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CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 35

post #1021 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

...its still a pretty huge strike against the projector from the get go.

We are in agreement, and it appears Laredo is going to wait on a Viewsonic which IMO is a Very good decision...!
post #1022 of 1270
I actually have spoken (emailed) Hans and they stand by all their claims of 3000 lumen output and great colors with "amazing" contrast. I asked if I could order one and if not happy with the quality of the picture or the light output could I return it for refund. I was told no. I could get a replacement but nt return it without a 20-30% restocking fee plus the large shipping fee back to them... Not to mention eventually the govt will wnat its import duty too.

No idea what seagulling is other than what comes up on Gopogle and it does not apply here.

Lastly everything said in my comments are directly from here and if people took enough time to read through this thread they would agree that the claims made by CRE are outlandish.

Do you have to buy and own a yugo car in order to know to it has serious issues? This projector is a slightly modified version on the projector in this thread. When you compare them the internals are the same.

here are some of the "claims"
Huge contrast 100.000:1
Lowest Noise Work very quiet
post #1023 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

I actually have spoken (emailed) Hans and they stand by all their claims of 3000 lumen output and great colors with "amazing" contrast. I asked if I could order one and if not happy with the quality of the picture or the light output could I return it for refund. I was told no. I could get a replacement but nt return it without a 20-30% restocking fee plus the large shipping fee back to them... Not to mention eventually the govt will wnat its import duty too.

No idea what seagulling is other than what comes up on Gopogle and it does not apply here.

Lastly everything said in my comments are directly from here and if people took enough time to read through this thread they would agree that the claims made by CRE are outlandish.

Do you have to buy and own a yugo car in order to know to it has serious issues? This projector is a slightly modified version on the projector in this thread. When you compare them the internals are the same.

here are some of the "claims"
Huge contrast 100.000:1
Lowest Noise Work very quiet


Point 1 The amazon comment section says "customer" reviews. You are not a customer. All the hemming, hawing and doublespeak is not going to change that and If I were the manufacturer I would be pointing this out to amazon. Your only experience with this unit has been here-say and second hand at best. To take it upon yourself and write a scathing review almost borders on being malicious.

Point 2 The projector uses Epson panels and the Luminus PT120 LEDs as a light source, Both are respectable companies. I'm pretty sure that they could shine a white beam through it and get 3000 Lumens if they had to. Everybody makes pretty outrageous claims especially when it come to contrast ratios and whatever new buzzword technology the company's marketing staff can come up with, Most of it is a bunch of high tech Hooey.

Point 3 . I don't know where you came up with the fan being installed in the wrong place comment. I think this is a severe error on your part but the company has to deal with the fallout from your review.

Point 4 "Seagulling" refers to a Bird (the seagull). This bird come out of nowhere makes all kinds of noise, Craps on things and then leaves.

I hope this clear thing up for you

Bohanna
post #1024 of 1270
Here is a little article for you folks that believe the projector specks you use to compare products have any practical value in the real world.

Bohanna

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/fea...yths_shattered
post #1025 of 1270
My thoughts exactly. Could not be explained any better.

I'm so sorry for some it needs explaining!

thank you for doing so........
post #1026 of 1270
Quote:


Who can write Amazon.com customer reviews?

Anyone registered as an Amazon.com customer is entitled to write customer reviews.
Does the reviewer have to buy the item from Amazon.com?

No. It doesn't matter where an item was purchased, or if it was a gift, or if the reviewer just borrowed it for a weekend. If someone feels moved to write a review of an item, and they are a registered Amazon.com customer, they are welcome.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...d=12177361#who
post #1027 of 1270
Point 1. Eat Meat clearly dealt with. +1

Point 2. You can use great components i.e. Epson panels, and Lumunis PT-120 chipset and still mess it up. Poor or cheap optics, putting the polarizer to close to the light source (which they did: see SMJs issue) If you believe, which is your feeling, just as I posted my opinion that they could get 3000 lumens out of this projector then go head and believe it. I have an LED projector with the PT-120 chipset in it and have measured three different brands with an i1-Pro and Calman 4.4 or higher. With this spectrometer the max lumens with any of the SIM2, Runco or DP LED projectors with a 100% IRE pattern with everything cranked was 935 lumens at 9300 Kelvin temp and the resulting image is unusable. Once things are calibrated the best or highest output (not measured by me) but on this Forum is about 575 lumens at D65. The highest I have measured from any of these PJs is 534 lumens.

