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4k by 2k or Quad HD...lots of rumors? thoughts? - Page 76

post #2251 of 3670
4K Ultra HD delivery solution, complete with pre-loaded, native 4K entertainment, available exclusively to purchasers of Sony’s 84” 4K Ultra HD TV.
Quote:
In the next couple of weeks, the XBR-84X900 television will ship to customers who placed pre-orders since the product introduction in September. As an extra bonus, included free with the purchase will be the world’s first 4K Ultra HD delivery solution, complete with pre-loaded, native 4K entertainment. Not some goofy 4K content shot as a demo. I’m talking full length feature Hollywood productions, and available exclusively to purchasers of Sony’s 84” 4K Ultra HD TV.

"Worlds first?" cool.gif
REDRAY™ 11-30-12.
post #2252 of 3670
^Yeah, first. But always remember the Ultra HD is intermittent technology for the full Octo HD. Within the next 12-24 months Octo HD sets should be announced leaving Ultra HD in the dust.
post #2253 of 3670
Fujifilm will introduce 1TB optical disc in 2015
November 18, 2012
Quote:
Fujifilm is working on a new recording method for optical discs. It has developed the new method through the use of two-photon absorption in order to generate heat, and that this two-photon method is suited for multilayer discs. As the reaction caused by two-photon absorption can be limited to the small area of the focal point of a laser light, it is possible to increase the number of recording layers.

According to Fujifilm, the procedure can bring about a recording density of 25 Gbytes per layer, the equivalent to the recording density of a Blu-ray Disc (BD), in addition to 20 layers per side of a disc.

A double-sided optical disc with a 1TB storage capacity is possible. Fujifilm foresees bringing a 1TB optical disc to market in 2015.

Fujifilm simplified the manufacturing process by using "web coating" to form the recording, ultraviolet curable resin and adhesive material layers and sticking them together.

With BD, spin coating and sputtering are needed for each layer.
"It takes 147 seconds to form a four-layer BD,"
the company said.
"With our method, it takes only 58 seconds to form eight layers."

Overall, Fujifilm said that the new disc's manufacture will be cheaper than BD discs currently available.

The two-photon absorption disc has a cost as low as that of a magnetic tape. A company spokesperson said that, "We will continue the development of the disc with help from drive makers."

Edited by coolscan - 11/20/12 at 4:58am
post #2254 of 3670

Very interesting development. Could 4K blu-ray be already to go? The fact they are saying pre-loaded and delivery system makes me believe it is some sort of temporary flash/hard drive instead of the expected 4K blu-ray player due to be out 2nd quarter 2013. Rumors are that Sony, LG and Toshiba have agreed on a format, so let's hope there is not another format war. I would bet the content is going to be The Amazing Spider-Man.
post #2255 of 3670
Just got an E-mail from LG.In the E-mail is some info about thr 84 inch set. I found the disclaimer interesting,


[DISCLAIMER]* No "ultra high definition" or "4K" video content is currently available. No broadcast or other standard currently exists for "4K" or "ultra high definition" television and the 84LM9800 may not be compatible with such standards if and when developed.
post #2256 of 3670
what source were you watching?
post #2257 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Fujifilm will introduce 1TB optical disc in 2015
November 18, 2012

Coolscan, the technology has existed for more layers since 2006. This line is rather interesting... "We will continue the development of the disc with help from drive makers."

That last line means that the drive will never exist. In 2009, GE had 1TB disc based on the current BD technology, so you wouldn't have to replace your Bluray drives. GE couldn't get any company to develop the drives.
post #2258 of 3670
post #2259 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro67 View Post

Sounds like the cloud. Preloaded?
I think it sounds more like a memory format (eg. memory stick/card) or hard disc like what sytech suggested.

If it was in the cloud, it wouldn't really be 'pre-loaded', you'd have access to it but it wouldn't be loaded onto the device really.
post #2260 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

I think it sounds more like a memory format (eg. memory stick/card) or hard disc like what sytech suggested.
If it was in the cloud, it wouldn't really be 'pre-loaded', you'd have access to it but it wouldn't be loaded onto the device really.

"Pre-loaded" sounds like software. Just like Pre-loaded windows. You don't have access to Netflix streaming until you sign up account, but it could be a pre-loaed software like Netflix, Hulu Plus, Amazon prime, but Sony's own version. You need the software to access the cloud, so that is "pre-loaded". 3net is going to be producing 4k, which Sony owns. Then Sony bought Gaikai cloud gaming service for $380 million. Why do this when you own PS3?

