CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 40

That does not metter. At first I used HDMI for X1000 connection and noticed that kinde of picture. But you are right. To compare two projectors, I connected X1000 through S-VIDEO and through COMPOSIT the other. Bouth from one source, caurse I have no HDMI splitter.

Its OK to test the X1000 using composite, but I think that if you're testing the projector it would probably be best if you did not introduce other unknowns by plugging the L/R audio from your source into the component video connections of the projector as it "might" do weird things as they're not designed for that purpose and its best to rule out all possibilities. But if you have already tried using HDMI (hopefully without the same L/R audio in the component video) and the picture was just as bad then that must mean your projector is faulty.

Sorry, did not understand that joke about plugging L/R audio in composit or component. Don`t think my proj is faulty. Jast all setting is in the middle positions to look out native white color mixing of RGB LEDs.

LED... your projector might be faulty as others have posted and their picture has never been that bad... out of the box or after adjustment.

I would call or email Hans and have him replace it. At the very least you will have a new projector. I understand the amps and ohms etc. My Runco is running at 40 plus amps for the LEDs so yes you could drive them harder assuming the rest of the boards and components could handle the added power.

Great pictures!

Have you thought about the Viewsonic LED laser hybrid? It is full HD and very bright.

Thanks rovingtravler. I have already conversation with Hans and sent him that photos. He said everything is OK, oh that chinese...
Today shall put LM317 on their places and exam at the evening. And thanks for advice. That X1000 is not mine, am an insuller.
About amperes... I`ve got a LEDs driver scheme from the plate. It`s absolutely stupid.

No, it wasn't a joke. It could be seen in your pic here (the one below) that you have plugged the L/R audio cables into 2 of the component video inputs, while you were using a composite video signal to test the projector. You never know with this projector, but anything could happen - even though you have chosen composite video as the source input there is still a chance that sending an audio signal through the component inputs at the same time could drive it nuts!

Hi, LEDMASTER.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post the photos here. In one of the previous post you said "I discovered some suspisious, not soldered connector on main board. It looks like separate PWM controll to RGB LEDs." Do you know if PWM is still used on 100% brighthness on this projector? I assume you'll have no difficulty to find out if yours is still in working order. When I asked the topicstarter (sellmejunk) to test for PWM, he reported he couldn't detect it even at 0% brightness, which seemed suspicious, since I woud not presume they used DC dimming on this model. Hans CRE, on the other hand, said that PWM is used at full brightness range, even at 100%. When I asked what was the reason to use PWM at 100% brightness, he did not reply.

Indeed it is. So this is how they "solved" buishness of the overall image - by shunting the blue LED with a plank of resistors.

Sorry for mistake in my previous post. Resistors in current regulator on the lm317 actually 2.4 Ohm. Thus, each provides current of 1 ampere. I installed 6 to the already established 12 lm317 and now total current has reached 18 amps. In order to protect the green LED from the overload, I shunted it with self-made resistor of CR-doped wire, which I placed in the hole in radiator of blue LED. In addition, I installed the additional fan to the heatsink of red LED and power it parallel to the main via 20 Ohm, to reduce the noise from it. Now a proj consumes 190 Watts, and colors are balanced and 1.5 times brighter. Thanks to ROVINGTRAVLER`s information.
To B-2Admirer
Hans is not an engineer, but simply a dealer and a liar, like all merchants, and, besides, Chinese. No any pwm there is not in sight. As you can see on my scheme from the previous post, there are two stages of a current of 9 and 18 amps. 9 ampere is served only and exclusively in the absence of any input signal and the absence of pictures of any menus. In all other cases, the current is stable by analog stabilizers and amounts to 12 amperes, and in my case, 18 amps. By the way, in the previous posts I read a letter from Hans, in which he pointed out that the optical path is closed and dustpruf. This is also a lie. There are a lot of gaps in optic construction. Photo, confirming it will be introduced a little later. And at the same time, the waveform at gates of RPF50N06, is completely smooth, there is no pulse. Therefore no modulation too.
As I already wrote, the quality of the lens disgusting and my client, I'm afraid, will kick my... So I decided to order from ebay Isco-Optic Ultra Star HD Projector Lens MC f= 48mm - 1.89"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Isco-Optic-Ultra-Star-HD-Projector-Lens-MC-f-48mm-1-89-/110989614578?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D4253087752129669140%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D9%26sd%3D121030151160%26

