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JVC RS40/X3 Calibration Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post

Thanks Ron. Can you recommend a accurate low cost colormeter? (low cost and accurate seem to be an oxymoron, but one can try).

I'm also very interested in recommendations in this area.

I've been looking at the Chroma 5 / Chromapure bundle, but it's a bit pricey for me, so I'd be looking for a cheaper alternative that can still deliver pretty good results.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #212 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post


I'm also very interested in recommendations in this area.

I've been looking at the Chroma 5 / Chromapure bundle, but it's a bit pricey for me, so I'd be looking for a cheaper alternative that can still deliver pretty good results.

Me too looking for some recommendations. Looks like the eye-one LT is the only one that's not too bad and below $150. Anything else in the $100-150 range (without counting software)?
post #213 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

I'm also very interested in recommendations in this area.

I've been looking at the Chroma 5 / Chromapure bundle, but it's a bit pricey for me, so I'd be looking for a cheaper alternative that can still deliver pretty good results.

I had 2 1LT's and neither was very accurate. I sold 1 and have the other sitting here. What is the point in calibration if there is no reference to go by? Perhaps consider sending it to Tom for the calibration + Chromapure standard license. When I measure my 1LT vs the Chroma 5 Pro, I found the 1LT off by quite a bit..

IMO, the chroma 5 Pro is the way to go. No dark readings are necessary saving time. For a fair price, Tom will calibrate it against an expensive reference quality meter and build the offsets into the license file. When I calibrate, I know it's about as good as it can get for an under 1k meter. The software is great to use, easy learning curve and the built in help is fantastic.
post #214 of 431
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

I'm also very interested in recommendations in this area.

I've been looking at the Chroma 5 / Chromapure bundle, but it's a bit pricey for me, so I'd be looking for a cheaper alternative that can still deliver pretty good results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohotos View Post

Me too looking for some recommendations. Looks like the eye-one LT is the only one that's not too bad and below $150. Anything else in the $100-150 range (without counting software)?

The Eye-one LT is generally considered the best buy for a low cost (ie., $150 price range) colorimeter. The HCFR Software is freeware and is widely used with the various Eye-one models. For a step up if you purchase the Chromapure software you can have them calibrate your Eye-one LT (for a fee). For some more $$ you can go with a calibrated Chroma 5 along with the Chromapure software.
post #215 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronsonbdevost View Post

I found that Film mode, 6500K, standard color was very close on my unit, so that might be a good starting point.

Thanks
post #216 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

The Eye-one LT is generally considered the best buy for a low cost (ie., $150 price range) colorimeter. The HCFR Software is freeware and is widely used with the various Eye-one models. For a step up if you purchase the Chromapure software you can have them calibrate your Eye-one LT (for a fee). For some more $$ you can go with a calibrated Chroma 5 along with the Chromapure software.

Thanks! Since the RS40 doesn't have CMS and I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm not yet that interested in spending too much cash. I think I'll start with the Eye-One LT and the freeware, and go from there.
post #217 of 431
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Thanks! Since the RS40 doesn't have CMS and I don't really know what I'm doing, I'm not yet that interested in spending too much cash. I think I'll start with the Eye-One LT and the freeware, and go from there.

See Post #1 of this thread for links to the calibration for dummies guide and info for downloading and burning the AVS HD Calibration Disc.
post #218 of 431
"Good news the next release of CalMAN v4.2x will have support for the JVC RS-40"

Quote from Derek Smith in the SpectraCal forums.
post #219 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

"Good news the next release of CalMAN v4.2x will have support for the JVC RS-40"

Quote from Derek Smith in the SpectraCal forums.

Do you mean auto-calibration? I thought that would only be for the RS50 and RS60. Also, I think they plan on charging well over $2000 for it, way to expensive for my taste. Does the RS40 really have all the capabilities necessary to be calibrated without an external processor?
post #220 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by bronsonbdevost View Post


Do you mean auto-calibration? I thought that would only be for the RS50 and RS60. Also, I think they plan on charging well over $2000 for it, way to expensive for my taste. Does the RS40 really have all the capabilities necessary to be calibrated without an external processor?

Since the RS40 doesn't have CMS, it would only auto calibrate grayscale and gamma.

