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JVC RS40/X3 Calibration Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 431
bollundus wrote

Quote:


he X3 looks after turning in the first minutes has heavy green tint.
Within 10 minutes it is improving only slightly.
The Solution is to selecting a different preset, or a power cycle of the source. Now anything seems again to allow normal function. Even when you turn the originally(on start) selected preset is displayed correctly.
Overall, the Red has fallen sharply after 130h.
I had to recalibrate completely.
But the differences in the calibration are just peanuts compared this massive initial Green-Tint-Problem, which can only be turned off by switching the preset or, switch Off/on the source. Not very suitable for everyday use.
Could anybody has seen similar behavior? Does anyone have any idea which connected it?

This question was answered later in the thread by a poster Mannio1 suggesting he check his settings. He wrote:

Quote:


Your heavy green tint issue solved by switching the preset or the source sounds like the wrong colorspace is selected. If your setting is on auto, try to cycle through the different colorspace options (YCbCr, RGB etc) until your picture looks correct.

I have the same issue except my projector starts out red then after several minutes and changing inputs it evens out, a bit. I thought it was associated with the machine warming up. It appears that is not the case.

The poster was referring to rgb and other color settings. I have been fooling around trying to get the color right with this issue active. Can someone tell me how to do a complete reset?

I then should take off the auto setting and find the correct color setting. I have two inputs going to the projector, HDMI and component. When I find the correct one I will enable it to user one and then user two?

Then when I select either input in future it should default to the correct user setting for the different inputs?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #122 of 431
Update: readings taken with a faulty i1 LT. My new one produces entirely different results.

Alright, spent some time with the RS40 last night. I can now say that my rs40 is far from Tom's "golden sample" as it required significant adjustments. However, the key thing is that I was able to dial in the grey scale using only RB neg gains and neg offsets.

I started with Film but ended up going with Cinema and going with custom temp/gamma. I think either one would be fine and could be made to equal to the other mode though. The key thing for me was that my R and B were do far off from the 65K mark...I really couldn't dial in the temp using the gains/offsets only. I found, as suggested earlier in this thread, that using the custom gamma RGBW settings really allowed me to dial in both the RGB levels, gamma, and luminance really well.

Settings for below:
Mode: Cinema
Space: Wide1
Contrast -1
Bright 1
Color 10
Tint -5
Color Temp Custom 2 (6500 base)
RG : -10
GG: 0
BG: - 46
RO: -5
GO: 0
BO: -4

Gamma Custom 2 (2.3) (lots of custom adjustments in RB from 5%-95% IRE)

Dotted lines represent the unadjusted defaults. My worst deltaE is is 4.05 @ 10% IRE. All others are ~ 1.10 across the remaining IREs.



Unfortunately, my color is still off a bit...I am not as familiar adjusting color so I need to play around with this some more:

post #123 of 431
May I ask why did you begin with the Wide1 Color Space? Standard is much more accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

Alright, spent some time with the RS40 last night. I can now say that my rs40 is far from Tom's "golden sample" as it required significant adjustments. However, the key thing is that I was able to dial in the grey scale using only RB neg gains and neg offsets.

I started with Film but ended up going with Cinema and going with custom temp/gamma. I think either one would be fine and could be made to equal to the other mode though. The key thing for me was that my R and B were do far off from the 65K mark...I really couldn't dial in the temp using the gains/offsets only. I found, as suggested earlier in this thread, that using the custom gamma RGBW settings really allowed me to dial in both the RGB levels, gamma, and luminance really well.

Settings for below:
Mode: Cinema
Space: Wide1
Contrast -1
Bright 1
Color 10
Tint -5
Color Temp Custom 2 (6500 base)
RG : -10
GG: 0
BG: - 46
RO: -5
GO: 0
BO: -4

Gamma Custom 2 (2.3) (lots of custom adjustments in RB from 5%-95% IRE)
post #124 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

May I ask why did you begin with the Wide1 Color Space? Standard is much more accurate.

Well, for two reasons
1) It's the default for the Cinema Mode
2) I read that DCI is what Cinema Mode is based on and Wide1 space is for DCI
post #125 of 431
There is something wrong here either with the projector or more likely with the instrument you are using to measure it. Green is not that grossly undersaturated in Film, Standard.

