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4k by 2k or Quad HD...lots of rumors? thoughts? - Page 95

post #2821 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

2160p gaming at 60 fps, 6MP Passive 3D, Splitview gaming, dynamic mapping, real time adaptable AI, 64 players single player gaming, non-peer dedicated servers, guaranteed zero lag compensator, voice and motion control and ton more crap I never knew I needed.
Oh, so you wanted a PC then. Possibly with something like a Novint Falcon, TrackIR, or the Razor Hydra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sytech View Post

That would be next gen gaming insted of the mid range PC that can easily port over PC games from 3 years ago. Color me unimpressed on the gaming side
It's pretty much what everyone has been saying it would be for the last year, except for a last-minute change to 8GB GDDR5 rather than 4GB GDDR5. Console hardware is always underpowered compared to PC hardware. The difference is that this time, the specs are far more easily compared, with it running an x86 CPU and AMD graphics. The new Xbox is a very similar spec too. (actually, it's less powerful - at least in its current state)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Will the PS4 be 4K capable?

In a chat with Kotaku, Sony has revealed that the PlayStation 4 will be able to playback 4K/Ultra HD video. However, it will not upscale to 4K or play games at 4K resolution.
Well it's just an x86 box with hardware that is more than capable of handling upscaling to 4K, so they could easily change that in software in the future.
post #2822 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I watched the entire event and color me unimpressed. The CPU, GPU and memory improvements were inevitable and are encouraging, but I feel kind of let down.

I was boggled. It sounded like... PS3 with social features and upgraded specs. Upgraded specs are nice, of course, since PS3 is pretty ancient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Let down? What were you expecting?

Anything, really, that would capture the imagination. Anything.

In consoles, there have been very few moments that have done it, in fairness, and sometimes it's only after the fact you realize the console is special (because of game support, e.g. original Playstation). But beyond that, there has been the Wii Remote, the Kinect, PS3's BluRay.

PS4 offers... a controller that looks like a fat PS3 controller with a touchpad in the middle. And?

I suspect gamer types will be excited -- mildly -- at the prospects of a new console. I say mildly because a lot of gamers play on PC and are pretty happy with the choices there. Also, it's clear Sony isn't abandoning PS3 in a hurry either. I doubt PS4 will hit with the crashing thud of Wii U, but I doubt you'll have trouble getting one a month or two after launch either. I suppose a lot depends on price and clearly Sony has stopped positioning the Playstation as a living-room hub -- it's a game console.

But without something exciting (and I can't believe I'm saying this, but, uh, Oculus Rift anyone?), how will this expand the shrinking market for console gaming?
post #2823 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post


Well it's just an x86 box with hardware that is more than capable of handling upscaling to 4K, so they could easily change that in software in the future.

If 4K upscaling were important to me and I wanted it in the PS4, I wouldn't buy it with the 'hope' that Sony will add it in the future. Granted Sony has been terrific about adding many new capabilities to the PS3, but I still don't think it's prudent buying anything on the assumption it will be added.

For my purposes it's more important that the PS4 is capable of playing back 4K as Sony states it can, rather than the upscaling feature. Chances are pretty good that the display will do as good a job or better than any future upscaling capability that may be added to the PS4.

Mark, I'm surprised you're downplaying the capability to play 4K material. That's pretty significant in my book...certainly relative to the PS3. smile.gif
post #2824 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Mark, I'm surprised you're downplaying the capability to play 4K material. That's pretty significant in my book...certainly relative to the PS3. smile.gif

Ken, what 4K material?

I mean I guess it is significant but I'm not pre-ordering a PS4 to get that. I did get a PS3 at launch for BluRay.

My downplaying here is less about how it might be nice for the AVS crowd and more about how I don't see why it's going to sell well period. There was talk next-gen consoles were going to be "final generation". That generation might be a small one, if this is any indication.
post #2825 of 3670
Mark, my assumption is that the PS4 would allow 4K streaming that Sony has talked about. I could be wrong, but I don't see what other application Sony would have in mind for that feature.
post #2826 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Mark, my assumption is that the PS4 would allow 4K streaming that Sony has talked about. I could be wrong, but I don't see what other application Sony would have in mind for that feature.

