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CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 5

post #121 of 1270
Thanks for all the shots, sellmejunk.
The color "fringing" on the hydrant is unscapable, however i think it may be due to the fact that you zoomed and used macro, which would make the pixel grid very/very noticeable; That's why i requested a close shot 4 feet away from screen without zoom, which should give us a fairer example, as shown in the requested picture.
From what i could see, this pj appears to have a moderate amount of misconvergence either from panel alignment or from the lens, although that is to be expected for 3 chips pjs, some displaying the problem more than others.
Black levels look very good; I went back reading test reports for the Epson D7 chip used with standard bulbs and it was about 0.00013 ft-L, which is excellent figure - i believe the lowest ever measured by the magazine was around 0.00006 ft-L for JVC's LCOS and Sony's top of the line SXRD chips. The question is : can we expect similar figures from Luminus Devices PT-120 LED chipset ? I don't see why not...
So far i see : very good black levels comparable to what's to be expected from Epson D7 LCD chips lit by standard bulbs, bright enough picture for a screen at least 92"~96" diagonally (600~650 lumens ?), moderate amount of pixel misalignment, strong oversaturated "LED colors" (personally, i love them!) that might need some taming, amazing selection of inputs/outputs (R/G/B OUT, audio OUT and S-video IN ???), and according to sellmejunk, a very quite and cool-running projector, hmm.....
I wish someone here at AVS would decide to contact Hans at CRE requesting a pj for evaluation+testing and based on the findings, offer it for sale - group buy, anyone ?
post #122 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post

Ok i decided to count some pixels,
i counted across tho not verticaly just to see how many pixels i could count.
Pixels counted in an Inch is 27-28 pixels
I counted it twice on the PC via VGA & on Xbox 360 standard HDMI cable set to 1080p.
SO whats a real 1080p inch worth of pixels?
about 52?

As for a blu ray player nope, i dont got one, besides my plan was to get a blu ray drive for PC, Then buy Battlestar Galactica seasons 1-4 & watch again from the beginning in stunning 1080p on my too good to be true CRE X1000 , gah! my plans have been foiled.

My PC is my TV, i`m waiting on a DVB-t2 USB stick to come in post so i can watch freeview HD.
Its a shame the PC / projector is stuck with a native 1366x768 using fake 1080p output.

Another intresting bit info u may like is that i looked at the manual, even tho its chinese, there was some english writing on the specs page

heres what is says:

Resolution 1984*1088

There a bunch of other stuff written i`ll have to take a snapshot as i`m not sure exactly what model it is, as the chinese headings are listed as
VX, GX, BX, NX,KX, which is confusing as the cover of the manual says its a CRE X 1000-HT.

Under the various BX , VX columns is listed more info for other models i`m guessing.........

i.e For main chip info under the GX column it says Hollywood quality V-ideo.
Under GX it says Pixelworks,
Under BX, NX, KX it says Mstar Semiconductor.

What i`ll do is take a picture of the specs page from the manual; when i`m allowed to post links here and hopefully someone can make sense of it.

Under all models which is worrying it says Physical resolution 1984*1088

These people are just making up numbers it seems? is that even a real resolution?

If the projector can do a max of 1984 X 1088 then it can do a LOWER resolution of 1920 X 1080 that just falls into 1080p!!
Ubuntu:
System>preferences>monitors

1080p equals 1920 X 1080

Five seconds and it selects for 1080p in UBUNTU.
Winbloz on the other hand....eh!!!

I prefer using a real operating system for a computer like Ubuntu, Kubuntu , Medibuntu or Ubuntu Mint @ 225 MB RAM thats free, fast and NO viruses!! and no need for any anti crapware running VERSUS Windows 7 and its problems with viruses, spyware, RAM bloat(see "antivirus" lol!!) and malware problems.

I prefer using a gameing platform that has a BUILT-IN Blu ray player called Playstation Three or PS3 since its just connect the HDMI cable and presto!! it works.

Stay away!! from any product with this caveat emptor:
Microsoft.
post #123 of 1270
Unfortunately the misconvergence is four pixels or more:-(.
post #124 of 1270
erm yeh you should probably forget the fire hydrant the reason i uploaded those pics was to kill some time whilst i was uploading the new clips to youtube. The 4ft away clip took about 50 mins to upload.
The screenshots with the fire hydrant was from before i adjusted the black & white levels around the time of the monkey island clip.
The 4ft away from the screen clip is the most current.

