Helms Deep battle looks and works better than the way too similiar but less exciting and too long battle in Gondor. (I understand following the book this is the way it has to be in some way though)

In one way, I feel making 2 films out of the three books could have worked better. Remove the battle of Helms Deep (which isn't really needed), remove much of the Ents and insert the part of the Hobbits having to fight back Sauroman themselves in the end.

But ofc I respect them for making it as close to the books as they felt they could. And If I were a huge fan of the books I would have been more thrilled.

But as I said I don't really need the third film after watching the first two - and the story with Frodo and the destroying of the ring never feel that interesting, fun or important (apart from Gollum being funny).
post #5052 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

The Caradhras scene was one of the ones that was intentionally changed by PJ. It's not an example of the green tint. So stop posting it, please.

According to who?
post #5053 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual_Chaos View Post

the story with Frodo and the destroying of the ring never feel that interesting, fun or important.

LOL
post #5054 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

LOL
So you never grew tired of the one million moments of Frodo saying "Dear Sam" during their trip to mount doom?
post #5055 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual_Chaos View Post

So you never grew tired of the one million moments of Frodo saying "Dear Sam" during their trip to mount doom?

That was few in comparison to the 'dear in headlights' look Frodo keep giving to the camera.
post #5056 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Nope...lend me yours?
Just making sure those reading the thread know where certain people are coming from. By all means, carry on.
post #5057 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

LOL so true.
Two things I can't tolerate:
1. People who deny the problem exists
2. The problem exists
Not necessarily in that order.
Few, if any, have denied that the colors have been changed.


The rub is, there are those who accept the fact that this release is the first we're seeing of the full-DI/full-color timing version of this film and are willing to give PJ and company the benefit of the doubt that this is the intended look of the film. The reality is, most people who actually watch it (as opposed to flipping back and forth between screencaps and YouTube videos) will (and do) think it looks fantastic. YMMV.
post #5058 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

According to who?
Because the changes are too much to be explained by only a tint, it's simple math. The green tint is a known element, a fixed constant, and can be removed with a single operation. If the scene still looks different than the theatrical edition, then it obviously contains other changes besides that tint. That scene is one of them, as is "second breakfast". Removal of the tint does not result in an image like the theatrical. Combined with official statements from WB and PJ that "Yes, we changed a few things", and I don't think it's too much of a leap.
post #5059 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantu1 View Post

for those that werent around 40 pages ago:
http://cdn.avsforum.com/9/97/9778e84e_vbattach214717.png
http://cdn.avsforum.com/0/0e/0ef49c4d_vbattach214800.gif

Nice to see my GIFs are still being quoted! biggrin.gif
post #5060 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

That was few in comparison to the 'dear in headlights' look Frodo keep giving to the camera.
Hehe. True true.
post #5061 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritual_Chaos View Post

So you never grew tired of the one million moments of Frodo saying "Dear Sam" during their trip to mount doom?

It just came across funny, since destroying the ring is a somewhat important element of the story. biggrin.gif

I aagree that the extended edition of the third one has some pacing issues if you try to watch it in one sitting. I think of the extended editions as something you watch like a mini-series over 5 or 6 evenings. I like the theatrical editions if I want to watch them more like movies.
post #5062 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tack View Post

It just came across funny, since destroying the ring is a somewhat important element of the story. biggrin.gif
I aagree that the extended edition of the third one has some pacing issues if you try to watch it in one sitting. I think of the extended editions as something you watch like a mini-series over 5 or 6 evenings. I like the theatrical editions if I want to watch them more like movies.

I completely agree. I think my mistake was that I attempted to watch the trilogy in 3 sittings. It really should've been 6. But the first half of "king" ends with a cliff hanger right in the middle of a battle sequence! So of course I had to soldier on myself and watch the second half. smile.gif Thank goodness for the FF button!
post #5063 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

I completely agree. I think my mistake was that I attempted to watch the trilogy in 3 sittings. It really should've been 6. But the first half of "king" ends with a cliff hanger right in the middle of a battle sequence! So of course I had to soldier on myself and watch the second half. smile.gif Thank goodness for the FF button!

I thought everybody was supposed to watch all 3 EEs in one sitting....
post #5064 of 5568
There seems to be a sickly teal tint in the Shire in this commercial for "The Hobbit":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3IPy-q7w6U


Gone is the warmth of the Shire that we had in FOTR. It looks more like the tint in FOTR EE. I'm not denying that there is a mistake on the EE (where there is no pure white at all), but it looks like Jackson may not have only wanted to change the grading in the snow scenes in FOTR, but in the Shire as well.
post #5065 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

I thought everybody was supposed to watch all 3 EEs in one sitting....

That's how we do it. Pacing is great that way. smile.gif
post #5066 of 5568
My son is watching Lord of the Rings with me for the first time before he sees the Hobbit. We are watching one disc of the Extended Editions each night and we are on number four out of six. I don't think he could sit still for eleven hours to watch them all in one sitting.
post #5067 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Because the changes are too much to be explained by only a tint, it's simple math. The green tint is a known element, a fixed constant, and can be removed with a single operation. If the scene still looks different than the theatrical edition, then it obviously contains other changes besides that tint. That scene is one of them, as is "second breakfast". Removal of the tint does not result in an image like the theatrical. Combined with official statements from WB and PJ that "Yes, we changed a few things", and I don't think it's too much of a leap.

