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My HT\2ch setup - Page 13

post #361 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

OK. Just another gratuitous post by me tongue.gif. I finished watching Red Cliff. The movie is close to 3 1/2 to 4 hours so I spread it over 2 days. The sound is amazing on this disk. I think I have the Butt Kicker no more than 2.5, But let me tell you, on this movie it was perfect. It was not overly hot but trust me, you knew it was there. It blended seamlessly with what was going on with the screen. It seemed really matched up well with the sub. I was really impressed with how my system as whole preformed with that movie. Not to mention that the picture looked out of this world good. The colors just jumped off of the screen. All in all I was very pleased. Next step is to watch another bass rich movie and see how that feels with the current settings. But after much trial and error, I think I have it right. When I first got it I was naturally wanting the most shake I could get. Even though if it was not "natural".
Now I appreciate the subtle things it does as opposed to just rocking my chair silly. I think this is it. I don't think I will have to turn it up any more. The amp is so sensitive it's crazy. Just a smidge of a turn and you know it. I know I can higher but I really think that it was over done and once I watch more movies this way, I will like it even more. So many people want the loudest and the most shake in the world. That's cool. I have no problem with that biggrin.gif. But my system now, at least in the audio realm. can stand up to some of the big boys out there. I really think it would be a surprise to some people. Anyway, that's enough for a "self" post for today.

Hi Mike,

It seems you've found the "sweet spot" for the volume setting. smile.gif The key is that you want the Crowson transducer to add an immersive effect to the movie WITHOUT calling attention to itself, which can take your attention away from the movie. Too much shaking can actually be distracting. If you current amp setting is providing immersion without distraction, you have it "just right." smile.gif That's the "Goldilocks" setting.

The rest of your system we already know is top notch, but it's fun reading your posts anyway. smile.gif

Craig
post #362 of 899
Thread Starter 
Yep, Just as a followup, I made it through TRON at the new level without a hitch. I think it is just right. It is not over cooked in my view. Also, how come we have so many different audio formats. Craig, if you remember, I was worried that I was not getting the DVD-A off of any disks. Well, I was wrong. I am getting DVD-A. I have two disks from this company called High Rez. I thought they were just DVD-A disks because on the case it says DVD on it. When I play them and I hit the info button, it says PCM-Stereo. I have no idea what that is.


When I play a regular CD and hit the info button it just says CDDA. I have two other DVD-A disks. One is an Eric Clapton disk, When I hit the info button on that disk it says 5.1 MLP 86.2 k DVD audio. Although I think you can also listen to that in a 2ch version. I also have a Fleetwood Mac disk. When I hit the info on that one it says 5.1 MLP 96 k DVD audio. I can't remember if that can be played in 2ch only. I think it with those two only, it says MULTICH on the front of the Integra like you said it would for a DVD-A. I also have a Traffic disk that is a "higher resolution" and that says PCM stereo. I also have a Bruce disk that has PCM stereo and 5.1 Dolby Digital. I also have a DTS Eric Clapton that I did not check to see what it said. Plus, lastly, I have 2 Dr.John disks that say 24/96 on the disk yet when I play them I think they also say PCM-Stereo, SACD's say SACD. Simple. I like that. I guess for the other disks I am getting the right info but all these formats can be a bit much IMHO.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 7/14/12 at 4:49pm
post #363 of 899
Thread Starter 
OK. Just two words. Dark City eek.gif. Ok a few more words. The ending of that movie is insane. The bass was so intense it boarded on silly, I don't know how low it went but there was a lot of it. I think if I made it through TRON and that movie I am more than OK. But I will admit I was holding my breath at the end of Dark City. It's too bad I have only a 5.1 system because it is a 7.1 DTS-Master recording. If you like Science Fiction, I can highly suggest it. I think two posts in a row is enough for one day tongue.gif.
post #364 of 899
Dark city is fantastic Mike I love it.
post #365 of 899
Thread Starter 
Yea, it is a great movie. Lot's of really good actors and a cool story. I will add that besides that movie I just listened to some more vinyl. SRV. I have to say, the 1027's sounded out of this world. The bass was really deep but the vocals and everything else was also right where it should be. I mean, it had power behind it. I was really impressed with how good it sounded. It is a clean record, except for the very beginning so I may need to clean it again. But I heard virtually no pops whatsoever. Plus, I watched the Day After Tomorrow on regular DVD. That sounded great as well and the Crowson was a big plus with that movie. Even though I am only a 5.1 system, I think I get great pans and sound in the room. Plus, having the Crowson almost gives that tactile sensation of having a second sub so I really like that. Anyway, that's it for now. Thanks for checking in Frank biggrin.gif.
post #366 of 899
Have you watched Inception ? that has some great LFE which would be awesome for your subs.
post #367 of 899
Thread Starter 
OH Yea. Inception is fantastic. But I still have not had the time to watch it with the Crowson yet, I think that will be a fun watch with that as well as the sub.
post #368 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

OH Yea. Inception is fantastic. But I still have not had the time to watch it with the Crowson yet, I think that will be a fun watch with that as well as the sub.