Sure, but he claimed he consulted their engineer. He even stated the frequency of PWM (280 Hz), so I assumed it was true. In that case, how is the brightness adjustment done? The only possible way I see is by LCD panels, at the expense of contrast. But people say this projector has separate brightness and contrast settings, so I'm confused, unless it's done in your typical Chinese way - two different settings do exactly the same thing. So, do you think that after refurbishment it could possibly make a good projector usable as a monitor? Right now I see three huge problems with it: 1) poor quality optics, 2) pixel misconvergence as the result of imprecise panel alignment, 3) unsealed optical path, now that you discovered it. The last problem can, probably, be solved with relative ease, but what about the first two?

Glad the info helped. I have to say the electrical engineering at this point is above me, but you should be modding boards. I would love to send you my Runco and have the amps pumped up on the LEDs to Sim2 Mico levels... Sim runs their LED projectors even harder and they do get about 10 to 30% more lumens out of them. Also with the low price of the LED chipset if they ever did fail it would not cost much to replace.

It will be interesting to see the fixed projector vs the original and the difference in quality and brightness.

Yes I modified a power LEDs PCB with 6 additional LM317 and some current setting resistors
.
rovinftraveler, You write that the diodes in RANKO consumes current about 40 amps. I understand that each LED is on 13 amps. Maximum continuous current to PT120, according to LUMINUS pdf., should not exceed 18 amps. At observance of a temperature mode, the red LED can be driven of up to 20 amps. When it is a good bin you can get around 1225 lumens from it. For correct primary white balance, it needs to provide about 2700 lumens from green LED, and the blue one is about 400 lumens respectively. It will allow to create the initial luminous flux 1250+2700+400=4350 lumens.
Depending on the design of the light focusing system, losses could be from 20 to 40 percent. On the DLP matrix will be lost some about 10 per cent. The optical system can be up to 30 per cent lost. And of caurse temperature loses of light is about 20 percents. Thus, the light stream at the output of the projector can be expected approximately 0.30 - 0.4 from the original light streem, or 1320 - 1740 lumens. Of course these figures are very approximate.

As pomised, current shunt in blue LED heatsink (black wire)




Additional fan


Gaps in optic path




About PWM in next post.
Edited by LEDMASTER - 12/20/12 at 12:14pm

@LEDMASTER Great job breaking it down by the way, been wanting to do that but was pretty sure nothing could be fixed.

Curious how do you know this will work with that projector? Might be interested in trying this on mine as I use it for data projection, but have no idea what to order or what to install.

One thing to keep in mind is technology is a moving target, so there is always stuff on the drawing board... like the 2 new models limited production samples In talking with Han, seeing spec sheet, have several pluses over the V1000X, and probably share many of the same parts (e.g. PCB board), I have seen pictures from Han off these working samples, that show these features:

* independent control of R/G/B at the power to led level, this will help get the right color balance,
it's unclear how this is configured, ideally I'd like it associated with a preset so for example a daylight full brightness and nighttime dimmer brightness would be useful. without a neutral density filter
* the convergence is much improved (the lcd's apparently aren't glued on anymore and can be adjusted after), this if fixed will help increase contrast of things like text, which were artificially low as the RGB pixels overlapped.
* the feather dark edges on the sides (especially left side) has been much improved. though the green edge might still be there.
* horizontal shift of like 20% left and right. via a mechanical dial similar to the current vertical one, 20% isn't quite as flexibile but so be it.
* one model slightly brighter than NX (new LED source) like 50 ansi lumen more. Probably not that noticeable.
* significant less cost than the 1000NX (~$1200, vs ~$1600).