There has been no official statements from PJ (and that's telling, as he's verbose in his commucations with his fans if anything... just look at his Hobbit production diaries on YouTube), only a generic PR statement from WB [that had nothing to do with the issue specifically] in which they said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warner Bros. 
We have been recently aware of growing concerns regarding the image quality of the blu-ray release of the Extended Edition of the Lord of the Rings, specifically, Fellowship of The Rings. After a close examination, and after consulting with the film's producers, we can assure the viewers that this image is exactly as the filmmakers intended

It can't be removed with a single operation. No one has yet posted a formula or gradient that restores the entire film back to its theatrical presentation excluding those two scenes you're referring to. I believe the colorist that altered the film didn't simply set a specific gradient and have it run throughout the entire film.... I think it's more likely he applied this bias throughout the entirety of the film (excluding a handful of minutes worth of credits) but in slightly varying degrees.

I don't think PJ or Lesnie were involved in any capacity in which they personally oversaw (as in, were standing in the room) any of these color timing /black level alterations as they were implemented. I think it's a situation much like the recent Night of the Living Dead release, where the DP basically confirmed his "official" involvement amounted to being briefly consulted by phone. I believe that happens way more often than not. Even those who worked in the industry imply this to be the case.... I think studios get those involved to basically sign off on certain releases and use it as a point of marketing. I do not think Jackson or Lesnie took time, in the midst of the busiest point of the production for the Hobbit, to fly from NZ to LA to personally oversee color timing alterations in two brief scenes scenes in FotR only to leave the studio colorist to alter the entire rest of the film, that seems far-fetched to me.
post #5068 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

There has been no official statements from PJ (and that's telling, as he's verbose in his commucations with his fans if anything... just look at his Hobbit production diaries on YouTube), only a generic PR statement from WB [that had nothing to do with the issue specifically] in which they said:
It can't be removed with a single operation. No one has yet posted a formula or gradient that restores the entire film back to its theatrical presentation excluding those two scenes you're referring to. I believe the colorist that altered the film didn't simply set a specific gradient and have it run throughout the entire film.... I think it's more likely he applied this bias throughout the entirety of the film (excluding a handful of minutes worth of credits) but in slightly varying degrees.
I don't think PJ or Lesnie were involved in any capacity in which they personally oversaw (as in, were standing in the room) any of these color timing /black level alterations as they were implemented. I think it's a situation much like the recent Night of the Living Dead release, where the DP basically confirmed his "official" involvement amounted to being briefly consulted by phone. I believe that happens way more often than not. Even those who worked in the industry imply this to be the case.... I think studios get those involved to basically sign off on certain releases and use it as a point of marketing. I do not think Jackson or Lesnie took time, in the midst of the busiest point of the production for the Hobbit, to fly from NZ to LA to personally oversee color timing alterations in two brief scenes scenes in FotR only to leave the studio colorist to alter the entire rest of the film, that seems far-fetched to me.
In regards to the bolded part, did you really just use that faux "insider" with zero credibility as some sort of reference?

It's a shame that site just so happened to "lose" the posts where the real insider called him out as a sham.

As for statements, don't forget we also have what Bill Hunt was told:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hunt 
I've confirmed with production-related sources that Jackson and cinematographer Andrew Lesnie were directly involved in all decisions related to this new transfer and approved it personally. So to the extent that there are changes to the color-timing, they were made at Jackson and Lesnie's direction - the films look exactly as they want them to.
post #5069 of 5568
I couldn't care less about any sort of asinine rivalry between sites or specific A/V fan groups, to be honest. That's seems about the silliest waste time imaginable, honestly.

And back on topic - Exactly, that's precisely what happened with NotLD. That is hardly proof they oversaw anything personally. "Direct involvement" and then an approval are meaningless, especially when they're claimed by "production-related" sources (which is a nice way of saying someone working for the studio.) You don't think it's suspicious that PJ never personally commented about personally overseeing it, or made ANY comment about it for that matter yet for many months it dominated the discussion on his personal FB page?
post #5070 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

I couldn't care less about any sort of asinine rivalry between sites or specific A/V fan groups, to be honest. That's seems about the silliest waste time imaginable, honestly.
And back on topic - Exactly, that's precisely what happened with NotLD. That is hardly proof they oversaw anything personally. "Direct involvement" and then an approval are meaningless, especially when they're claimed by "production-related" sources (which is a nice way of saying someone working for the studio.) You don't think it's suspicious that PJ never personally commented about personally overseeing it, or made ANY comment about it for that matter yet for many months it dominated the discussion on his personal FB page?

True, the Studios/distributors have no problem of making bogus claims in regards to 'personal oversight' or 'approval' just to name two. They pushed pan&scan the same way and would claim the moon is made of cheese if it would help sell more product. They would go even as far as saying a director dead for several years 'approved' a BD. Heck, studios even put fake positive film reviewer quotes in their ads.

Since there are quite a few that take their word at face value, the Studios/distributors see no reason to stop doing it.
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