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JVC RS40/X3 Calibration Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 431
2/16/11 at 1:35pm
require a license for chromapure? as in a license to purchase the software? How in the world would one go about this?
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post #152 of 431
2/16/11 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

require a license for chromapure? as in a license to purchase the software? How in the world would one go about this?

here is how it works. Tom at Chromapure will take a meter (either a Chroma 5 or a display LT) and calibrate it against an expensive reference meter. He creates an offset and this information is stored in your unique license file for Chromapure.

with this setup, you can have the confidence that the meter is calibrated correctly and not sending you on a wild goose chase, which is what my original Display LT did.. the resulting calibration with it was less than ideal and I ended up scrapping hours of work.
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post #153 of 431
2/16/11 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

with this setup, you can have the confidence that the meter is calibrated correctly and not sending you on a wild goose chase, which is what my original Display LT did.. the resulting calibration with it was less than ideal and I ended up scrapping hours of work.

With you there. I have a new i1 LT coming, but I am worried that it's going to be a waste of both time and money - again.

My original LT was probably 5 years old, loaned it out a few times and that probably didn't help keep in accurate.

We'll see, the ChromaPure site speaks highly of the LT however - there's no mention of calibration per meter though when checking out there bundle info.
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post #154 of 431
2/16/11 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

With you there. I have a new i1 LT coming, but I am worried that it's going to be a waste of both time and money - again.

My original LT was probably 5 years old, loaned it out a few times and that probably didn't help keep in accurate.

We'll see, the ChromaPure site speaks highly of the LT however - there's no mention of calibration per meter though when checking out there bundle info.

I was told the 1Lt at best (factory calibration) could be about 80% or so accurate. Based on 2 that I have here (1 new, 1 about a year old) it seems about right. Both are poor-average on correctly reading my red levels for some reason.

http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_EyeOneDisplay2.shtm

this discusses how they calibrate the meter against a known reference. The only problem is, how are you going to know if the new, out of the box LT is working correctly? There has to be some kind of reference otherwise it's another guessing game.

I decided to finally spend a few $$ to get a meter that I now know is accurate and measured against a known reference. The Chroma 5 Pro is nice because it doesn't require a dark calibration at any time.
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post #155 of 431
2/16/11 at 4:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

For accurately measuring the lumens output (and contrast ratio) from a projector you need a light meter such as the AEMC CA813. HERE is the AVS thread discussing the tools for measuring lumens (actually measuring lux from which you can calculate lumens). While you use sensors such as the eye-one to calibrate grey scale and colors, they are not the correct tool for mesuring lumens.

Thanks for the pointer. Why would regular ambient light meter such as Sekonic L-358 be inadequate?

Kinda moot for me anyway, since the RS40 I received today is DOA
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post #156 of 431
2/17/11 at 7:54am
Does it cost to have the eye1 calibrated? Where would I get the chromapure software and is it free? Im still licking my wounds from completing the HT so i went with a cheap option for a calibrator to start with, but if its going to be WAY off, i might as well send it back and live the mantra ignorance is bliss... until i can afford a better meter. Does anyone around here rent out chroma 5's? will the eye1 or the chroma even measure lumens?
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post #157 of 431
2/17/11 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Does it cost to have the eye1 calibrated? Where would I get the chromapure software and is it free? Im still licking my wounds from completing the HT so i went with a cheap option for a calibrator to start with, but if its going to be WAY off, i might as well send it back and live the mantra ignorance is bliss... until i can afford a better meter. Does anyone around here rent out chroma 5's? will the eye1 or the chroma even measure lumens?

see my link above, curtpalme is a chromapure dealer and has the pricing listed, this is commercial software and not free, but imo, very affordable for what it does.

you send the display 2 to Tom, he calibrates it against an expensive reference meter, and creates an offset license file which he will email along with a download to his software. The pricing for calibrating an existing meter is all on that link I posted above.