Let me know when you do Im curious to read how it went.
post #369 of 899
Thread Starter 
When I get a chance to watch it, I will give a quick update on how it sounded and felt.
post #370 of 899
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Let me know when you do Im curious to read how it went.
OK. Inception. It sounded great and felt great. First, just focusing on the sound. The dialog was clear. The effects were great and you could tell the bass was in the room. With the Crowson, it just took it up a notch. On certain points, it was a nice added bonus. It was not over the top and was in the right places at the right time, Of course it might be cool to have it hotter, but I really think it is dialed in just right now. The first "kick" in the tub. The "strangeness of the dream" in the hotel... You get the idea. All of those moments were really well done with the Crowson. Any hotter and I really think it might take to much away from the movie itself so I think I will leave it where it is. If TRON and Inception "feel" right, I am sure other bass movies will also be great. Plus, if I made it through those two without an issue, I am sure that I should be fine for others. Again, as a whole, the movie and soundtrack sounded very good. I think I ended up at -15 or -14. I know that's not that loud but it was fine in my room. I could have gone louder but I just did not feel like it. I really like my Focals. Frank can atest to how good they are as can Craig, Anyway, that's my Inception update.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 8/1/12 at 7:26am
post #371 of 899
Thanks Mike for that I was curious how inception sounded on your system and I knew it would be good.

When the bass is dialled in right its best to leave it, unfortunaley some movies are mixed with low lfe, so be it I say. But if the lfe is blended in right it shouldn't overpower the rest of the speaker again that's depending on the mix. I've heard soundtracks where people s have lfe hot, I guess that's preference over reference.
post #372 of 899
Thread Starter 
I think it is dialed in just right. When I say "it" I mean my bass system. I call it a system now because I am using a sub woofer and a tactile system together. Right now, they really complement each other and I don't think I have to mess with either one. But also I will say that the entire audio system is also dialed in just right. With the Eq's and treatments, the sound is really on point. The video also is very clear and many movies just pop and also have great depth to them. I also agree with the mix statement. Some are just hotter then others and that is something you have to deal with, For ex, the Immortals is real hot. I made it through that film with no problems either, I think setup wise I am good to go. I am still going to try and have Craig come over and do one more set of measurements. I would like to get a sense of what my room is doing now since many of my charts were from when my system was very different. Again, I love the way it sounds and looks.
post #373 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I think it is dialed in just right. When I say "it" I mean my bass system. I call it a system now because I am using a sub woofer and a tactile system together. Right now, they really complement each other and I don't think I have to mess with either one. But also I will say that the entire audio system is also dialed in just right. With the Eq's and treatments, the sound is really on point. The video also is very clear and many movies just pop and also have great depth to them. I also agree with the mix statement. Some are just hotter then others and that is something you have to deal with, For ex, the Immortals is real hot. I made it through that film with no problems either, I think setup wise I am good to go. I am still going to try and have Craig come over and do one more set of measurements. I would like to get a sense of what my room is doing now since many of my charts were from when my system was very different. Again, I love the way it sounds and looks.

That film the LFE was hot I remember making the mistake cranking I had my wife run in shouting " whats going on " biggrin.gif

Quote:
Again, I love the way it sounds and looks

Well at the end of the day thats the main thing Mike.

.
post #374 of 899
Thread Starter 
I don't know what they were thinking with The Immortals. Just crazy bass.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 8/1/12 at 8:12am
post #375 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I don't know what they were thinking with The Immortals. Just crazy bass.

Certainly was.
post #376 of 899
Thread Starter 
I just wish I could be with some of you on the video side. Hell, I would even go for a 50" instead of my 42" but circumstances will prevent that from happening.
post #377 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I just wish I could be with some of you on the video side. Hell, I would even go for a 50" instead of my 42" but circumstances will prevent that from happening.

