4k by 2k or Quad HD...lots of rumors? thoughts? - Page 68

[CEATEC 2012] Sharp ICC-LED 4K TV is what we have all been waiting for!

http://en.akihabaranews.com/119179/home-entertainment/ceatec-2012-sharp-icc-led-4k-tv-is-what-we-have-all-been-waiting-for

Which we are being told will be 4 years in the future.

Unknown. Just like the timeframe for implementing ATSC 3.0

Toshiba pushes 4K REGZA HDTVs at CEATEC 2012

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2012/10/toshiba-4k-regza-hdtvs/

Your question was "how are you going to get those camera feeds to consumers?". If you wanted to know "when", you should have asked that question instead...

And this benefits the owner of a 84" LG 4KTV how?

How and when go hand in hand.

They will be able to use it to view their "souvenir 4K recording" (assuming they have/rent the 4K player)

You ever see a "Souvenir HD recording" for any of the special venue shows that are put on in movie theaters today? There aren't any. Just like there won't be if they decided to move up to 4K. Movie theaters show movies and special venues. They don't sell such to consumers.

Well there was "8K" 2012 Olympics demos at special venues. This month there will be HD versions of it (welll longer than the demos) on Blu-ray on sale.

Also, he gave a new idea, one that might not have been done before with HD, you can't say for certain that no one will do that with 4K/8K.

The BBC has also broadcast shows in HD & 3D to special cinemas as well as in HD to viewers at home in 3D.
Edited by Joe Bloggs - 10/2/12 at 7:11pm

You're kidding right? ATSC (of any version) is a joke and everyone knows it. It will have absolutely zero impact on UHDTV.

Ron

Not the same is it? Nor could you buy that BD when leaving the NHK 8K demo

A new idea that will go over like a lead balloon. . . . theaters selling content to consumers. And yes, I can say for certain it will never happen because it hasn't in the past - ever. 4K/8K isn't going to change that policy.

Usining existing infrastructure. The idea is that with 4K, there is no infrastructure.

It's more or less the same thing. I think everything that was in the "8K" demos will be on the discs - except the resolution. It's the event (Olympics) not the SHV content they will be buying.

I think the problem with selling something at the event itself is you couldn't buy it and take it away at the event, because they'd probably need time to edit/encode it/write it to disc or other media.

Right - which has been done before, numerous times and always using the current consumer home video platforms. So by you saying "except the resolution" then it isn't the same.

Just another reason why it will never happen.

It's a "special event" shown at special venues which you specifically said
Now you've changed to say it has " has been done before, numerous times" - just that the consumer isn't getting the full resolution. I never said the consumer got the exact same resolution they get at the special event showing - just that they could buy it which you said they couldn't.

I said they couldn't buy it at the special event itself. And you agreed with me.

Why would theaters promote a 4K home video product?

While commercial theater owners obviously can't help but see the home theater market as serious competition, the people providing the content don't always seem to agree with that point of view. Musicians usually sell discs of their music at their live performances, for example. They certainly seem to do a brisk business at our local live theater venue during intermissions and after the shows.

I can imagine (although I don't know how realistic the idea is) that something similar might be done with 4K or 8K on-screen performances. It needn't be a recording of what was just experienced, although I can imagine that being a selling point. Getting a fraction of the "disc" sale price at-the-door seems to me to be better than getting none at all as is currently the case. (I put disc in quotes since at this point it's not at all obvious what the physical media might actually be.)

I brought up the possibility of high-resolution in-theater sporting events at lunch today. The sports fans didn't think it would be particularly attractive since alcoholic beverages wouldn't be allowed

How are you going to shoot something in UltraHD then author it (melding video with sound) compress it and replicate it 200X right on the spot? And do it in less than 15 seconds per copy.

Your friends were incorrect. There have been a number of sports venues shown in digital theaters like boxing matches and basketball games - all have been considered successful.

Back in the day, there was other options besides Directv and Dish Network to receive HDTV. One was BUD (Big Ugly Dish) C-Band. You won't see C-band, but the other options are KU and KA band. The people that buy a 4k TV will probably have this option available to them for Free To Air (FTA) broadcasting.
Actually, this is the format that SES used with ASTRA and the Sony demo. http://www.satellitetoday.com/via/features/Compression-Technology-In-the-Next-Generation-Broadcast-Environment_39299.html

Picture quality will be much better with a bigger dish, that is if you are allowed to have one in your neighborhood.

If it's being streamed, that same compressed signal could be used to write as many copies as the replication device(s) could handle simultaneously, with immediate availability after the showing. If too few copies were made, they could be available later -- either shipped to a home address or for pickup on-site. If it's not live, copies could be prepared ahead of time, with the same provisions if too few are on hand.

Doing the replication for an attractive price might be a challenge. It certainly seems like it would be technically feasible. Whether a workable business model could be developed is another matter.

And if it is being streamed using Motion JPEG2000?

The choice of streaming technology would have to be part of the business plan.

You will get no better picture quality when using a bigger dish. When weather gets severe signal will disappear sooner on a smaller dish(keep in mind that there are also high quality dishes out there who will outperform bigger low quality dishes) ,_ this and being able to receive more satellites is the only advantage of a bigger dish.