Hmmm.... http://news.doddleme.com/equipment/sony-to-go-head-to-head-in-red-for-4k-streaming/
Edited by Nitro67 - 11/21/12 at 9:51pm
post #2261 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockaway1836 View Post

Just got an E-mail from LG.In the E-mail is some info about thr 84 inch set. I found the disclaimer interesting,
[DISCLAIMER]* No "ultra high definition" or "4K" video content is currently available. No broadcast or other standard currently exists for "4K" or "ultra high definition" television and the 84LM9800 may not be compatible with such standards if and when developed.

This is why it makes no sense to buy anything 4K right now. When the specifications are finally set all current products are going to be outdated.
post #2262 of 3670
Are you suggesting the input won't be 4K compatible?

The TV itself will likely not support any broadcast standard, but that's irrelevant. You just need a 4K input for 99.99% of the world's uses.
post #2263 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Are you suggesting the input won't be 4K compatible?
The TV itself will likely not support any broadcast standard, but that's irrelevant. You just need a 4K input for 99.99% of the world's uses.

I just wrote this in another thread, but as far as i understand, the current version of HDMI (1.4) supports 4k only at 24p, meaning that no 3d will be available, but also no 60p input at 4k, so gaming, sports, etc will look choppy and not smooth.
post #2264 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 View Post


I just wrote this in another thread, but as far as i understand, the current version of HDMI (1.4) supports 4k only at 24p, meaning that no 3d will be available, but also no 60p input at 4k, so gaming, sports, etc will look choppy and not smooth.


IIRC, Mark Haflich posted some while ago (in the Sony1000 thread) about Sony planning to offer an upgrade (for a cost) to 1000 owners that would do 4K at 60p.    Anybody know anything more about this?

post #2265 of 3670
Smart to wait a little before one buys a 4K projector (or TV). I've heard there is some DLP 4K coming, but one was said to be "wobulated 4K" and terrible. Maybe there are some more DLP's?
And then it is the RED laser projector with inbuilt RedRay player, slightly delayed. Hopefully ready before the summer.
post #2266 of 3670
post #2267 of 3670
Sony's temporary 4K solution.

"The new 4K Ultra HD Video Player is a hard-disc server"

At least we can maybe see the size and format they might be using for 4K blu-ray.

http://gizmodo.com/5964260/that-massively-expensive-4k-sony-tv-now-comes-with-10-minorly-interesting-4k-movies

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sonys-first-collection-of-4k-ultra-hd-content-for-the-home-now-available-for-consumers-181358331.html
post #2268 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Just the usual hyperbole wherever Sony is involved.
Many European TV stations have already shot drama series with a 4K finish. Some of these will air before Christmas, but in HD of course.
I don't know if Space will be the first 4K TV series but I have not yet heard of any European TV series that were both recorded and finished at 4K.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

^Yeah, first. But always remember the Ultra HD is intermittent technology for the full Octo HD. Within the next 12-24 months Octo HD sets should be announced leaving Ultra HD in the dust.
irkurk, why you are trying so hard to convince people that 4K TVs will fail? In this thread alone you have made over a hundred posts trying to convince people of that. Also you argue that people won't see the resolution benefit of 4K TVs but you also argue that 8K TVs will kill off the market for 4K TVs. Which one is it?

In my opinion there is a huge size range of 60" to 120" where 4K TVs can make sense for 2D TVs (and even smaller 4K TVs can make sense for autostereoscopic/passive 3D TVs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

This is why it makes no sense to buy anything 4K right now. When the specifications are finally set all current products are going to be outdated.
Were 720p/1080i HDTVs outdated once 1080p HDTVs were released? Sure, but people who owned 720p/1080i HDTVs were still able to use them. The same will be true with 4K TVs even after the release of 4K TVs that support higher frame rates, 10-bit video, and the UHDTV color space. Of course I understand why many would prefer to wait for the 4K TVs that have those features but I do think that 4K resolution alone could benefit some people now.
post #2269 of 3670
The BDA has announced the creation of a task force to extend the Blu-ray Disc format. The task force will be called the "format extension study task force". Here is a quote from the BDA spokesman Andy Parsons:
Quote:
Q: With 4k getting more attention, does the BDA have plans to introduce 4k to the space and is it possible to have 4k, 3D?

