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3D on Samsung 1080p DLP with Mitsubishi 3DC-100S and no Gefen and no EDID update

post #1 of 77
1/26/11 at 11:55am
Thread Starter 
Samsung and Mitsubishi have collaborated and designed an adapter for use on the Samsung 3D DLP TVs without using the Gefen HDMI Detective and without updating the EDID on the Samsung TVs! I received this information from Mr. Dan Schinasi of Samsung via an e-mail reply (shown below) on 01/25/2011.

Dear Mr. Lewandowski,
A derivative adapter for Samsung DLP was developed in collaboration with Mitsubishi. (Model 3DC-100). A distribution network is being set-up but our expectation is that Samsungparts.com will offer it on their site in the next few weeks. Additional retailers TBA.
Best regards,
Dan Schinasi

Mitsubishi is currently (01/26/2011) selling the adapter in a kit called 3DC-100S 3D Starter Pack which comes with the 3D Signal Adapter, 3D Signal Adapter Remote Control, 2 pairs of Active Shutter 3D glasses, Emitter for 3D Glasses, Disney Blu-ray 3D Showcase Disc and One HDMI cable. The selling price is $449.00 and can be found at http://www.unisentvoffer.com/unisent...0S/details.htm .
The above web page comes from http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/accessories/3DC100S .

The 3DC-100S is advertised as such, "The Mitsubishi 3D Adapter converts most types of 3D signals into the signal type Mitsubishi 3D Ready TVs and Samsung 3D capable DLP TVs are designed to display. Most 3D Blu-ray players, 3D game consoles and cable and satellite boxes can be connected to a Mitsubishi 3D DLP Home Cinema TV and Samsung 3D capable DLP TVs with the adapter for an immersive 3D experience."

I am currently investigating whether or not Mitsubishi will be selling this adapter in a kit such as the 3DA-1, for those who already have glasses and emitter, etc.
Update 01/26: I just talked with Mitsubishi and they WILL be offering the Adapter from the 3DC-100S as a stand alone kit like the 3DA-1 from the 3DC-1000. They do not have a part number yet, but they will be offering it in the future!
Update 10/21: After waiting for 9 months for the stand alone adapter kit (using 3DA-100S adapter) I decided on 10/19 to e-mail Mitsubishi again, asking if the kit is available yet. Mitsubishi wrote, "It is not available separately and there're no plans at this time to sell it separately." Hmmm, first they say it will be available separately and then they say there are no plans to sell it separately. I guess Mits' is not immune to the action "say one thing but do another"! - End of update.

Thank you Samsung and Mitsubishi for responding to the cry of the Samsung 3D DLP owners!

Thank you PlumB (and all the rest) for showing how to use the 3DA-1 (from 3DC-1000) on the Samsung without the Gefen HDMI Detective.
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post #2 of 77
1/26/11 at 12:23pm
This is great news. I look forward to what you find out. I have an unopened 3DC-1000 as I intended to modify my 5087s EDID but haven't done it yet. I would love to buy a sammy compatible 3DA-1 but keep the emitter/glasses and sell the mits 3da-1. Nevertheless, great news indeed!
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post #3 of 77
1/26/11 at 1:37pm
This is... well, frankly unbelievable!

Someone needs to figure out how to make sure that there is a simple, reliable way to get these units pass surround and better audio out along with the checkerboard video for everyone with HDMI 1.3 receivers.

At how does $449 compare with the suggested retail for the 3DA-1? As everyone seems to be buying the 3DC-1000 for about $300, but as I am in Canada, the best price I can get is $400 shipped to me. I've got everything in place to do the EDID update, but hate to throw all that investment out to spend even more to get this samsung unit delivered.
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post #4 of 77
1/26/11 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmasterdude View Post
This is... well, frankly unbelievable!

Someone needs to figure out how to make sure that there is a simple, reliable way to get these units pass surround and better audio out along with the checkerboard video for everyone with HDMI 1.3 receivers.
I concur.
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post #5 of 77
1/26/11 at 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmasterdude View Post
This is... well, frankly unbelievable!

Someone needs to figure out how to make sure that there is a simple, reliable way to get these units pass surround and better audio out along with the checkerboard video for everyone with HDMI 1.3 receivers.

I guess you would still need a dual HDMI blu-ray player or more blu-ray players should support checkboard 3d format.

Hmm.. Perhaps, the firmware upgrade on the Sammy DLP may still be the best economical solution.
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post #6 of 77
1/26/11 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmasterdude View Post
Someone needs to figure out how to make sure that there is a simple, reliable way to get these units pass surround and better audio out along with the checkerboard video for everyone with HDMI 1.3 receivers.
Ditto here. This is not rocket science. The Panasonic units can pass the checkerboard signal through a 1.3 AVR and deliver lossless audio. Hoping they do this right.
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post #7 of 77
1/27/11 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac View Post

Hmm.. Perhaps, the firmware upgrade on the Sammy DLP may still be the best economical solution.