But you have the audio to compensate for that.wink.gif
post #378 of 899
With your subwoofer how low does it get mike? I've always been intrigued by how low some subs go. I had Phil from jl audio ( over here ) come my home one time and he was a subwoofer calibrator. He showed me once 17Hz at 100db + and all it did was shake the door no sound at all. I couldn't understand why the excitement by members in other forums by going low or even lower when you cannot hear it. It must be me but i just didn't get the excitement. frown.gif
post #379 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

But you have the audio to compensate for that.wink.gif

That's an understatement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

With your subwoofer how low does it get mike? I've always been intrigued by how low some subs go. I had Phil from jl audio ( over here ) come my home one time and he was a subwoofer calibrator. He showed me once 17Hz at 100db + and all it did was shake the door no sound at all. I couldn't understand why the excitement by members in other forums by going low or even lower when you cannot hear it. It must be me but i just didn't get the excitement. frown.gif

Well, if it's anything like some of the demos I've "heard" it's just the coolness factor of having that deep a bass note. It's powerful and people are attracted to it. I can definitely appreciate it although to be honest I don't need anything that low or powerful, just give me some buttkickers if I'm going that route. Just my opinion of course.
post #380 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcweber111 View Post

That's an understatement.
Well, if it's anything like some of the demos I've "heard" it's just the coolness factor of having that deep a bass note. It's powerful and people are attracted to it. I can definitely appreciate it although to be honest I don't need anything that low or powerful, just give me some buttkickers if I'm going that route. Just my opinion of course.

If you can hear the bass note fine but I didn't hear anything under 20hz . I hope no one gets upset ( just conversation )Just that in other forums everyone got very excited below 20hz. I just didn't get it, if you can't hear it why try to go down those levels?

I guess it must be me biggrin.gif
post #381 of 899
Thread Starter 
Frank, the sub woofer I have is flat to single digits in my room. I can easily reach 10Hz with no problem and you know when that happens eek.gif. In other, much bigger rooms, other people have also shown graphs that indicate that my sub can reach into the single digits. At those frequencies, they are felt more then heard. That is where the monster shake and rumble comes into play. As far as just getting butt kickers, or something like the Crowson(which I have) I agree %100 that they are fun. But having something like that does not automatically negate the need for a sub that goes really low. You still want that sub to fill in the bottom octaves because no matter what, you still notice it, When you watch a movie like War of the Worlds, or Inception, Unstoppable you will feel what a sub that can go that low can do for the movie watching experience,

This may get long, but let me give you a few examples. First, with myself. My previous sub, before the SubMersive, was JM Labs a SW900. That was a ported sub that had a 13.13 in driver and it had a 400 watt amp. It was a mighty fine sub. It could get loud and shake the room with no problem. I even did my own chart of it.
SW900(with EQ).png 18k .png file


As you can see, it was not a bad sub. It was fairly flat in my room. Except for the room dips at 63 Hz and around 20Hz. Now that was not a max chart, that was an Eq'ed chart. Here is a max SPL chart, I will never do this again eek.gif

So, that was my previous sub. Like I said, it was a great sounding sub. But, it did not go super low. When I started talking with Mark he assured me that going from what I had, to the SubMersive would be a monumental change. Well, within the first 10 seconds of watching a movie with the SubMersive I could tell the difference. It went way lower than the SW900. That showed itself by just adding a "weight" to the soundtrack and effects. Now when I watch a movie that has serious bass it is a grand experience. With the Submersive, I know that if there is any bass on the soundtrack, I will pick it up. So I know what you are asking your self. If the SubMersive is so good, then why did you get the Crowson. Well, I don't live alone. Getting the Crowson allows me to get that great tactile feel without having to crank up my overall system too much. But again, even just the raw SubMersive was plenty for my room. I just wanted to tinker and see what would happen.
Here is what my sub looks like after all of the EQ'ing is done

Take a look at that green line. That's the sub. Look how flat it is. There is no drop off at all and that graph ends at 16Hz not because that's where the sub ends. It stops at 16Hz because Craig's gear does not go lower than that. But I have yet another graph that showed that I am virtually flat to 8hz that was done a long time ago by Mark S. Once you really experience that low powerful bass done right, it's hard to go back to any else.

Now you have 4 great subs spread about your room. No doubt about it. I am sure you have great bass all around. And I am not saying that you should get rid of them and get something else. I would never do that. All I can do is say that I did not get it either until I bought a sub that could do what mine could not. If you are satisfied with how your system sounds and feels(and I can't imagine why you would not be), then don't worry about it. I was bitten and I would not have been satisfied until I checked it out for myself.