For all the $$ I've spent on my HT, this is at the top of the list for return on investment. Each projector is going to vary widely from copy to copy, the only way to know what needs to be done to correct the image is with an accurate meter.
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post #158 of 431
2/17/11 at 8:43am
In my case im perfectly happy to have 80% correct numbers for the price versus 90% right numbers for the chroma 5. the LT and some free software should be just fine for now and perhaps in several months or when I hit 500H on the bulb I will look at a nicer meter then. Thanks for the help all, I will transmit my numbers later this evening hopefully
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post #159 of 431
2/17/11 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

In my case im perfectly happy to have 80% correct numbers for the price versus 90% right numbers for the chroma 5. the LT and some free software should be just fine for now and perhaps in several months or when I hit 500H on the bulb I will look at a nicer meter then. Thanks for the help all, I will transmit my numbers later this evening hopefully

If 80% is good enough for you, why even calibrate it?
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post #160 of 431
2/17/11 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I used the Radiance XE to trick the projector into a forced 3D mode and used the internal test patterns of the lumagen to calibrate. I had the PR650 shooting through the JVC active shutter glasses to compensate for any tint.

Hmm. Do you think there is a way (without an external video processor)to force the RS40 into 3D mode so that you can calibrate with a 2D disc/software? Also, did you have to hold the glasses in front of the meter the hold time, or you came up with some type of mount for it?
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post #161 of 431
2/17/11 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

If 80% is good enough for you, why even calibrate it?

are you going to really notice a difference between 80% correct values versus 90% correct values? without looking at the technicals on your laptop?
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post #162 of 431
2/17/11 at 9:35am
i want to calibrate because these meters will take out MOST of the bias my eyes might read in the image and get CLOSE to true values. They dont have to be exact for me, just close enough that I am viewing the media as it was intended to be viewed. I may look at an image with the reds off the chart and think it looks fine while someone else may say it looks terrible. If I can get that number to 80% accurate, then im content for the time being.

oh im 200 posts old now. I dont feel any different though
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post #163 of 431
2/17/11 at 9:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

are you going to really notice a difference between 80% correct values versus 90% correct values? without looking at the technicals on your laptop?

my point was that "80% correct numbers" is probably what you get out of the box with no changes lol.
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post #164 of 431
2/17/11 at 9:46am
ive just noticed some folks who have had to pull the greens and blues out considerably to get close, it seems my bulb needs the same treatment. But i dont know have far they need to go! If you knew me like I do, i will use this eye one perhaps once, sell it and then have a chroma 5 by the end of march, I know it will happen, i just have to talk myself out of it for at least a few weeks. cmon and support me!
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post #165 of 431
2/17/11 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
In my case im perfectly happy to have 80% correct numbers for the price versus 90% right numbers for the chroma 5. the LT and some free software should be just fine for now and perhaps in several months or when I hit 500H on the bulb I will look at a nicer meter then. Thanks for the help all, I will transmit my numbers later this evening hopefully
The percent discussion of accurate isn't really meaningly. if the meter (like the 2 Display 2's I have here) has a weakness for measure red, then the entire calibration will be off. I spent almost 6 hours between the 2 meters and I could have done a better job with just my eyes which isn't say much.

in the end, if the meter isn't measured / calibrated against a known reference device, then I'm not sure I see the point in spending even 10 minutes in the attempt to calibrate the image.

With the Chroma 5 pro from Tom, I have the confidence that when RGB says 100%, i'm pretty darn close.
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post #166 of 431
2/17/11 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post
Hmm. Do you think there is a way (without an external video processor)to force the RS40 into 3D mode so that you can calibrate with a 2D disc/software? Also, did you have to hold the glasses in front of the meter the hold time, or you came up with some type of mount for it?
There is no way I know of to calibrate the 3D mode without doing something like this. Plus, you would need an outboard processor to calibrate the color anyway as the RS40 doesn't have a CMS and you can't calibrate its gamma modes for 3D.

I put the glasses in front of the meter and taped them in place so they wouldn't move. You could use a tripod if needed though.
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post #167 of 431
2/18/11 at 5:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

There is no way I know of to calibrate the 3D mode without doing something like this. Plus, you would need an outboard processor to calibrate the color anyway as the RS40 doesn't have a CMS and you can't calibrate its gamma modes for 3D.

I put the glasses in front of the meter and taped them in place so they wouldn't move. You could use a tripod if needed though.

Can this be done with the RadianceMini-3D?
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post #168 of 431
2/18/11 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mskreis View Post

Can this be done with the RadianceMini-3D?