BTW, no broadcast or Blu-ray source material is mastered using the DCI gamut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

Well, for two reasons
1) It's the default for the Cinema Mode
2) I read that DCI is what Cinema Mode is based on and Wide1 space is for DCI

Here's my default Film:-2,1,0,0:65K:Normal gamma:standard space



Here's that last CIE compared to my current adjusted wide1 so yeah, it is closer by default. Standard is denoted with X's in the inner triangle. How to pull up green? Tint?

post #126 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

There is something wrong here either with the projector or more likely with the instrument you are using to measure it. Green is not that grossly undersaturated in Film, Standard.

BTW, no broadcast or Blu-ray source material is mastered using the DCI gamut.

Thanks for the info. I'll switch to Film/Standard.

And it looks like you are right on your call about my sensor and the color green - it can't see it very well. I did a quick test on 4 LCD monitors and they all had terrible greens with the same RGB grey scale profile I posted above for my "default" setup. When checking continuous RGB readings in HCFR, all the screens had greens in the 70% or less area - red and blue where in the 130%+ levels. The RB varied across LCDs, but not the green, always half-ish of the RB levels.

So thanks for the heads-up. I think I go back to Film-Standard-65K defaults, adjust for black level/constrast and wait for a new sensor to make it my way...

A
post #127 of 431
I replaced my RS15 with an RS40 a couple of weeks ago, overall the 2D picture on the RS40 is superior to that of the RS15. It has much more natural colors, and the picture seems sharper as well with less artifacting in panning scenes etc.

But the loss of lumens is very noticeable. In normal lamp mode, on a 110" stewart Studiotek screen, it has way less lumens vs the old RS15, and the RS15 had 800 hours on its lamp!

In High mode it also has less lumens, but the difference is not so great. with the RS15 in high lamp mode, and the RS40 in high lamp mode, they seem closer in lumen output than when both are set to Normal.

Has anyone else noticed a loss in lumens when going from last years to this years? It's so great I really want to stick with high lamp mode even with a new bulb, but the fan noise gets bad in high mode.

The room is completely light controlled, and I have the projector ceiling mounted about 12' from a 110" diagonal stewartfilm Studiotek 1.3 gain screen. It's the same exact position and placement as the RS15 was.
post #128 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post

I replaced my RS15 with an RS40 a couple of weeks ago, overall the 2D picture on the RS40 is superior to that of the RS15. It has much more natural colors, and the picture seems sharper as well with less artifacting in panning scenes etc.

But the loss of lumens is very noticeable. In normal lamp mode, on a 110" stewart Studiotek screen, it has way less lumens vs the old RS15, and the RS15 had 800 hours on its lamp!

In High mode it also has less lumens, but the difference is not so great. with the RS15 in high lamp mode, and the RS40 in high lamp mode, they seem closer in lumen output than when both are set to Normal.

Has anyone else noticed a loss in lumens when going from last years to this years? It's so great I really want to stick with high lamp mode even with a new bulb, but the fan noise gets bad in high mode.

The room is completely light controlled, and I have the projector ceiling mounted about 12' from a 110" diagonal stewartfilm Studiotek 1.3 gain screen. It's the same exact position and placement as the RS15 was.

You probably have something wrong with your lamp or projector. The RS40 should be at least as bright as the RS15. With a new lamp compared to one at 800h it should be significantly brighter. I'd contact the dealer who sold it to you.

Other people have had problems with low lumens with the RS40 (read the threads) and also quickly dropping lumens with older models. Seems like you got a lemon...

I don't know if it's just the bulb, or the projector itself. To me the bulb seems like the logical answer - but I don't know. Maybe someone with experience of an older JVC with dropping lumens output could chime in if it helped to change the bulb or if the problem persisted? (I don't have the energy to look through all the old threads...)
post #129 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2000 View Post

bollundus wrote



This question was answered later in the thread by a poster Mannio1 suggesting he check his settings. He wrote:



I have the same issue except my projector starts out red then after several minutes and changing inputs it evens out, a bit. I thought it was associated with the machine warming up. It appears that is not the case.

The poster was referring to rgb and other color settings. I have been fooling around trying to get the color right with this issue active. Can someone tell me how to do a complete reset?

I then should take off the auto setting and find the correct color setting. I have two inputs going to the projector, HDMI and component. When I find the correct one I will enable it to user one and then user two?

Then when I select either input in future it should default to the correct user setting for the different inputs?