You're probably right. It could act as a version of the player thing they are loaning to 4K TV buyers. You'd probably need to add a big hard drive, but that's cheap enough.

I guess the thing is, when PS3 came out, millions of us could make use of a BluRay player. With this, it's going to be a few thousand that can care about a 4K player.... Color me unexcited in the short run,. pleased for the longer term.
post #2827 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

PS4 offers... a controller that looks like a fat PS3 controller with a touchpad in the middle. And?
And move motion control built in, and a depth-sensing stereo camera, and a ton of online game-sharing features.

I mean, we have basically perfected the standard games controller—at least that’s how it seems. It's been refined over three generations now, and there doesn’t seem to be much lacking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I suspect gamer types will be excited -- mildly -- at the prospects of a new console.
Well being a games console, it’s exactly what most gamers have been looking for. A big increase in power to allow for new gameplay experiences, without any focus on gimmick controls that ruin the experience.

The majority of Wii sales were not to gamers, but to “non-gamers” that were interested in Wii Sports or Wii Fit and nothing else. After that market bought their system and one or two titles, they grew bored and never touched it again. Motion controls were horrible for traditional games, and the hardware was a generation out of date, so it was of no interest to gamers. This is why the Wii did very well, but then sales dropped precipitously. Nintendo probably did well out of it, but that tactic is not going to work again—gamers are sick of motion controls, and the mass market is done with games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I say mildly because a lot of gamers play on PC and are pretty happy with the choices there.
Well that has been driven a lot by the fact that you could build a really cheap PC and play all the console ports in 1080p at 60fps, when console games have been struggling at 720p or less, with unstable framerates that are often below 30fps.

Gamers are tired of this generation, as it has gone on for two years too long and things have stagnated, with companies just pushing out hurried sequels to games (the number of “3” games the last couple of years has been ridiculous) that have not been very good, and try to sell on the franchise name alone.

It’s been very interesting to see the reaction of the enthusiast press vs the tech press to this event though. I don’t know anyone that I would call a “gamer” that wasn’t really excited by the end of it, and they were all surprised about how much they actually talked about, and demoed games—that’s not what you expect from a hardware announcement.

The tech press on the other hand seem disinterested because there was no hardware shown off (who cares, it's just a box) and because there wasn’t some gimmick controller—it’s a proper games machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

I doubt PS4 will hit with the crashing thud of Wii U
Well it has a 4 in the title, and doesn’t just appear to be a controller add-on for the old hardware. I can’t believe how poorly thought out and marketed the Wii U has been. And gamers don’t want it because that controller is stupid, and the hardware is a generation out of date again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

clearly Sony has stopped positioning the Playstation as a living-room hub -- it's a game console.
I don’t think you can say that yet, it’s just that this event was focused on games—which is what Sony has needed to do after the sales of the PS3. They are finally doing well with that hardware, but they lost so much market share to Microsoft for being a year late and overpriced that they have had to double-down on games to get people back.

And what do people want from a “media hub” system that the PS3 doesn’t do anyway? These days you just need to be a DLNA client, have a Netflix app, play Blu-ray discs, and potentially support some kind of 4K media whether it’s discs or digital distribution—and it’s probably too early for that yet with H.265 only just being finalised. Sony seems to be very focused on digital distribution with games (finally) and the specs seem to have a 6× Blu-ray drive rather than a BDXL drive so I do wonder what that means for the future of 4K distribution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

But without something exciting (and I can't believe I'm saying this, but, uh, Oculus Rift anyone?), how will this expand the shrinking market for console gaming?
A large part in why the console market is “shrinking” is because the Wii sold hundreds of millions of hardware to people that are not gamers. They just wanted to play Wii Sports/Wii Fit. They didn’t expand the market, they just made a lot of sales to people outside it. That group has lost interest and shifted over to mobile, so we’re back to people that are actually interested in buying games consoles to play games.

