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CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 36

post #1051 of 1242
4/18/12 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Until someone comes up with definitive lumen standard that can be interdependently verified the folks in product marketing will continue to mislead and confuse the public. IN most cases there is no mention and measurement of the color temps used or the size of the image used when testing. Most projector manufacturers post their Lumen numbers implying the more lumens the better. Getting a lumen meter is kind of a waist of time unless you are going to be A/B comparing the exact same size images. My general rule of thumb is 120 watt UHP lamp 750 - 1000 lumens ,, 150 watt uhp 1200-1800 lumens 200 watt UHP 1900-2500 and so on. I know its not really scientific but it gives the user a pretty good idea of how bright a projector is going to be.. The Cre seems to be bright enough to put up a good size and quality image in a semi dark room. Since most of the people who are interested in the product are attracted by the lifetime LED it seems like a pretty good bargain. My only concern would be the organic panels vrs the inorganic panels.

Bohanna

You are correct about ANSI lumens, however, Runco has tried to solve this. It really only works for their projectors because no one lese uses it, but very useful when comparing theirs.

CSMS Cinema Standards Measurement System

http://www.runco.com/magic/csms-information/

Their numbers hold true as I have owned various models from Runco and Vidikron and the CSMS numbers show their numbers work.
Also it depends on how much a company inflates their numbers. I have a 700 ANSI lumen projector that calibrates to 435 Lumens at D65. My last one was 1280 lumens and calibrated to 485 lumens at D65. I have also had a stated 1250 ANSI lumen projector that calibrated to 400.

Eat Meat

Chi-Lin based LED projectors are water cooled (SIM2, Vango, wolf, etc) DP, PD, Runco, and others use the Delta chassis and that is cooled with 6 80mm fans. 3 intake and 3 exhaust!
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post #1052 of 1242
4/19/12 at 5:00am
New answer from Han. I have asked about color calibration:

Hello,Ricardo:

All right . X1000-PX hasn't color calibration issue .It is new version.

1) Yes ,they have same menu.
2) Yes ,you can change each color by remote or menu .If you are not professional , please don't do this.

In fact , In AVS forum ,there are some Hot-Fans on NEW projector ,some of them are very professional .

We don't have plan to upgrade its software . If any wrong upgrade by your engineer , it has to be sent back to us for correction .



SMJ,

Have you sure thare is no way to change each color in your projector? Calibrating them from projector side and not from computer side?
Could you post some menu's picture regarding color, image quality and etc?
Do you have some PDF version of the menu (all pages) to send it to me?

As Mr. Hans has answered, both versions should be able to do this color calibration on pj.

Now... to confirm if the colors are better calibrated in the PX model, someone will need to buy one... hehehehe maybe me... hehehe
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post #1053 of 1242
4/19/12 at 11:01am
There used to be a link to the manual. I am not sure if it is still on line. well never mind it was hosted on megaupload.... so no luck there.

From rereading SMJ's posts there were no direct controls that he could use for RGB, just color and tint and few others, but I do not remember what was in the manual.
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post #1054 of 1242
4/19/12 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninguemrj View Post

New answer from Han. I have asked about color calibration:

Now... to confirm if the colors are better calibrated in the PX model, someone will need to buy one... hehehehe maybe me... hehehe

For what its worth. I believe the best way to judge a projector is the way it does flesh tones. This is why I get slightly annoyed when I see a lot of people posting animated and or CG type movies on youtubeeeeee, The two main movies most people seem to use are Avatar and Ice age. The pictures of this projector with a 106 inch screen on page 33 seem to show a pretty decent image and I imagine the newer models of this projector are even better. Another point to consider is that the higher the lumen output the more you will get grays instead of blacks since the original LED light sources are basically white lights even through they say they are RGB chips. If I were in the market for a projector I would buy one of these in a heartbeat, But since I have a lifetime supply of UHP lamps I will be sticking to my Old faithfull Sanyo.

Bohanna
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post #1055 of 1242
4/19/12 at 8:53pm
I'll see if i can scan the manual and upload it somewhere,

I own (purchased) one of the PX models. So far I absolutely love it. I actually went through the AVS HD 709 basic calibration http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post12373254 and from the default settings I did not have to change anything to get the flashing color bars calibrated (using a blue filter). I did have to adjust the brightness and contrast some as i was projecting onto nothing but a regular light grey painted wall (90 inch diagonal), during a sunny midday in a living room with the windows unshaded. It was definately watchable, as the day went on it just kept getting better.