I'm pretty excited about the synergy of improvements. I have been back and forth with Han over getting photos of the new units in action and if good will be getting a couple. But I'm being cautious as it's still preproduction, and there isn't a return policy.

Han is a salesman so largely interested in what can get the next sale, but only what is necessary for that, His english is poor, so some of what is experienced is he doesn't understand what's being asked (I've had to ask some simple questions like 3 different ways). Pretty much every tech question he seems he has to run by his engineer.

So very believable - much better unit for a much lower price. A Chinese miracle in the making.

Jast some color tests after LEDs driver modding. Test tables and PWM a bit later.
LEDs temp after 3 hours working.



Settings are not precisely calibrated yet

Not that amazing or miraculous. Everything I described is an reasonable incremental improvement over what the at least year old 1000NX had and may very well be the same circuit board, heatsink, lens etc.

Cre largely assembles projectors out of others parts that do the majority of the hard work, which is where the real innovation has been (LED sources, LCD panels hidef) the rest is the same as projectors that Cre has been making for however long they've been in business, so I'm a bit honestly amazed the 1000Nx had the reasonably issues it had (convergence, feathering), as none of these cost all that much to fix, but perhaps they had to commit to something.

The cost really isn't' that big of deal once you understand how China/Manufacturing works. The parts costs on these things aren't that high (probably $300-$500 in bulks), it's the manufacturing and startup costs (dies, factories, crew) that have to be made up, and when they order 100 to 10000 at a time, have to use up the stock or it's a loss. So while they would love to charge as much as the market will bear, they are not the only HD projector out there now, and have to be competitive to other projectors also out or coming out and costing less to survive 2013.

It still doesn't support 3d though the lcd chips support it, and the LED source wouldn't care. DisplayPort isn't on the roadmap, they don't even know what it is.

Do you have photos of LED? I think this projector have not PT120 but PT54. May be inside this projector white 50W chinese led's with RGB color filters
Same joke from "Mr. Cre" as with D7 from Epson...

Hi guys, although none of you know me, I have been following this thread for quite some time now. I am no genius in the field, therefore I prefer to listen, rather than contribute. I actually stuck around since "SellMeJunk" started this post. I basically stuck around to see if CRE could fix the faults on the x1000. I want one, but $1600 is extremely steep for South Africans, wanted to make sure it is worth it.
"TroyWorks" spoke about two new models that CRE is working. I came across these models on Alibaba:

X2000-NX : 2000 lumens and 6000:1 contrast = $1200
X2000-PX : 2500 lumens and 5000:1 contrast = $1100 (for some reason cheaper than NX)
X2000-VX : 3000 lumens and 4000:1 contrast = $1300

I see the contrast according to spec sheet have dropped quite a lot. From 50,000/100,000, depending on model, to 4000/5000/6000, depending on model.
Do you think it is that much worse, or just now bit more realistic?

Are these the models you were talking about?
Does anyone know anything about them yet?

Price looks more affordable, just wondering if CRE sorted all the X1000 issues. If you have some info, please shed some light on the subject.

Belrex,

The models I talked with Han about were the X2000. Which is per his engineer a less quality machine than the NX1000, with newer/cheaper but I guess less quality, with is why it costs less. Though ironically is better in some metrics than X1000.

Contrast is largely related to how bright it is, higher output, generally lower contrast as it's hard to keep light from bouncing around inside. I don't think the contrast is that good honestly across the line, largely as black levels are hard to do with LCD's in general, without fancy irises and the like.

I saw photos of the X2000 output, which took many tries as Han couldn't understand nor had a decent camera to show the pixels up close.
The convergence issue is better but not fixed. That was a deal breaker for me to purchasing it for data. But in watching movies/tv it's really not that big of deal for me.
The feathering issue on the sids appears to be much better...this is one of the most annoying things about the NX1000 that constantly distracts me.
It has RGB color adjustment of the LED lights (not LCD), which is a major plus and could better correct the black levels.
The black level is mediocre, probably not a major issue if you don't have anything else, when watching.
Though the D7 dispay panel supports it, the electronics doesn't support 3d.
No planned support for displayport (so can't work as easily with newer laptops/macs)

Keep in mind this is a projector tech and display technology is pretty rapid, the LED light sources are starting to hit commodity rather than early adopter price points. DMD and LCD etc are starting to get integrated into phones. So I'd suggest waiting as long as you can before buying.