If it were me, I would just get a Lumagen mini (which has a full CMS) and use that with CalMan.
post #221 of 431
I am wondering if anyone is using an RS40 and a PCH A-210 for movies? I ask because I am trying to figure out if I should set the RS40 to Wide1 and PCH A-210 to 0-255 colorspace for watching movies, then calibrate based on those settings. Any insight is appreciated.
post #222 of 431
I had some time tonight to finally mess around with the projector. I have under two hours on so it is basically brand new. But I have some questions about some of the settings.

I will be watching almost soley blu-rays with some HD video (Sports) via cable on the projector. My goal is to get is as close to reference as possible.

1. What color space should I use when calibrating? Standard, Wide1 or Wide2?
2. I see a setting labled black level should I leave that at 0 or should I adjust? If I adjust does it mess with contrast and brightness?
3. I see a setting for HDMI that can be set to standard, enhanced and superwhite. What should I set this to?

Sorry for the newbie questions.
post #223 of 431
At 71 lamp hours

Calibrated with AVS BR disc for brightness/contrast and a rough 'eye' calibration for colour/gamma


2D

HDMI: Enhanced
Colour Space: Wide 1
Contrast: 15
Brightness: -6
Colour: 6
Tint: 0
Temp: 6500K
Gamma: D
Sharpness: 10
Detail Enhance: 25
Lens Aperture: -10
Lamp: Normal


3D

HDMI: Enhanced
Colour Space: Wide 1
Contrast: 15
Brightness: -6
Colour: 12
Tint: 0
Temp: 7500K
Gamma: B(3D)
Sharpness: 5
Detail Enhance: 25
Lens Aperture: -10
Lamp: High


Screen: This... http://www.selbyacoustics.com.au/sto...55&i=249819140
Room: Walls/floors dark, matte materials/colours. Ceiling is white as my wife won't budge on this! :S :P
Seating Distance: Approx. 3.5m
post #224 of 431
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepmback View Post

I had some time tonight to finally mess around with the projector. I have under two hours on so it is basically brand new. But I have some questions about some of the settings.

I will be watching almost soley blu-rays with some HD video (Sports) via cable on the projector. My goal is to get is as close to reference as possible.

1. What color space should I use when calibrating? Standard, Wide1 or Wide2?
2. I see a setting labled black level should I leave that at 0 or should I adjust? If I adjust does it mess with contrast and brightness?
3. I see a setting for HDMI that can be set to standard, enhanced and superwhite. What should I set this to?

Sorry for the newbie questions.

1. Since the RS40 does not have a color management system (CMS) for calibratiing the color points, then you should use the combination of presets that get to as close to Rec. 709 color points as possible. The "standard" Color Space setting is intended to be close to Rec. 709 and using this in combination with the "natural" Picture Mode (some people may prefer to use "film" Picture Mode instead) should get you close to the correct color points. However, if you also using an external video processor (such as the Lumagen 3Dmini) that has full CMS controls, then perhaps setting the RS40 for one of the wider color spaces will allow for better color space calibration via the external processor.

2. You can leave the Black Level set to the default of 0 to start with. If you cannot get the reference black level calibration correct (ref. black = video level 16) using the brightness adjustment, then you can use the Black Level control to fine tune the black level.

3. Any of the 3 settings for HDMI input mode can be made to work, as long as you calibrate the black and white levels for that mode. However, the "standard" setting means that black-than-black (video levels 0 to 15) and whiter-than-white (video level 236 to 255) are not passed nor displayed. Using the "enhanced" setting makes it the easiest to calibrate white and black levels using a test disc as all video levels 0-255 are passed. While the "super white" setting passes video levels 16-255. Some people like to calibrate to pass some of the whiter-than-white video (above video level 235) and either the "enhanced" or "super white" setting will support this.
post #225 of 431
To Kris Deering,

I greatly enjoyed reading your review of the JVC DLA-X3 and recommend that everyone go out and buy a copy of the May issue of Home Theater Magazine.

I was hoping you wouldn't mind responding to a newbie question.

If I'm interpreting your remarks correctly the out-of-the-box color primaries, while not perfect, were decent when the projector was set to the Standard Color Space. However, to my untrained eye the Before Calibration RGB Balance looked terrible. Was the Before Calibration measurement taken with the Color Space set to Standard? Was Picture Mode set to Natural?

I gather that our eyes are much more tolerant to color imbalances than a colorimeter?

Thanks.

