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Upcoming Sony Hx9v as a top camcorder - Page 2

post #31 of 419
5/20/11 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Boy, did this thread get sidetracked!

Here is a video showing some of the capabilties of the Hx9v using 108060p. It is also downloadable.

http://www.vimeo.com/22637271

Over 1,600 hits on Vimeo (it seems on Vimeo and Youtube if the title has "Test Video" it attracts more viewers).

What could we expect seeing the Undertaker has chimed into it.
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post #32 of 419
5/20/11 at 1:53pm
Anyone know if this does true 60p, not interpolation or frame doubling etc?
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post #33 of 419
5/20/11 at 2:03pm
If you download one of the files from Vimeo and play it back on using Splash, 1 frame at a time, you wont see any repeat frames so Sony is not misleading with this camera unlike the Panasonic GF2 for example that has 60 frames per second in the 720p mode but the chip is only capable of outputting 30. That still depends on your definition of 60 frames per second. Unfortunately we don't have the technology to make a camera this small recording to 60p using AVC-Intra as the codec with a bit rate of 200Mbps.
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post #34 of 419
5/20/11 at 2:13pm
Same exact chip as the cx700 and 28mps bitrate so should be kosher. I will test with my hx100v
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post #35 of 419
5/20/11 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

If you download one of the files from Vimeo and play it back on using Splash, 1 frame at a time, you wont see any repeat frames so Sony is not misleading with this camera unlike the Panasonic GF2 for example that has 60 frames per second in the 720p mode but the chip is only capable of outputting 30. That still depends on your definition of 60 frames per second. Unfortunately we don't have the technology to make a camera this small recording to 60p using AVC-Intra as the codec with a bit rate of 200Mbps.

THanks for the info; after I posted I thought "I guess I could d/l a raw file & throw it in the timeline", but your method seems easier & more convenient.
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post #36 of 419
5/20/11 at 2:47pm
Thread Starter 
You can get great 1920x1080 frame grabs of action, given the progressive video.


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post #37 of 419
5/20/11 at 3:11pm
Something I just noticed is that although you get far more zoom range in the HX100v, at the widest, the lens goes to f/2.8 while the lens of the HX9v goes to f/3.3.

Anyway, here's another native example.
http://vimeo.com/23133280
That guy has more examples.
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post #38 of 419
5/20/11 at 3:13pm
Thread Starter 
That skiing video is amazing - shows the OIS and good exposure in bright snow conditions.

http://vimeo.com/23133280
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post #39 of 419
5/20/11 at 3:19pm
That's pretty amazing and shows the usefulness of a good IS
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post #40 of 419
5/20/11 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

That skiing video is amazing - shows the OIS and good exposure in bright snow conditions.

http://vimeo.com/23133280

Some jello, though the camera tries its best to compensate. Maybe in a couple of years CMOS sensors will finally become as good as CCD.

In the meantime compare to CCD performance. Sure, the resolution and bitrate are lower (this is 2006 model, 13 Mbit/s) and it is interlaced, so I had to deinterlace and vertical resolution dropped even further, but there is no freaking jello, not a hint, not even in the corners: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnSffcDkbTg

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post #41 of 419
5/20/11 at 4:06pm
Thread Starter 
This is a nice video, but gotcha : big vertical streak from the sun in the middle of the video, which you would not get with CMOS.
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post #42 of 419
5/20/11 at 11:35pm
Has anybody done any test comparing low light, colors and sharpness of HX9V against leading dedicated consumer camcorders (Sony CX700, Pana TM900, Canon HF G10)? I wonder how HX9V would score.
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post #43 of 419
5/21/11 at 7:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

This is a nice video, but gotcha : big vertical streak from the sun in the middle of the video, which you would not get with CMOS.

And that's what the CCD advocates always tend to leave out...CCD overloading (as well as other issues). To be that's uglier than some jello in the corners.
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post #44 of 419
5/21/11 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by YLK View Post

Has anybody done any test comparing low light, colors and sharpness of HX9V against leading dedicated consumer camcorders (Sony CX700, Pana TM900, Canon HF G10)? I wonder how HX9V would score.

When we first got our HX9V, I did test it in low light and it's not as good as the new Canon G10/XA10, but it's a Sony, so it's not bad at all.
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post #45 of 419
5/21/11 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


When we first got our HX9V, I did test it in low light and it's not as good as the new Canon G10/XA10, but it's a Sony, so it's not bad at all.

Ken my hx100 FINALLY shipped from best buy! Same sensor. And same as in the $1299 cx700

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=xoXBxKQZmbs

I'm psyched.
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post #46 of 419
5/21/11 at 8:50am
Thread Starter 
Actually, the Hx100v and Hx9v have the same sensor but it is not the same as the CX700v. In fact, the sensor in the Hx... cameras is larger than in the far more expensive camcorder, but with more pixels.

Specifically:

The Hx9v has a 1/2.3" (7.77mm) sensor.
The CX700v has a 1/2.88 (6.2mm) sensor.

The sensor in the Hx9v is over 25% larger.

However, the Hx9v sensor packs 16.8 Megapixels, while the Cx700v has only 6.65MP.

