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4k by 2k or Quad HD...lots of rumors? thoughts? - Page 77

post #2281 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Goldman View Post

This is a crock. First of all, there's no current delivery medium for 4K, let alone 8K. Second, there isn't any material in 8K and no apparently plan to create it. Motion pictures are now being shot in 4K or 5K, and film is being scanned at 4K.
In fact, we don't even have a decent delivery medium for HD, and bitrates and quality are getting WORSE, not better, as people cheerlead for shìtty streaming delivery and the death of physical media. Even if we all had fiber to the curb, data caps would make streaming 4K a totally impractical proposition, let alone 8K.
Unless, of course, you're talking about 8K at 10 Mbps. And make no mistake: Someone will try it. Just wait for the flood of fraudulent 4K at that rate.
Think things through.

Your points are valid but they do not disprove OctoHD. If the Japanese decided to skip the 4K entirely it means they are furiously working now on full technology chain. No 8K content? Look what Sony offers with its 84"@4K. No 8K cameras? This is good reason to produce ones trying to get over REDs.
post #2282 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar Goldman View Post

Second, there isn't any material in 8K and no apparently plan to create it..
Japan have TV cameras that record in "8K" (7680x4320 - not full 8K). That will be their "8K" material - the TV shows they produce with those cameras. The Olympics demos and other things 'broadcast' in 7680x4320 were "8K" content.
It will probably be around 2020 when they'll be broadcasting to consumers' homes in it.
Edited by Joe Bloggs - 12/1/12 at 2:07pm
post #2283 of 3670

With screens the size in home theaters--e.g., up to 12' wide or so--I can indeed see the benefit that 4K will provide, even though for many 1080p (2K) is quite sufficient.   However I cannot see how 8K will provide a perceptible difference for such screen sizes.    For much larger screens, of course, it's another story.

post #2284 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

BDXL has been out for at least a few years now. They use it in Japan much more than over here. It can read three-layer 100GB rewritable BD or write once 128GB. If they can stamp dual layer 50GB disc, I would think they could stamp quad layers 128Gb as well. In large quantities BDXL drives should cost maybe $20-30 dollars more, so they may just use the current BD-ROM drives, just at a higher speed and put the movies on standard dual layer 50GB discs using h.265 codec. We should know Sony's final plans at CES in January, but if anyone can get their hands on one of those Sony 4K media servers, we may be able to tell by file size and format.

BDXL was only intended to backup data. I own a BDXL recorder now! The media cost too much to burn to BDXL format, it barely has dropped in price. BDROM process is not a stamping process. I wish people would know a little manufacturing processes, before they post. I posted on the BDROM process in the past, but the recording layer is burnt with a laser. Stamping process are used in the metal industry. For example. your pop top cans is a stamping process. When I was in Tool&Die back in the late 1980's, I got to take tour of the company that has the patent on the tooling to make a pop top can. Actually, a friend of mine worked at at that company. I worked primary in the Automotive industry, but I did work briefly in the plastic mold industry. I can definitely say that the BDROM recording layer can't be stamped on. A plastic injection mold needs to be polished to get the great finish on plastic. The video shows the technique, so at least you can understand the process.

Here is a video on how a plastic injection mold is made.


Here is panasonic process on how they build BDROM's.

http://panasonic.net/blu-ray/technology/branch/process/

Panasonic doesn't mention the recording layer at all. You can see the substrate layers are molded. The only way that the recorded layer of the BDROM could be made is by a laser. This would keep costs rather low, and then you could use the BDROM process to make the Bluray's that you buy in the stores now.
Costs to build a plastic injection mold in 1989 was $100K a mold. I would estimate that it might be $250K a mold now. (Can lower the labor cost, by shipping it overseas? Yes! Just that you lose quality)

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Sony's new media server is temporary solution, because I found the company that is going to develop the Holographic Disc technology for Sony & Hitachi. (Well, Hitachi has been working on it)

http://www.bcbr.com/article/20121126/NEWS/121129956
Quote:
Akonia using IP purchased from InPhase

By Beth Potter November 26, 2012

LONGMONT - Data-storage company Akonia Holographics LLC has moved into the office of the former InPhase Technologies Inc. at 2021 Miller Drive in Longmont.