Games sales are dying off because the generation has gone on too long now. No one is going to take risks on new IP at the end of the cycle—you wait until new hardware is out for that. And a lot of people don’t have the disposable income they used to five years ago. The gaming industry is getting hit hard where I live, because people just can’t afford to buy games like they used to.

Part of the reason people are switching to PC is cost. While you don’t have to opportunity to sell or trade in games, PC games have a lower upfront cost, and within a couple of weeks you can usually get them for 30–50% off. Within a few months, they are often 75% off. Console game prices went up this generation, the average length of games is getting much shorter (from 20 last generation to 6 now) and the prices stay high—it will be even worse with digital distribution unless Sony/Microsoft follow the Steam model—so far they just sell games at full price with no discounts. When you are competing with mobile where games are a dollar, $60 seems ridiculous. Something needs to be done about that.
post #2828 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross 

If 4K upscaling were important to me and I wanted it in the PS4, I wouldn't buy it with the 'hope' that Sony will add it in the future. Granted Sony has been terrific about adding many new capabilities to the PS3, but I still don't think it's prudent buying anything on the assumption it will be added.

For my purposes it's more important that the PS4 is capable of playing back 4K as Sony states it can, rather than the upscaling feature. Chances are pretty good that the display will do as good a job or better than any future upscaling capability that may be added to the PS4.

Mark, I'm surprised you're downplaying the capability to play 4K material. That's pretty significant in my book...certainly relative to the PS3. smile.gif
What about these uberexpensive 4K TVs upscale abilities. Do you really need a player for that? I find it hard to believe that a €400 player does 4K upscaling better than a €15.000 TV.
post #2829 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

What about these uberexpensive 4K TVs upscale abilities. Do you really need a player for that? I find it hard to believe that a €400 player does 4K upscaling better than a €15.000 TV.

That's what I was saying. Chances are the upscaling of your 4K display will do as well or better than the 4K upscaling of a PS4 (if it had it). That's why I downplayed the importance of upscaling in the PS4.
post #2830 of 3670
PS4 will support 4K, to an extent

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1361519771

Still would like more elaboration on the subject from Sony though, especially in terms of how they plan to deliver the content.
post #2831 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

And move motion control built in, and a depth-sensing stereo camera, and a ton of online game-sharing features.

I mean, we have basically perfected the standard games controller—at least that’s how it seems. It's been refined over three generations now, and there doesn’t seem to be much lacking.
Well being a games console, it’s exactly what most gamers have been looking for. A big increase in power to allow for new gameplay experiences, without any focus on gimmick controls that ruin the experience.

The majority of Wii sales were not to gamers, but to “non-gamers” that were interested in Wii Sports or Wii Fit and nothing else. After that market bought their system and one or two titles, they grew bored and never touched it again. Motion controls were horrible for traditional games, and the hardware was a generation out of date, so it was of no interest to gamers. This is why the Wii did very well, but then sales dropped precipitously. Nintendo probably did well out of it, but that tactic is not going to work again—gamers are sick of motion controls, and the mass market is done with games.
Well that has been driven a lot by the fact that you could build a really cheap PC and play all the console ports in 1080p at 60fps, when console games have been struggling at 720p or less, with unstable framerates that are often below 30fps.

Gamers are tired of this generation, as it has gone on for two years too long and things have stagnated, with companies just pushing out hurried sequels to games (the number of “3” games the last couple of years has been ridiculous) that have not been very good, and try to sell on the franchise name alone.

It’s been very interesting to see the reaction of the enthusiast press vs the tech press to this event though. I don’t know anyone that I would call a “gamer” that wasn’t really excited by the end of it, and they were all surprised about how much they actually talked about, and demoed games—that’s not what you expect from a hardware announcement.

