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Any Interest in Cheap "Flat Pack" Enclosures? - Page 3

post #61 of 777
I think if someone could come up with a high spl design from 12hz-80hz in a slim package(it would be very tall like the dts-10) using dual 12's or even 8's it would be popular. If cheap enough many could do multiples or even 4. Match that with a e-wave pack and people could get serious HT for little money.
post #62 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I think if someone could come up with a high spl design from 12hz-80hz in a slim package(it would be very tall like the dts-10) using dual 12's or even 8's it would be popular. If cheap enough many could do multiples or even 4. Match that with a e-wave pack and people could get serious HT for little money.

Exactly! That is what I have been saying.
post #63 of 777
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Exactly! That is what I have been saying.

Hey, where did you say that at!

Keep in mind, it's only been a few days, and those were the original plans here. You just have to give it a little time sir.

Point me in the direction of the proper sized speaker cabinet for the waveguide builds.


DS-21, I agree with you about the SEOS cabinet with the big roundovers. I'll see what the guy says.




Important question: Does the Anarchy and Tang Band have the same screw spacing for mounting to the baffle? I asked someone in a PM that I thought had both, but they just told me to buy them and figure it out. So yeh, I'm still looking for answers on that. Maybe lilmike will know.
post #64 of 777
Pm sent Erich. I have a total of 4 large TH cabs that I want to build in the spring. A pair of 2 different designs that are both basically finished. I am in Louisville KY for pickup of the wood at the shop . Neither design would probably be practical for most other people unfortunately.
post #65 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I agree, it really won't be any different.
When you buy plans you can build it yourself, or have someone build it for you. This would amount to the same thing, buy the plans from me, get the kit from you. My authorized builders pay a franchise fee, and that allows them to build and sell cabs to the public without the buyer having to buy plans.
post #66 of 777
I'd be in for 2 of the Exodus 6.5 TH. Thanks Erich i've been interested in hearing more about this since you first mentioned it way back in lilmikes thread.
post #67 of 777
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post
When you buy plans you can build it yourself, or have someone build it for you. This would amount to the same thing, buy the plans from me, get the kit from you. My authorized builders pay a franchise fee, and that allows them to build and sell cabs to the public without the buyer having to buy plans.

I can fully understand that. So other than signing the non-compete or non-disclosure forms, what else would have to be done so that a person can buy your plans, then buy this flat pack kit?

I don't really want to be a "builder" for the kits or offer them up to just anyone. I was only trying to help people get it done easier once they had your plans. There were no plans to mark the kits up to cover a franchise fee, BUT, if that happens, maybe you could PM me what that would be and I can add it to the CNC guys cost.

I can try to get a rough estimate on price using Baltic birch and regular birch plywood and we'll see how it goes. I thought I read two 4x8 sheets? Could you tell me how many sheets would be needed per THT or for the new taller model? I'm sure that's all the CNC guy needs to get a fairly rough estimate.
post #68 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I can fully understand that. So other than signing the non-compete or non-disclosure forms, what else would have to be done so that a person can buy your plans, then buy this flat pack kit?

Plan owners can contract with anyone to build them a cab, or supply them with the necessary parts to build one.
post #69 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Designs? Don't clone something, you'll just clone it's problems too...

Seriously - give me something to work with...

What do you want?

10" driver?
12" driver?

1 or 2 drivers?

Target response?

Cabinet volume?

Let me know what there is interest in....

The Shiva TH.
post #70 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I can try to get a rough estimate on price using Baltic birch and regular birch plywood and we'll see how it goes. I thought I read two 4x8 sheets? Could you tell me how many sheets would be needed per THT or for the new taller model? I'm sure that's all the CNC guy needs to get a fairly rough estimate.

That was a typo on my part, it's actually three 4x8 sheets for the LP THT (the tall one).
post #71 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosifee View Post

The Shiva TH.

Working on it - honest.....

Issue is folding it into the space I have.

Square cross sections are a challenge.
post #72 of 777
Thread Starter 
I met the guy today at his shop. Pretty impressive set up to make just about anything.

He has a beast of a CNC machine. Looked like at least 15' x 12' with multiple tools and bits ready to go at the tough of a button.

He's going to get me 2 "prototype" flat packs made up so that I can test the assembly.

Time line:

1-2 weeks for the prototype. But he said it should be more like a week.

When I give the okay, he can get me a bunch within 1-2 weeks. But again, he said that could be closer to a week as well.


So I'm hoping for 2 weeks. Plus I need to order those heavy duty cardboard boxes.