The new holographic data-storage company launched in August with an $11 million investment from Acadia Woods Partners in New York. Akonia purchased intellectual property from the former InPhase, which Acadia bought in March, according to the company website.

InPhase filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in October 2011 to stave off an auction of assets to satisfy creditors. InPhase had an intellectual property portfolio of more than 200 U.S. and foreign patents and applications. Patent licensees included Hitachi Maxell Ltd., Bayer Material Science and Nichia Corp.

With the new changes comes a plan to partner with an industry leader such as Hitachi or Sony in the future, said Ken Anderson, Akonia's chief executive officer. InPhase was focused on creating a holographic data-storage device related to computer hard drives.

"We're looking to partner with optical data-storage companies. (Companies in) Japan are leaders in the DVD, Blu-Ray market," Anderson said.

Akonia currently has nine employees and may hire more in the coming months, Anderson said. Anderson founded the company with Mark Ayres, chief technology officer and Fred Askham, vice president of media development, according to a document filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.

http://akoniaholographics.com/

Ok, the paper that was briefed in Taiwan conference.

The Future of Holographic Storage: Rebirthing a Commercialization Effort Ken Anderson, Fred Askham, and Mark Ayres (Akonia Holographics, LCC, USA)

A new technology roadmap for Holographic Data Storage is presented and discussed that outlines a path to achieving upwards of 6TB capacities and over 300MB/s transfer rates.

Hitachi Data Systems has developed an improved recording method, so you see that it is in development right now! I like to see higher transfer rate, but Hitachi Data Systems seems to be on the right path.


>>>>>>>>> The news media finally catches up! I knew about the article, the day it was written. Here is the news media report. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/11/28/akona_holograohics/
The Author is bit out of touch! Holographic storage never died, because technology never dies.

It will take a new technology for 4k and 8K. I just don't see a future for Bluray, but according to Hitachi's patent that laser is same wavelength as Bluray.

Just that it will be a new player, so your current players won't work.
Edited by Nitro67 - 12/1/12 at 2:42pm
post #2285 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

I am based on two facts:
- Japanese are going to skip the 4K entirely and jump on the OctoHD directly
- Pixel number/density became no-problem
The only organization to announce support for 8K UHDTV has been the NHK, there is currently no consumer connection capable of 8K at 30 fps (and certainly not at 120 fps), the costs for 8K UHDTV will be much higher than the costs for 4K UHDTV, and for the average person (at an 8 foot viewing distance) a display size of at least 120" would be needed to benefit from 8K UHDTV.

Also if you believe that 8K UHDTVs will destroy the 4K UHDTV market does that mean you also believe that 8K computer monitors will destroy the 4K computer monitor market?

Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Regarding the frame rate, 10-bit, etc I agree but unfortunately this will not come with the 4K since they want to cut corners to dump 4K on people.
The recently announced REDRAY player supports 12-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr. Also HEVC has a consumer profile for 10-bit video so hopefully the 4K version of Blu-ray will support 10-bit video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Official confirmation that 4K movies will come on Blu-ray soon.
The BDA has announced a task force but it might take months for them to create a specification. Considering how long it usually takes to go from specification to consumer products it likely won't be until 2014 before 4K Blu-ray players get released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

RedRay 4K player + ODEMAX content distribution and delivery system............................
http://www.red.com/products/redray
Price: $1450 for player.
To give a short summary of the technical side of REDRAY it has a 1 TB internal hard drive and four HDMI 1.4 outputs. The player supports 4K video at up to 60 fps using the HDTV color space. The video can be either 8-bit RGB or 12-bit 4:2:2 YCbCr. The video codec is called "RED" and the player supports up to 7.1 channel 24-bit/48-kHz audio.