The tech press on the other hand seem disinterested because there was no hardware shown off (who cares, it's just a box) and because there wasn’t some gimmick controller—it’s a proper games machine.
Well it has a 4 in the title, and doesn’t just appear to be a controller add-on for the old hardware. I can’t believe how poorly thought out and marketed the Wii U has been. And gamers don’t want it because that controller is stupid, and the hardware is a generation out of date again.
I don’t think you can say that yet, it’s just that this event was focused on games—which is what Sony has needed to do after the sales of the PS3. They are finally doing well with that hardware, but they lost so much market share to Microsoft for being a year late and overpriced that they have had to double-down on games to get people back.

And what do people want from a “media hub” system that the PS3 doesn’t do anyway? These days you just need to be a DLNA client, have a Netflix app, play Blu-ray discs, and potentially support some kind of 4K media whether it’s discs or digital distribution—and it’s probably too early for that yet with H.265 only just being finalised. Sony seems to be very focused on digital distribution with games (finally) and the specs seem to have a 6× Blu-ray drive rather than a BDXL drive so I do wonder what that means for the future of 4K distribution.
A large part in why the console market is “shrinking” is because the Wii sold hundreds of millions of hardware to people that are not gamers. They just wanted to play Wii Sports/Wii Fit. They didn’t expand the market, they just made a lot of sales to people outside it. That group has lost interest and shifted over to mobile, so we’re back to people that are actually interested in buying games consoles to play games.

Games sales are dying off because the generation has gone on too long now. No one is going to take risks on new IP at the end of the cycle—you wait until new hardware is out for that. And a lot of people don’t have the disposable income they used to five years ago. The gaming industry is getting hit hard where I live, because people just can’t afford to buy games like they used to.

Part of the reason people are switching to PC is cost. While you don’t have to opportunity to sell or trade in games, PC games have a lower upfront cost, and within a couple of weeks you can usually get them for 30–50% off. Within a few months, they are often 75% off. Console game prices went up this generation, the average length of games is getting much shorter (from 20 last generation to 6 now) and the prices stay high—it will be even worse with digital distribution unless Sony/Microsoft follow the Steam model—so far they just sell games at full price with no discounts. When you are competing with mobile where games are a dollar, $60 seems ridiculous. Something needs to be done about that.

Gamers are pretty much interested in not having to get off their ass and change the disc to play a different game(think cloud storage.) Most of them haven't even heard of 4K yet. People will eventually realize what a nice feature it is(once there's a substantive amount of source material), but until then the convenience factor of going disc-less rules the day.
post #2832 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

PS4 will support 4K, to an extent

http://flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1361519771

Still would like more elaboration on the subject from Sony though, especially in terms of how they plan to deliver the content.

Seems to be pretty much as I said, streaming.
post #2833 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Seems to be pretty much as I said, streaming.

At the moment there really is no other medium for 4K content, other than Sony's hard-drive plan for their XBR-X900. It's a good thing that it'll support any 4K playback, what-so-ever, even it's only via streaming. Spot on though Mr. Ross.
Edited by hoozthatat - 2/22/13 at 7:29pm
post #2834 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

At the moment there really is no other medium for 4K content, other than Sony's hard-drive plan for their XBR-X900. It's a good thing that it'll support any 4K playback, what-so-ever, even it's only via streaming. Spot on though Mr. Ross.

Hooz, have you seen this? Might be a key content contributor in the near future.

I wonder if the PS4 supports 4K 60p (which their current and upcoming 4K TVs don't)

http://www.red.com/store/products/redray-player
post #2835 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hooz, have you seen this? Might be a key content contributor in the near future.

I wonder if the PS4 supports 4K 60p (which their current and upcoming 4K TVs don't)

http://www.red.com/store/products/redray-player

I've seen the Red 4K player Ken, I think I may have poorly worded my response. I meant at the moment there's really only 4K via streaming and "some-sort of hard drive."