There were some questions on this build:

#1: Do you want pilot holes drilled on the side panels to help hold the inner panels in place while the glue dries? That way, you put glue in the grooves, drop in your inner panel, then screw it in. Obviously this will leave screws showing on the outside.

#2. Do you want pilot holes on the outer perimeter of the outside panels?

#3. The Anarchy has 6 mounting holes. The Tang Band has 4. They don't match up. Do you want all 10 holes drilled, owner uses the correct holes, rubber mounting gasket covers unused holes to seal it up. Or do they just cut 1/16" deep to simply mark the 10 holes. Owner has to pick the correct marks and drill their own.

#4. Access panel. As with the original, there won't be one. You blow the driver, you need to cut your own access panel. I asked lilmike about this and the guy that did the initial build. Both agree. Do you?

#5. Terminals. Most seem to want to do this on their own because they want different ways to wire it up. I'm not sure I agree but that's what we'll do. If anyone can't cut the holes, I guess I can help out. Good or not?



He's going to carve numbers on the backs of each panel. He wants to put rabbet joints on all outer corners and dado the edges so it all locks together.

His original quote didn't include pilot holes, but I'm not sure that will change the price at all. I doubt it. It also didn't include carving the numbers into the panels. If that causes the price to go up, then we'll pass on that "luxury" I would think.



This guy is a custom cabinet builder, so he knows how to make everything lock together properly. He wants to leave a little "slop" in the inner grooves so that the parts don't have to be tapped in. He was talking about 1/32". If 1/32" is "sloppy", these should be pretty accurate!
post #73 of 777
Thread Starter 
Of course there won't be as many questions on the next project because he'll know how people want to put all their designs together.

Pilot holes that show screws on the outside was the main thing for this build.
post #74 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I
There were some questions on this build:

#1: Do you want pilot holes drilled on the side panels to help hold the inner panels in place while the glue dries? That way, you put glue in the grooves, drop in your inner panel, then screw it in. Obviously this will leave screws showing on the outside.

#2. Do you want pilot holes on the outer perimeter of the outside panels?

#3. The Anarchy has 6 mounting holes. The Tang Band has 4. They don't match up. Do you want all 10 holes drilled, owner uses the correct holes, rubber mounting gasket covers unused holes to seal it up. Or do they just cut 1/16" deep to simply mark the 10 holes. Owner has to pick the correct marks and drill their own.

#4. Access panel. As with the original, there won't be one. You blow the driver, you need to cut your own access panel. I asked lilmike about this and the guy that did the initial build. Both agree. Do you?

#5. Terminals. Most seem to want to do this on their own because they want different ways to wire it up. I'm not sure I agree but that's what we'll do. If anyone can't cut the holes, I guess I can help out. Good or not?

#1: Yes

#2: Would be OK but not sure if necessary, definitely not necessary if it increases the price.

#3: Just cut 1/16" deep to simply mark the 10 holes. Owner has to pick correct marks and drill their own.

#4: No access panel works for me.

#5: I figure anyone that can assemble this kit should have the skills to install there own terminals. This give the option to install binding posts, terminal cups or speakons in whatever location works best for the user.
post #75 of 777
I can go along with mj's answers as well.
post #76 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

#1: Yes

#2: Would be OK but not sure if necessary, definitely not necessary if it increases the price.

#3: Just cut 1/16" deep to simply mark the 10 holes. Owner has to pick correct marks and drill their own.

#4: No access panel works for me.

#5: I figure anyone that can assemble this kit should have the skills to install there own terminals. This give the option to install binding posts, terminal cups or speakons in whatever location works best for the user.

This sounds perfect to me. Even with my temporary disability (broken wrist/cast) should be no problem to make a cutout for the terminal.
post #77 of 777
Wow, sounds like you found a great builder!!

As for the questions:

#1 - I don't think pre-drilled holes on the side panels are necessary. Since the grooves are already going to be carved in there, if someone wants to use screws then they'll just to drill a small hole every 4-6" inside the grooves. I was planning on using a brad nailer to hold the panels in place while it dries, but some will probably want to use screws. And if someone is taking on the task of assembling one of these, then they should be able to drill a few pilot holes for the screws. Also, no pre-drilled holes should keep the cost down.

#2 - See #1. I don't think it's necessary, especially if he's doing rabbet joints on the edges.

#3 - For the Anarchy, I like the idea of putting the punch marks and then let people drill the holes as necessary. But on the THT-LP there are a few different drivers that can be used, so probably no pre-marked holes for that one. Just let each person decide what driver they're going to use and drill the holes accordingly.