I don't think a proprietary video codec was needed but 20 Mbps should be sufficient for acceptable video quality if RED is at least equal to MPEG-4 AVC. In my opinion the main issue for REDRAY will be what kind of content support it will get from the major studios.
post #2286 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro67 View Post

BDXL was only intended to backup data. I own a BDXL recorder now! The media cost too much to burn to BDXL format, it barely has dropped in price. BDROM process is not a stamping process. I wish people would know a little manufacturing processes, before they post. I posted on the BDROM process in the past, but the recording layer is burnt with a laser. Stamping process are used in the metal industry. For example. your pop top cans is a stamping process. When I was in Tool&Die back in the late 1980's, I got to take tour of the company that has the patent on the tooling to make a pop top can. Actually, a friend of mine worked at at that company. I worked primary in the Automotive industry, but I did work briefly in the plastic mold industry. I can definitely say that the BDROM recording layer can't be stamped on. A plastic injection mold needs to be polished to get the great finish on plastic. The video shows the technique, so at least you can understand the process.
Here is a video on how a plastic injection mold is made.

Dual layered blu-rays are "stamped" not burned. Do some research next time.
post #2287 of 3670
Confirmation The Amazing Spiderman in 4K clocked in at 56.4GB. To big to fit on a standard dual layer 50GB BD-ROM. Also, future movies will be delivered to the 4K server by blu-ray. So unless they are putting it on more than one blu-ray they will have to use three or four layer discs. No word on the codec used, but Sony XAVC files are usually much larger and therefore it is likely they are using the proposed final draft of the HEVC h.265 codec.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/01/sony-xbr-4k-led-ultra-hdtv-hands-on/
post #2288 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Dual layered blu-rays are "stamped" not burned. Do some research next time.

Well, you have to polish the layers to do the stamp. I did research it, and the patent says the recording layer is burned!

http://proceedings.spiedigitallibrary.org/article.aspx?articleid=1323216
Quote:
A BD-ROM production-capable Electron Beam Recorder (EBR) has been developed, resulting from an optimization program conducted on a prior prototype. The key technical improvements are a comprehensive upgrade of the mechanical master driving system to reduce the track pitch deviations and the implementation of a dynamic focus system, including an axial run-out checker to obtain a uniform jitter. And the multi-pulse write strategy was adopted to control the pit shapes. The resulting masters show a typical radial track pitch variation comprised in the range ±6.6nm across the entire recorded area. The corresponding push-pull signal deviation is found to be less than 18% on the whole disc and less than 14% in one revolution. The signal jitter of dual layered BD-ROM disc less than 6.1% on layer 0, and less than 6.7% on layer 1 with large enough push-pull amplitude through the whole radius. These results are fully compliant with the requirements for the dual layered BD-ROM disc of 50GB capacity.


You need to do some adequate research next time.
post #2289 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Confirmation The Amazing Spiderman in 4K clocked in at 56.4GB. To big to fit on a standard dual layer 50GB BD-ROM. Also, future movies will be delivered to the 4K server by blu-ray. So unless they are putting it on more than one blu-ray they will have to use three or four layer discs. No word on the codec used, but Sony XAVC files are usually much larger and therefore it is likely they are using the proposed final draft of the HEVC h.265 codec.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/01/sony-xbr-4k-led-ultra-hdtv-hands-on/
Sony is almost certainly using MPEG-4 AVC. The Amazing Spiderman is a 136 minute movie so that would allow for an average AV bit rate of 55.3 Mbps. Also the HEVC standard isn't finished yet and mass produced HEVC hardware decoders will most likely not be seen in consumer products until 2014.
post #2290 of 3670
why spend $5500 for a 32" 4k display when you can get a 65" 4k tv right now for (CNY 39999) $6423.00 from skyworth or even a 50" 4k tv for $1500.00 "Fifteen Hundred" which is the tv I have.
I bought a high end pc I put together a few month's back and i'm going to run it off a gtx 680 on the web site it's running off of a gtx 660 so any 600 series can run it in 4k at 30hz max so it's perfectly fine for movies and some games. movies are recorded at 24 fps anyways so that's defendly not a problem and all I have to do is wait for someone I know to leak the 4k movies online from sony's 4k video server and I will have 10 4k movies and more when those come out in a few month's " here's the web site" http://tech.china.com.cn/elec/xppc/20121031/342.shtml
]there affordable right now but from china. I even have an onkyo 2013 video receiver that can upscale perfectly to 4k from any source.
post #2291 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Confirmation The Amazing Spiderman in 4K clocked in at 56.4GB. To big to fit on a standard dual layer 50GB BD-ROM. Also, future movies will be delivered to the 4K server by blu-ray. So unless they are putting it on more than one blu-ray they will have to use three or four layer discs. No word on the codec used, but Sony XAVC files are usually much larger and therefore it is likely they are using the proposed final draft of the HEVC h.265 codec.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/12/01/sony-xbr-4k-led-ultra-hdtv-hands-on/