I've also been thinking of doing some simple videos, like an unboxing, sample video straight out of the box, going through the onscreen menu, etc.
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post #1056 of 1242
4/19/12 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhch-dave View Post

I'll see if i can scan the manual and upload it somewhere,

I own (purchased) one of the PX models. So far I absolutely love it. I actually went through the AVS HD 709 basic calibration http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post12373254 and from the default settings I did not have to change anything to get the flashing color bars calibrated (using a blue filter). I did have to adjust the brightness and contrast some as i was projecting onto nothing but a regular light grey painted wall (90 inch diagonal), during a sunny midday in a living room with the windows unshaded. It was definately watchable, as the day went on it just kept getting better.

I've also been thinking of doing some simple videos, like an unboxing, sample video straight out of the box, going through the onscreen menu, etc.

Please, send us all material that you have time to produce :-)
It will help more people to take their decision on buying it. (like me hehhe)

Would be great have more pictures with natural sunny ligh and in darkeness. I would appreciate if you were able to send the manual and the on screen menu captures.
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post #1057 of 1242
4/19/12 at 11:47pm
Here's the gist of the manual scans, i left out a few pages that relate to some of the other models, as the manual is slightly generic, also if i remember right, the on screen display is just slightly different than what's pictured. the included remote is slight different than what's pictured in the manual, i think it's an improvement) with that being said, here's what i scanned, i'm apologizing in advance for any problems with the scans, (pages got all out of order, but they're numbered).

http://www.flickr.com/x/t/0092009/ph...7629493495744/
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post #1058 of 1242
4/20/12 at 7:31am
Here are some Test Pattern Pics from the avs video http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629859835083/ and sample shots taken from HSN HD http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629859872871/

Both of these sets were taken with the windows open, projecting onto just a plain wall. You can see the windows on both sides of the projected image, it's fairly bright outside.
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post #1059 of 1242
4/20/12 at 12:39pm
I am new to this forum but have read most of the posts for this projector. I have interested in for some time and I just ordered a Cre X1000 (the one that as the 3000 lumens and 100000 contrast ratio) from Han. This my 3rd. projector. I am replacing a Sanyo PLV Z4 which seems to have died.
All I get from it right now is vertical stripes and can't any further. When It comes in and get it and installed I will post my feelings about it.
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post #1060 of 1242
4/20/12 at 2:23pm
Great pictures.

If that is the manual there is NO CMS.. There is color and sat etc. but not individual color control.

I have to say those look much better the the one SMJ had, but without a spectro or tristim it is hard to tell how close it really is.

I like how they upped the output to 3,000-3,500.

Does the PJ have lens shift? There was a page called image shift? I do not mean keystone.
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post #1061 of 1242
4/20/12 at 2:47pm
that is the manual, but it's generic for a few models, the on screen menu on mine is slightly different than what's shown in the manual
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post #1062 of 1242
4/21/12 at 7:41am
Here's a few more pics, one of the remote control http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629866528635/ the onscreen menu http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629866435383/ and some of the same calibration pics as before, just in the evening. http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629501718142/
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post #1063 of 1242
4/21/12 at 7:50am
I don't believe there is distinct color calibration, if there is i haven't seen it yet.

As for the image shift feature, it's the little turn dial/knob on the top. It raises and lowers the projected image (it shifts the image vertically). It's actually a lot handier than I thought it would be.
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post #1064 of 1242
4/21/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhch-dave View Post

I don't believe there is distinct color calibration, if there is i haven't seen it yet.

As for the image shift feature, it's the little turn dial/knob on the top. It raises and lowers the projected image (it shifts the image vertically). It's actually a lot handier than I thought it would be.

That is actually lens shft, which is much better for picture quality than Keystone correction.

It maybe Hans' terms but he says full color control or calibration. Without CMS or idividual color controls if it is out of spec, and no projector is perfect out of the box, you cannot correct. Even as the LEDs age you cannot truely correct and yes LEDs do age, just much slower.
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post #1065 of 1242
4/21/12 at 8:26am
Dave,

What calibrating disc, or images are you using? I like the RGB ramps with the white in them.
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post #1066 of 1242
4/21/12 at 11:02am
AVSHD 709

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496
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post #1067 of 1242
4/21/12 at 11:11am
Thanks. I did not realize those ramps were on ther. I ave used the disc before, just not the "stand alone patterns"
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post #1068 of 1242
4/25/12 at 4:40am
New answer about color calibration.

1) Is color tone the menu option that permits to change the color balance? Could you send me a screen shot from this option, once there is no details about it on the user manual you sent me?

2) And what the color temperature stands for? Is it an information about the led chip temperature in Celsius or Fahrenheit?


Hello,Ricardo:

1) You may find "Color Tone" on the screen menu .I just checked with our engineer , it can adjust by this function ,but no obvious change if you adjust here .

Another way is : By rmotr control ,press 1,2,3,4 continuously . You will find some word showing on the up-left corner .
See attached file "1" ;
Pls go to "NON-Liner ,then "Confirm" (The button for confirm which is at the right of button " Menu ") ,You will see "2" ;
Then go to "Brightness" ,and "confirm " ; you will see file "3" ,you can adjust the color temperature by adjusting here .