The FPHD article says theres no word yet if the PS4 will support 4K with HFR, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Sony skipped it, unfortunately.
Edited by hoozthatat - 2/23/13 at 10:57am
post #2836 of 3670
Hooz, if I had a 4K display, the RedRay would be on my short list.
post #2837 of 3670
Ken, I'd agree. The asking price is reasonable, and it seems like a great sidekick for the available 4K displays. I'd like to see a side by side comparison of 4K material being unconverted on either the LM9600 or the X900 from say a BD player, vs content being displayed off of the RedRay vs Sony's HardDrive.
post #2838 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post

Ken, I'd agree. The asking price is reasonable, and it seems like a great sidekick for the available 4K displays. I'd like to see a side by side comparison of 4K material being unconverted on either the LM9600 or the X900 from say a BD player, vs content being displayed off of the RedRay vs Sony's HardDrive.

Hooz, I did see my 2K HD footage from my Sony NEX VG30 upconverted on the 84" Sony 4K. It looked very good, but certainly not '4K'ish'. I plan to go back to Sony and take a look at some high rez photos I'll take with me. I'm sure those will look great.

The real issue for me is the inability of these displays to handle 4K @60p. What makes it worse is we have no idea what will happen when you feed a 4K 60p signal to these units. Will we get an 'out of range' indication on the display or a negotiated HDMI handshake down to 1080 60p. The latter wouldn't be so bad, the former would be really bad.
post #2839 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Hooz, I did see my 2K HD footage from my Sony NEX VG30 upconverted on the 84" Sony 4K. It looked very good, but certainly not '4K'ish'. I plan to go back to Sony and take a look at some high rez photos I'll take with me. I'm sure those will look great.

The real issue for me is the inability of these displays to handle 4K @60p. What makes it worse is we have no idea what will happen when you feed a 4K 60p signal to these units. Will we get an 'out of range' indication on the display or a negotiated HDMI handshake down to 1080 60p. The latter wouldn't be so bad, the former would be really bad.

I've wondered the same thing. I've read quite a few posts on here from various contributors who have been giddy about 4K for HTPC or general PC monitor purposes. I can't imagine many of them would be thrilled about the idea of PC gaming, or HTPC usage with the output of only 24 or 30Hz. And for those that are using their giant 84"+ displays for HT usage, I'd be a bit hesitant to have a display that's unable to except 4k@60p.

Another "out of curiosity" for you Ken. Did you happen to see the Netflix 4K streaming demo @ CES? And how'd it look?
post #2840 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoozthatat View Post


Another "out of curiosity" for you Ken. Did you happen to see the Netflix 4K streaming demo @ CES? And how'd it look?

I didn't get to CES, but I wish I did. In fact I always say I'll get there next year and never do. Maybe next year! smile.gif
post #2841 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I didn't get to CES, but I wish I did. In fact I always say I'll get there next year and never do. Maybe next year! smile.gif

2014 will be my first year in attendence. Can't wait.
post #2842 of 3670
Some recent 4K related links I have found. Some I have posted here and there. Post them here for collection.

Watch the videos too.
Quick Look: DirectX 11 Gaming in 4K on Windows 8

4K Photo Editing on Windows 8 using Adobe Photoshop CS6

Extreme 4K Multi-Mon Video Editing on Windows 8

Check the link at the bottom of the article for demo;
Beamr claims up to 75% reduction in H.264 bitrates - and works with 4K

LG Shows Off New Wireless 4K Mobile Streaming
post #2843 of 3670
Quote:
Beamr claims up to 75% reduction in H.264 bitrates - and works with 4K
The brief redshark thing says almost nothing, so it is hard to evaluate, but anything they are doing with h264 to reduce bitrate could also be done with h265, or it is likely already part of h265. I expect any more improvements provided by h265 vs h264 will be required for reasonable 4k bitrates.

Redshark telling us some material is easier to compress than others is like telling us water is wet, and should be pretty irrelevent unless beamr admits that their reduction only comes under certain ideal conditions. If their compression scheme for average material compared is not as good as h265, then I'd expect very few in the industry to pay attention.

x264 can already compress better than commerial h264 encoders, for similar quality. You could improve the quality of blu-ray using the same encoder by dropping the requirement for 4 slices or increasing GOP size.
I admit the GOP size change probably wouldn't improve much, but I think dropping the requirement for 4 slices would, but I haven't kept up with it.