#4 - Agree with the rest, no access panel necessary on the Anarchy. And the THTLP doesn't require one, as the bottom of the sub itself is the access panel.

#5 - Let each person decide what they want to do for terminals.

As for rabbet joints on the corners (edges), that would definitely be necessary if he's routing recessed grooves for the interior panels because otherwise the side panels would be too wide if you just butt-joined them together (unless he cut them narrower to compensated for the grooves). He'll just need to use a simple rabbet joint on the edges equal to the depth of the CNC grooves for the interior panels.

And I personally think making the CNC grooves to the exact thickness of the plywood would be ideal, rather than leaving some "slop". That way they the pieces can be tapped into place to ensure a perfect fit and alignment. If there's any slop/play in the grooves then it'll make things a little more difficult to get aligned correctly. Just my $.02, but then again I've never built a sub cabinet before.

And is he going to do CNC grooves on both side panels, or is he just going to do the one panel? I think it would be great if they were both grooved, but that would obviously add to the cost. BUT, if he's doing rabbet joints on both side panels then he'll need to do CNC grooves to match. Otherwise he can just do no rabbet joints or CNC grooves on the last panel.
post #78 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard711 View Post

And I personally think making the CNC grooves to the exact thickness of the plywood would be ideal, rather than leaving some "slop". That way they the pieces can be tapped into place to ensure a perfect fit and alignment. If there's any slop/play in the grooves then it'll make things a little more difficult to get aligned correctly. Just my $.02, but then again I've never built a sub cabinet before.

That's not what I'd want (I'm not getting this kit).

I assembled the DTS-10 kit, and even with fairly sloppy dados it was a bitch getting the final panel on.

I had to do it twice; I rounded over the edges of the male parts to help them get started, which I would highly recommend.

If you use something like PL adhesive, it will fill the slop.

Another issue is hydraulic lock - if the fit is too good, squeezing out excess adhesive could be really difficult.

The bond might set before that happens (if it even does), leaving bulges in the outer panels between the fasteners.

So why not kill two birds, oversize dados to ease assembly and allow squeezout, which will fill the gaps.
post #79 of 777
Along with the THT-LP, Anarchy TH, and lilmike's Shiva () I'd throw a vote for the vanilla 24" THT. I have the plans but haven't built, but personal motivation aside, that's a really popular configuration.
post #80 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by moosifee View Post

Along with the THT-LP, Anarchy TH, and lilmike's Shiva () I'd throw a vote for the vanilla 24" THT. I have the plans but haven't built, but personal motivation aside, that's a really popular configuration.

That is a popular design, but I think more people are going to have room for a THT LP than the original one due to the huge footprint.
post #81 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

That's not what I'd want (I'm not getting this kit).

I assembled the DTS-10 kit, and even with fairly sloppy dados it was a bitch getting the final panel on.

I had to do it twice; I rounded over the edges of the male parts to help them get started, which I would highly recommend.

If you use something like PL adhesive, it will fill the slop.

Another issue is hydraulic lock - if the fit is too good, squeezing out excess adhesive could be really difficult.

The bond might set before that happens (if it even does), leaving bulges in the outer panels between the fasteners.

So why not kill two birds, oversize dados to ease assembly and allow squeezout, which will fill the gaps.

That makes sense. Like I said, I've never built a sub cabinet before, just throwing out ideas!
post #82 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

#1: Yes

#2: Would be OK but not sure if necessary, definitely not necessary if it increases the price.

#3: Just cut 1/16" deep to simply mark the 10 holes. Owner has to pick correct marks and drill their own.

#4: No access panel works for me.

#5: I figure anyone that can assemble this kit should have the skills to install there own terminals. This give the option to install binding posts, terminal cups or speakons in whatever location works best for the user.


That also works for me
post #83 of 777
Yep, sounds good. I think one goal is to make it as inexpensive as possible. So, the less machine work involved the better.

The axillary screw holes (if desired) for assembly can easily be drilled from the inside out along the channels (if routed).

Everyone has their own idea or requirement for terminal placement, etc.
post #84 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Last week I met a guy in Northern Kentucky that offered to make up a bunch of flat pack (aka "knock down") speaker cabinets. His prices seem pretty good. I'd like to get some ideas on what you guys might be interested in. Sort of like a group buy kind of deal......without the need to buy first. Because the guy lives close enough, I could simply buy 10 of each design and store them myself. Once/if they sell, I'd just go pick up more when you guys needed them.

