CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 15

Dude needs to invest in a meter before bothering with CMS.

Ah yeh, I`ll stick to my ATI graphics card, i`m not an enthusiast to afford extra equipment.

Theres a good thread on here from avsforum on how to measure lumens & what tools are around.
or theres some cheap lux meters on ebay (tho i wont be buying one)

Speed racer pics + Clip




Click pics to enlarge

Youtube clip speed racer on x1000 click here

No actually a processor would correct just fine using DVE, WOW, AVS Test Disc or S&M disc.

Meters are great but at the price point of this projector are not worth it. A basic meter and software is going to cost at least $300, but more likely $400 - $600 retail.
You can get a used older DVDO for for a lot less.

Personnally I would just download the AVS test disc to confirm the correct colors and settigns and call it a day.

Is that on a wall or a screen?

I have compared cheap $30-40 light meters to my $250 meter and they are nearly identical for the purpose of measuring lux. I think many are curious what kind of real light output this projector can handle.

Do the blacks really look that 'blue' when you are seeing it in person? this is one of my pet peeves with my old Mitsubishi HC5500 LCD projector. the blacks were really dark greyish/blue and would stand out with many mixed contrast scenes.

How is this one holding up compared to the previous model which appeared to have a burnt polarizer?

Very blue... calibrate it with a meter and all is good(hopefully).

I'm not sure that's going to help the 'blue' blacks. some transmissive LCD's are just very blue by nature. This looks to be a bit extreme, but I can't expect these are quality panels at this price point.

I am trying to figure out who the target audience is of this particular projector. The price seems too high for local sales in China.

Ive tried the AVS test vids, the color test looks fine but its far too basic primaries. I`ve done the Media Centre video calibration test which seemed ok.

I`ve put a in a bid for a bluray DVE (Digital Video Essentials)
disc, so may be lucky to pick it up cheap.

The projector is capable of doing great deep blacks, but its still hard to say as some shades of black are chroma inky black/blue. I dont think its possible to calibate this projector just using projector controls.

What i really need is a colour calibration tool to navigate RGB, CMY with powerstrip.
Cyan Magenta Yellow controls can be used to deepen blacks, but yes its a composite black.

The current images are shown on a matt 1:1 gain screen at 78" , please note the images arent as blue as the snapshots suggest, but yes perhaps a cool blue temperature.

Does the pic of the pink girl racer look blue? i think that one snapshoted the best, the white of skin looks ok? yes or no.. just curious, as i will try powerstrip again to tweak some more, getting there...

Does to me, but i'm also looking at it on an uncalibrated laptop. The two pictures above are definitely blue, and you are missing tons of shadow detail.

Maybe you can clarify, but the samsung is using the same chipset as the X1000. Why is one 3LED, and another single LED(which would be very costly if not impossible)?

The samsung uses the LED like a standard white light bulb. The only plus is it is LED and will last much longer. They then use filters and prisms to separate the light into the three colors like a "normal" projector. Basically they dropped an LED into another chassis and sold it.

The samsung has been described as having RGB led,s.

yea it has the pt120 chipset.

There are design problems with creating white LED's. I'm not aware of any projector using this type of solution, and i would imagine it would be more expensive and costly.

Actually, CRE makes one or two other projectors that use a single white LED to shine through a single 5" TFT LCD panel. Pretty much not worth mentioning though, very old tech in comparison.

sellmejunk >>> From someone who also uses a Luminus LED chipset in my pj, to my eyes the pictures look slightly "bluish" toward the low end of the grey-scale (blacks, dark greys) and i can easily see it on the widescreen bars of the first two pictures, with the screen superimposed against what looks like a blackened wall; Also, as gorgeous as they look, all colors look somewhat oversaturated; Just look at those deeply saturated reds, blues, pinks and orange colors that seem to jump at you even displayed on a computer screen ! I know with colors like those it's tempting to just let it roll, but it doesn't hurt to back up a bit on the color control.
Considering we are seeing these pics downloaded and displayed on our computer screens, i think that shadow detail look just fine, specifically the first pic with the darker details all around the walls and underneath the window on the right side of pic.
rovintravler >>> The Samsung FM10 does indeed use a similar Luminus Devices chipset as the one in your Runco pj and in my tiny LG HX300 but its three separate R/G/B LEDs illuminate each single LCD chip, in a beautiful internal arrangement; As i pointed before, you can read the review and see some very interesting shots of what the sealed light path look like at the website for Cine4Home; I still don't understand why Samsung didn't pursue the same design further and introduced a full HD model by now.
sellmejunk (again!) >>> At some point during your watching sessions, could you please input again that grid test pattern (white grid on black background) that you previously uploaded here and take a real good look all around the image trying to see pixel misaligment of all three LCD chips ? How do they superimpose on top of each other ? Are the white lines completely white or do you see any side lines in blue or red ? Thanks...

