or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys? - Page 4

post #91 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by sellmejunk View Post

Rest assured the noisy fan isnt the projector fan, lol it from my equipment that i had from before it looks like a water cooler makes alot of noise because itmakes water from air mositure then is 7 times filtered, yeh dont drink the tap water, seriously.

In Holland you can, Amsterdam has very neutral tasting water, Utrechts well is right between the wells of two mineral water companies, so just as good. In France you'll get sick, the UK has cheap water, so not sure about its quality.
post #92 of 1270
Often lamp output is five times the actual projector lightoutput, so that would bring it to 800 lumens.
post #93 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

So these use a separate rgb LEDs for each panel.



So much for getting rid of rainbow effect

This is 3LCD, not single DLP, so no rainbow effect to begin with, but some nasty misconvergence instead.
post #94 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bohanna View Post

Hey Action. There is a HUGE question about the panels being identical as the panel themselves are marked R,, G & B and listed with different part numbers. Most Techs will all tell you that they are different. You are correct about the mirrors and lens for splitting and channeling the light. The light is then filtered through R G & B polarizers before it gets shot through the three Panels.. This projector seems to bypass most of the conventional design light paths and go directly to the polarizers and then through the LCD panels.
Like I have said in earlier posts this is a design that has had many in the modded DIY groups interested in to overcome the single retro-fit LED dimness problem. This unit seems to be a down and dirty no frills hybrid. There is NO question in my mind that it is nowhere near 3000 Lumens unless they are talking about shooting a white light at a single close distance target for measuring output.

Bohanna

Where can I find the discussion on retro-fitting? I am interested in learning what progress has been been made.

I guess it is possible that each panel is different for each color, but it does not seem logical because all they are doing is blocking light or letting it through. Each color is already separate, so no need to produce three different filtered panels. I have heard of someone with two identical projectors with bad panels in the blue light path. He cannibalized the panel from the green light path of one and placed it in the blue light path of the other, thereby fixing it.

Either way, you cannot just place a white light behind each panel and expect it project a proper image.
post #95 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post

This is 3LCD, not single DLP, so no rainbow effect to begin with, but some nasty misconvergence instead.


Why was i thinking it would pulse lol. Duh!!! Man i need to stop drinking.
post #96 of 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by action_jackson View Post

Where can I find the discussion on retro-fitting? I am interested in learning what progress has been been made.

I guess it is possible that each panel is different for each color, but it does not seem logical because all they are doing is blocking light or letting it through. Each color is already separate, so no need to produce three different filtered panels. I have heard of someone with two identical projectors with bad panels in the blue light path. He cannibalized the panel from the green light path of one and placed it in the blue light path of the other, thereby fixing it.

Either way, you cannot just place a white light behind each panel and expect it project a proper image.

Hi action, I beleive that I have read the same article/post . I don't think the guy was all that skilled in testing. The replaced panel got rid of the yellow burn square on the screen. As far as critical color reproduction I am not sure just how critical he was and any actuall images were never posted to the best of my knowledge. I have had the idea for several years to use three LED light sources as is apparently being done with the cre projector . But I never took the plunge and actually built one. I bought a large supply of UHP lamps a while ago so now I have enough to last me a while. anyway the 3 white led lamps would go directly behind the 3 Polarizing filters before being shot through the 3 LCD panels.

Here are a few sites you may want to check out

replace the dotcom in the traditional way.

diyaudiodotcom The Moving Image > DIY

Projectors

projectionforumsdotcom

lumenlabdotcom (a guy named electrodacus and

crazyfunguy are Both cutting edge)

lumenarc.co.uk

there also a site called allinboxdotcom for Projector

modding with lots of videos.

There are several sites relating to this if you use

mr google

FYI,, Let me save you A LOT of trouble in

advance. you need a VERY short arc halide or a

VERY narrow LED output lamp for anything to work

if you are using 3LCD or DLP projectors. I know

because I have spent hundreds of hours and a few

thousand dollars finding this out the hard way!!!

Bohanna
post #97 of 1270
MCaugusto,

Thank you for pointing out that detailed review of the Samsung SP-F10M (may it rest in Discontinued heaven).