Now I know this is long so just hang in there a bit more. Way back in the beginning of HT education, I used to go to this store all the time. It was a high end audio store. They had a lot of top notch gear. That is where I first realized that the sub I had back in the beginning(a definitive technology PF15) was really not as good as I thought it was, So, I started listening to other subs, I knew one of the salesman there pretty well so they would be just hang out and go from room to room. It was there that I heard subs that were much better then mine. One of them was a $9,999 Wilson Watch Dog sub. That sub was amazing for a 12in sub and 400 watt amp. I also heard a Dynaudio sub. But then I heard the JM Labs subs. I was really impressed. One of them was the Sub Utopia Be. That was a beast. It had a 1000 watt amp and 16in driver and was ported. It was so intense I once had it shaking their 22,000 sq ft building. But it was too much and the SW900 was way better then what I had so I bought that. Then, as I mentioned above, I started to want more. I got a hold of Mark. He assured me that the SubMersive would be worlds better then what I already had. Well, I can honestly say that for 1/3rd of the price I achieved the sonic and tactile performance of the $6,000 sub Utopia Be which up until that time, was the best sub I had EVER heard.

I just can't stress how much fun it is to watch a movie and see things shaking on the screen and get the same feeling in my room. If it is done right, there is no going back. Like I said, it's more then just shaking or rattling. It's that extra something that puts you more into the movie. That's how you have to look at it. Getting a "shaker" can be fun. But it is no substitute for a sub that can get there on it's on. I hope that explains it a little tongue.gif. At least from my end.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 8/2/12 at 5:05am
post #382 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Frank, the sub woofer I have is flat to single digits in my room. I can easily reach 10Hz with no problem and you know when that happens eek.gif. In other, much bigger rooms, other people have also shown graphs that indicate that my sub can reach into the single digits. At those frequencies, they are felt more then heard. That is where the monster shake and rumble comes into play. As far as just getting butt kickers, or something like the Crowson(which I have) I agree %100 that they are fun. But having something like that does not automatically negate the need for a sub that goes really low. You still want that sub to fill in the bottom octaves because no matter what, you still notice it, When you watch a movie like War of the Worlds, or Inception, Unstoppable you will feel what a sub that can go that low can do for the movie watching experience,

This may get long, but let me give you a few examples. First, with myself. My previous sub, before the SubMersive, was JM Labs a SW900. That was a ported sub that had a 13.13 in driver and it had a 400 watt amp. It was a mighty fine sub. It could get loud and shake the room with no problem. I even did my own chart of it.
SW900(with EQ).png 18k .png file


As you can see, it was not a bad sub. It was fairly flat in my room. Except for the room dips at 63 Hz and around 20Hz. Now that was not a max chart, that was an Eq'ed chart. Here is a max SPL chart, I will never do this again eek.gif

So, that was my previous sub. Like I said, it was a great sounding sub. But, it did not go super low. When I started talking with Mark he assured me that going from what I had, to the SubMersive would be a monumental change. Well, within the first 10 seconds of watching a movie with the SubMersive I could tell the difference. It went way lower than the SW900. That showed itself by just adding a "weight" to the soundtrack and effects. Now when I watch a movie that has serious bass it is a grand experience,

Mike I'm not questioning the sub from what I read about them there amazing but what I would like to know under 20hz we can't hear it. The thing is on the other forum there raving about how good there subs go down low but if you can't hear them what exactly does it do? I've experienced 17hz and all it did was shake the door( I guess that's by the wave of the bass who knows ) but I heard nothing.
post #383 of 899
Thread Starter 
It's simple. Tactile. That's it. You may not hear it but you can feel it. Many people love that feeling (including me). It just brings the movie experience even more into you room. But that does not mean that you HAVE to get it. The WOTW lightning and pod emerging scene are two that everyone brings up for good reason. There is bass in those parts that go way bellow 20Hz and even below 15Hz. If you have a sub that drops off at say 20Hz, you are missing all of that content. There are people who don't want to miss that content. That's all. If it feels strange or you just don't see the need for it that is fine. But there are many of us out here who just love that stuff and want to get all that we can.

Oh, and I know you were not questioning the sub. That was just my long winded explanation on why I wanted a sub that could do that and how I ended up with it smile.gif.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 8/2/12 at 5:26am
post #384 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

It's simple. Tactile. That's it. You may not hear it but you can feel it. Many people love that feeling (including me). It just brings the movie experience even more into you room. But that does not mean that you HAVE to get it. The WOTW pod lightning and pod emerging scene are two that everyone brings up for good reason. There is bass in those parts that go way bellow 20Hz and even below 15Hz. If you have a sub that drops off at say 20Hz, you are missing all of that content. There are people who don't want to miss that content. That's all. If it feels strange or you just don't see the need for it that is fine. But there are many of us out here who just love that stuff and want to get all that we can

That's fine mike Im just wanting to understand the reason Im not having a go ( its like two guys at a bar having a drink having a conversation ), hence why i mention it i don't want to offend anyone in the previous post before. Thank you for explaining it and that's all i needed to know.