Engadget is just news publication. It is not used in research. if you came back with a journal article, then that could be considered a source.

There is no data on the codec that was used, but 4k movies are quiet large un-compressed. No data on the compression rate. What is the fps? No data...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Sony XAVC files are usually much larger and therefore it is likely they are using the proposed final draft of the HEVC h.265 codec.

That is just guess!

Every post you seem to be pro Sony! So do you work for Sony? Look at the Sony product, it is all Sony. Sony has to give away their Tablet to sell that product.
Quote:
Xperia Tablet S
I recently was on business trip, and it seemed everyone on the plane had an Ipad. I control my TV now via Ipad. I do own lot of Sony Products, but I am not Pro Sony. The problem is their quality is verry poor.
Sony Changers are failing, Sony TV's dying within 6 months of purchase, but Sony buys them back at reduced cost. Sony should replace the product within a year. Really, their warranties are the worst in the industry.
Sony went all out on this tv. Wow, it is a 3 year warranty. So, it will die in less than 3 years.

I have a (3) Sony BDP-CX7000ES 400 Disc changers for Bluray. The oldest changer is only 2 years old, it is starting to show signs of failure. Sony warranty is 5 years! Sony now is starting to buy back the $2000 units for only $800. Hint, they are out of parts!

So, if you plan to buy the new Sony XBR-84X900, then please think twice about their warranty.

The company to watch will be Sharp, their new indium gallium zinc oxide technology has lot of potential. As of October 26, 2012, Sharp is producing 32-inch 3840 x 2160, 10-inch 2560 x 1600, 7-inch 1280 x 800 and 65 inch 4k UHDTV IGZO displays.
post #2292 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post

why spend $5500 for a 32" 4k display when you can get a 65" 4k tv right now for (CNY 39999) $6423.00 from skyworth or even a 50" 4k tv for $1500.00 "Fifteen Hundred" which is the tv I have.
I bought a high end pc I put together a few month's back and i'm going to run it off a gtx 680 on the web site it's running off of a gtx 660 so any 600 series can run it in 4k at 30hz max so it's perfectly fine for movies and some games. movies are recorded at 24 fps anyways so that's defendly not a problem and all I have to do is wait for someone I know to leak the 4k movies online from sony's 4k video server and I will have 10 4k movies and more when those come out in a few month's " here's the web site" http://tech.china.com.cn/elec/xppc/20121031/342.shtml
]there affordable right now but from china. I even have an onkyo 2013 video receiver that can upscale perfectly to 4k from any source.

Sharp has the best quality! In a year this product will drop! Sharp just got Intel to back them on this new technology, so expect prices to drop quickly. Sharp is also in negotiations with Dell. Apple is using the new technology. Hmmm, I wonder if the new Apple iPanel is 65"?
Well, the problem with China TV is that the company just started building TV's in 2009. There is huge line of companies that have failed, because they moved over to China. The problem is the quality control. Apple controls the quality control in China, and is selective on the parts.
Sony is made in China now, but you can see their quality control seems to be a joke!.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post

I have to do is wait for someone I know to leak the 4k movies online from sony's 4k video server and I will have 10 4k movies and more when those come out in a few month's .

Some one leaking those movies online? Well, I suspect those movies will only work with that TV. Sony shows 3 chips with that TV, when you view it on Sony's website. It would be rather easy to lock you down with hardware to that TV. So Sony has those movies encoded on their drive. Sony is well known for locking down their media content. For example SACD is one good example.
Edited by Nitro67 - 12/1/12 at 8:14pm
post #2293 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Sony is almost certainly using MPEG-4 AVC. The Amazing Spiderman is a 136 minute movie so that would allow for an average AV bit rate of 55.3 Mbps. Also the HEVC standard isn't finished yet and mass produced HEVC hardware decoders will most likely not be seen in consumer products until 2014.