I'd probably choose the X2000 over the X1000 if I was doing so again, if only to get $1100 vs $1600, But retrospectively I think that for the same money, that sticking with DVD's for a few years and a 1-2 year old DVD res projector might be a better way to spend the money. But I seriously doubt that the X2000 and X1000 are that different in perceived quality both being sort of mediocre projectors in the grand scheme. To get the best out of a X2000, it's not just the projector, you need a blue ray player and a collection of hd/blue ray disks at much higher costs than DVD, especially used.

Basically if you can afford to wait do so, alternatively view the purchase as probably good for 2-5 years.

TroyWorks, you are wrong. There is no RGB color adjustment of the LED lights in X1000.

And more.
X2000, as i know, has full color 5 inch TFT LCD matrix and high power wite LED inside.

Troyworks.

Thank you for your reply and your input. Hans also told me that although it is cheaper, it is more stable than the X1000. I will still wait a while longer before I buy. Hopefully someone buys one and shares their experience with us.

I actually already have the blu-ray and quite a nice HTPC setup. All I still need is a nice projector. Problem is that I will be using it as my normal tv as well, therefore it must be LED. With technology evolving so fast, I think you can view any purchase as a 2 - 5 year thing. That's why I can't see how people can pay $7,000 - $9,000 for TV's that will be outdated within a year.

LEDMASTER

Is your statement above a good or bad thing? ( I am truly a novice)

Is the X2000 good or bad in your opinion?

As far as I know The cre x2000 doesn't use this technology.

FYI- ANY single screen TFT projector is a bad joke. These type projectors are generally in the White van scam category. Google it to learn more.

Bohanna

Yea, I see it
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Large-200inch-New-X2000-3LCD-3LED-1080P-Full-HD-LED-Laptop-Computer-Video-Projector-Proyector-1920x1080/727891899.html
On my opinion, that is the next generation of X1000, but less power and, therefore less light flow. Acording to max cunsuming power 90watts, I think the light flower from 3 LEDs at that circumstances can reach some 1500-1700 lm at correct wite balance. So output light flow wil be some 250-300 lm. It will provide around 250 nits (like on common monitor) on the screen 1 sq. meter, or 1.5 m diagonal. That is not bad for $1100-1200. But there will be no any dinamic regulation of the LEDs power for that money. So contrast ratio of LCD without diafragm and without dinamic power LEDs regulation will be very poor, some like 300-400 to 1. Dispite all this, it would be interesting to me to dig some X2000.

The X2000 DOES have (per han) control of RGB level, based on the shots he sent, if this is based on a single panel LCD that wouldn't explain the convergence issues in the photos I saw that look like the X1000 just better.

It says it clearly on the sales

"Red LED / Green LED / Blue LED : Stepless Adjustment !!!"

The sales doc still says 3LED, 3LCD, so I don't think this is a single panel.

Admittedly it won't be dynamic based on the image, but that's really sort of a hack anyway.

And this stepless adj is not interesting, caurse it will not increase contrast ratio, as dynamic does. There is no such LEDs as CG60 in LUMINUS.
http://luminus.com/applications/projection.html

actually it is interesting relative to the X1000 for 1) white balance, 2) black color balance (what you hacked in via the extra circuits). and for me 3) lumen dimability without a neutral density filter

But as I said before, with convergence issues and mediocre black/contrast was a deal breaker for my daylight data projection needs.

as interesting as it is, I'd rather wait 6 months to see what if any improvements they make and what competition is out. for instance the laser +LED based viewsonic keeps dropping in price and is dmd based (although only one DMD)