MC you are right. I was looking at the wrong pj and the oem version. There are some pico projectors that used to use white LEDs and a TFT or full color LCD. I am not sure any of them are still arround though.

The blue tint is there. I think a used DVDo or other CMS would help but if you are going to do that you can get a better pj to start with.

For what it is and the price I think it is not bad, not the best by any means but full HD and LED for 1K is pretty good.

Its pretty pointless to post pictures, all the pictures turn out blue because of the camera suxs its only an aiptek 3mb, the screen is going to reflect alot of light back into the lens and end up off colour regardless.
This wil be my last attempt at pictures just to clarify on the black issues.

Example 1: This is barbarella pic, below is the orginal PC Wallpaper..

Because of its stark bold pallete its a perfect example.

Example 2: Below is snapshot of projection of barbarella

Now believe it or not the Orginal (example 1) shows just as glorious on the x1000 , but the best picture i can get with the camera is example 2.

The only way to clear up the issue of deep blacks is to look for blue in the blacks.

Standing closer to the pj screen i take this picture
Example 3

You can enlarge the pictures by clicking on them whilst the black is lighter in the pictures it doesnt reveal much blue.

I zoom onto the angel in the corner, note the blacks around him

If u click the picture, u get the larger version and u can look for any navy, otherwise its pretty light black i`d say.

All i know is that barbarella picture shows PERFECT Deep Blacks to my eyes. also the grid convergence test is same result as it was before,looking fine.
There no point me going round in circles, you wont be able to see what i m viewing.The madness ends here!

I wish you could all see what i could see,its not LCD crystal clear like a PC monitor, its more of a image rich saturated fuzzyyness of colors in 1080p on your big screen.

“We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.” Albert Einstein

Agreed. SMJ, while I appreciate what you have gone through and presented here, might I suggest you simply enjoy your purchase. You have nothing to prove to anybody here and have certainly put up with enough BS for a $1k projector. Just enjoy the unit and who cares what anyone thinks? It is a $1k projector and with the LED light engine ought to last a long time. While I am curious about this unit, I would probably never buy one for the obvious reason that the company has no track record. You, sir, are a brave man and a true pioneer. A sincere tip of the hat to you.

No wonder. Pics are definitely blue, i would say black levels are average. Of course, gonna be hard to tell with an aiptek.

sellmejunk >>> Thank you for your help in sharing your experiences about the CRE X1000 pj, posting all those pictures here and answering all my questions; I promise you i won't bother you again with my near constant inquiring....The madness has ended here, hah !

I appreciate all advice i`ve had from you guys, its been helpful to read through these post & work out my issues with the x1000.

The blue thing was helpful as the PC HDMI to the PJ projects windows 7 on the x1000 with a blue tint, so that was my 1st obstacle to overcome.

However as the blu-ray drive is a new addition to my PC, i decided to go back to the x1000 default color scheme to check something...& shut down powerstrip.

BEhold i start the bluray movie, and guess what, the movie plays fine completly non affected by windows desktop blueish colors. Bluray playback has already been optimized for the x1000, as no color adjustment is needed at all for the bluray film playback. (i`m talking about RGB, CYM colours)

This is probably whats has been frustrating me as PC film files (such as the basketball clip) & desktop colors,need powerstrip to get good colors.

i tried a few powerstrip settings and bluray is unaffected giving good video color quality, ( brightness, contrast settings still need to be set manually etc)

After looking back at some of the pictures and comparing them side by side to the onscreen image, i can now see for sure the camera has lost alot of shadow detail, & that its tuff to take pictures of a projector screen. The bluray filmplayback is colour is very good, & imagine standalone bluray players to do an outstanding job with the X1000.

Its unfortunate that mine & yours first look at the X1000 is based on my experiences with PC output rather than a standalone bluray player, because then i would have had less to complain about.

All pixels are readable etc, the fuzzy feel i wanted to explain in describing picture quality of the x1000 is best summed up with a PC picture such as a landscape.
If you go back to my earlier posts there some very decent snapshots of some landscapes, which in person onscreen pops out at you, the bright saturated colors make landscapes seem pixel packed,giving a really nice feel glossy finish.

If someone buys one & (if) it works fine i have no doubt they will enjoy great bluray.
PC owners will be disapointed until they figure out the new colour scheme (tho PC bluray playback is already set up)
& Xbox 360 looked great on it.

As its fairly cheap to buy, be sure to put some repair money aside, & use the manufacturers warranty to best advantage.

I dont blame folk for steering clear of unknown brand, in regards to whats the alternative? perhaps 1024 x768 is sufficient for some

Wish everyone the best in their projector outcome, thanks for the assistance.
I`ll post my powerstrip settings sometime soon, it would be intresting to hear from another owner.