I heard that HEVC won't be finalized till summer 2013. So, consumer products won't happen till 2015.
post #2294 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Sony is almost certainly using MPEG-4 AVC. The Amazing Spiderman is a 136 minute movie so that would allow for an average AV bit rate of 55.3 Mbps. Also the HEVC standard isn't finished yet and mass produced HEVC hardware decoders will most likely not be seen in consumer products until 2014.

I heard that HEVC won't be finalized till summer 2013. So, consumer products won't happen till 2015.
post #2295 of 3670
true but the point is I have a 4k tv right now that's also very affordable and is the cheapest one can get without breaking the bank! that's all that matters plus when the Koreans start coming out with there own 4k TV's they'll be even cheaper for the common man. that's all that's important.
post #2296 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post

true but the point is I have a 4k tv right now that's also very affordable and is the cheapest one can get without breaking the bank! that's all that matters plus when the Koreans start coming out with there own 4k TV's they'll be even cheaper for the common man. that's all that's important.

The problem is not the TV cost, that will drop in time. The problem is media content, there is really no good way to distribute the media. Streaming only works if you have broadband. I have friends that are in the USA, and no Broadband is available. A server is not the answer either, it locks you down to 1 company.. I can see it now, the goverment will sue the TV companies for monopoly (See if the TV company produces the server, media content and TV, then the other companies can't really make money.). Anyway, Physical media is the best solution, because it helps distribute the media to everyone.
post #2297 of 3670
well from recent news is that there already making Blu-ray that can hold one terabyte of data and will be available in 2014/2015. right now the highest optical media storage is Blu-ray XL which can hold 100gb. those 4k movies that SONY are giving to those select people that buy there 4k TV's are 56 to 60gb in size so if true we can have a compressed 4k movie fit on a Blu-ray XL but would have to come out with a Blu-ray player to use it unless the new ones have that capability already. I myself have over 20 terabytes of space so I would store my movies digitally on my computer that can display 4k content on my 4k TV. hardrive space is so cheap you could buy a 3 terabyte hardrive for almost $100.00. i'm going to be honest 4K will happen a lot faster than 1080p a lot faster. The manufacturing cost is almost the same they say the only thing expensive is the panel type. the only reason those be TV's sony and LG came out with is so expensive is because the panel is so huge and hard to manufacture but smaller 4K TV's will cost about the same as premium 1080p TV's today case in point the 50" 4K TV I bought for $1500.
post #2298 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post

well from recent news is that there already making Blu-ray that can hold one terabyte of data and will be available in 2014/2015. right now the highest optical media storage is Blu-ray XL which can hold 100gb. those 4k movies that SONY are giving to those select people that buy there 4k TV's are 56 to 60gb in size so if true we can have a compressed 4k movie fit on a Blu-ray XL but would have to come out with a Blu-ray player to use it unless the new ones have that capability already. I myself have over 20 terabytes of space so I would store my movies digitally on my computer that can display 4k content on my 4k TV. hardrive space is so cheap you could buy a 3 terabyte hardrive for almost $100.00. i'm going to be honest 4K will happen a lot faster than 1080p a lot faster. The manufacturing cost is almost the same they say the only thing expensive is the panel type. the only reason those be TV's sony and LG came out with is so expensive is because the panel is so huge and hard to manufacture but smaller 4K TV's will cost about the same as premium 1080p TV's today case in point the 50" 4K TV I bought for $1500.

1TB Blu-ray is just more layers. The size is not the issue, it is the data rate. Bluray can't do it! I posted on BDXL in this post #2192. It is on this page. BDXL has been available for a few years, but it is the media cost that hasn't not dropped to make it an option. I own the recorder, but it is cheaper for me to use BD-R than BDXL. Multiple layer solution, just costs more to manufacture. I just don't see it as solution. Again, there is no data rate increase with that solution. 20TB of space is only enough for 400 Discs of 1080P Bluray. I currently have over 1000 Bluray's, so my collection is quiet large.