Wrong again! http://orbitsat.net/Support/HDTV.htm This is for C-Band. " What is the difference between C-Band High Definition and small dish High Definition?"

The source of small dish programming, with the exception of certain pay-per-view movie channels, is from C-Band TV originated signals. Small dish companies, like cable companies, capture the C-Band TV Master Broadcast Quality signal encode it, compress it, and rebroadcast it in a secondary format. All this signal manipulation naturally results in compromised picture quality. HD broadcasts will be handled in the same manner. To provide a premium movie channel on a small dish, the small dish programmer will capture it from the C-Band TV Master Broadcast Quality, encode, compress and rebroadcast the program."
I almost bought a C-Band dish back around 2001. I live in a house that has huge backyard, and I can put up that type dish. Motorola was making 4DTV boxes back then. C-band equipment cost was rather expensive, so most homes went with Directv or Dish network. I had both Directv and Dish network. Picture quality was fine, but lot of compression. I would probably go with KA band for UHDTV, but based on commercial company. The monthly costs for the encrypted channels actually is cheaper than Directv or Dish network.

The point of the previous post is that you don't have to wait for Directv. KA satellites are being launched now, not 4 years from now. So, you need to find the right satellite provider to get you UHDTV, and here is a list of the satellites. http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/ka.html

That doesn't tell us when any UHDTV broadcasts will begin. Plus, aren't you going to need some kind of a UHDTV SAT STB to go with your BUD?

''wrong again!''? Was not the ''who owns the blu-ray patents'' issue, was it

In general you will not get a better PQ when you use a bigger dish, that is what my post was about.

Actually, the link tells you what is available in your area. For example, 8mile13 is in Europe, if I recall correctly. SES has Europe covered with satellites, but he have to do some research on what satellites are available to him. USA is not as well covered as Europe. Although,
this Galaxy 13 is very interesting. http://www.lyngsat.com/tvchannels/us/3net.html This satellite has 3net, which is owned by Imax, Discovery and Sony. "Launched on February 13, 2011, 3net, the joint venture of Sony Corporation, Discovery Communications and IMAX Corporation brings together three of the world's leading media, technology and entertainment companies to provide the nation's first and only fully programmed, 24/7 3D network. The three partners deliver an extraordinary collection of award-winning 3D content, technology and production expertise, television distribution and operational strength to the project, with a mission to bring viewers the highest quality and most immersive in-home 3D viewing experience possible. The channel features the most extensive library of 3D content in the world, featuring genres that are most appealing in 3D, including natural history, documentary, action/adventure, travel, history, kids and family, lifestyle and cuisine, concerts, movies, scripted series and more. "

Well, Sony already said that they will be delivery 4k to the home, so I say that this network would be one of the candidates for UHDTV. http://www.lyngsat.com/tvchannels/us/3net.html This link also tells me on the system that satellite uses currently, so you need to talk with your satellite provider. They can set you up with the set top box. You can receiver UHDTV 4k via h.264 compression... http://www.astrodesign.co.jp/english/news/news-20120508-1571.html That transmission was via KU band, but the industry seems to moving to KA band. Oh, Astro has a American location as well. http://astro-americas.com/ If you bought a dish setup now, you have to go with h.264, but by 2014 then h.265 set top boxes will be available.

Bluray patents is the original inventors. There is 4 different inventors and Sony wasn't among any of the inventors. Most companies do try to lay claim to the patent issue...depends on the country.

I seen C-Band and had excellent picture quality. I had Dish Network, Directv, AT&T Uverse, and Time Warner Cable. All of them have issues with the compression or artifacts in the picture. Directv was the best, but their customer service is horrible. Expect a day wait to get serviced, and that is if the show up at all. I had them to cancel after I waited all day for them. The people that drop 25K for a new TV will use a commercial satellite dish. Their home theaters are around 100K+, so they want best around. No fiber, then you have to do satellite.
My home theater installer has been installing 4k projectors since they were released. Actually, one of his customers went CES 2011, and he saw a 4k Flat panel. He wanted it for his home, regardless of the cost.
Edited by Nitro67 - 10/4/12 at 8:22pm

What has all this to do with 4K UHDTV? Absolutely nothing.

No it isn't. That's a 3D network. Has nothing to do with UHDTV. Sony says a lot of things and many of them don't pan out.

There is no one currently broadcasting in UHDTV via SAT. There is no one offerring any UHDTV SAT receiving equipment. THOSE are the facts of the current status of UHDTV via SAT.

IHS iSuppli: 4K TV Will See Small Marginal Share

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/hdtv/ihs-isuppli-4k-tv-will-see-small-marginal-share-28504

That is just one example, but a few of the other networks are HBO, Starz, Turner, etc. You need content to view 4k.
Here is the line up of 3D satellites. http://www.lyngsat.com/3d/index.html
Astra is owned by SES, Astra 3B was used for the demo. http://itersnews.com/?p=12259
Interesting networks on Astra 3B......

UHDTV is 3d at 4k and 8k resolution. Imax has large library of videos at 4k, and so does Sony. and Discovery. Galaxy 13 satellite is KU, but if Sony uses 50 Mb/sec. Then I say it could be capable of 4k. There is huge investment to start broadcasting in 4k.
No references to back up your claims.