I apologize if i offended you redface.gif
post #385 of 899
Thread Starter 
First off, no need to apologize at all. If I am coming off heavy handed, I don't mean to be smile.gif. We are cool cool.gif. Like I said, there are plenty of people who aren't into the real sub sonic stuff and that's fine. As for your system, you have 4 top quality sub. Pus your system is professionally calibrated. Plus you have top end gear all around. I am %100 confident that I would LOVE the way your entire system sounds including the bass. My reply was not meant to be in attack mode and if was then I am sorry for that. I agree. We are just two guys, half way around the world, talking about audio. Don't worry about offending me. You did not. Others have, but not you. You have an open invitation in my thread and you can ask any questions you like.
post #386 of 899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

First off, no need to apologize at all. If I am coming off heavy handed, I don't mean to be smile.gif. We are cool cool.gif. Like I said, there are plenty of people who aren't into the real sub sonic stuff and that's fine. As for your system, you have 4 top quality sub. Pus your system is professionally calibrated. Plus you have top end gear all around. I am %100 confident that I would LOVE the way your entire system sounds including the bass. My reply was not meant to be in attack mode and if was then I am sorry for that. I agree. We are just two guys, half way around the world, talking about audio. Don't worry about offending me. You did not. Others have, but not you. You have an open invitation in my thread and you can ask any questions you like.

Thats Ok Mike. I was never questioning your system I just wanted to get a better understanding of the experience people get, Id rather of asked you than people that I have never talked to before. I guess thats why were here in these forums to learn from each other. But im cool and thank you for allowing me to post on your thread still.
post #387 of 899
Thread Starter 
Still? Frank, you seem like a really cool guy and there is no way that I would "ban" you from my thread. These kind of discussions are great and I really enjoy talking about my system and why I choose the gear I did. Listen, I know I am probably looked at as being crazy by some people for having such a powerful sub in such a small room. If that's the case so be it. I am crazy tongue.gif. I have also learned a lot on these forums. That's what so great. If you have a question about something, chances are, someone else has an answer. I also knew you were not questioning my system. You just had questions about it and why the need for really deep bass. I did my best to explain it. But in no way did I take your question as a slam on my system.

The experience is just that physical sensation that people get. That is what you mainly get from the below 20Hz stuff. So again. let me just say it one more time. Your question is a valid one and did not offend me at all.
Edited by MIkeDuke - 8/2/12 at 11:17am
post #388 of 899
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

But you have the audio to compensate for that.wink.gif
I forgot to say thanks for that. If you can't have both, make one as good as you can biggrin.gif.
post #389 of 899
O
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

But you have the audio to compensate for that.wink.gif
I forgot to say thanks for that. If you can't have both, make one as good as you can biggrin.gif.

Spot on. smile.gif
post #390 of 899
Mike, some outstanding posts there brother, just outstanding cool.gif

A little fun recap;
Quote:
the 1027's sounded out of this world
Quote:
I really like my Focals. Frank can atest to how good they are as can Craig

You know, I'd love to hear those things. I've told you before, but I'd bet the HF of those high end tweeters is so, so fine. The Utopia lineage of the 1027s essentially assures us the critical mid-band and HF characteristics are nothing short of first rate. Even though there may be subtle differences, I'm sure the voicing is very similar, as would be the resolving power and over-all detail. Nice Mike, very nice.
Quote:
entire audio system is also dialed in just right

You're quite an astute observer, as evidenced by your countless and very entertaining contributions regarding your experiences.

---
Quote:
But you have the audio to compensate for that
Quote:
That's an understatement

It's such a pleasure to read about the system you've put together and optimized within your space. I know you enjoy discussing it, but it's truly a pleasure reading about your decisions and how each impacted your experience in your room. I especially enjoyed reading the acoustic treatment and measurement aspects of your journey.


Now, the reason I took the time to post, ... this post #381, the big long detailed post, .. man, an outstanding read and just a pleasure to take in. I'm familiar with the deep, deep infra of which you speak, so I can palpably sense the contentions you make. That deep pressurization adds a level of realism that's unmistakable and it's unattainable any other way.



Always a pleasure stopping by here. smile.gif
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