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The Lord Of The Rings Extended - Page 170

post #5071 of 5568
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ert2n3tKvrw&list=UUbK6zWdhtIP2McF3LtBnQpg&index=2&feature=plcp

Latest production diary of The Hobbit. @07:32 we got look at the process of color grading.
post #5072 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

It can't be removed with a single operation. No one has yet posted a formula or gradient that restores the entire film back to its theatrical presentation...
Uh, yeah you can. It's in this very thread. People have done it. I believe there's plenty of examples scattered through these 5000 posts.
post #5073 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

Uh, yeah you can. It's in this very thread. People have done it. I believe there's plenty of examples scattered through these 5000 posts.

Uh, no, you can't. I've seen countless people re-timing specific scenes or portions to better match the theatrical but no one has yet provided a "formula" to restore the original theatrical color timing to the entire film.... because the gradient varies.
post #5074 of 5568
Whatever you say, bub. Carry on.
post #5075 of 5568
I believe the constant green tint issue is separate from the new color grade. You can dial out the green tint with a constant preset, but the the new color grading is scene by scene. I believe some people may be talking past each other here by interchanging the issues. I don't have any problem with the new color grading, which does make a couple scenes more greenish even if you fix the white point on the transfer, such as the second breakfast scene. That, you can see easily. The overall tint not so much.
post #5076 of 5568
Two years and over 5000 posts, the issue isn't fixed yet.
post #5077 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

I couldn't care less about any sort of asinine rivalry between sites or specific A/V fan groups, to be honest. That's seems about the silliest waste time imaginable, honestly.
It has nothing to do with any sort of rivalry. It has everything to do with a purported insider invoking the name of an actual insider (Grover Crisp) right up to the point where the real, verified insider (Mr. Crisp) spoke up and set the record straight. That's why Penton's a "retired" insider (although how you can retire from a position you never truly held is a mystery to me.)

See this thread for more details...
post #5078 of 5568
Oh, I honestly have no idea about any of that - it is hilarious though. It's immaterial to the point I was making anyway, as it wasn't the person I quoted "claiming" that actually happened with NotLD but it was already an established fact, I just quoted his post because the whole situation was described succinctly within it so I didn't have to go into great detail about it. It's a well-known phenomenon, that's the point I was trying to make. Just because a studio uses "X Approved" as a marketing bullet point, or claims that changes were made at X's specific direction, is absolutely meaningless and doesn't necessarily mean "X" personally oversaw anything. That, coupled with the fact that neither PJ nor Lesnie has ever personally commented on the situation (despite certainly knowing about it) or endorsed the new color grading, speaks volumes.

EDIT: Now that I read more of that thread it's crazy that someone was masquerading as an official Sony representative over at BD.com for so long, even with his own dedicated "Insider" thread, and didn't actually work at Sony (ever.) Hahahaha, ridiculous. Their vetting process must be top of the line.
Edited by Stinky-Dinkins - 12/1/12 at 3:14pm
post #5079 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Oh, I honestly have no idea about any of that - it is hilarious though. It's immaterial to the point I was making anyway, as it wasn't the person I quoted "claiming" that actually happened with NotLD but it was already an established fact, I just quoted his post because the whole situation was described succinctly within it so I didn't have to go into great detail about it. It's a well-known phenomenon, that's the point I was trying to make. Just because a studio uses "X Approved" as a marketing bullet point, or claims that changes were made at X's specific direction, is absolutely meaningless and doesn't necessarily mean "X" personally oversaw anything. That, coupled with the fact that neither PJ nor Lesnie has ever personally commented on the situation (despite certainly knowing about it) or endorsed the new color grading, speaks volumes.
EDIT: Now that I read more of that thread it's crazy that someone was masquerading as an official Sony representative over at BD.com for so long, even with his own dedicated "Insider" thread, and didn't actually work at Sony (ever.) Hahahaha, ridiculous. Their vetting process must be top of the line.
Sorry - I guess I thought that whole debacle had gotten around a lot more than it really did. Talk about a well-timed database crash...