The CRE looks like a more serious offering after reading all of this. As usual, some gung-ho entrepreneur in China takes the lead.

I still can't help but wonder why a more renowned company like samsung has not taken it a step further and evolved that solid SP-F10M into a 1000lumen 720 or even 1080p entry home unit.

Kinda sucks that we have to take a deep breath and order from Alibaba.

Oh well, I too congratulate brother sellmejunk for this most courageous leap.
post #98 of 1270
Stores have discontinued the Samsung SP-F10M,thats what your seeing.It will have a 5 year run at least.Same with the little led samsung, they arnt selling well probably,so they dont get reordered .
post #99 of 1270
If this tests as well as the specs it would be scoped up and rebranded.Its probably
700-800 lumens(3-300lumen panels),and wont fit ft-lumen HT standards,and would be hard to market,just my 2 cents.
post #100 of 1270
Mr.Fresnel >>> Even though the Samsung pj technically cannot be called HD, when i saw the pictures in the test report i was fascinated seeing how well built it is with all metal cooling paths, fully enclosed LCD engine (i believe that's a first in the world), the three separate LED chipset illuminating each single LCD chip, the chart depicting how R/G/B colors from LEDs have much/much better characteristics than standard metal halide bulbs, etc, etc, etc
I don't think too many people paid any attention to the innards of the Samsung F10M, which is a shame; I think that's where the future of 3-chip projectors lie, and 1-chip pjs as well.
Looking at the way that case looks and the placement of input/outputs i still wonder if Epson is just selling CRE (NonDisclosureAgreement, of course!) most of the innards of one of their lower cost/full HD pj, minus the bulb assembly and control board, and allowing CRE to do the rest - modifying the light path, installing LEDs, etc, etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if this unit measures around 650 to 700 lumens after calibration.
post #101 of 1270
OK, i took a members advice and downloaded the MP4-2C test vids.
I tried the black, ADL, & white clipping tests, which would give me an idea of the black & white levels.

Firstly white levels is the toughest one to balance it with the correct black is a hard task.

Whites, had it so the correct number of bars were flashing, 230-234 it was barely noticable on screen but enough of a light brown/yellow bar to be shown to be within the scopes of the blacks i had just setup.

The black levels here showed also correctly very noticable clear bars 17-25 were the best result flashing.

Its not possible to get the correct colors thru the projector itself to make the white & black level video test clips to work.

Instead i had to use powerstrip (shareware) which gave me added controls for colors managment, after hours of fiddling with powerstrip, projectors own color settings & ati controls i managed to get the blacks looking great.
The problem now is i accidently lost the settings, i should have writtten them down.

The way powerstrip does the colors is advanced for me using RGB, & CMY.
I know that more CMY makes black after looking it up online, but i`m kinda lost in making the colors , contrast, lightness, gamma come together using RGB CMY. Perhaps someone can recommend a guide to using powerstrips color managment?

I believe anyone who buys the projector with a knowledge of using Powerstrip will be overall happy.
Just need to find that balance again, then i`ll try uploading more results once i can recreate those lost settings..

The other config vids worked well, apart from the one called star effect leaving a big white splodge in the middle, fine details on white i dont think many LED projectors can do yet? perhaps i am wrong.

I know alot of people have suggested i do certain tests, like move the projector onto diff parts of the screen etc, i dont have enough space in my flat to physically move the projector around, right now its up high and will stay put for now
post #102 of 1270
Glad to hear you are getting the settings dialed in. If you are referring to my post about projecting on diff parts of the screen, I actually just meant looking at different areas of the projected image. Convergence issues could be greater in one area than another. So far the videos you put up have looked good. Like the random pics of the scantily clad woman.
post #103 of 1270
Yeah, sellmejunk, how about a picture taken 4 feet away from screen no zoom applied, room blackened as much as possible, high contrast image with human face + added colors ?
....And another picture with bright, sunny outdoor image, lots of colors and some white background so that we may check for pixel misconvergence, at that same fair distance of 4 feet from screen ? Thanks....
At this point, with this pj i would be more concerned about pixel misconvergence, which can be so/so very common - even in the best of circumstances, following a near perfect adjustment at the factory we have to factor in packaging, storage, handling, shipping, etc, and by then how good is that factory alignment ?
I am also curious about its native contrast; If i remember correctly, the current generation of Epson D7 0.74" LCD chips average anywhere from 3.000:1 to 4.000:1 contrast ratios (Home Theater Mag) without any dynamic irises at work, so i guess we can expect at least that much from this pj ? but then, why is CRE quoting what appears to be "standard" Epson contrast ratio figure as high as 100.000:1 ? There is no way that CRE could be using the latest generation of Epson LCOS chips released last fall, correct ?
post #104 of 1270
It has the Epson D7 panels, definitely not the new reflective LCD panels Epson is using in their flagship projectors. Those panels would drive up costs considerably. I'm sure most of the specs are blown out of proportion on this PJ. Many manufacturers do this but CRE is taking it a little over the top.
post #105 of 1270
I skimmed most of this thread, but the eye catching thing to me is the word Chinese.

Anything I buy I pick up and read the back, I buy American regardless if I have to pay double, obviously you cannot find certain things so you are forced to buy foreign. Anyway is there a list someplace of American made projectors? I can find the screen made in America all over the place.
post #106 of 1270
Jayohio19,

Most anything these days has parts from all over the world... Look at GM slowing production because of a shortage of Japanese parts due to the Quake.

Many, not all, PJs have psrta made in Tawian, Japan, or China. They maybe put together in the USA , but contain these other country parts.

I too do try to buy American if possible.
post #107 of 1270
Yeah Ive noticed a lot of items "Assembled in the USA from foreign and domestic products" as labels, but there are still lots of items made in the USA. Everyone I work with or know gets aggrivated with me when they try and buy anything and the first thing I ask is "where is it made?' Some of the answers really grind my gears. " I cant afford an American made product" well one of these days you wont be able to afford a Chinese product because you wont have a job.

Off my soap box.

Any other BUY AMERICAN people here that have a projector brand that is at least assembled here in the US?
post #108 of 1270
also i wouldnt buy a donkey that craps gold bars from alibaba.com
post #109 of 1270
My projector is "made" in the USA
My past pre/pro USA
current pre/pro Canada (not the US but at least North America)
Wires all made in the USA
BD player US company not sure where Oppo is made/put together.
Speakers American company at least put together in the USA
post #110 of 1270
I only know of Christie (Canada with US base), and VDC. Count on paying at least double your pay double, 12K, anything costing less in their line-up are non-US/Canada.

@rovingtraveller I see you have a Delta Electronics... No that ain't the US manufacturer of CRT projector lenses of yesteryear, but a proper Taiwanese ODM, products are also sold by sister company/subsidiary Vivitek.

BTW; "Founded in 1983, Planar is headquartered in Oregon, USA, with offices, manufacturing partners, and customers worldwide."
post #111 of 1270
Donaldk,

That is why I "" it. I agree Runco is the designer of the firmware maybe some boards, RSC, etc. but it is a delta frame and engine. I am just waiting for coldmachine to make some comments now that OEM and ODM have been brought up. Although I have to say I have seen the vivtek as well and the pq is not as qood. I like the addiontional features Runco added. They are more fine tuned.

They are "" put together in the Runco / Planar factory in OR, which I have seen. I have not been there since the Q series was put on sale, but they do "add value" at the plant.

Even my nice new Anthem AVM50v has made in china, yes china on the internal boards. not even made in Tawan or Japan. Anthem claims and I am sure they did the design work, but out source the production of many of the components.

As you said it is had to find a completely manufactored anything from the US anymore.
post #112 of 1270
I too try to buy American when possible. I would live to have a Christie in my home, but I just can't spend over $10,000 on a projector. What about DLP, are Texas Instruments panels made in the US or sourced?
post #113 of 1270
Rovingtraveller. In this case Vivitek was the launchpartner for the TI commissioned Delta Electronics reference design, IFA 2007 if memory serves me right, but normally they get models that were previosuly marketed by bigger brands, that get superseeded with a new model and the existing model will return to be marketed by Vivitek, at least that's what they told me last year at a tradeshow, concerning a larger DLP unit. That Qumi seems to be a new model though with the latest TI budget chip, and so on. Vivitek hasn't been around that long that 1080P LED DLP was the first time I heard of them, so these folks are still building the portfolio.