2) it is Celsius .

Any inquiry ,pls let me know .

file 1:
Attachment 244533

file 2:
Attachment 244534

file 3:
Attachment 244535

In another email he told me that he doesn't know what brightness 0 to 4 stands for and asked to test when I receive mine X1000NLX (next week).

He authorized me to share this featured engineer menu here in this AVS forum topic.

Who already owns this PJ please test it and send us your feedback!!

Ricardo Jr.
LL
LL
LL
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post #1069 of 1242
4/25/12 at 4:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhch-dave View Post

Here's a few more pics, one of the remote control http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629866528635/ the onscreen menu http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629866435383/ and some of the same calibration pics as before, just in the evening. http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629501718142/

Thanks for the pictures !!!
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post #1070 of 1242
4/25/12 at 8:59am
Quote:


2) And what the color temperature stands for? Is it an information about the led chip temperature in Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Quote:


2) it is Celsius .

yikes......that response..............
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post #1071 of 1242
4/25/12 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

yikes......that response..............

I thought that was high too at first, until I went to Luminus's website and looked up the datasheet for the PT-120 LEDs. Apparently it's way within it's designed operating temps, If I've read this right, it actually makes me think this thing will long outlast 60k hours.

Quote:


In this case, we will design for the maximum recommended continuous drive condition at the recommended junction temperatures to achieve a 60,000 hour lifetime. Thus, we will need to keep the red LED junction temperature below 80 ºC and the blue and green junction temperatures below 120 ºC.

http://www.luminus.com/resource/down...malAppNote.pdf
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post #1072 of 1242
4/25/12 at 2:18pm
color temp has nothing to do with Fahrenheit or Celsius........


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_temperature
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post #1073 of 1242
4/25/12 at 4:07pm
Color Temp is given in Kelvin, but is also a 3D point in space and that is why it is defined as D65 and not as 6500K

One thing the brightness could be is a brightness or output level for RGB and an overall white level. If this is true you could actually calibrate the projector through these controls. This is only a guess.

This menu is the service menu and will be able to help with a lot of functions just becareful that you take pictures of the original settings unless there is a factory reset. There are lots of horror stories on the display calibration forum here of people who have completely screwed their TV or projector up because they could not remember settings that worked and what they did resulted in an unwatchable display.
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post #1074 of 1242
4/25/12 at 8:09pm
I must've read Ninguemrj's question the same as d0a0b, in the normal onscreen menu, there are a series of color temps but they don't specify C or F.

Therefore when Hans responded back with just Celsius, it made perfect sense.

Quote:


2) And what the color temperature stands for? Is it an information about the led chip temperature in Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Also, seeing as how the question was worded, it certainly doesn't appear that Ninguemrj was asking about the actual "Color Temperature" in Kelvin.

I've verified the CRE-X1000PX model also has the "service" menus (simply pushing the 1, 2, 3, 4, sequentially once each brought it up for me), here's a few pics of the service menus and me adjusting the R down to 30 and again up to 255 and at at the default 128, and then the R offset down to 0, up to 255, and back to 128. I've also changed the color tone settings and then went back to this setting, to see what changes occurred at the different color tone settings http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629537354674/ it certainly seems to me like this may be some of that CMS some of you were requesting.

As for the "non-linear" sections, such as brightness levels 0-4, contrast, saturation, sharpness, and volume settings, it appears to me (and I could be wrong) to be a ladder stepping that doesn't effect the screen directly but rather it allows you to set the low, medium low, medium, medium high and high settings for each of these "steps".

For those who venture forth to change these settings, obviously you do so at your own risk. In the normal menu under the "system" tab there is a setting to recall memory, but i do not know if it will revert all settings or only those listed in the basic menu. Worth a try though if you get in over your head.

I forgot to mention, there also are a few handy test patterns in the service menu, White, Red, Green, Blue, Cyan, Magenta, Black, and Crosshatch
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post #1075 of 1242
4/25/12 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

For what its worth. I believe the best way to judge a projector is the way it does flesh tones. This is why I get slightly annoyed when I see a lot of people posting animated and or CG type movies on youtubeeeeee, The two main movies most people seem to use are Avatar and Ice age. The pictures of this projector with a 106 inch screen on page 33 seem to show a pretty decent image and I imagine the newer models of this projector are even better. Another point to consider is that the higher the lumen output the more you will get grays instead of blacks since the original LED light sources are basically white lights even through they say they are RGB chips. If I were in the market for a projector I would buy one of these in a heartbeat, But since I have a lifetime supply of UHP lamps I will be sticking to my Old faithfull Sanyo.

Bohanna

Yes.