Quite the read, huh? Good times, noodle salad.
post #5080 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Uh, no, you can't. I've seen countless people re-timing specific scenes or portions to better match the theatrical but no one has yet provided a "formula" to restore the original theatrical color timing to the entire film.... because the gradient varies.
*Sigh*

The gradient varies because some scenes were indeed regraded. But there have definitely been blanket entire film re-timings done by people here that restore 80% of the scenes to at least very close to the theatrical - it's assumed that the other 20% (or whatever amount really was re-graded) were intentional.

Here's two examples of blanket changes, plus one person who confirms his own findings were the same:
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

As for the quality, I've posted several times in this thread about how I'm able to alter the settings on my Panny AE4000 to make the quality of this blu-ray a virtual match with the dvd set in terms of color and contrast. It's very successful when done right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steel_breeze View Post

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of this release, but I'm personally very satisfied with how I've returned this release to the "look" of the DVD Extended Editions with the following "trims" on my Panny 4000:

--increase "Contrast" value by 10
--increase "Gamma Low" value by 1
--reduce "Contrast G" value by 7
--increase "Contrast B" value by 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingkong650 View Post


I´ve got to say that you´ve pretty much done almost exactly the same there as what i´ve done with the regrade and without having to reencode or anything. Nicely done!

and
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

I'm using an AviSynth plugin ... This is the curve I'm using:

Code:



# GIMP Curves File
0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 255 255
0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 202 255 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 219 255 -1 -1 -1 -1
0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 191 255 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 255 255

post #5081 of 5568
"Close" is not identical, it varies. I've tried it. If it were a fixed gradient the result would not vary, it would be consistent in mirroring the look of the original (or at least consistent in the degree in which it approached replicating the original timing, and it's not.) Also, "20%" of scenes deviating wildly is a huge amount. To just arbitrarily decide those were intentionally regraded at a separated time, before a constant bias was applied, makes no sense to me. 20% of scenes varying more from the baseline seems more consistent with the entire film being regraded by a single colorist and him varying in the degree in which he manipulated certain portions.
post #5082 of 5568
The reason it varies when you try to correct is that whatever adjustment was applied to the disc is not linear. Thus, if you fix it for light gray, it is not 100% correct in the dark areas, and if you remove the green from the gray, it is not 100% correct in the oranges, etc. Without knowing the exact curve, or limited by whatever adjustments the display offers, one can only come close. But what doesn't vary, is if you only look at one specific color at one specific brightness, the color shift is the same. Another way of putting this is pick an RGB value in a scene, and then look at the color shift in the EE. Everywhere else that RGB value occurs, the EE color shift is the same (except for the scenes that have obviously been regraded on top of everything).

The most used example of this is white - everywhere that is pure white in the theatrical is shifted to the same green tint and reduced in brightness by the same amount. This does not vary across the entire film.

There were a lot of 're-grading' attempts back after the discs came out where people were trying to find a close enough approximation that worked well in most of the scenes.
post #5083 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

The reason it varies when you try to correct is that whatever adjustment was applied to the disc is not linear. Thus, if you fix it for light gray, it is not 100% correct in the dark areas, and if you remove the green from the gray, it is not 100% correct in the oranges, etc. Without knowing the exact curve, or limited by whatever adjustments the display offers, one can only come close. But what doesn't vary, is if you only look at one specific color at one specific brightness, the color shift is the same. Another way of putting this is pick an RGB value in a scene, and then look at the color shift in the EE. Everywhere else that RGB value occurs, the EE color shift is the same (except for the scenes that have obviously been regraded on top of everything).
The most used example of this is white - everywhere that is pure white in the theatrical is shifted to the same green tint and reduced in brightness by the same amount. This does not vary across the entire film.
There were a lot of 're-grading' attempts back after the discs came out where people were trying to find a close enough approximation that worked well in most of the scenes.