Andy Parsons: The BDA recently decided to form a new task force to study just this sort of possibility. It's called the format extension study task force, and it will do exactly what its name suggests: to study new technologies such as 4K, high frame rate, color enhancements, etc. Each technology that will be studied needs to be evaluated to determine technical feasibility, market demand, and potential impact on the installed base of Blu-ray players already in the marketplace, projected to be in excess of 50 million in the U.S. alone by the end of 2012.

Edited by Richard Paul - 11/29/12 at 8:29pm
post #2270 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

irkurk, why you are trying so hard to convince people that 4K TVs will fail? In this thread alone you have made over a hundred posts trying to convince people of that. Also you argue that people won't see the resolution benefit of 4K TVs but you also argue that 8K TVs will kill off the market for 4K TVs. Which one is it?
In my opinion there is a huge size range of 60" to 120" where 4K TVs can make sense for 2D TVs (and even smaller 4K TVs can make sense for autostereoscopic/passive 3D TVs).
Were 720p/1080i HDTVs outdated once 1080p HDTVs were released? Sure, but people who owned 720p/1080i HDTVs were still able to use them. The same will be true with 4K TVs even after the release of 4K TVs that support higher frame rates, 10-bit video, and the UHDTV color space. Of course I understand why many would prefer to wait for the 4K TVs that have those features but I do think that 4K resolution alone could benefit some people now.

I am based on two facts:

- Japanese are going to skip the 4K entirely and jump on the OctoHD directly
- Pixel number/density became no-problem

This is thus not the case of 720p vs. 1080p repeating. At those times making 1080p was huge problem and costly, 720p was the only economic choice. Now retina displays are everywhere and can be made with no problems if not cheaply.This creates situation in which 8K displays may appear any time (at first in Japan) making 4K old fashioned just when barely being born. Regarding the frame rate, 10-bit, etc I agree but unfortunately this will not come with the 4K since they want to cut corners to dump 4K on people.
post #2271 of 3670
Quote:
Regarding the frame rate, 10-bit, etc I agree but unfortunately this will not come with the 4K since they want to cut corners to dump 4K on people.
I think if they increase the colour res for Blu-ray, they'll allow that increased colour res to be used for "4K" (ie. 3840x2160).
post #2272 of 3670
Chinese brand Skyworth are also into the 4K/UHD TV marked. Here is a badly translated article from their launch of UHD TV's in August posted on Skyworth's web site. http://www.skyworth.com/en/news-detail-2954.html

MSRP for their UHD TV's:
84" model# Skyworth E99UD ~ CNY - Chinese Yuan Renminbi 99999 = $16,052.58 ($4K under msrp for the LG 84" UHD TV)
65" model# Skyworth E810U ~ CNY - Chinese Yuan Renminbi 39999 model# = $6,420.87
50" model# Skyworth E780U ~ CNY - Chinese Yuan Renminbi 10999 model# = $1,765.59

Looking at Taobao for "street prices" to get a impression of actual prices in China, they have a rather large variety.

84" model# Skyworth E99UD ~ CNY - 99600.00 - 89999.00 = 15,990.17 USD - 14,449.30 USD
65" model# Skyworth E810U ~ CNY - 36999.00 - 31988.00 = 5,939.424 USD - 5,135.012 USD
50" model# Skyworth E780U ~ CNY - 9499.00 - 8498.00 = 1,364.30 USD - 1,525.01 USD
That's around $1500 in launch price for one of the first 50" UHD TV, which is promising. wink.gif

Impossible to say if these models are available and if one could get them to such prices, but it gives an indication of future price levels for 4K/UHD TV's, even if these prices are not directly translatable to US/EU prices.
I guess Japanese and Korean TV manufacturers will have a fierce competition from the Chinese.
Are 4K/UHD TV's the marked where the Chinese are going to try to enter the International TV marked big time, and try to "knock out" the Japanese and Koreans competition in their usual way of "big scale underpricing"? cool.gif
post #2273 of 3670
There is no actual manufacturing cost delta of any meaning to do 4K. It's really in the single-digit dollars, perhaps the low double-digit dollars. I suspect that we'll see 4K pricing fairly rapidly do what you see on the low end there with the Skyworth pricing, which is to say, rapidly approximate pricing of 2K models. The high end sets are so pricey because sizes that big can be right now. But I doubt that will persist for very long.
post #2274 of 3670
Official confirmation that 4K movies will come on Blu-ray soon. Hope they use the read-only quadruple-layer 128 GB BDXL format, but one of HEVC goals was to fit a 4K movie on a standard dual layer 50 GB BD. Unless it is a manufacturing issue, I really do not see the point. They are incompatible with 1080p anyway, so why compress them onto the 50GB discs. Once someone gets their hands on one of Sony's temporary 4K servers, we can maybe see what format and file size they are using.