If i remembered to save my game (back to the future by telltale games) i`ll try do the fire hydrant again or similar
post #125 of 1270
There is no led over saturation, they are using color lcd panels,not color leds.A bulb lcd pj splits a regular bulb three paths to 3 color panels.What we are seeing is white leds behind each panel.
post #126 of 1270
Back to tyrants original question & the title of this thread :

" CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys?"

I would like to know if any members of this forum visit china or from any chinese people or if have a chinese friend to ask, But CRE the company do seem to have a large selection of older model lines to this history of Projector manufacturing whilst this is the only 1080p projector i think its a good sign if CRE is a successful company so is the advert correct? can they really be able to claim to be Chinas number 1 manufacturer?

as their advert claims:



what ever the case of their sucess, the CRE X1000 does seem to have partnership with epson.

On a logical note, epson i dont think has any LED projectors on the market, however their LCD direction has progressed well, it could be the reason that epson is curious into developing their own brand and using the CRE version for the mass chinese home gamer market, whilst develping an epson version geared to the business/cinema market.
Like i mentioned the CRE X1000 start up logo proclaims Epson D7 panel technology , CRE(letting or logo) itself doesnt appear in the projector startup screen

The other explaination could be that CRE makes the parts for the epson projectos & is allowed to use them as some part of business deal, If its true that CRE makes the epson parts for epsons range?

From CRE profile page they say:
"CRE Electronic Technology Co., Limited is a professional projector manufacturer of development, production and marketing . It focus on LED light source technology since 2004 .
As a pioneer in projector industry ,CRE creates World 1st projector based on 3LED/3LCD light source technology "

CRE is keeping moving with strong support from our partners such Epson ,Luminus, Philips, Bridgelux ,especially on mile-stone projector CRE X1000 with EPSON LCD . "

Using this banner on their website too



i wonder what are peoples thoughts to these claims.
post #127 of 1270
Like I have said several times before ,,, the idea behind the technology is sound. I would only worry about some of the internal components like caps and transistors failing which is VERY COMMON on some of the newer electronic products. I would also be leary of the blue Polarizer and LCD panel prematurely burning out even if they say the newer inorganic panels are supposed to not be affected. I do like the fact that the traditional light chamber is gone and there is no High voltage ballast. I think time will tell if this is going to be the flagship of the new technology. It would be nice to see a real HD Movie through the HDMI or RGB with flesh tones instead of video games or model still shots for evaluation. Although If you can send one of the models along with the projector I would pay the price for the thing even if it were broken.

Bohanna
post #128 of 1270
AFAIK, this is the world's first 3LCD/LED full HD native 1920x1080 projector available for sale; The Samsung F10M is only 1024x768 pixels...
As for being China's largest manufacturer of digital projectors for home use, maybe the ad meant product fully assembled in China by native Chinese company, or perhaps largest manufacturer of LED driven pjs in China, as the company has been around since 2004 ???
It also appears that CRE is using the PT-120 chipset from Luminus Devices only for the X1000 pj, while lower cost pjs are using LEDs from Bridgelux and Philips.
donaldk >>> I agree with you that the hydrant picture exhibits pretty bad misconvergence, but considering that the picture was taken inches away from screen and was fully zoomed, i wonder how would other 3-chip pjs fare under similar conditions ? That's why i am still willing to give the benefit of doubt to this pj's panel alignment; Perhaps i ought to try taking a picture of an image from my pj under similar conditions to serve as a point of reference ?
eatmeat >>> Each LED is indeed R/G/B used to illuminate each single "colorless" LCD panel, not the other way around; that's why colors from these LED chipsets are so pure and have much wider color points than standard bulbs as displayed on a color graph, although technically that's considered oversaturated colors.
post #129 of 1270
Heres some images again of the hydrant,
1stly the orginal image



U can see the fire hydrant in the distance

here is a closeup of the hydrant at my current color setting (powerstrip managed etc)


it may be a little blurry on my part. it difficult to snapshot i had to schooch down to avoid my own shadow from getting in the way.


This image is a closeup of the pointy railing spike just across the road from marty.

Now dont get excited... the picture below is NOT the projector, its a actual screen capture from the PC so this is how the colors are made by the game maker


For a full screen pixel comparison of the projector image to the game screenshot captured in 1920x1080 click here

Photobucket reduces my photos to 1024 .

Yeh as for Blu ray content sure i would love to, just i cant afford one just yet, i`m after a PC Blu-ray drive, as the idea behind me getting the CRE X1000 is to get rid of my TV and have my PC run my whole media. PC games, Movies, TV, radio, apps browse the web.
The one great thing i love is that yes i browse the web on my CRE X1000 and dont have to worry about how many hours of bulb i use up.