I expect this is the 'firmware' upgrade everyone was hoping for. I seriously doubt these TV's would have the hardware necessary to decode any of the new formats to checkerboard.
Even if there was enough processor to utilize software I think it would be way to slow to convert realtime. I'd love to be wrong though.
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post #8 of 77
1/27/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Ditto here. This is not rocket science. The Panasonic units can pass the checkerboard signal through a 1.3 AVR and deliver lossless audio. Hoping they do this right.

I think this converter needs to relax its checkerboard output test. It needs to behave more like a PS3 where once you have connected and enabled 3D you can put another device downstream (such as a passthrough receiver) and still have it output checkerboard. IE just do the test once to verify and configure to match the display hardware.

Maybe..... now that these units have been tested with samsung (or whatever) they could relax and have a mode or something that allows permanent set of checkerboard once enabled.
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post #9 of 77
1/27/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmasterdude View Post

I expect this is the 'firmware' upgrade everyone was hoping for. I seriously doubt these TV's would have the hardware necessary to decode any of the new formats to checkerboard.
Even if there was enough processor to utilize software I think it would be way to slow to convert realtime. I'd love to be wrong though.

It's believed that possibly the older Samsungs didn't have enough memory to hold a firmware that could do the conversion.
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post #10 of 77
1/27/11 at 1:43pm
The firmware update was just to change the EDID of the Samsung units to be compatible with the original Mits 3D converter. It was never designed to do what the latest Mits sets can do (internal decode the newer 3D formats). Samsung and Mitsubishi must have agreed this was an easier solution.
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post #11 of 77
1/28/11 at 4:56am
Mitsubishi Press Release on 3DC-100S

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=14557
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post #12 of 77
1/28/11 at 5:07am
Additional news articles:

http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-now-off...y-3d-tvs/3781/

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/28/n...d-capable-tvs/
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post #13 of 77
1/28/11 at 9:37am
My Samsung HL-T6187S is on the compatibility list & I'm thinking about buying this kit. The included glasses don't list the exact model though & I will need 1 extra pair. Will the generic Samsung 3d Glasses (like the SSG-220AR) work with my TV & this adapter kit? Also, in the fine print it says this kit may not work with all 3D sources. I assume it will work with my PS3 for 3D Blu-Rays?
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post #14 of 77
1/28/11 at 10:10am
The glasses in the kit are made by Samsung SSG-2100AB except they do not have the Samsung name -(they use a button battery which is good for about 40 hours) so other Samsung IR glasses should work. I have the original Mits adapter with a modified EDID and the PS3 3D works for movies and games. When you hook up the adapter you have to reset the video function on the PS3 using auto detect for it to realize it is hooked up to a 3D capable set. This procedure only has to be done once.
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post #15 of 77
1/28/11 at 10:34am
Thanks PaulGo for the info on the glasses and PS3 reset process. I've been very interested in 3D, but didn't wan't to shell out $$ for another new TV only a few years after purchasing my last Samsung. The kit price seems a little steep, but probably worth it for me to take the plunge. I'm pretty psyched to try this out.
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post #16 of 77
1/28/11 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCRisn View Post

Update 01/26: I just talked with Mitsubishi and they WILL be offering the Adapter from the 3DC-100S as a stand alone kit like the 3DA-1 from the 3DC-1000. They do not have a part number yet, but they will be offering it in the future!

I have the HLT-5689S, and have been waiting for some type of solution, but the price of the kit is a bit steep for me. Does the above statement indicate that I could buy the adapter separately, then buy different (cheaper) glasses? If so, any recommendations on other (cheaper) glasses?

Thanks.
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post #17 of 77
1/31/11 at 7:29am
Wow, if Samsung and Mits really did work together on this PaulGo basically had it right. Good call. Of course I haven't seen anything official yet that confirms Samsung had any part of this but have no reason to doubt it (the Mits press release doesn't mention any collaboration). What seems a little fishy is if Samsung was involved why there were so many models that weren't actually tested.

Next we'll see Mits creating an LED DLP with Samsung tech?
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post #18 of 77
2/18/11 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oktoberrust11 View Post

I have the HLT-5689S, and have been waiting for some type of solution, but the price of the kit is a bit steep for me. Does the above statement indicate that I could buy the adapter separately, then buy different (cheaper) glasses? If so, any recommendations on other (cheaper) glasses?

Thanks.

Has there been any movement on this? Anyone heard of the adapter itself coming out on it's own?
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post #19 of 77
2/19/11 at 1:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WWWestonC View Post

Has there been any movement on this? Anyone heard of the adapter itself coming out on it's own?