Larry
post #226 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

1. Since the RS40 does not have a color management system (CMS) for calibratiing the color points, then you should use the combination of presets that get to as close to Rec. 709 color points as possible. The "standard" Color Space setting is intended to be close to Rec. 709 and using this in combination with the "natural" Picture Mode (some people may prefer to use "film" Picture Mode instead) should get you close to the correct color points. However, if you also using an external video processor (such as the Lumagen 3Dmini) that has full CMS controls, then perhaps setting the RS40 for one of the wider color spaces will allow for better color space calibration via the external processor.

2. You can leave the Black Level set to the default of 0 to start with. If you cannot get the reference black level calibration correct (ref. black = video level 16) using the brightness adjustment, then you can use the Black Level control to fine tune the black level.

3. Any of the 3 settings for HDMI input mode can be made to work, as long as you calibrate the black and white levels for that mode. However, the "standard" setting means that black-than-black (video levels 0 to 15) and whiter-than-white (video level 236 to 255) are not passed nor displayed. Using the "enhanced" setting makes it the easiest to calibrate white and black levels using a test disc as all video levels 0-255 are passed. While the "super white" setting passes video levels 16-255. Some people like to calibrate to pass some of the whiter-than-white video (above video level 235) and either the "enhanced" or "super white" setting will support this.

Ron,

Great info, I appreciate your response. I do not have a seperate VP. Based on this (this is what I was leaning to anyways) I will be using standard and calibrate based on this and set black level to zero.

Do you know if anyone makes a calibration video/file that in in MKV format or iso format? I would like to calibrate based on what my PCH A-210 puts out and would like to use that as the source.
post #227 of 431
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stepmback View Post

Ron,

Great info, I appreciate your response. I do not have a seperate VP. Based on this (this is what I was leaning to anyways) I will be using standard and calibrate based on this and set black level to zero.

Do you know if anyone makes a calibration video/file that in in MKV format or iso format? I would like to calibrate based on what my PCH A-210 puts out and would like to use that as the source.

The freeware AVS HD Calibration disc (see link in Post #1 of this thread) can be downloaded and it is an ISO file (intended for burning to a DVD but intended to the played on a Blu-ray player). Overall I've found that its set of HD calibration patterns are as good, or better, than those on the commerical HD calibration discs (e.g, Digital Video Essentials).
post #228 of 431
Thread Starter 
I've added a new Post #2 to this thread to provide calibration tips for the RS40. If you have additional calibration tips or suggested corrections or additions to what I have already posted please send me a PM.
post #229 of 431
Hi Larry,

RGB and color space are completely separate things. RGB has to do with the level of gray and color space has to do with the color primaries. Very few projectors have great out of box grayscale performance (RGB), even fewer have great color accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

To Kris Deering,

I greatly enjoyed reading your review of the JVC DLA-X3 and recommend that everyone go out and buy a copy of the May issue of Home Theater Magazine.

I was hoping you wouldn't mind responding to a newbie question.

If I'm interpreting your remarks correctly the out-of-the-box color primaries, while not perfect, were decent when the projector was set to the Standard Color Space. However, to my untrained eye the Before Calibration RGB Balance looked terrible. Was the Before Calibration measurement taken with the Color Space set to Standard? Was Picture Mode set to Natural?

I gather that our eyes are much more tolerant to color imbalances than a colorimeter?

Thanks.

Larry
post #230 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Hi Larry,

RGB and color space are completely separate things. RGB has to do with the level of gray and color space has to do with the color primaries. Very few projectors have great out of box grayscale performance (RGB), even fewer have great color accuracy.

Hi Kris,

Thanks for the response.

See, I told you it was a newbie question.

Larry
post #231 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post
5. Measuring Projector Lumens Output - If you want to measure the projector's lumen output the best measurement tool is a lux light meter. With such a lux meter the measurement is performed by placing the meter's light sensor directly in front of the projection screen with the sensor aimed back toward the projector. The lux reading can easily be converted in lumens (more on that below) and there are two measurement approaches commonly used. A projector's peak lumens output is typically based on a single measurement from directly in front of the center of the screen. (...)
So I bit and bought the light meter. 40$ was worth it and now I look like an idiot all over the house measuring lux! But anyways back to projectors... to get the lux reading in my setup, should I project a white image to get the reading? (like the 96% white in the AVS cal disk?)