Sadly i will be relying on windows 7 to manage my CRE X1000 i may try Linux Mint again at some point. or i heard ubunto now has a thing called a wubi, allowing u to install ubunto so it keeps your windows system.
post #130 of 1270
Number 1, and Professional Company, just like US releases always start with market leading...;-).
post #131 of 1270
Quote:
eatmeat >>> Each LED is indeed R/G/B used to illuminate each single "colorless" LCD panel, not the other way around; that's why colors from these LED chipsets are so pure and have much wider color points than standard bulbs as displayed on a color graph, although technically that's considered oversaturated colors.

all epsons panels are colored r/g/b and use white light.
post #132 of 1270
Why would epson make a colorless panel?
post #133 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

There is no led over saturation, they are using color lcd panels,not color leds.A bulb lcd pj splits a regular bulb three paths to 3 color panels.What we are seeing is white leds behind each panel.


Wrong.

post #134 of 1270
they do make white LEDs too, but I believe you are correct. It says they use RGB. I would imagine they use them to produce a white light on each LCD panel for more output. However, that would be very expensive so I am not sure for the price range if they could do it.
post #135 of 1270
We are talking epson lcd panels not phatlite panels

Quote:
CRE X1000 with EPSON LCD .
post #136 of 1270
I agree rovingtravler white light thru color panels that what epson makes.
post #137 of 1270
That thing is 1600$ online isnt it?
post #138 of 1270
I look a the specs and see
Quote:
Lamp: Luminus R.G.B LED

and think hmm i could be wrong...


but then you see this
Quote:
LED 3D Projector: Home Theater Projector

LOL


At this point i dont know.
post #139 of 1270
The Phlatlight PT-120 does not consist of white LED's they are red green and blue as pictured above. Epson does not use white light on each panel. I have taken apart an Epson projector and can confirm that the white light is split into the three primary colors, red, green, and blue. The light then passes through polarizers and the LCD panels. The light is then recombined with a prism and directed into the lens to be projected onto the screen.

This basicly uses one LED behind each LCD panel. One red, one green, and one blue. This does away with all the special mirrors because there is no need to split the light or filter it in any way. The color is pure and is produced with much greater efficiency.
post #140 of 1270
Standard LCD light path



It would not make sense to have a white light on each panel.
It would not make sense to have three colors combined into white light and then filtered and seperated again.
Each LCD panel just blocks light or lets it pass through, there is no color filtering involved because the filtering process takes place before the light reaches the panel.

I have known all this since 1991 when I first read about this technology in A/V Magazine and Popular Science. The information is readily available on the internet with a quick search also.

I hope this clears up any confusion.
post #141 of 1270
I have been doing some research and I have found that this projector uses heat pipes for cooling, which allows it to run quieter. As many computer builders know, heat pipes are used in most of the high end coolers for CPU's and video cards. People building home theater PCs take advantage of these to cool their system without having to use loud fans.

I have also read the manual for the Phlatlight PT-120 which explains how these LEDs produce a lot of heat and a contact cooler must be used in conjunction with a thermal paste of the type used in computer applications.

I guess the infamouse line, "<10DB Your baby can sleep beside it while it works !" just might be true.
post #142 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by eat meat View Post

I agree rovingtravler white light thru color panels that what epson makes.

Take a look at the Epson site before making false statements.
Here is a linky
http://www.3lcd.com/explore/default....efault&lnkid=7

If you want it broken down further, check out the projector structure page.
Here is a link for that
http://www.3lcd.com/explore/lcd_pane...ucture&lnkid=4

If you notice on this page it only shows two lcd panels. One is 0.5 inch and the other is 0.9 inch. The website never mentions having color LCD panels. LCDs just block the light or let light pass through, this is done in graduations which creates grey scale and contrast. The light has to be filtered before it passes through the LCD panel or else it would just be black and white.
post #143 of 1270
action_jack >>> The above diagram showing a 3LCD + lightpath is for standard bulbs, correct ? Because in a 3LCD/LED engine each LCD chip has its own LED illuminator and thus no lamp, polarizing convertor, dichroic mirrors nor reflection mirrors; Ah, the beauty and longevity of simplicity !
As for heat pipes for cooling, i had read about it maybe in this thread and if true that would be another great point in favor of this pj as similar technology is used on another pj that costs only $15.000.
Like you i've been doing some more research on basic LCD technology and i found out that actually each LCD panel uses two polarizing plates, one for horizontal and the other for vertical, and that's how pixels are "twisted" into blocking the passage of light as well as its grey scale, from the darkest black to the brightest white.
The polarizing plates in each LCD panel assembly are integral parts of the design and that's how i for one became confused when people stated that the LCD panel was the cause of the famous blue degradation, whereas other people would lay the blame on the polarizing plates, but never mentioning that essentially they are one and the same, literally glued together, hmm...
So, if i'm correct, organic(bad)/inorganic(good) dyes used in LCD panels are only employed on the layer of an LCD assembly where the polarizers are located and never on the top layer facing opposite the light source, the TFT substrate.
post #144 of 1270
[quote=action_jackson;