Yes outrageous claims are marketing; however, these claims are beyond belief. These are Bugatti Veryon horsepower claims from a Honda Civic.

Point 3. If you read my comments I did not say the fan was installed in the wrong spot I said the filter was installed on the exhaust. These are the direct words from SMJ and he confirmed it multiple times as no one could believe the filter was filtering the exhaust.

Point 4. Do a google and see what comes up or are you trying to start a new trendy word? If you look through this thread I have been very active on it. I was very interested in this projector and hoped it would live up to even 20% of it claims, however that did not happen.

As for calibration and what controls do; I fully understand what they do and how to use them correctly to set up a projector, TV or computer. I have taken an ISF class in order to understand how to do calibrations properly and bought calibrated quality equipment. I only add this as you seem to be implying I do not understand what lumens, brighten, and contrast are.

I hope I have cleared up your issues.
post #1028 of 1270
By John Filbertan "John" (Cleveland)


I have had this unit approximately 3 months, I purchased this unit in January and have been very pleased with the quality for the price. Remember that the closest 3 LCD/3 LED projector is almost 6 times the cost of one of these units.

There were quite a few problems that have been since fixed on this unit and it really shows. The colors I have found to be fairly accurate but are not quite 100%. The image quality however is sensational, the LED light engine really gives an incredible pop to the image that I have never seen before in an LED projector.

Neighbors and colleagues have been very impressed with the picture and I am very happy to have purchased it. If anyone has any questions about this unit feel free to post them in the comments I would be happy to answer them.
post #1029 of 1270
Quote:


Remember that the closest 3 LCD/3 LED projector is almost 6 times the cost of one of these units.

the only brand name that I know of is the samsung-dlp is another story,i think that is what you(he) means.
there are 26 1080p led led(all dlp) pjs-there are 32 lcd/led bulbed 1080p pjs
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15
post #1030 of 1270
Everyone has their opinions and if his is that the projector is fairly accurate that is fine. There is no true description of what fairly means. Coming from projectors at all levels that are within 1 to 3 delta of perfect colors the CRE is not even fairly accurate in my eyes. I have my current projector down to .3 or less delta in all measurable areas and still some that have paid for calibration might say that is only fairly accurate. My point is all reviews are opinions and everyone is allowed to have theirs.

I have no problem with the actual owner's review or SMJ's review. he was very up front about how good bad and ugly the projector performed.

My first projector was an old 480i infocus that had about 200 (max not calibrated) lumens and compared to modern projectors and even TV at the time looked very poor, but I loved it and my friends that it was amazing... does not mean it was, it just was to us since no one had a projector before and the largest CRT (direct view TV) was about 38" and I could project without complete lose of detail up to 65".

On the CRE site they have 74 different versions of this projector! All with almost the same specs. The price does vary, but the limited specs do not tell which lens and other changes some of them have.

Just remember Samsung stoped selling their LED LCD projector because of problems.
post #1031 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

Point 1. Eat Meat clearly dealt with. +1

Point 2. You can use great components i.e. Epson panels, and Lumunis PT-120 chipset and still mess it up. Poor or cheap optics, putting the polarizer to close to the light source (which they did: see SMJs issue) If you believe, which is your feeling, just as I posted my opinion that they could get 3000 lumens out of this projector then go head and believe it. I have an LED projector with the PT-120 chipset in it and have measured three different brands with an i1-Pro and Calman 4.4 or higher. With this spectrometer the max lumens with any of the SIM2, Runco or DP LED projectors with a 100% IRE pattern with everything cranked was 935 lumens at 9300 Kelvin temp and the resulting image is unusable. Once things are calibrated the best or highest output (not measured by me) but on this Forum is about 575 lumens at D65. The highest I have measured from any of these PJs is 534 lumens.