See your post is similar to the other posts, because it based on what is available in today's technology. When HDTV came out in the late 1990's, we didn't have bluray. We had to wait till 2006 for Bluray to be released. HD DVD was released before bluray. I had both, but there are some movies that had better picture quality on HD DVD than Bluray. You have the same issue with 4k, so when it is best to buy a TV? Wait to the dust settles, because right now is a repeat of last time. RED has huge collection of 4k movies, Sony has a collection, but what about the other studios? You need a physical format to release it to the public, then costs will drop as the market adopts the format.

I want a good solution for everyone, but over compressed Bluray is not the answer.

It is better to wait till 8K, instead of 4k.
post #2299 of 3670
funny thing is I also bought a HDDVD player and felt so cheated after they said bluray won so i'm way more hesitant to try out new technology than I used to but remember people have to start somewhere and as much as i'd like to wait till 8k comes out it would be a mighty long wait so i'm good with 4k for now. you'll see wait till CES 2013 and you'll see those high bit rate players needed for 4k playback just watch! the format itself will be those 1 terabyte bluray disc since they just found a way to speed up production significantly and by 2014 will be in full production.
post #2300 of 3670
Higher bandwidth Satellite that will be your future.
There is a new technology that is coming for satellites too. Bandwidth is in the Terabytes, but I just don't see it coming before 10 to 15 years.
Briefing says 2017 to 2030 is the full business plan.
http://www.laserlightcomms.com/newsroom.php
http://www.laserlightcomms.com/res/laserlight_presentation.pdf




Edited by Nitro67 - 12/1/12 at 10:17pm
post #2301 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenoh89 View Post

funny thing is I also bought a HDDVD player and felt so cheated after they said bluray won so i'm way more hesitant to try out new technology than I used to but remember people have to start somewhere and as much as i'd like to wait till 8k comes out it would be a mighty long wait so i'm good with 4k for now. you'll see wait till CES 2013 and you'll see those high bit rate players needed for 4k playback just watch! the format itself will be those 1 terabyte bluray disc since they just found a way to speed up production significantly and by 2014 will be in full production.

In may of 2012, it was stated that Holographic disc would come out in 3 years to the market. I posted a reliable article about a company that developed Holographic storage. There are 3 PhD scientists working at the new company, and their plans are to sell to Sony and Hitachi. Hitachi already has holographic storage in development now. So, I doubt if CES 2013 will show anything new. Holographic disc will be needed for a backup, but NASA has something that is coming in the future. So, streaming will be able send higher data rates in the future.
post #2302 of 3670
There is a new technology that is coming for satellites too. Bandwidth is in the Terabytes, but I just don't see it coming for awhile. The briefing states the full business plan will be ready by 2017 to 2030.
Video is from NASA. Although, that is the commercial version. The post below has more detail, but it won't seem to post correctly.
http://www.laserlightcomms.com/newsroom.php

http://www.laserlightcomms.com/res/laserlight_presentation.pdf


Edited by Nitro67 - 12/1/12 at 10:46pm
post #2303 of 3670
Laser Communications in detail...
post #2304 of 3670
Laser Comms in more detail about your future and the end of physical media

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8LL2rRnw9o&feature=share&list=PLB771B3094DE62D9B
post #2305 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

The only organization to announce support for 8K UHDTV has been the NHK, there is currently no consumer connection capable of 8K at 30 fps (and certainly not at 120 fps), the costs for 8K UHDTV will be much higher than the costs for 4K UHDTV, and for the average person (at an 8 foot viewing distance) a display size of at least 120" would be needed to benefit from 8K UHDTV.

Optical display Port can handle it. Any optical connection can handle that bit rate, but Irkuk is just saying that is better to wait for 8k. Actually, most of the broadcasters are waiting for 8k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

The BDA has announced a task force but it might take months for them to create a specification. Considering how long it usually takes to go from specification to consumer products it likely won't be until 2014 before 4K Blu-ray players get released.