SMJ


As I have said earlier "Thanks for having a pair" (I'm not sure I could of done the same).

LED projectors will probably be the future, figure your self on the cutting edge

AFM

I would have thought the same thing owning a Samsung LED RP DLP TV which is still as good as the day I bought it. For some reason Samsung dropped this format and Mitsubishi never got on board with it. I wonder? Clearly the LED engine was superior as evidenced by the life of my unit VS a family member who has a Mitsu lamp model. Not sure what went on there but Samsung dropped the RP DLP format altogether. Too bad, a fine TV still.

SMJ, you have a set of marbles and I hope you get great performance out of your PJ.

I am a DLP fanboy and agree that based on my experience LED is the way to go with this technology as far as longevity is concerned. LEDs will dim sometime down the road but he!! I may be in the ground before I worry about it on a PJ.

Mitsu has teh lazerz!!!

Found this video clip on Laser projector technology really intresting about how it works, pretty wild.
http://lightblueoptics.com/technolog...er-projection/

I know i said i wasnt going to post anymore pictures until i got a better camera, but since i`ve gone back to the CRE x1000 default levels, things seem alot better.

Frankly after playing around with powerstrip software for weeks, ive realized its a hindrence than it is helpful. The best overall picture quality for bluray + PC pictures seems to be ATI card colour defaults & the X1000`s default setting
The 1st instinct i had when i 1st ran the projector all those weeks ago was thinking to myself "Mmm its running a little blue", and since then i`ve been battling an invisible blue monster, fighting for domination over windows color scheme or video playback.
Perhaps one of the biggest pitfalls i had was that i was trying to make the projector image match the brightness & contrast of my Lenovo IBM 22" LCD Monitor; which is proabably foolish as they are only slightly related to eachother but altogether 2 different types of technology; of course a Physical screen is going to achieve better results. I was naive to think otherwise.

Revisting the Landscape pictures & girl pictures i took at the start of this journey, i realized those pics turned out pretty good, and i wasnt using powerstrip back then.
Whilst the aiptek camera suxs it did an ok job of relaying the visual pictures to you guys the readers.

Looking again at possible lumen output, ive tryed to be fair & use 3 exposure settings. to asses how much light is being output.

So heres 3 snaphots of x1000 on default levels, using Aiptek camera at 3 types of exposures on these pictures.
Click Pictures to Enlarge for 3200 x 2400 resolution pics!
Pic1Pic2
Pic3

You have to see the minus -1 & minus-2 Barbarella, looking alot better as a fairer representation
Pic1 is Level 0 Aiptek Cam Exposure Setting
Pic2 IMAGE is Level minus -1 Aiptek Cam Exposure Setting
Pic3 IMAGES is Level minus-2 Aiptek Cam Exposure Setting

Pic1Pic2Pic3

Pic1Pic2Pic3

I dont know if this will prove anything at all, but bear mind what i`m seeing is a awesome picture.
In the past i`ve been able to convey what i`m seeing thru the aiptek by using mixed settings of exposure just so i can meet you forum folk halfway & have a decent image to show you.

For some snapshots I`ve had to set the exposure down so it turn out alright, but thus doing so i`ve negated the lumens reflectivity..

Exposure setting 0 shows the default lumen
Exposure Setting minus-1 & minus-2 means i had to reduce alot of light just to get an image to show you guys,
Not very scientific i know; but should be good for someone to guesstimate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMZ0D...eature=related

interesting-pt54

SMJ

I was not correct about the Runco outboard video processors. Most of them do have the controls built in... just make sure they come with the remote or you will have NO access to the controls. It really depends on which version you buy. You would want to get a DHD 3. But as you said the pictures look pretty good for the price.

Well guys, i just found out that Epson does indeed have a variant model in the D7 line of LCD chips which uses ORGANIC material for polarization, instead of much longer lasting inorganic layer; This 1920x1080 D7 LCD chip was designed and manufactured exclusively for lower cost HD projectors.
This certainly puts a crimp on my plans to buy a CRE X1000, because that picture posted by sellmejunk showing the yellow "stain" in the middle of the image looked suspiciously like organic polarizer burn-in to my eyes, never mind a "problem with the optics sourced from 3M" as explained by tech repair.
I am going to contact CRE again requesting clarification as to which specific model of Epson's D7 LCD chips is being used in the CRE X1000, but i doubt they either have such info readily available or if they would even know what i am talking about.
I leave my pj running for up to 12 hours every day, and i cannot afford to purchase a pj that either burns standard bulbs at the rate of twice a year or buy a pj that uses LCD chips with organic material, as there have been too many reports of premature failure due to constant heat exposure.
My bet is that the CRE X1000 uses these LCD chips due to their lower cost while still allowing the company, like any other, to crow about their usage of Epson D7 "state-of-the-art" LCD chips....What do you guys think ?