Yes outrageous claims are marketing; however, these claims are beyond belief. These are Bugatti Veryon horsepower claims from a Honda Civic.

Point 3. If you read my comments I did not say the fan was installed in the wrong spot I said the filter was installed on the exhaust. These are the direct words from SMJ and he confirmed it multiple times as no one could believe the filter was filtering the exhaust.

Point 4. Do a google and see what comes up or are you trying to start a new trendy word? If you look through this thread I have been very active on it. I was very interested in this projector and hoped it would live up to even 20% of it claims, however that did not happen.

As for calibration and what controls do; I fully understand what they do and how to use them correctly to set up a projector, TV or computer. I have taken an ISF class in order to understand how to do calibrations properly and bought calibrated quality equipment. I only add this as you seem to be implying I do not understand what lumens, brighten, and contrast are.

I hope I have cleared up your issues.

Maybe you are missing the point or you are in complete denial over the comments that I and others have made relating to your amazon ambush. You took it upon yourself the make a review of a product that you don't own and have never dealt with except through anecdotal information at best.
You are now clearly implying that just because the company is using top notch components that they don't know what they are doing and they have "messed up" You could have a degree from NASA and million of dollars worth of test gear. It doesn't matter, thats not the point. This projector looks like it could be something that many people who don't have all kinds of cash to blow could use without fear of lamp replacement, Nobody is saying that its the top of the line product and they may be exaggerating the specks but that is VERY COMMON in the industry. There are over 1000 comments in this thread relating to this product and the pictures that it shows are there as well. I believe that anybody with even a reasonable amount of intelligence would view your unsolicited comments on the AMAZON site as completely out of line and deceptive because you have NO HANDS ON experience with the product you reviewed under the title of CUSTOMER REVIEWS. What is Really "beyond belief" is that you commented on amazon in the first place. The term "Seagulling" is not some trendy term I am trying to make up. It is a term that many people use relating to people who give unsolicited comments about things that they have no connection to. I have also been involved in this thread from the get go and the machine has had some issues but they seem to have been resolved and the customer support comments have been FAR FAR better than many of the other companies that have issues with their products, I won't even begin to talk about the companies that routinely have convergence issues that require shipping back to them for repair or replacement as well as the number of times there are known issues about lamps that fail prematurely at a high rate. It almost seems like for some reason you have some bizarre axe to grind with this product.


Bohanna
post #1032 of 1270
Interesting that you are making your comments on a forum where they too are unsolicited. This is what a forum is.
Interesting how you just ignore valid points by others when they do not support your side. (Eat Meat's comments etc)

You nor anyone here has to like my comments; they are my opinion, just as your comments are yours.
You are taking this way to personal as many of your comments do. If you profess this is an amzing product go buy one. I will choice to pass on this.

I am done with this banter. A 2K projector meant for home theater that cannot display the proper colors is not worth talking about.
post #1033 of 1270
Sorry rt, eat meat completely missed the point and Bohanna is right. No doubt anyone can post anything they want on Amazon--that wasn't what was being argued.

You posted a one-star review of a product you've never seen, or been within a continent and/or ocean of, based on...what, your pique that the mfr wouldn't give one to you to play with and return if you wanted?

Had you stated "I've NEVER seen this pj myself but from other posts I HAVE seen of it, well, beware people" then at least readers would be crystal-clear about the value (or lack thereof) of your "review".

post #1034 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

there are 32 lcd/led bulbed 1080p pjs

I don't think those links are right, the first one selects all 1080p leds, the second link selects all 1080p lcds, it doesn't select LED, so when I do it, I get 25 1080p DLP LED pjs, and I get just 1 1080p LCD LED pj, the one from CRE.

1080p DLP LED pjs - 25
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15

1080p LCD LED pjs - 1
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15

1080p LED pjs - 26
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15
post #1035 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

On the CRE site they have 74 different versions of this projector! All with almost the same specs. The price does vary, but the limited specs do not tell which lens and other changes some of them have.