I did find this where DarkShikari estimated the cost @ 30%. I didn't read it that closely and it is a couple of years old now, so the penalty may be much less now.
BTW, the slicing thing is a BD requirement for level 4.1, but from what I understand, practically no BD players required it. Maybe none did. So nothing like this should be required for a 4k h265 standard.
post #2844 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Some recent 4K related links I have found. Some I have posted here and there. Post them here for collection.

Watch the videos too.
Quick Look: DirectX 11 Gaming in 4K on Windows 8

4K Photo Editing on Windows 8 using Adobe Photoshop CS6

Extreme 4K Multi-Mon Video Editing on Windows 8

Check the link at the bottom of the article for demo;
Beamr claims up to 75% reduction in H.264 bitrates - and works with 4K

LG Shows Off New Wireless 4K Mobile Streaming
Thanks. I think you're in love with high resolutions. I imagine you search for "4K" and "8K" through Google (with "Past 24 hours" selected) every morning while drinking coffee. biggrin.gif

Please, if you (or anyone else) can help me out with this (by "help me out" I mean "just tell me what do you think"):
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

LG Shows Off New Wireless 4K Mobile Streaming

I've had such stupid "it-is-no-it-isn't-yes-it-is" type of conversation on The Verge comment section for this news (LG 4K mobile streaming).
Guy was claiming that 2x nearest neighbor scaling "1080p -> 2160p" isn't "scaling through algorithm", that it's just "simple math".

Now, I'm very well aware of how simple 2x nearest neighbor scaling is but to say an algorithm (piece of code; instructions) isn't in charge of scaling is just plain stupid, in my opinion.
Edited by Randomoneh - 2/27/13 at 1:17am
post #2845 of 3670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomoneh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

Some recent 4K related links I have found. Some I have posted here and there. Post them here for collection.

Watch the videos too.
Quick Look: DirectX 11 Gaming in 4K on Windows 8

4K Photo Editing on Windows 8 using Adobe Photoshop CS6

Extreme 4K Multi-Mon Video Editing on Windows 8

Check the link at the bottom of the article for demo;
Beamr claims up to 75% reduction in H.264 bitrates - and works with 4K

LG Shows Off New Wireless 4K Mobile Streaming
Thanks. I think you're in love with high resolutions. I imagine you search for "4K" and "8K" through Google (with "Past 24 hours" selected) every morning while drinking coffee. biggrin.gif

Please, if you (or anyone else) can help me out with this (by "help me out" I mean "just tell me what do you think"):
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

LG Shows Off New Wireless 4K Mobile Streaming

I've had such stupid "it-is-no-it-isn't-yes-it-is" type of conversation on The Verge comment section for this news (LG 4K mobile streaming).
Guy was claiming that 2x nearest neighbor scaling "1080p -> 2160p" isn't "scaling through algorithm", that it's just "simple math".

Now, I'm very well aware of how simple 2x nearest neighbor scaling is but to say an algorithm (piece of code; instructions) isn't in charge of scaling is just plain stupid, in my opinion.

You might want to interject what Chron has been talking about. That the pixel grid itself (the gaps between pixels) is narrower in 4K, such that the 1080 image

#O#O
O#O#
#O#O
O#O#

is *less* clear than the 2160 image

##OO##OO
##OO##OO
OO##OO##
OO##OO##
##OO##OO
##OO##OO
OO##OO##
OO##OO##
post #2846 of 3670
post #2847 of 3670
Great, the biggest compressors on the block.
post #2848 of 3670
DirecTV is absolutely not the biggest compressor on the block. In fact, they are typically regarding as having the best HD picture quality (with perhaps FiOS considered better for those lucky enough to get it).
post #2849 of 3670
Can they trademark 4k when its already been in use in the industry? Were they able to trademark 1080p when it came out?
post #2850 of 3670
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirectTV spokesman 
4K is something we're thinking about, but we're only in the exploratory stages. The technology is many years away at this point eek.gif
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