Yep!
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post #169 of 431
2/18/11 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

After calibration was done the image looked terrific, though still dim. I am getting about 3 fL on my screen through the glasses but the brightness never seems to be that bothersome in my batcave surprisingly. Still looks brighter than what I'm seeing at the local cinemas.

Hi Kris,

In 2D mode did you happen to measure the calibrated lumens for your projector?

Thanks.

Larry
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post #170 of 431
2/18/11 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I would almost bet this has to do with the HDMI issue that affects RS40/X3 models. I've talked about this in the owner's thread. When you power on the RS40 it does not use the current settings regardless of what you see in the menu. It usually takes the HDMI input resetting to get to what is actually set in the menus.

To fix this, after start up when you have a source running, go into the menu and scroll down to color temperature. Hit enter so that you go into the color temperature setup menu. Hit enter again for whatever one you're using (in my case Custom 1). When the cursor goes over to the other window you will see the image change even though you haven't changed any settings at all. Mine is a DRAMATIC shift as my calibration is vastly different than whatever mode the PJ is defaulting to. I recommend doing this anytime you think the image looks off and definitely after each power up once you have a source running on screen.

Has JVC acknowledged this bug and is there any date for a fix??
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post #171 of 431
2/18/11 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

...I put the glasses in front of the meter and taped them in place so they wouldn't move. You could use a tripod if needed though.

Hi Kris - I've been waiting to hear about folks that have measured with glasses inserted before the meter, like you did. However I cannot find the post with your report on the results from doing this. Can you point me to it?
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post #172 of 431
2/18/11 at 7:29pm
There was no report other than saying I did it. I will probably do a report on it later though.
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post #173 of 431
2/18/11 at 8:56pm
Hi,

about brightness measure, you can use a lightmeter as this :

http://www.conrad.fr/luxmetre_numeri...words&ns_fee=0

If you know your screen's gain and when you have the résult in lux with the light meter, you can use these spreadsheet to determine the feet lambert number (or candelas by m²) :


http://www.homecinema-fr.com/Colorim...luminosite.xls

Sorry, the spreadsheets are in french but it IMHO, it's easy to understand.

You use the sheet "éclairement connu" and fill in :
- the screen width,
- the screen ratio (4/3, 16/9 or 2.35)
- the gain (generally indicated by the producer)

You indicate the lux number read by the light meter and you know if you are at 14 fL (or 48,1 Cd/m²), more or less.

Or if you want have a general idea, you go on this answer :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/v...=30#p171317981
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post #174 of 431
2/19/11 at 8:32am
Hi,

Has anyone used the Screen Adjust setting?

According to the manual the Screen Adjust setting "It corrects the white balance fault according to the reflective properties of the projection screen. Please adjust to your preference."

Can someone please describe this a bit more to a rookie? What is white balance fault?

Will this Screen Adjust setting help or hurt a calibration?

Could this come in handy when using a grey screen?

Thanks.

Larry
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post #175 of 431
2/19/11 at 4:05pm
Is 80% good enough? It depends. For calibrations, no way. For scoring with hot chicks or hitting a baseball? 80% would be legendary.
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post #176 of 431
2/19/11 at 4:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

Has anyone used the Screen Adjust setting?

According to the manual the Screen Adjust setting "It corrects the white balance fault according to the reflective properties of the projection screen. Please adjust to your preference."

Can someone please describe this a bit more to a rookie? What is white balance fault?

Will this Screen Adjust setting help or hurt a calibration?

Could this come in handy when using a grey screen?

Thanks.

Larry

Somewhere on the JVC site there is a PDF with a table of screens/code. There's like 100 screens or so and code for the 50/60. The RS-40 has 3 I think. I can't remember where on the site it is. I know that the link has been posted a few time in the giant 40/50/60 thread now closed I'm sure a search would find it.

If you find the link, it's not obvious there's a small tab to switch over the the values for the RS-40 if I remember correctly. I know I have to set it to 0 for the ST130 G3.
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post #177 of 431
2/19/11 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbroke View Post

Somewhere on the JVC site there is a PDF with a table of screens/code. There's like 100 screens or so and code for the 50/60. The RS-40 has 3 I think. I can't remember where on the site it is. I know that the link has been posted a few time in the giant 40/50/60 thread now closed I'm sure a search would find it.