What site are you going to? When I go the CRE manufacturer's website, they only list one of the CRE-X1000, their "online catalog" shows 8 different projectors but doesn't show any of their model variations that I see.

Here are the ones they list:

Mini V300
CRE103HT
GQX60SPL
GQX90SPL
CRE X208
CRE X205
CRE X200
CRE X1000
post #1036 of 1270
http://www.cre-projector.cn/search/p...archText=x1000

do a search for x1000 74 results. all individual page locations and most overlaping.
post #1037 of 1270
that just looks like an alibaba sales site.

When I google "cre-x1000" their main website comes up in the second link.
although certainly not the nicest website in the world, at least it's not littered with cloned items.

http://www.crdzkj.com/proen/ledty/
post #1038 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0a0b View Post

I don't think those links are right, the first one selects all 1080p leds, the second link selects all 1080p lcds, it doesn't select LED, so when I do it, I get 25 1080p DLP LED pjs, and I get just 1 1080p LCD LED pj, the one from CRE.

1080p DLP LED pjs - 25
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15

1080p LCD LED pjs - 1
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15


1080p LED pjs - 26
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15

ya the last time i changed it i made it worse.I put led in front of bulbed(LOL),my point being that lcd is the lowest end(IMO at least) as far as tech goes and that there are allmost as many 1080p dlp/led pjs as there are 1080p lcd pjs
there are 206 1080p dlp pjs
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=%24&sz=15
post #1039 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0a0b View Post

that just looks like an alibaba sales site.

When I google "cre-x1000" their main website comes up in the second link.
although certainly not the nicest website in the world, at least it's not littered with cloned items.

http://www.crdzkj.com/proen/ledty/

Thanks. I thought There was a better site. Their site only lists one model of X1000 there used to be at least 3 versions. Not sure how many there are now.
post #1040 of 1270
I'm reading this thread for almost a week (there are a LOT of posts!!) because I'm intended to buy a new projector to replace my QUMI.

I'm searching for a projector with more lumens and.... why not a better resolution ?! heheh
So I'm thinking on:
- the Acer K330 (from 140 real ansi lumens [qumi] to 340 [k330]) keeping the same 720p resolution; or...
- the X1000PX with more resolution, more lumens and with less reliable information and reviews :-)

I've asked CRE Hans about the ANSI lumens, once I thought 3000lumens could not be correct... See his answer:

Dear Ricardo:

Thanks for your message . I just come back from business travel ,sorry for late reply.

We received your three message ,let me answers as below:
1) X1500: 3500lumens=1200Ansi lumens . Its LCD is from Taiwan ,and LED is from Osram
2) X1000 : we have NXL and PX(new model) now .NXL is 1000ANsi lumens ; PX is 800Ansi lumens ,Yes ,it is EPSON 3LCD + PT120 3LED . The yellow issue were solved 6months ago . They are selling very well and work very well

Please e-mail me : sales@cre-projector.cn
Wait for your reply.


Considering that the max ansi lumens informed should be reached without a correct color balance, I think we could assume something like 600...650 real ansi lumens for the X1000PX (new model, once I think it should have some "fixes" from the NXL model)
What do you think about this.... assumption?

Well... comparing it with Qumi, it would be like 5 times the ansi lumens that I have today... plus the 1080p resolution.

Do you think the 600-650 ansi lumens would be enouth to be able to watch some tv channels with lights on? I know that movies would be great just with lights of and controlled ambient lights :-)

Today, with 140 lumens, I'm able to use computer on Qumi during the day with window and door opened... so I think 600 lumens should be really better...
post #1041 of 1270
I would go back to page 34 of this thread and LOOK at the pictures and check youtube and see if there are any videos posted. The original issue with this was the Blue LCD panel overheated and caused the yellow spots. It also may have had something to do with SMJ mounting the unit on top of his stereo receiver and that could have preheated the air coming into the projector. There are pretty large cooling fins along with the fans which I believe is one of the reasons that they say the unit is so quiet. The explanation of the lumens converted to ansi Lumens explains somethings but I am guessing that you won't be able to get more than 700 or so Lumens in video mode but that i just a guess on my part. This level of brightness should be pretty usable in most semi lit environments. From what I have read Hans at the factory has been accessible and has worked out any technical issues in a responsible way. I think this thing is cutting edge for what it does in its price range.