Checking in again after a few months, wow things have progressed alot since I bought my X1000 almost 2 years ago, i wish i had waited in some respect as i dont have advanced menu`s like the later models, tho really i cant complain as if i`d have had a standard projector like an epson or whatever i`d have had to have to buy 2x replacement bulbs for the hours i`ve run my x1000.So as far as i`m concerned this thing has paid for itself. One of the things i`m not so happy with is the 256watt power consumption (which is still lower than some projectors sure) but cause i run it every day 5-8 hours+ it does eat into my electric bill specially in UK where energy prices are increasing, I like the idea of the X2000 if it truly uses 90watts which would be awesome, but then again on my x1000 the spec sheet said it uses 160watts which turned out to be a lie; when in fact i measured it and it actually uses 265watts.
I`m not too technical, but have enjoyed the writeups which are wey over my head and the modifications done by Ledmaster. I know B-52 admirer asked me a question ages ago about screen flicker and doing a pencil test, i didnt see any flicker, but then again i`m not too good with magic eye puzzles; seemed fine to me.
I did have a scare a few months ago with the X1000, i turned it on one day and there was a huge vertical black line down the center of the screen but the next day the problem resolved itself and was fine, I havent had any issues since then, the x1000 is working great as my main PC monitor , TV.and PC gaming, tho i still cant get hdmi sound i.e xbox hooked up to it, which is a shame, otherwise i have to use the vga for picture and get the sound thru pc input or directly into my guitar amp.
I havent kept upto date on projector technology, i know theresy alot better projectors around these days which give better picture,, but for lamp life (50,000 Hours) and the ability to run it 12 hours straight (which i have) i doubt theres anything better for economy-wise..

I maybe a little late to the party on this subject, but i`ve discovered the factory menu!!
I`m really annoyed its taken me 2 years to find it!!! I had presumed i didnt have access to the factory menu, because i had asked Hans a bunch of times years ago, if there was a way to access the advanced hidden color factory menu, to which he didnt seem to understand the question, and just told me the normal brightness and contrast, saturation method which is self explanatory on the remote. wow i`m annoyed. It was only today whilst revisiting my old youtube clips of my 1st tests of the x1000, i saw the link to that swedish/ norway guys video where he opens it up, and there in the comments he says, press 1234!!! At this point i`m thinking what!!?? really??! no way he must be talking about the later model, but NO this fricking projector the orginal X1000 has a factory menu. I do remember someone has asked me to hold menu and try various combos of buttons but had no idea it would be fricking 1234
Anyways there not that many options here than the later models but however the options that peak my interest is RGB and the RGB Offset >? now i`m no techie, but does this mean i can adjust the white balance and get rid of this bluish effect ive put up with for the last 2 years or what!
Right now i have a under utilized videoeq pro and a calman color meter. Now i dont want to get my hopes up but according to this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1459179/do-rgb-gains-and-offsets-affect-gamma-or-white-balance offsets have something to do with white balance?
That link talks about offsets and gains, however the factory menu color temp setting doesnt list gains, right now the setting listed is as follows:
R 136
G 123
B 128
R Offset 133
G Offset 125
B Offset 128

i am a little apprehensive about fiddling with the settings, i would have to find some earlier posts where i think some owners suggested some settings,
maybe its something or maybe its nothing, but aw man would i like to wrap my hands round hans`` throat for not telling me or avoiding the question!!!

For me on the early x1000 the factory menu lists the following limited options>>
Source
ADC Adjust (which is greyed out)
Pic mode (which is already on the main remote) (nothing new)
Color temp (which has the RGB and offsets)
Sound Mode
EEPROM

Non Linear (already on remote, i.e brightness etc) (nothing new)
Mutli Language
SSC setting
VD Nonstandard
Other Option (which has stuff to do with VGA max, Hi def on,gain distance, delay reduce, auto kpki,kp1,ki1,kp2,ki2, cr lock thr, cr thr, and over mod) (non of these i know anything about)
Uart bus
Inner pattern

perhaps the owners of the later models see nothing of interest here, but for me this is a fricking revelation! LOL