Absolute nonsense. My point is the shift in color differential is NOT the same scene-by-scene. No fix, ANY fix that has been provided thus far, provides a consistent result from the original baseline. I have tried them all. They do not provide values of near-white where there were values of near-white in the original (in snow, clouds, clothes, etc.), consistently.
post #5084 of 5568
It is not nonsense, it is science and using the RGB values as I explained can be verified.

If you are using a near-white with an orange tint (maybe clothes) in one scene vs. a near white with a blue tint in another scene (maybe snow), then of course they're going to be different.

What I have not seen, is the same shade of any color in two separate scenes being different in the EE (except for the cases that are obviously changed). If you want to point out a case, then fine, but until then I am going with what can be digitally verified.
post #5085 of 5568
There is a problem with the extended versions???

smile.gif

I picked them up for $10 apiece and each had $5 Hobbit cash. So I basically paid $5 per movie.. Hard to complain at those prices. I will watch them soon and share my thoughts (I also own the theatricals and was not really impressed at all which , especially LOTR FOTR.
post #5086 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinky-Dinkins View Post

Absolute nonsense. My point is the shift in color differential is NOT the same scene-by-scene. No fix, ANY fix that has been provided thus far, provides a consistent result from the original baseline. I have tried them all. They do not provide values of near-white where there were values of near-white in the original (in snow, clouds, clothes, etc.), consistently.

This is my problem with the EE. While my brain might be able to acclimatize to the green tint, there is the jarring blue/teal that comes and goes in some scenes which I find most distracting. Not to mention the brightness problems. I think PJ did a rush job on the regrading and should have just had it remastered without tinkering if he couldn't complete it.
post #5087 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

There is a problem with the extended versions???
smile.gif
I picked them up for $10 apiece and each had $5 Hobbit cash. So I basically paid $5 per movie.. Hard to complain at those prices. I will watch them soon and share my thoughts (I also own the theatricals and was not really impressed at all which , especially LOTR FOTR.

PJ only messed with FOTR. So now you can choose between the consistently fuzzy and warm TE and the inconsistently colored, dark, crisp and clear EE. Pity wink.gif
post #5088 of 5568
SMH. Complaining about the green tint in some scenes is truly missing the forest for the trees. Overall, all 3 EE films look great. There are some minor problems in some of the CGI'ed scenes in film 1, a bit of softness in the early scenes, but otherwise even the first looks at least very good, and could be rated as excellent generally speaking.

Again, this OCD, obsessive discussion and focus on minutiae that is basically irrelevant is a sad waste of your lives. SIT BACK AND ENJOY THESE GREAT MOVIES!!!!
post #5089 of 5568
The whole film is green, from beginning to end, not just "some" scenes. Some scenes are just simply that much worse. Don't play this up to be a knee-jerk reaction to "minutiae".

You can still enjoy the film while objectively acknowledging that the release has serious flaws. No reason to pretend.
post #5090 of 5568
It amazes me that this is still being debated. Never mind when it had the special screening before the BD release, the green push was NOT there. It's not supposed to be there. But go ahead, everyone. Keep arguing about it. Nothing else to do, right?

Me... I'm going to spend some time awaiting the release of the Criterion FOLLOWING Blu-Ray and perhaps decide which theater I'll see The Hobbit.

I'll also read a book or two.

What I won't do is spend months or years debating this. It's just silly. WHATEVER! Everybody should just let it go.
post #5091 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by johncourt View Post

Again, this OCD, obsessive discussion and focus on minutiae that is basically irrelevant is a sad waste of your lives. SIT BACK AND ENJOY THESE GREAT MOVIES!!!!

I did actually do that - sat back and enjoyed FOTR. Then I posted what I thought was a slightly different perspective on the debate, but I guess my post was too subtle and MISSING CAPITAL LETTERS rolleyes.gif

If you think it's irrelevant then I think you're reading the wrong thread.
post #5092 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_Stevens View Post

It amazes me that this is still being debated. Never mind when it had the special screening before the BD release, the green push was NOT there. It's not supposed to be there. But go ahead, everyone. Keep arguing about it. Nothing else to do, right?