http://www.avsforum.com/a/sony-launches-4k-ultra-hd-flat-panel-avs-coverage-at-the-event

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/approved-bdxl-128-gb-blu-ray-disc-format/
post #2275 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

I am based on two facts:
- Japanese are going to skip the 4K entirely and jump on the OctoHD directly
- Pixel number/density became no-problem.

This is a crock. First of all, there's no current delivery medium for 4K, let alone 8K. Second, there isn't any material in 8K and no apparently plan to create it. Motion pictures are now being shot in 4K or 5K, and film is being scanned at 4K.

In fact, we don't even have a decent delivery medium for HD, and bitrates and quality are getting WORSE, not better, as people cheerlead for shìtty streaming delivery and the death of physical media. Even if we all had fiber to the curb, data caps would make streaming 4K a totally impractical proposition, let alone 8K.

Unless, of course, you're talking about 8K at 10 Mbps. And make no mistake: Someone will try it. Just wait for the flood of fraudulent 4K at that rate.

Think things through.
post #2276 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Official confirmation that 4K movies will come on Blu-ray soon. Hope they use the read-only quadruple-layer 128 GB BDXL format, but one of HEVC goals was to fit a 4K movie on a standard dual layer 50 GB BD. Unless it is a manufacturing issue, I really do not see the point. They are incompatible with 1080p anyway, so why compress them onto the 50GB discs. Once someone gets their hands on one of Sony's temporary 4K servers, we can maybe see what format and file size they are using.
http://www.avsforum.com/a/sony-launches-4k-ultra-hd-flat-panel-avs-coverage-at-the-event
http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/approved-bdxl-128-gb-blu-ray-disc-format/


OK, now who will have the first BDXL player--Sony, I presume?   How long before Oppo has one?

post #2277 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


OK, now who will have the first BDXL player--Sony, I presume?   How long before Oppo has one?

BDXL has been out for at least a few years now. They use it in Japan much more than over here. It can read three-layer 100GB rewritable BD or write once 128GB. If they can stamp dual layer 50GB disc, I would think they could stamp quad layers 128Gb as well. In large quantities BDXL drives should cost maybe $20-30 dollars more, so they may just use the current BD-ROM drives, just at a higher speed and put the movies on standard dual layer 50GB discs using h.265 codec. We should know Sony's final plans at CES in January, but if anyone can get their hands on one of those Sony 4K media servers, we may be able to tell by file size and format.
post #2278 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post


BDXL has been out for at least a few years now. They use it in Japan much more than over here. It can read three-layer 100GB rewritable BD or write once 128GB. If they can stamp dual layer 50GB disc, I would think they could stamp quad layers 128Gb as well. In large quantities BDXL drives should cost maybe $20-30 dollars more, so they may just use the current BD-ROM drives, just at a higher speed and put the movies on standard dual layer 50GB discs using h.265 codec. We should know Sony's final plans at CES in January, but if anyone can get their hands on one of those Sony 4K media servers, we may be able to tell by file size and format.


Thanks for your expertise!    Sounds encouraging, that we might have this capability soon and at reasonably price.

post #2279 of 3670

The Sharp is priced at $5500, but it primary be sold to the computer industry. Which help drop the costs even more in a few years. http://www.techspot.com/news/50935-sharp-unveils-4k-32-inch-igzo-lcd-monitor-yours-for-just-5500.html
post #2280 of 3670
RedRay 4K player + ODEMAX content distribution and delivery system............................
http://www.red.com/products/redray

Price: $1450 for player.

ODEMAX.COM Distribution Platform for REDRAY
More details for Odemax will be announced at Sundance in January.
Quote:
ODEMAX delivers the only comprehensive distribution platform for 4K movies.

Designed to exclusively support the REDRAY Player and REDRAY Projection systems from RED Digital Cinema, ODEMAX.COM is an all-inclusive environment for home and theatrical delivery of feature films, with built-in digital rights management, sales, marketing and analytics tools.
ODEMAX provides filmmakers, production companies and independent distributors, direct channel access to the new cloud enabled REDRAY 4K home players.

(click on pictures for better view)



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