That is a joke! BDA already knows that Bluray can't do the data rates, so they form a committee? Sony has known since 2009, so they form a task force to keep their jobs. Apple doesn't want Bluray!
Apple is pro streaming, but I don't see that Laser comms till 2025, it is getting the satellites in space is the issue.
Holographic disc might be option. But Bluray? Sorry, not going to happen.
post #2306 of 3670
All I want is to stream a bluray quality with uncompressed audio and subtitles, when I can get that I'll never buy a disc again.

When I moved out of my folks house I tossed over 500 VHS in the trash

When I moved out of my apartment I tossed over 1500 DVDs

Now in my house I had to start putting blurays in a box in the basement as I don't have the room for em on the 3 ikea book cases I have
post #2307 of 3670
4K will be a intermediate format before 8K. The problem with 8K now is really the processing power for acquisition and post production. The progress in producing processing power, particularly heat management in small form-factor equipment like cameras, will dictate how fast 8K will come to marked.

The funny thing is that it is the Broadcast industry that is in the forefront and pushing 8K, while the Movie industry that produces content mostly for much larger screens than the broadcast industry and would have much larger benefit of higher resolution is doing nothing when it comes to 8K, and in fact is largely resisting the move from 2K to 4K.

The movie industry should have been on 8K capture and display about now, to differentiate themselves in quality from what people can have in their homes in the same way the movie industry developed Scope and large format films in the 1950s to compete with the birth of TV broadcast.

Here is an BBC video report from November 30, on the progress of NHK's development of 8K broadcast. In short; NHK confirms they will not progress via 4K, but jump straight from HD to 8K. They will not develop any 3D format for 8K, as they say 8K quality makes 3D not very interesting. Estimated time for 8K broadcast introduction, about seven years from now.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/click_online/9774380.stm

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As for the large storage discussion; Memristor storage will come to market long before the multi-fails of Holographic discs will ever see light of day.
post #2308 of 3670
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Originally Posted by Richard Paul View Post

Sony is almost certainly using MPEG-4 AVC. The Amazing Spiderman is a 136 minute movie so that would allow for an average AV bit rate of 55.3 Mbps. Also the HEVC standard isn't finished yet and mass produced HEVC hardware decoders will most likely not be seen in consumer products until 2014.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro67 View Post

I heard that HEVC won't be finalized till summer 2013. So, consumer products won't happen till 2015.

Last I read, the final draft of HEVC and the h.265 codec was supposed to be ratified in Jan 2013 sometime. Do you have a link to were that has changed? You can already download h.265 encoders and decoders that do it in software, just waiting on a hardware controller chip. I like to gamble and I am willing to bet Sony will show a 4K blu-ray at CES and will have a 4K blu-ray player in the USA by the end of 2013 at the latest. No way will it take until 2015. Check out Qualcomm's demo of h.265 codec running on a Snapdragon processor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZfsULKG2Zo
post #2309 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

They will not develop any 3D format for 8K, as they say 8K quality makes 3D not very interesting. Estimated time for 8K broadcast introduction, about seven years from now.
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I think NHK want a better version of 3D than the current stereoscopic version. eg. multiview or better (eg. real 3D).
post #2310 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

Last I read, the final draft of HEVC and the h.265 codec was supposed to be ratified in Jan 2013 sometime. Do you have a link to were that has changed?
I saw an interview with one of the members of the Mpeg-H working group that is coordinating with the HEVC working group. He said they hope to be ready by summer 2013.
But that doesn't mean it will take to 2015 for any HEVC material to be released. If the basic is ready in January, so the hardware can be built, it is only a matter of software upgrades to add minor improvements to the processing.
Sorry, don't have any links. Interview was not in English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

I think NHK want a better version of 3D than the current stereoscopic version. eg. multiview or better (eg. real 3D).
That is possible, but if you watch the BBC video I posted link to, they totally dismissed 3D for 8K.
One reason is that 8K on a TV has so much "3D pop" in itself. Something that have been reported numerous times from people watching the 8K TVs at the various expos in recent years.
And that material was shot with prototype cameras and shown on prototype TVs. Expect big improvements both in software and hardware for 8K in the next 5-10 years.
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