If you find the link, it's not obvious there's a small tab to switch over the the values for the RS-40 if I remember correctly. I know I have to set it to 0 for the ST130 G3.

Hi,

Thanks for the lead.

I found the following on the JVC website FAQ.

Quote:


What is the Screen Adjust setting in the Adjustment Menu used for?
The DLA-RS50 and DLA-RS60 have 99 screen mode settings and the DLA-RS40 has 3 modes. This feature provides an automatic preset color correction to compensate for the coloration effects of various screen fabrics. Some screen fabrics reflect all colors in the spectrum nearly equally, resulting in a reference white surface. However, some screen fabrics slightly alter the projected light from the projector, and the Screen Adjust feature is a way to compensate for any natural alteration from a screen surface. In addition, Screen Adjust setting “99” is used to automatically color correct for the tint effect of the 3D glasses (Screen Adjust setting “99” is used only if not using THX for 3D, as this color correction feature for 3D glasses is automatic with THX). JVC will publish a list of screens modes and the matching screen fabrics soon.

So for the RS40s the owners should be using the Screen Adjust setting of "99" when viewing 3D, unless they are using a video processor as Kris has done?

Larry

P.S. I also found the following exchanges in the giant 40/50/60 thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

I have the DaLite cinima vision fabric screen which is 1.3 gain. Is there a thing in the rs 50 menue that I enter a specific number that changes the projector image? What do I do and what do I set it to? Sorry I dont know much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Mark Yes. You can look up the fabric preset, enter it, and the projector will adjust itself for the color shift caused by the particular screen fabric. This feature is for those who don`t calibrate their projector. If yoiu calibrate your projector, the color shift caused by the screen fabric ids automatically taken into account by measuring the colors etc bounced off the screen making this preset screen fabric function redundant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

Using this option also makes the other presets behave more as intended without mutation from your screen fabric. A lot of attention has been made with the X7 and X9 to simulate Xenon bulbs or to take-on the colour space of the DCI standard etc. So while most people may only use their calibrated preset, some may also enjoy the built-in presets too.

Unlike previous JVC projectors more effort has been made to simulate various standards and usages rather than just creating what they thought looked good in an engineering studio in Japan.
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post #178 of 431
2/20/11 at 11:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

The percent discussion of accurate isn't really meaningly. if the meter (like the 2 Display 2's I have here) has a weakness for measure red, then the entire calibration will be off. I spent almost 6 hours between the 2 meters and I could have done a better job with just my eyes which isn't say much.

in the end, if the meter isn't measured / calibrated against a known reference device, then I'm not sure I see the point in spending even 10 minutes in the attempt to calibrate the image.

With the Chroma 5 pro from Tom, I have the confidence that when RGB says 100%, i'm pretty darn close.

I concur with the lack of red issue..just got a new i1 LT and its red readings are clearly too low.
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post #179 of 431
2/20/11 at 11:31am
Ok, just got a new i1 LT. It looks to be far more accurate than my old unit which had issues with green - and possibly other colors.

Here is my default Film, -1,0,0,0, 65K, Norm Gamma, Standard Space. You can see the lack of red sensitivity.

Attachment 202541 Attachment 202542Attachment 202543 Attachment 202544Attachment 202545

IMHO, there's a good chance that just setting your projector to the Film mode; 65K Temp, Normal Gamma, Standard Space and adjusting black level/contrast will provide a very good picture with pretty accurate colors/grey-scale for those that don't have or trust their color meter or don't want to mess with it.
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post #180 of 431
2/20/11 at 2:10pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

Ok, just got a new i1 LT. It looks to be far more accurate than my old unit which had issues with green - and possibly other colors.

Here is my default Film, -1,0,0,0, 65K, Norm Gamma, Standard Space. You can see the lack of red sensitivity.

Attachment 202541 Attachment 202542Attachment 202543 Attachment 202544Attachment 202545

IMHO, there's a good chance that just setting your projector to the Film mode; 65K Temp, Normal Gamma, Standard Space and adjusting black level/contrast will provide a very good picture with pretty accurate colors/grey-scale for those that don't have or trust their color meter or don't want to mess with it.

You may want to also try Natural picture mode with Standard Colorspace because it appears with some units that provides the most accurate color points with the JVC RS40/X3 projectors.
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