Thanks!
post #232 of 431
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbroke View Post
So I bit and bought the light meter. 40$ was worth it and now I look like an idiot all over the house measuring lux! But anyways back to projectors... to get the lux reading in my setup, should I project a white image to get the reading? (like the 96% white in the AVS cal disk?)

Thanks!
As a starting point for your measurements try setting your projector's lens aperature (iris) fully open (setting of zero), lamp power to "high", the color space to "standard", the Picture Mode to "natural". and gamma to "normal". Next use the AVS HD Calibration disc to set the reference black and especially white levels. For max. lumens of output from the projector the white level should be set, using the projector's constrast control, so that on the the AVS test pattern with the flashing bars the one marked 235 can be seen flashing but very few (or even none) of the higher value bars (i.e. values 236 thru 255) are still flashing. Once you have calibrated the projector for reference white level (as described above), then display the 100% white full screen test pattern from the AVS disc. The lux meter has several ranges it can be set to and for your case the correct range will probably be the 0 to 2000 lux range. Place the lux meter sensor directly in front of the screen with the side of the sensor with the white dome pointed back toward the projector. For a peak lumens measurement place the sensor just in front of the center and the screen and measure the lux. For ANSI lumens you will need to make 9 measurements by imagining the screen divided up into a 3 x 3 grid and then taking a lux measurement at the center of each of the 9 rectangles that make up the grid. I have attached a zip file that contains an Excel spreadsheet that will do the conversion from your lux readings into the projector's lumens. You will need to enter your screen size at the top of the spreadsheet, then enter the lux value(s) that you have measured. Also when you report your results be certain to let us know both your screen size the your projector-to-screen throw distance.

 

Lux to Lumens Calc.zip 3.380859375k . file
post #233 of 431
Thanks, Ron. I haven't got my meters yet, but I have a question about your spreadsheet.

I have a CIH setup that I zoom to fill (no anamorphic lens). To determine projector lumens for full-width in that case, is it correct to use your spreadsheet set for 2.39:1 with the actual screen size, or would it be correct to use the 1.78:1 size with the actual image width?

[edit]

Or I guess I could just zoom out to 1.78:1 settings.... duh.

haven't had my coffee yet...
post #234 of 431
Thanks Ron for the detailed explaination. I will post my results. I think I'm at about 750 hours on one of the first rs40 delivered in the country back Dec 8th. Too bad I won't have any measurements when it was new.
post #235 of 431
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Dave View Post

Thanks, Ron. I haven't got my meters yet, but I have a question about your spreadsheet.

I have a CIH setup that I zoom to fill (no anamorphic lens). To determine projector lumens for full-width in that case, is it correct to use your spreadsheet set for 2.39:1 with the actual screen size, or would it be correct to use the 1.78:1 size with the actual image width?

[edit]

Or I guess I could just zoom out to 1.78:1 settings.... duh.

haven't had my coffee yet...

For your zoomed CIH 2.35 AR mode, in the spreadsheet set the AR to 1.78 then for the screen size entry you would be entering the actual diagonal image size (i.e., including the overscanned part of the 1.78 image that falls off of the actual screen). You can do this by entering a diagonal size that produces a calculated screen width value in the spreadsheet that matches the actual width of your screen. You may also want to measure the the lumens with it zoom out to an actual 1.78 image. The results (in lumens) should not be the identical since the 'f' stop of the lens changes as you zoom and thus the light loss thru the lens should be a little more when zoomed to produce a smaller projected image.
post #236 of 431
Hi to all. Can someone post calibration settings for rs40 and 100 hours bulb?
post #237 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by arktos View Post

Hi to all. Can someone post calibration settings for rs40 and 100 hours bulb?

Sorry, that's absolutely useless because of the large variation of the projectors.

Use the following settings:

1. USER 3
2. Color space : STANDARD
3. Color temperature : 6000 K
4. Gamma : 2.3

That's all. The result of that: deltaE < 4. The gamma is at 2.0 and not 2.2. So you can change it as you like.
post #238 of 431
Thanks for reply.
post #239 of 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by zbroke View Post

Thanks Ron for the detailed explaination. I will post my results. I think I'm at about 750 hours on one of the first rs40 delivered in the country back Dec 8th. Too bad I won't have any measurements when it was new.

Did you get to measure?
post #240 of 431
I am curious how people are calibrating for 3D. Should I calibrate based on the higher temp that is the default for the 3D mode or just leave that alone and adjust the contrast, brightness, tint and color?
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