D6500 doesnt necessarily mean good color. D6500 merely means a "true" white point. What's going on inside this good white can be entirely different. I have an Epson 6500. I can calibrate a torch mode to 6500 on white fields, but the color is still WAY off. Just because you have a 6500 white point doesnt automatically mean the colors are displaying properly.

You have to have 6500 kelvin white/gray, AS WELL AS good/true color. They are separate things. Anyone who has a projector with a proper CMS knows that you can have 6500 white, and really skew the colors while maintaining the white point. This is proof that they are separate, and can be off if not careful. Just because you have the white point properly set doesn't mean it will look right.

This is what annoys me about projectors saying that they are calibrated to 6500k. It's only 'half' the story.
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post #1076 of 1242
4/26/12 at 8:43am
I wonder if the RGB is the gain and then the offset would be the low end about 30% IRE.. gain is usually around 80% IRE.

This would allow you to calibrate and make this a much much better projector.
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post #1077 of 1242
4/26/12 at 8:33pm
Based on this post and others I've seen, I believe you may just be right about that, rovingtravler. Offset seems to be another of the many terms used to describe the RGBLowEnd.

Quote:


Color temp is basically a number/ point given to a various level of the gray scale. You display patterns with various degrees of light intensity from 0 IRE (Black) to 100 IRE (white) and everything in between is some intensity of gray. Typically a calibrator picks a pattern between 20-30 IRE and adjusts the offsets and then picks a pattern between 75-100 IRE pattern and adjusts the gains. The gains and offests do interact and you need to repeat adjusting the gains/ offsets until you get close to D6500 (often referred to as 6500k for simplification to consumers but it isn't technically accurate, D65 is acceptable). Then once a calibrator gets close to D6500 he will verify the whole grayscale and see how the changes are affecting all the IRE levels.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archi.../t-838079.html

Quote:


Display controls you will need to use

Most CRT and digital projectors or TVs as well as LCD, DLP, and Plasma flat panel displays have the necessary controls to have their greyscale calibrated. In your projector or TV we will be adjusting four controls to set greyscale correctly. It's important that you locate these controls and be familiar with them:

Brightness: The control used to adjust black level. Setting brightness too low will cause darker details to be lost into black (called 'black crush'). Setting brightness too high will cause the black to appear grey. Brightness affects all colours at the same time.
Contrast: The control used to adjust white level or peak light output. Setting contrast too low will result in a dim picture. Contrast set too high can cause lighter details to be lost into white (called 'white clipping') or blooming/smearing. Contrast affects all colours at the same time. Some manufacturers call it 'Picture'.
RGB LowEnd: The control used to adjust the amount of individual Red, Green, or Blue colour in the darker end of the black to white scale. Think of it as an individual brightness control for each colour. Manufacturers all use a different name for this control though 'Cut', 'Cutoff' and 'Bias' are the most common terms used. I will refer to this control as 'RGBLowEnd' in this guide to avoid any confusion.
RGB HighEnd: The control used to adjust the amount of individual Red, Green, or Blue colour in the lighter end of the black to white scale. Think of it as an individual contrast control for each colour. Manufacturers all use a different name for this control though 'Drive' and 'Gain' are the most common terms used. I will refer to this control as 'RGBHighEnd' in this guide just to avoid any confusion.
All displays have brightness and contrast controls. If your projector or TV has RGBLowEnd and RGBHighEnd controls for Red, Green, and Blue, then you will also be able to calibrate your greyscale.

Since different manufacturers use different names for the RGBLowEnd and RGBHighEnd controls, refer to your user manual and look for a section on "greyscale", "white balance", or "colour temperature" adjustment to see what they're called for your display. If you own a CRT projector, you can access your user manual in the Tech Tips section of our main site.

The more popular names typically used for the two controls are:

RGBLowEnd: Bias, Offset, Cuts, Cutoff, Sub-brightness, RGB brightness
RGBHighEnd: Drive, Gain, Sub-contrast, RGB contrast

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Perhaps it's time to update that amazon review?
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post #1078 of 1242
4/28/12 at 10:30am
I downloaded some of the 1080p sample content from microsoft from this link http://www.highdefforum.com/high-def...clip-list.html

Here are some pics from midday.






Here's the full set http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629918868815/
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post #1079 of 1242
4/28/12 at 11:42pm
Also took some night shots:
















Full Set Here http://www.flickr.com/photos/7926221...7629922931345/
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post #1080 of 1242
4/29/12 at 10:21am
Thank you for the day & night pictures Dave.

This projector is now back on my Xmas list.

Is it just my monitor or is there sort of a blue/red predominance. Did not see
a lot of rich green in the picture content.

Have owned or had older projectors that cost more that did not look as good as this already does in your photos.

Again, thank you for your time and work.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys?