AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › BIC F-12 or Polk PSW 505 (both for ~$200)
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BIC F-12 or Polk PSW 505 (both for ~$200)

post #1 of 18
1/17/11 at 2:15pm
Thread Starter 
Hi,

I found the following two competitive subwoofers both are on good deals:

BIC America F-12:
  • 12" magnetic cone
  • 150 Watt RMS (475 peak)
  • Sensitivity: 90 dB
  • $200 incld. shipping

Polk Audio PSW 505:
  • 12" magnetic cone
  • 300 Watt RMS (460 peak)
  • Sensitivity: unknown
  • $200 incld. shipping

As you can see, prices are same for both, spec is also very similar. That's why the dillema

I have seen many people on this forum have owned these subs, please share insights here. Specially, if you have had chance to listen to both which one would you go with?

My room size is approx. 22' X 20' and my budget is ~$200 for sub. For this, please mention if you have any other recommendation.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 18
1/17/11 at 4:37pm
I was in the same exact position as you recently and I ended up buying the F12.
I like their 5 year amp and driver warranty, makes me feel good that I'm covered for a solid 5 years. The PSW505 has a 3 year amp warranty.

I believe they are both comparable, but it is hard to truly judge without hearing them. Unfortunately Bic doesn't sell to retail stores, so you will have to judge it based on other reviews.

+1 for the F12, my room size is 20X14 and I recently talked to an AVS member with the same room size and he said it delivered more than enough bass. I can't wait to receive it this week.
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post #3 of 18
1/17/11 at 5:47pm
I recently purchased the PSW505. It was going to replace my Velodyne VX-11 which was going to be moved downstairs. The VX-11 sounds much much better than the 505. I'm not sure if I didn't give it enough time to break in but not even close in sound quality. I played about 20 hours through it. A little deeper though. A friend of mine who has has had quite a few high end subs agreed. He was really surprised that the vx-11 could sound so good considering it's specs and price. So all I can say is I wouldn't recommend the 505. I like Polk too and have RTi4's for fronts and surrounds. I returned the 505.
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post #4 of 18
1/17/11 at 7:52pm
I'd suggest neither, and save up for a better sub if you're looking to get the most bang for your buck w/an ID (internet direct) company such as Elemental Designs, Hsu, Rythmik, Epik, or CHT...just to name a few. The Emotiva Ultra 12 would also be a much better sub at $429 on sale shipped right now.

Read a bit more here on the forums here as there's a ton of information, and this suggestion is coming from someone that owns both the PSW10 and PSW505 right now.

Though this is my first post here, I've been a long time lurker and recently upgraded my 10+ year old system and then joined after being unhappy w/my sub purchase (everything else turned out OK) and thought I'd ask tons of questions, but just about everything I could ask has already been answered here. I thought buying a cheap sub would get me by - I first purchased the PSW10 and was completely dissatisfied, and did a bit more research and got the PSW505 thinking I didn't need an "audiophile" grade subwoofer and stayed the cheap route. While the PSW505 is in a completely different league than the PSW10, it lacks on the low end and doesn't fill my room unless placed nearfield (close to the listening area). This is in a ~15x25 room. I'm in the process of deciding on a new sub now, and could have used that $300+ towards a MUCH better sub.

Out of the Bic and the PSW505, if you're stuck on the price, I'd suggest the BiC based on the reviews here and elsewhere regarding low end extension, sound quality, and output. My suggestion on the other companies/subs is out of my own frustration and results - your sub will play a dominant role in your system, and one that may end up costing you more in the long run.
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post #5 of 18
1/17/11 at 8:16pm
I'm inclined to agree with Clev's advice about getting a better sub off the bat. I originally wanted to get a HSU stf-2, but its not on sale right now. I have two rooms, one of them is big and the other small, so I figure I'd settle with the Bic F12 for one room, until I see the stf-2 on sale.

As for Polk, they are not known for their subwoofers and I've hear a lot of people agree that Polk subs generally suck. I don't hate Polk, I have the monitor series for my other speakers and they sound great, but subs isn't their forte.
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post #6 of 18
1/17/11 at 8:24pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestion guys!

@techhappy - when r u getting your delivery? Please let me know how it sound in your room?

@djp2k7 - I am surprised to hear that VX11 outperforms a PSW505 with that spec (10" woofer and 100 watt peak!). Moreover, I can a VX11 at amazon for 180 shipped!!

@ClevATL - I agree with you on the higher end one. However, for now I have no sub and the movies are just significantly lacking it. So I want to put something within this budget for the time being.
I also noticed the recommendation tilting more towards the BIC side, but two things confused me -
  1. 300 watt vs 150 watt, I know this is logarithmic, so a PSW505 wont be twice as loud as a BIC, but it *should* still be at least ~15% louder
  2. The reviews of PSW505 owners on amazon, cnet or newegg... there are literally hundreds of owners (as opposed to a handful tens for BIC) and they seem to be super happy with their purchase. Is this because none of these people have heard a better piece?
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post #7 of 18
1/17/11 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalrashi View Post

Thanks for the suggestion guys!

@techhappy - when r u getting your delivery? Please let me know how it sound in your room?

@djp2k7 - I am surprised to hear that VX11 outperforms a PSW505 with that spec (10" woofer and 100 watt peak!). Moreover, I can a VX11 at amazon for 180 shipped!!

@ClevATL - I agree with you on the higher end one. However, for now I have no sub and the movies are just significantly lacking it. So I want to put something within this budget for the time being.
I also noticed the recommendation tilting more towards the BIC side, but two things confused me -
  1. 300 watt vs 150 watt, I know this is logarithmic, so a PSW505 wont be twice as loud as a BIC, but it *should* still be at least ~15% louder
  2. The reviews of PSW505 owners on amazon, cnet or newegg... there are literally hundreds of owners (as opposed to a handful tens for BIC) and they seem to be super happy with their purchase. Is this because none of these people have heard a better piece?

Check out the F12 thread which has over 1700 posts, you will get a better idea of what people think of it. Most people used to buy the F12 through another online retailer: BLT, because it used to regularly cost more to buy on Amazon. Sometimes the price for the F12 on Amazon has ballooned up to about $260, as compared to BLT, which has always had it for around $180, and it was almost always out of stock so people would wait from a month or two to get one through shopblt.com, even right now the F12 seems to be sold out at BLT.

I'm a proud owner of two F12s, so I'm a bit biased, but I would say pick either one on amazon and see if you like it, if you like it then great if not return it and get the other one.
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post #8 of 18
1/17/11 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalrashi View Post

Thanks for the suggestion guys!

@techhappy - when r u getting your delivery? Please let me know how it sound in your room?

@djp2k7 - I am surprised to hear that VX11 outperforms a PSW505 with that spec (10" woofer and 100 watt peak!). Moreover, I can a VX11 at amazon for 180 shipped!!

@ClevATL - I agree with you on the higher end one. However, for now I have no sub and the movies are just significantly lacking it. So I want to put something within this budget for the time being.
I also noticed the recommendation tilting more towards the BIC side, but two things confused me -
  1. 300 watt vs 150 watt, I know this is logarithmic, so a PSW505 wont be twice as loud as a BIC, but it *should* still be at least ~15% louder
  2. The reviews of PSW505 owners on amazon, cnet or newegg... there are literally hundreds of owners (as opposed to a handful tens for BIC) and they seem to be super happy with their purchase. Is this because none of these people have heard a better piece?

* From what I've read, it takes 10X the power to equal 2X the sound with the SAME speaker. There's a lot of factors in play though since we're comparing two different subs. Driver efficiency, port tuning frequency, box size, etc. are just a start. If you're looking at equal speakers, the difference numerically would only be 5% (150/3000).

* I'm not at all trying to say the PSW505 is a bad sub. It's a great sub for the price. Polk is a well known brand, and BiC is not known at all, and folks will go w/what they know (myself included). It will play loud, depending on room size, and sound better than any HTIB system. While I can't speak to the BiC's sound since I haven't owned one, if I were to buy at the same price again I would buy the F12 based on my experience and reading more "experienced" reviews of both subs. The price of the BiC right now on Amazon is quite a bit less than the 505 as well.

FWIW - I love Polk, but at the budget level their subs aren't the best buy IMO. That's it. I own an earlier pair of M70's, from the early 90's, that are in a completely different league than those sold today and I have had drivers replaced free twice out of warranty thanks to Polk's incredible customer service. The cabinet wear was the only reason I've replaced them as they still sounded great, and I still can't let them go to the dumpster.
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post #9 of 18
1/17/11 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevATL View Post

[snip] ...Polk is a well known brand, and BiC is not known at all... [snip]

That's not exactly true. BIC America has been in the audio industry from the '60s, and started it's own line of speakers in the early '70s.

Matt Polk (and 2 friends fresh out of college) started making handmade speakers in an old house in Baltimore around the same time (early '70s).
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post #10 of 18
1/17/11 at 9:47pm
I should be getting my F12 by next Thursday via amazon. I'll let u guys know what I think.

I saw this from another post that puts the F12 at the top of the home subwoofer pack:

http://home-subwoofers-review.toptenreviews.com/

Another interesting choice for a little more is the Klipsch Sub 12, which can be found for 250. Some people here say its great, but I hear it has amp issues, which makes me hesitate.
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post #11 of 18
1/18/11 at 2:45am
Thread Starter 
Arrite! Ordered a BIC F12 in BLT... Hugely back ordered though... Any idea how long do they generally take? The website doesn't even mention an ETA for this item!
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post #12 of 18
1/18/11 at 2:50am
That chart is ********!
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post #13 of 18
1/18/11 at 3:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elisha View Post

That chart is ********!


Why?
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post #14 of 18
1/18/11 at 6:21am
Polk 505 pretty solid bass to 40-35 Hz

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-4-2005.html

Individuals in the BIC PL-200 thread who have had the F12 and PL-200 indicate that the PL-200 is significantly better. Check the thread for how to get the best price.
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post #15 of 18
1/12/12 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalrashi View Post

Arrite! Ordered a BIC F12 in BLT... Hugely back ordered though... Any idea how long do they generally take? The website doesn't even mention an ETA for this item!

I ordered mine on Amazon and it was here in less than 5 days! That was around the Holidays aswell. Hard to say on a back order, I am waiting for a center channel and they said 5- 10 days and it has been every bit of 10 days!
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post #16 of 18
1/12/12 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClevATL View Post

I'd suggest neither, and save up for a better sub if you're looking to get the most bang for your buck w/an ID (internet direct) company such as Elemental Designs, Hsu, Rythmik, Epik, or CHT...just to name a few. The Emotiva Ultra 12 would also be a much better sub at $429 on sale shipped right now.

Read a bit more here on the forums here as there's a ton of information, and this suggestion is coming from someone that owns both the PSW10 and PSW505 right now.

Though this is my first post here, I've been a long time lurker and recently upgraded my 10+ year old system and then joined after being unhappy w/my sub purchase (everything else turned out OK) and thought I'd ask tons of questions, but just about everything I could ask has already been answered here. I thought buying a cheap sub would get me by - I first purchased the PSW10 and was completely dissatisfied, and did a bit more research and got the PSW505 thinking I didn't need an "audiophile" grade subwoofer and stayed the cheap route. While the PSW505 is in a completely different league than the PSW10, it lacks on the low end and doesn't fill my room unless placed nearfield (close to the listening area). This is in a ~15x25 room. I'm in the process of deciding on a new sub now, and could have used that $300+ towards a MUCH better sub.

Out of the Bic and the PSW505, if you're stuck on the price, I'd suggest the BiC based on the reviews here and elsewhere regarding low end extension, sound quality, and output. My suggestion on the other companies/subs is out of my own frustration and results - your sub will play a dominant role in your system, and one that may end up costing you more in the long run.

+1 on investing a good sub as it is there to stay for the longest time. In my case, I ordered the HSU VTF2.3 about 6-7 years ago. All of my other equipment has been upgraded since (receiver, speakers, source, etc...) and the HSU is still going strong. I ordered the Klipsch RW12-D last month for my other room and my 7 yrs old Hsu still outperforms the brand new Klipsch.
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post #17 of 18
1/12/12 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

The PL-200 has similar roll off!!! Ricci proved that when he tried the PL-200 outside

I love how you ignore the in-room response report of the PSW505 where the reveiwer states the PSW505 was flat from 25hz and up..... Quit the bias and get serious

You and tvuong are responding to a conversation that is a year old

Not your fault, though. I have no idea why Reefdvr27 felt the need to revive this thread.
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post #18 of 18
1/12/12 at 10:51pm
Yep. Year old thread.

For anyone else interested, I happened to notice Amazon has this on sale right now:

BIC F12

$188.38 with free shipping.
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