I would almost bet this has to do with the HDMI issue that affects RS40/X3 models. I've talked about this in the owner's thread. When you power on the RS40 it does not use the current settings regardless of what you see in the menu. It usually takes the HDMI input resetting to get to what is actually set in the menus.

To fix this, after start up when you have a source running, go into the menu and scroll down to color temperature. Hit enter so that you go into the color temperature setup menu. Hit enter again for whatever one you're using (in my case Custom 1). When the cursor goes over to the other window you will see the image change even though you haven't changed any settings at all. Mine is a DRAMATIC shift as my calibration is vastly different than whatever mode the PJ is defaulting to. I recommend doing this anytime you think the image looks off and definitely after each power up once you have a source running on screen.
post #130 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
I would almost bet this has to do with the HDMI issue that affects RS40/X3 models. I've talked about this in the owner's thread. When you power on the RS40 it does not use the current settings regardless of what you see in the menu. It usually takes the HDMI input resetting to get to what is actually set in the menus.

To fix this, after start up when you have a source running, go into the menu and scroll down to color temperature. Hit enter so that you go into the color temperature setup menu. Hit enter again for whatever one you're using (in my case Custom 1). When the cursor goes over to the other window you will see the image change even though you haven't changed any settings at all. Mine is a DRAMATIC shift as my calibration is vastly different than whatever mode the PJ is defaulting to. I recommend doing this anytime you think the image looks off and definitely after each power up once you have a source running on screen.
I'll second Kris' recommendation here. This is something that needs to be addressed by JVC via firmware.
post #131 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I would almost bet this has to do with the HDMI issue that affects RS40/X3 models. I've talked about this in the owner's thread. When you power on the RS40 it does not use the current settings regardless of what you see in the menu. It usually takes the HDMI input resetting to get to what is actually set in the menus.

To fix this, after start up when you have a source running, go into the menu and scroll down to color temperature. Hit enter so that you go into the color temperature setup menu. Hit enter again for whatever one you're using (in my case Custom 1). When the cursor goes over to the other window you will see the image change even though you haven't changed any settings at all. Mine is a DRAMATIC shift as my calibration is vastly different than whatever mode the PJ is defaulting to. I recommend doing this anytime you think the image looks off and definitely after each power up once you have a source running on screen.

Kris,

Are you saying we should always go through this process when turning on the RS40? I currently use "User1" which is setup with the settings from DarinP, I believe. This seems to work fine. Are these User1 settings actually malfunctioning at startup as you describe? or are you talking about something else?
post #132 of 431
Kris Deering wrote

Quote:
I would almost bet this has to do with the HDMI issue that affects RS40/X3 models. I've talked about this in the owner's thread. When you power on the RS40 it does not use the current settings regardless of what you see in the menu. It usually takes the HDMI input resetting to get to what is actually set in the menus.

To fix this, after start up when you have a source running, go into the menu and scroll down to color temperature. Hit enter so that you go into the color temperature setup menu. Hit enter again for whatever one you're using (in my case Custom 1). When the cursor goes over to the other window you will see the image change even though you haven't changed any settings at all. Mine is a DRAMATIC shift as my calibration is vastly different than whatever mode the PJ is defaulting to. I recommend doing this anytime you think the image looks off and definitely after each power up once you have a source running on screen.
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Home Theater Magazine

I tried taking it off auto and selecting the color manually, there was only one other choice other than rgb in both the component and HDMI. I do not think that is the problem.

I will try this latest suggestion.

Is there a master reset? If so where is it and does it reset all previous settings? I think that is where I should start.

A final question, if I reset everything then should I cycle through the settings to get a true starting point then rather than whatever the unit is defaulting to?

Say I start out with the film setting and make adjustments to it, when I hit user one does that user one setting now associate with film on that input for the next start up? If I was to make another change to it the following day when I hit user one has that change been saved?
post #133 of 431
Please keep thread on topic. Any questions regarding JVC deliveries to AVS please see this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1315150

Thanks for your participation.
post #134 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackB View Post

Kris,

Are you saying we should always go through this process when turning on the RS40? I currently use "User1" which is setup with the settings from DarinP, I believe. This seems to work fine. Are these User1 settings actually malfunctioning at startup as you describe? or are you talking about something else?