Bohanna
post #1042 of 1270
First off, I've followed this thread from the very beginning, because ever since AMD released Eyefinity (back in 09), I've been on the lookout for a reasonably priced native fHD (1080p) LED projector. Up until this thread came up, there was nothing. You were looking at 10-15k per projector for the DLP models, which so far, unfortunately, has always been way out of my price range especially when you're looking at two or three. So along came this thread, not just telling me about a projector that I've been searching for exists, but that someone out there actually owns one , and is happy with it (after a bit of work, thanks SMJ). I was ecstatic. But there's still one catch, you have to buy direct from China. I don't want to do that, most of the people I know don't want to do that either, and from many of the earlier comments, neither do most of you guys.

It just so happened I was in a position to possibly do something about this, so I said why not, let's see if we can make this happen. I work for BHCH, the company selling these on Amazon. We have an office in China, I work in the US office. I called up the china office, told them what was going on, had them check CRE out (turns our our office and theirs are in the same city), verified it, then had them order a few pjs and send them to the US office. They did it because they knew if they didn't sell I'd eventually buy them up anyway.

So yes, the Amazon listings are mine, I created them. There are two, both the CRE-X1000NX and the CRE-X1000PX (from the box you can really only tell via the barcode, one digit difference)

ninguemrj is right, those are the only two versions that I'm aware of as well. The main difference is that the NX model (also called NXL) is a long throw version, and PX model is a short throw version, however, the PX model only lists 2800 Lumen and a 50,000:1 contrast ratio vs the NX model which lists 3000 Lumen and a 100,000:1 contrast ratio.

They had originally planned for a few other models including the NXS which would've been the short throw version of the NX but for whatever reasons decided to limit production of the CRE-X1000 to the NX(L) and PX model for now.

I have to say entering into the projector market isn't the easiest thing in the world and I give huge credit to CRE for doing what they're doing. Also, Amazon is definitely not the best place to try to sell a projector like this. When I listed the CRE-X1000 it was the only native 1080p LED projector, but amazon doesn't let you filter or sort via native resolution, so an amazon search for "native 1080p led projector" listed the CRE-X1000 on page 16, never to be seen by anyone. What came up as the #1 search result was some crappy $300 projector that was 640x480 native that upscaled to 1080p followed by 100+ others that upscaled to 1080p. To make a long story short, in the two months that this projector has been listed, we've sold one (NX model), that's right one, count them one. (Technically, we could say two as I've purchased one of the PX models directly from us, and eventually I hope to purchase two more of them for eyefinity). So far the guy who purchased the NX model emailed us back saying he absolutely loves it. Interestingly enough, he hasn't yet written a review on it.

So why do we do this? We certainly aren't doing this for the money, or to get rich off it. Heck, after Amazon fees and shipping, we're barely breaking even on these things. Mainly, I did it because I wanted the projectors for myself, but I wasn't in any major rush, after all I've been waiting over two years so why not, besides, it's pretty cool to make or do something no one else has made or done. Thanks CRE for making a reasonably priced 1080p LED LCD projector while everyone else bailed the LED ship in its infancy for 3D, (that's where those two years went for the curious), and right now, we're the only ones in the US to currently sell these things, and as I've stated, I'm also one of the few (proud) owners of the first and so far only 1080p LED LCD projector on the market.

I'll be the first to admit, the CRE-X1000 may not be the perfect projector for some people, especially if you're looking to use a calibration certificate on it. It does, however, happen to be the perfect projector for me. If you're one of those other people, if you already know you're not going to be happy with it, due to it's lack of CMS or filter placement, then by all means, don't buy it, pick out one of those other 1080p LED projectors.