I would expect better low-light performance from the CX700v for two reasons:

1. Larger pixels (lower pixel density - this is the "trick" used by the Canon G10, which also has an even smaller sensor than the Hx9v).

2. Larger aperture at the wide end: f1.8 on the CX700v versus f3.3 on the Hx9v.

Similarly, the G10 has even bigger pixels and a wide-aperture lens.
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post #47 of 419
5/21/11 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Actually, the Hx100v and Hx9v have the same sensor but it is not the same as the CX700v. In fact, the sensor in the Hx... cameras is larger than in the far more expensive camcorder, but with more pixels.

Specifically:

The Hx9v has a 1/2.3" (7.77mm) sensor.
The CX700v has a 1/2.88 (6.2mm) sensor.

The sensor in the Hx9v is over 25% larger.

However, the Hx9v sensor packs 16.8 Megapixels, while the Cx700v has only 6.65MP.

I would expect better low-light performance from the CX700v for two reasons:

1. Larger pixels (lower pixel density - this is the "trick" used by the Canon G10, which also has an even smaller sensor than the Hx9v).

2. Larger aperture at the wide end: f1.8 on the CX700v versus f3.3 on the Hx9v.

Similarly, the G10 has even bigger pixels and a wide-aperture lens.

Gotcha mark

Dvinfo people assumed they were the same. I think on the 100 the lens only goes to like f2.8 so should be better than the hx9v. the 700 is what, 1.7?

But for 1/3 the cost, I'll give up the lowlight. The 30x optical zeiss zoom is nuts though
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post #48 of 419
5/21/11 at 9:09am
Thread Starter 
Correct: Hx9v f3.3, Hx100v, f2.8.

The usual trade-off: with the Hx9v you get compactness, with the Hx100v, much longer zoom and slightly larger aperture.

Both are amazing bargains as camcorders shooting 108060p!
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post #49 of 419
5/21/11 at 9:14am
Did you get the HX100v for $400 rather than $450?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+C...100v&cp=1&lp=1
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post #50 of 419
5/21/11 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Correct: Hx9v f3.3, Hx100v, f2.8.

The usual trade-off: with the Hx9v you get compactness, with the Hx100v, much longer zoom and slightly larger aperture.

Both are amazing bargains as camcorders shooting 108060p!

Agreed. I had the cx700 for about 4 days, returned it as it was defective bit I was underwhelmed and felt it was a big step down in quality from the cx550.
The fact that you can get such quality from these little cams means either they are very underpriced or the 700 is very overpriced
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post #51 of 419
5/21/11 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Did you get the HX100v for $400 rather than $450?
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+C...100v&cp=1&lp=1

Yep. That's why I waited because I had the price locked in
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post #52 of 419
5/21/11 at 9:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

When we first got our HX9V, I did test it in low light and it's not as good as the new Canon G10/XA10, but it's a Sony, so it's not bad at all.

Ken, I believe your wife has one and brought it with her to Italy, and I wonder whether you watched the videos she took (provided she did) and compared to yours with G10? What about sharpness?
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post #53 of 419
5/21/11 at 9:56am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc6uB9MUSFc&sns=em


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIrDPaaTHPQ&sns=em
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post #54 of 419
5/21/11 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

And that's what the CCD advocates always tend to leave out...CCD overloading (as well as other issues). To be that's uglier than some jello in the corners.

You cannot be serious saying that a light streak is uglier than jello. But I am not going to argue. The HX9V indeed has much less jello that some other cameras. I hope that global shutter with CMOS is possible and we will see it in consumer/prosumer products soon. If not, then CMOS will never become a clear improvement of CCD, it will remain a side step at best.
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post #55 of 419
5/21/11 at 10:21am
Thread Starter 
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=Pc6uB9MUSFc

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=UIrDPaaTHPQ

These links do not show anything of interest - something's wrong. Here is what I get for both links:
LL
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post #56 of 419
5/21/11 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
Somebody downloaded the Hx9v original video from Vimeo and then processed it to show in slow motion, posting an excerpt to Youtube:

http://youtu.be/mkG1HkImFwI?hd=1

This is another advantage of the 108060p (progressive) setting.
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post #57 of 419
5/21/11 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=Pc6uB9MUSFc

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...?v=UIrDPaaTHPQ

These links do not show anything of interest - something's wrong. Here is what I get for both links:

Whoops. Stupid iPhone. Linked mobile version by accident. Fixed now
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post #58 of 419
5/21/11 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Somebody downloaded the Hx9v original video from Vimeo and then processed it to show in slow motion, posting an excerpt to Youtube:

http://youtu.be/mkG1HkImFwI?hd=1

This is another advantage of the 108060p (progressive) setting.

That would be even smoother if the shutter speed hadn't been so fast due to the amount of light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fuLnXGJkLU&sns=em
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post #59 of 419
5/21/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Somebody downloaded the Hx9v original video from Vimeo and then processed it to show in slow motion, posting an excerpt to Youtube:

http://youtu.be/mkG1HkImFwI?hd=1

This is another advantage of the 108060p (progressive) setting.

You can do exactly the same with interlaced footage.
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post #60 of 419
5/21/11 at 11:39am
Thread Starter 
Yes, it just won't look as good.
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