Yes. It has nothing to do with what your settings are. It is that the projector doesn't initially use your settings when you turn it on, even if they are what is displayed in the menu. When you turn on the PJ AND YOU HAVE A SOURCE UP AND RUNNING, do the procedure I mentioned. It should only take you a second or two. See if the image changes. If it doesn't, your fine. If it does, you know you need to do this going forward if the image looks off. You should notice the change immediately.
post #135 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi2000 View Post

Kris Deering wrote



I tried taking it off auto and selecting the color manually, there was only one other choice other than rgb in both the component and HDMI. I do not think that is the problem.

I will try this latest suggestion.

Is there a master reset? If so where is it and does it reset all previous settings? I think that is where I should start.

A final question, if I reset everything then should I cycle through the settings to get a true starting point then rather than whatever the unit is defaulting to?

Say I start out with the film setting and make adjustments to it, when I hit user one does that user one setting now associate with film on that input for the next start up? If I was to make another change to it the following day when I hit user one has that change been saved?

No need to do anything this drastic. Just make sure that before you calibrate the PJ is actually using the default settings it says it is by doing what I mentioned before once you have everything up and running. Depending on how the PJ started up and any HDMI synching that took place, this may or may not even be an issue for your setup, but it is certainly worth verifying.
post #136 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

No need to do anything this drastic. Just make sure that before you calibrate the PJ is actually using the default settings it says it is by doing what I mentioned before once you have everything up and running. Depending on how the PJ started up and any HDMI synching that took place, this may or may not even be an issue for your setup, but it is certainly worth verifying.

Does this apply to the rs50 as well?
post #137 of 431
where do you go to find the gain and offset adjustments, ive looked everywhere, and in the service menu?? I havent updated to newest firmware yet, is that why I dont have it?
post #138 of 431
I don't think so. We did the test to see if the 50 was doing the same thing on our review unit and it wasn't. I've been able to replicate it on any RS40/X3.
post #139 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
where do you go to find the gain and offset adjustments, ive looked everywhere, and in the service menu?? I havent updated to newest firmware yet, is that why I dont have it?
you have to set the color temp to custom, then you can go in and adjust the gains and offsets, select baseline color temp, etc. What meter/software are you calibrating the grey scale with?

i've had to pull out quite a bit of green / blue to compensate for the lack of red in this particular bulb I have on my RS50. I will post my chromapure results this upcoming weekend after I go in for round 2.
post #140 of 431
Some tips I've gleaned from this thread and several others:

- adjust iris settings to your liking (12-16 ftL). I recommend in the higher range as adjusting will lower it.
- adjust black level/contrast first!
- Do not adjust green; use RB to adjust green.
- Do not use any positive adjustments, only negative.
- Start with adjusting gains - but only start, make some changes but then move on to offsets.
- Move between gain to offset adjustments and back and forth until you get what you are looking for - try to make minimal changes.
- adjust black level/contrast again.
- Move on to color adjustment.
post #141 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post
you have to set the color temp to custom, then you can go in and adjust the gains and offsets, select baseline color temp, etc. What meter/software are you calibrating the grey scale with?

i've had to pull out quite a bit of green / blue to compensate for the lack of red in this particular bulb I have on my RS50. I will post my chromapure results this upcoming weekend after I go in for round 2.
the eye1 LT, i know its not quite in favor but it was cheap and as this is my first time calibrating and not having a CLUE what im doing, i figured it was a good starting point. once i get the hang of it, maybe i will look for a chroma 5 but not yet. I just crested 100 hours last night and the meter should be arriving by the end of the week so hopefully once it gets here, i will read the "dummy" thread and things will go smoothly. I have noted the points in the above post and plan to follow accordingly.

I will be DLing the avs cal disk and will be using the free software.
post #142 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

Some tips I've gleaned from this thread and several others:

- adjust iris settings to your liking (12-16 ftL). I recommend in the higher range as adjusting will lower it.

Hi All,

The subject of this projector having calibrated lumens much lower than the specs is starting to get a lot of attention.

JVC RS40 Lumens

No doubt I could use a bit of an education on this subject.

Will the measured foot-lamberts using budget calibration hardware and software (as described in the first posting) help us get a better appreciation of this potential problem? Can we calculate a meaningful lumen value considering screen size and gain? Or do we need an expensive professional light meter to measure calibrated lumens?

Thanks.