I was talking to Lilmike about his Anarchy 25hz tapped horn and he thinks it's a great idea to make a knock down kit for it. The pricing to use Baltic birch, cut all driver holes, cut grooves to line up inner panels, dado edges to fit panels together, pilot holes drilled where needed, holes for terminal plates, and of course all panels is coming in around $70, maybe a bit less.


I've asked the CNC guy about other projects and he said he'll do anything. So if you've got any ideas for different cabinets or baffles, please let me know and I'll get some prices.



Baltic plywood layered baffles?

Econowave cabinets cut for specific waveguides?

Subwoofer enclosures?



I thought the layered baffles might be a neat idea. He could cut the design with large roundovers and simply drill 2-3 pilot holes in each layer that could be lined up with wooden dowels. Stack to the height you needed for whatever subwoofer size you had.


Any other ideas? As long as there's some interest, I'll do it. I just need to know what you want.

If you do an Anarchy one I'd be more than willing to offer an "AVS Special" package for the TH builders. I'd suggest getting with Mike or Soho, GM etc.. ect... who have actually designed, built and measured some designs. I know lilmike's single design is solid... everyone seems to love it.
post #85 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Haskins View Post

If you do an Anarchy one I'd be more than willing to offer an "AVS Special" package for the TH builders. I'd suggest getting with Mike or Soho, GM etc.. ect... who have actually designed, built and measured some designs. I know lilmike's single design is solid... everyone seems to love it.

Sweet Kevin!

Did you have something in mind for a "special"?
post #86 of 777
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I assembled the DTS-10 kit, and even with fairly sloppy dados it was a bitch getting the final panel on.

I had to do it twice; I rounded over the edges of the male parts to help them get started, which I would highly recommend.

If you use something like PL adhesive, it will fill the slop.

Another issue is hydraulic lock - if the fit is too good, squeezing out excess adhesive could be really difficult.

The bond might set before that happens (if it even does), leaving bulges in the outer panels between the fasteners.

So why not kill two birds, oversize dados to ease assembly and allow squeezout, which will fill the gaps.

This is spot on having put together 2 dts10 kits.
post #87 of 777
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Haskins View Post

If you do an Anarchy one I'd be more than willing to offer an "AVS Special" package for the TH builders. I'd suggest getting with Mike or Soho, GM etc.. ect... who have actually designed, built and measured some designs. I know lilmike's single design is solid... everyone seems to love it.


Kevin, that's the main getting done right now. Hoping to have the prototype within a week. I was going to contact you by email, but I know you're very busy.

I'll email you later today.



I've got the correct cut out and screw spacing dimensions for the Tang Band, but I don't have that info for your driver yet.


Someone told me I could have the same diameter hole cut for both. Then I had someone tell me that might not work.
post #88 of 777
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

This is spot on having put together 2 dts10 kits.

So how much "slop" do you think will be needed? Should I ask for 1/16" extra on the groove widths?
post #89 of 777
If you're going to flat pack something, I would design the enclosure around an easily and widely available subwoofer that won't go out of stock every few months, for weeks or months at a time.
post #90 of 777
Thread Starter 
Alright, I've been able to set up a website to track all these group buys. It's been kind of hard to track the waveguide deal on multiple sites and then these flat packs here. So I thought this might be easier for everyone to follow.

I'm not very good at website design, but this should get us started. If you click the links, you'll notice that a LOT of them take you to the same place because I'm no where near done. As you can see, I'm helping out with a group buy on the Autotech waveguides as well. The person emails me what they want and I add their name to the list so they can verify. I felt that was needed because it's a unusual group buy coming from Poland and the pallet is going to be fairly expensive.


But I'm not sure that's needed with these flat packs because the guy doing the work is local. I can just tell him how many we need in groups of 20 or whatever. So there's no need to collect money up front for this group buy, well, I'm not doing that with the waveguide group buy either. Hopefully it's not too big of a deal. But hey, if you want your name up in lights, I can start a list like I did with the waveguide stuff!



I figured you guys might eventually want other stuff set up like this, so I added links for future items. I know lilmike is working on a few things that we can discuss later. I'll do my best to help out with those too.

Here's the link:

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/


All I've got done is the waveguide section and the subwoofer page is started. Looks like I went a little over board on the waveguide specs, that's how I like it.....gobs of info and graphs to bore the DIY community!


If anybody has ideas to make this website better for all of us, I'll try to get it done. Yeh, I'll change the colors eventually, you don't need to say it!
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