If you notice on this page it only shows two lcd panels. One is 0.5 inch and the other is 0.9 inch. The website never mentions having color LCD panels. LCDs just block the light or let light pass through, this is done in graduations which creates grey scale and contrast. The light has to be filtered before it passes through the LCD panel or else it would just be black and white.[/QUOTE]

Hi action,,, I beleive you are wrong about the panels. Each panel is a seperate color R,G,& B and they have seperate parts numbers, or at least they do on the sanyo Projectors. There is a debate as to if they are ACTUALLY different. My experiance is that the Green and Blue are pretty close in color if they are interchanged but the red is much different than both.
I believe that the LED's in this Cre x1000 are white and placed behind each panels polalorzer. However I could be wrong and the three colored LED chips (Pictured above) could be replacing the white LED and the color Polarizer. If this were the case I would think that the Blacks from this projector would be pretty intense and it doesn't that they are. In fact they look like a traditional white light halide produced color black,, which as we all know really looks gray.

Bohanna
post #145 of 1270
MCaugusto, The 3lcd web site states that the LCD panel will only pass logitudinal waves so the use of a polarization charger optimizes the light output increasing it by 1.5 times. The LCD is made up of crystals that twist and untwist by varying electrical currents. When current is applied the crystal twists, and if fully twisted it lets the most light through. When the crystal is at rest or no current is applied, it is untwisted and blocking the most light. I believe that the polarizing filter just in front of the LCD panel is used to filter any light that is not longitudinal.
post #146 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Hi action,,, I beleive you are wrong about the panels. Each panel is a seperate color R,G,& B and they have seperate parts numbers, or at least they do on the sanyo Projectors. There is a debate as to if they are ACTUALLY different. My experiance is that the Green and Blue are pretty close in color if they are interchanged but the red is much different than both.
I believe that the LED's in this Cre x1000 are white and placed behind each panels polalorzer. However I could be wrong and the three colored LED chips (Pictured above) could be replacing the white LED and the color Polarizer. If this were the case I would think that the Blacks from this projector would be pretty intense and it doesn't that they are. In fact they look like a traditional white light halide produced color black,, which as we all know really looks gray.

Bohanna

Did you read the web site I linked strait from Epson? It has a very similar diagram as the one above and shows how the light is filtered before it ever reaches the LCD panel.
post #147 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post

Did you read the web site I linked strait from Epson? It has a very similar diagram as the one above and shows how the light is filtered before it ever reaches the LCD panel.

Yes I did and I agree that the light is filtered through several lens's and filters. It is ALSO filtered between three separate COLOR polarizers and three separate colored LCD panels before being fed into the prism block and shot out the lens to the screen. It has been my experience that the panels are each a separate color and part number. Also the panels and polarizers are SEPERATE and NOT integrated as Mgusto has mentioned. The reason the blue LCD panel eventually breaks down is the filtering of the ultraviolet light through it. The blue polarizer burns out first followed by the LCD panel itself.

Bohanna
post #148 of 1270
Here are two shots of a Sanyo LCD prism block. The first is the Blue side LCD with a Burnt out blue polarizer laying next to it. The burnt out part of the polarizer screen is pretty clear. Notice the blue dot on the LCD Panel as well. The second is the other side of the prism block which holds the RED LCD panel. Notice the red dot on the screen.
I hope this clear up any confusion.

Bohanna
LL
LL
post #149 of 1270
Here are two shots of a Burnt blue LCD Panel. It is VERY hard to shoot as you have to hold it in JUST the right light. Notice the inner Circular Blob on the panel. That is where it has broken down after the Blue polarizer has burnt out and allowed full UV to saturate the panel.
This translates into a Yellow Square or haze and or a Grayish hue that show up on areas of the screen. usually starting in the Middle of the screen and working it's way out.

Bohanna
LL
LL
post #150 of 1270
All the panels in my old Sanyo have identical numbers and markings except for the little colored circles. I figure that is just for identification purposes if they are ever removed. Even the wires that plug into the PCB have colored dots to keep track of where they belong.


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