What I won't do is spend months or years debating this. It's just silly. WHATEVER! Everybody should just let it go.

Why don't we just close this thread then?

It seems you are still talking about it but adding nothing new. Stinky and I are onto something else and I think our posts just on this page deserve to be read or re-read.

Thank you for mentioning "the special screening before the BD release". It might shock you that we are actually objecting to PJ's new inconsistent color grading that would have also been present there, minus the green push.
Edited by AVfile - 12/7/12 at 7:27am
post #5093 of 5568
I'm laughing at this thread. I happen to see it active, day in and day out and stated my mind. You can agree or disagree. I don't care.

There is nothing new to add. Nothing. This is like the right and the left. Two sides and they will never agree. Ever.
post #5094 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

You can still enjoy the film while objectively acknowledging that the release has serious flaws. No reason to pretend.

I agree that overall it was very impressive! I can overlook the color issues but really not the darkness. There were CGI scenes where you couldn't see the orcs chopping trees and stuff.

Matt: the side that hates the green tint may not realize it's actually the new color grading that they are being bothered by - in that respect both sides can be right! Yes I think PJ is more at fault here than WB.
post #5095 of 5568
And there you go again. I saw the film, the newly graded version, on the big screen. Right before the Blu-Ray. The BD's green tint is an error that was not present on the special screening on that gargantuan screen. Somebody screwed up, pure and simple and it would cost Warner all of their profits on the set to redo it and recall it. So they won't do anything about it. No surprise.

I saw this with my own two eyes and I trust what I saw. I also trust some very gifted DP's who were at the screening and have stated the same.

But this has already been gone over. Thousands of times.
post #5096 of 5568
*Yawn*
post #5097 of 5568
edit: I am not debating the green tint, we are well past that now, please try to keep up.
Edited by AVfile - 12/7/12 at 11:43am
post #5098 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathanddrews View Post

The whole film is green, from beginning to end, not just "some" scenes. Some scenes are just simply that much worse. Don't play this up to be a knee-jerk reaction to "minutiae".
You can still enjoy the film while objectively acknowledging that the release has serious flaws. No reason to pretend.
No, the whole film is many different colors. A few scenes are greener than others. Others are bluer or redder or purple-er. "Objectively" the overall green shift may be a flaw, but fortunately I don't watch movies objectively, and subjectively I don't notice it when watching the film, thus it's a non-issue. I even did a re-encode of my disc to fix the white point and the result looked pretty much the same in the end, except with another generation of compression, so I just deleted it. A "serious" flaw in my mind is the ugly DNR smearing Two Towers is larded with, though of course that's a post-production choice.

*Yawn* indeed. Bunch of people talking past each other.
post #5099 of 5568
Is there any PQ/AQ/Extras difference between the Amazon 2011 Bluray release and the 2012 Bluray release, apart from the almost 50% price difference?

I never rely on Amazon's specifications, but they suggest a small aspect ratio change and different subtitle languages.

Obviously from this thread they didn't correct the green tint.
post #5100 of 5568
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD View Post

Is there any PQ/AQ/Extras difference between the Amazon 2011 Bluray release and the 2012 Bluray release, apart from the almost 50% price difference?
I never rely on Amazon's specifications, but they suggest a small aspect ratio change and different subtitle languages.
Obviously from this thread they didn't correct the green tint.

If you're asking if the Individual releases of the BDs of the Extended Editions are the same as the ones in the Trilogy boxed set, the answer from all reviewers is "Yes." 5 discs per movie (2 BDs for the feature film + 3 DVDs of special features apiece), but with different packaging (and possibly different disc labels/images). Which is why I bought the EE boxed set when it was on its one-day Amazon sale for $39.99, as I was getting the exact same thing content-wise and transfer-wise, green tint and all (but in a single box), as I would be getting were I to buy each of the EEs in their full 5-disc individual package editions.

And it looks like that price has come back! So get it without delay!
Edited by eweiss - 12/11/12 at 12:00pm
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