Of course if you would go for a Christie, the LCDs are Sanyo, so is the big single chip DLP, that Sanyo sources from Delta. The other smaller single chippers are/were sourced from PD. A Scandinavian company.
post #114 of 1270
Greetings all

I follow this thread to find out about the X1000 and what has been discovered, I realize everyone has strong feelings about off shore manufacturing (you can include me in that group), but I want to find out about this projector.

I would be sad to see this thread be hijacked on this subject, we all have strong feelings about this subject, but is this the best place to have this discussion.

If you believe I'm of base here, sorry, I want to hear more about this projector.

I apologize if I've offended anyone

AFM
post #115 of 1270
A, issue is that there's no new info on the projector, hence the ancillary discussion.
post #116 of 1270
This is a snapshot from my DVcam, zooming and using macro to see how this CRE X1000 displays the pixels onto my screen.
This was taken a few days ago, maybe not intresting to some, but its a good representation of the pixels on texture





(Screenshot is from a 1920x1080 PC game)
post #117 of 1270
I used the test video from the MP4-2C HD config vid files to set the basic black level.

The black on this wont disapoint they pretty darn dark, in fact the white level is the hardest thing to do, i couldnt really get it right, seems pointless as theres no way i could balance those black shades of color from the test video to the white level video without losing the blacks test bars.
Anyhow... it been a few days since my last post and all this time i been trying to get the colors right using many saved profiles i made up from powerstrip, they either turned out light tinted blue light tinted yellow bordering both on white.
I had to give up,, the next day in the post, i recieved my new USB DVB-T2 Tuner, & began to try media centre, using it to control my tuner.

In the TV settings of media centre on Win 7 you can set up your display type, choose HDMI, , Projector & resolution size.

The config consists of watching the Microsoft actors playing pool, and u have to adjust your contrast levels & brightness to a series of visual tests displayed on screen.

It isnt too fancy but tells you to use brightness and contrast using the projector controls etc, to block out certain grayscale markers, and stupid things like reduce contrast until u can see the Pool players wrinkles & buttons on an actors white shirt.

Anyhoo, this seems like a good combination to try so tried balancing this test vid with the other vid to see if i could at least get a decent white and some shades of black

The quality of cam is 1080 but my DVcam suxs in low light.

I doubt it may be visible to see the flashing black.grey bars? , however what is visible is a wierd camera reaction of a halo from the hard to see grey bar strobing.
It alot better with the naked eye than to reproduce it on a cheapy 1080p cam.

Click here for clip
post #118 of 1270
I put the camera on tripod and put it 4ft away from screen as requested & played only 1920 x 1080 pics in slideshow, consisting of girls for flesh tones, landscapes, some animal and machinery.

The images look alot better with the eye than thru a lens; the DV cam does the projector no justice!

The images i have observed look great from where i usually sit about 10ft away. and even then i am proably sitting too close! I dont see any issues with the image sitting 10ft away. Looks great.

4ft as requested u are only gonna see a small portion of the screen, so watch out for my jerky panning on some scenes.

I guess u guys know what u are looking for at 4ft?

Click here for the clip
post #119 of 1270
Youtube is doing some wierd thing at the moment,, if it comes up black and white picture, press the 1911 button to deactivate,
Youtube is doing some wierd celebration of the year 1911?? adding stupid filters to some videos.

(Dont forget to change the Youtube video setting to 1080p )
post #120 of 1270
Thanks for uploading the video and the pics. Unfortunately I can't view the videos from work. The pictures seem to show a purple edge on the black gates and the fire hydrant, is that noticeable from your normal viewing distance? I also noticed this on some of the video you shot the other day, but was not sure.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP › CRE X1000 Worlds First 3 LED 3 LCD 1080p Projector..Anybody heard of these guys?