For those who are interested, I'll be happy to try and answer whatever questions I can.
post #1043 of 1270
bhch-dave,

do you have some way to test/confirm the real ansi lumens provided by this projector considering a well calibrated colors?

This is a important information to me take my final decision...

When I brought my QUMI there weren't any review about it. Additionaly, there were some reports of focus issue... (that really exist, but after it reaches its working temperature, everything keeps focused, once I use it in a ceiling mount... fixed position)

So with the confirmation of the lumens info, I'll be ready to buy mine :-)

I'm from Brazil but I'll be in Houston-TX from 29 April to 5 May. I'm intended to buy an unit shipping it to the hotel room :-)
But would it be extremely nice to be able to watch it working personaly first...
;-P
post #1044 of 1270
Additionally, Mr. Hans has sent me interesting information regarding lens, zoom and screen size for each distance:

This is really important to me once I would like to keep QUMI setup, 93in screen in my 3,50mts room. Today my QUMI is 3,05mts from the screen, with enought ventilation space behind it.

X1000PX:
Lens = F#2.0 ,Zoom 1.0-1.3 ,Optical Zoom 1.42X
Screen size vs. Distance:
64-77inch = 2m
80~96inch = 2.5m
96~116inch = 3m
112~135inch= 3.5m
128~155inch= 4m
145~175inch= 4.5m

X1000NXL:
Lens = F#2.0 ,Zoom 1.0-1.3 ,Optical Zoom 1.3X
Screen size vs. Distance:
43~48inch = 2m
54~65inch = 2.5m
65~78inch = 3m
76~92inch = 3.5m
87~105inch = 4m
97~117inch = 4.5m

Consiering this, the PX should be the one for me.
post #1045 of 1270
those are the same distances I have from hans, I can measure the px tonight and verify. As for real ansi lumens, I don't currently have any light measurement tools at the moment but I was thinking of picking up/ordering an inexpensive meter.
post #1046 of 1270
Congratulations Dave on being a pioneer.

I noticed on the China factory site they have a 3 year warranty?

How does that work in the USA?

Also, does the projector need a totally blacked out room to look good or
can some ambient light be O.K.
post #1047 of 1270
Just remember ANSI lumens does not translate directly to calibrated lumens. Some projectors have well over 1000 ANSI lumens and still only calibrate to 300 lumens at D65.
Other projectors only have 700 ANSI lumens and calibrate to to well over 500+ lumends at D65.

One of the big issues here is the lack of CMS to change the colors. Unless that has been fixed the very limited adjustments did not allow the user to bring the unit within any type of acceptable limits (All based on the machine this thread refers to).

Even with powerstrip and Xrite software creating a profile the colors were still off more than most home theaters are out of the box.

Does anyone know if there is a CMS even if only for RGB?

Also what is the OSRAM ref? Do they also make a powerful LED chipset? I have not seen any in projectors yet. As far as I know all companies have gone with the PT-120 when using GRB LED.
post #1048 of 1270
Until someone comes up with definitive lumen standard that can be interdependently verified the folks in product marketing will continue to mislead and confuse the public. IN most cases there is no mention and measurement of the color temps used or the size of the image used when testing. Most projector manufacturers post their Lumen numbers implying the more lumens the better. Getting a lumen meter is kind of a waist of time unless you are going to be A/B comparing the exact same size images. My general rule of thumb is 120 watt UHP lamp 750 - 1000 lumens ,, 150 watt uhp 1200-1800 lumens 200 watt UHP 1900-2500 and so on. I know its not really scientific but it gives the user a pretty good idea of how bright a projector is going to be.. The Cre seems to be bright enough to put up a good size and quality image in a semi dark room. Since most of the people who are interested in the product are attracted by the lifetime LED it seems like a pretty good bargain. My only concern would be the organic panels vrs the inorganic panels.

Bohanna
post #1049 of 1270
the cre weighs 11lbs, most dlp/led are 30-100 lbs,I assume its for cooling in most cases ,the pt 120 is water cooled in some pjs(most?) AFAIK.
post #1050 of 1270
my point being that the led needs some serious cooling to pump out any light.
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