Larry
post #143 of 431
Yes, I was asking few posts up for suggestions how to measure the light output... my RS40 just came! I have light meter and colormeter (i1).
post #144 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

Yes, I was asking few posts up for suggestions how to measure the light output... my RS40 just came! I have light meter and colormeter (i1).

Hi Mat,

Your question wan't posted in this thread, but rather the owner's thread. I'll quote it here and perhaps one of the experts here might provide an answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

I am expecting to receive my RS40 today. I'd like to measure and track its light output. Being a projector newbie, what procedure are you suggesting to get consistent results? I have photo light meter (a Sekonic) and a colormeter at my disposal. I guess, I should display a white screen and take measurements at a consistent distance. What other settings I should choose on the projector?

Larry
post #145 of 431
Oops. Thanks, Larry!
post #146 of 431
Thread Starter 
For accurately measuring the lumens output (and contrast ratio) from a projector you need a light meter such as the AEMC CA813. HERE is the AVS thread discussing the tools for measuring lumens (actually measuring lux from which you can calculate lumens). While you use sensors such as the eye-one to calibrate grey scale and colors, they are not the correct tool for measuring lumens.
post #147 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

the eye1 LT, i know its not quite in favor but it was cheap and as this is my first time calibrating and not having a CLUE what im doing, i figured it was a good starting point. once i get the hang of it, maybe i will look for a chroma 5 but not yet. I just crested 100 hours last night and the meter should be arriving by the end of the week so hopefully once it gets here, i will read the "dummy" thread and things will go smoothly. I have noted the points in the above post and plan to follow accordingly.

I will be DLing the avs cal disk and will be using the free software.

I did the same thing a few weeks ago, started with the the Display LT. I also brought one home from work as well. The problem I ran into is, the meters just weren't accurate enough. Both were off with reds by quite a bit. My resulting grey scale calibration was less than ideal.

it's ok to get the basics down, but I quickly outgrew it within a few days (what good is a calibration if the meter isn't right?). I recently picked up the Chroma 5 pro and the first grey scale calibration looks great.

if your set on keep the display lt, you can send it to Tom Huffman for a calibration, but will require a license of Chromapure. The Chroma 5 is nice because it doesn't require a dark calibration at any time.
post #148 of 431
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I did the same thing a few weeks ago, started with the the Display LT. I also brought one home from work as well. The problem I ran into is, the meters just weren't accurate enough. Both were off with reds by quite a bit. My resulting grey scale calibration was less than ideal.

it's ok to get the basics down, but I quickly outgrew it within a few days (what good is a calibration if the meter isn't right?). I recently picked up the Chroma 5 pro and the first grey scale calibration looks great.

if your set on keep the display lt, you can send it to Tom Huffman for a calibration, but will require a license of Chromapure. The Chroma 5 is nice because it doesn't require a dark calibration at any time.

Could you post your Chromapure graphs after calibration with the Chroma 5 and also for the exact same projector setup the results you get using your Eye-one Display 2 LT (using Chromapure or whatever software you are using with the Eye-one).
post #149 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

Could you post your Chromapure graphs after calibration with the Chroma 5 and also for the exact same projector setup the results you get using your Eye-one Display 2 LT (using Chromapure or whatever software you are using with the Eye-one).

Ron, Hi i replied to this request in the other thread. I will definitely get to this soon, just haven't had the time to do a comparison. I spent 5 hours last friday night calibrating and swore I wouldn't stare at 10-100 IRE screens this week, I actually watched a movie or two.
post #150 of 431
Last night I did a full calibration on the RS40 for 3D. Went pretty smoothly. I used the Radiance XE to trick the projector into a forced 3D mode and used the internal test patterns of the lumagen to calibrate. I had the PR650 shooting through the JVC active shutter glasses to compensate for any tint.

I used the User 2 preset and used the normal gamma and 8500 presets as my starting point. One thing of note for those considering this route, make sure the meter you're using is good at really low light levels. Going through the glasses makes for REALLY low levels when you're doing grayscale and color measurements. I had the meter just a few feet from the screen and was still getting low single digit reading for 100 IRE.

After calibration was done the image looked terrific, though still dim. I am getting about 3 fL on my screen through the glasses but the brightness never seems to be that bothersome in my batcave surprisingly. Still looks brighter than what I'm seeing at the local cinemas.
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