+1 on that. Mitsubishi missed their chance to sell me an expensive full msrp kit. I've already spent relatively big bucks on my panasonic player and DLP Link glasses. At this point the $100 adapter is pretty much an expensive splurge to be able to view a couple SBS MKVs.
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post #20 of 77
2/20/11 at 4:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCRisn View Post

The 3DC-100S is advertised as such, "The Mitsubishi 3D Adapter converts most types of 3D signals into the signal type Mitsubishi 3D Ready TVs and Samsung 3D capable DLP TVs are designed to display. Most 3D Blu-ray players, 3D game consoles and cable and satellite boxes can be connected to a Mitsubishi 3D DLP Home Cinema TV and Samsung 3D capable DLP TVs with the adapter for an immersive 3D experience."

This kit sounds perfect to me who has not previously bought any 3D glasses, or any converters.

But do I still need a checkerboard 3D blu-ray player like Panasonic? Will Oppo be compatible?
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post #21 of 77
2/20/11 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsscientist View Post

But do I still need a checkerboard 3D blu-ray player like Panasonic? Will Oppo be compatible?

You should not need a Panasonic player - I have a 5087 DLP, the full Mitsubishi kit, and both a PS3 & Sony S570 - 3D has been virtually flawless through both sources.
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post #22 of 77
2/20/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggestPapi View Post

You should not need a Panasonic player - I have a 5087 DLP, the full Mitsubishi kit, and both a PS3 & Sony S570 - 3D has been virtually flawless through both sources.

I have a Samsung DLP HL61A750. I use a 3DA-1 with a Gefen HDMI Detective wit the EDID of a Mitsubishi DLP to fool the 3DA-1 and the stupid EDID restrictions. Both the 3DA-1 and 3DC-100S both only have one HDMI input and output. If you have an HDMI 1.3 AVR it will usually not pass the newer 3D signals. Additionally, it is my understanding that Mitsubishi once again put ridiculous EDID restrictions on the 3DC-100s as well. What this means is that it is not compatible with most HDMI 1.3 AVRs unless you purchase a Gefen HDMI Detective and copy the EDID of your Samsung. Additionally, you may be limited to 2.0 audio through the 3DC-100S even if you use a Gefen and place the 3DC-100S upstream of your AVR.

In my setup I have my 3DA-1 / Gefen HDMI Detective upstream of my AVR and have my DirecTv DVR receiver hooked up to it. The audio through HDMI is limited to 2.0 since I used the EDID of an HDTV that was only 2.0 capable. I use a toslink cable to give me 5.1 audio from my DirecTv DVR and lose nothing since that is the best audio that DirecTv offers. I use a Panasonic DMP BDT-300 3D Blu-ray player hooked up directly to my HDMI 1.3 AVR. The audio and picture are perfect through my HDMI 1.3 AVR since the 3D Checkerboard Signal can pass through an HDMI 1.3 AVR with out any problems. Had I bought any other brand of 3D Blu-ray player then I would have been screwed.

If you have a 3D Capable HDMI 1.4 AVR then you can use the 3DC-100S downstream of your AVR and you can use your AVR as a switcher and then it does not matter what brand of 3D Blu-ray player you have. If you do not use an AVR then you can use an HDMI switcher an everything should work great. Mitsubishi really screwed many of use by placing EDID restrictions on its converters.

I generally recommend the Panasonic 3D Blu-ray players to owners of DLP HDTVs for the reasons listed above.
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post #23 of 77
2/20/11 at 2:43pm
Geaux, sorry to hear about your troubles. Since I do not have a 1.4 compatible AVR, I wonder if a twin-HDMI 3D player like the upcoming Panasonic BDT-310 or Oppo 93 would help in the following setup:

Using one HDMI connection from the player directly to AVR for its audio, and connect the other HDMI output from the player to the 3DC-100S before TV.
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post #24 of 77
2/20/11 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsscientist View Post
Geaux, sorry to hear about your troubles. Since I do not have a 1.4 compatible AVR, I wonder if a twin-HDMI 3D player like the upcoming Panasonic BDT-310 or Oppo 93 would help in the following setup:

Using one HDMI connection from the player directly to AVR for its audio, and connect the other HDMI output from the player to the 3DC-100S before TV.
Twin HDMI 3D Blu-ray players are made to be compatible with HDMI 1.3 AVRs. However, with the Oppo you would also need a 3D Checkerboard Converter while the Panasonic would not require one. I am assuming you have a DLP HDTV. Also with the Panasonic if you are outputting a 3D Checkerboard Signal then you do not need a twin HDMI unit. The 3D Checkerboard Video and Audio Signal will pass through an HDMI 1.3 AVR with no problems. I know this because that is the configuration that I am using with my Samsung DLP HDTV. If you have a newer non DLP 3D HDTV then the twin 3D Blu-ray players are great to use with your HDMI 1.3 AVR. Good Luck.
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post #25 of 77
2/21/11 at 10:33am
Mitsubishi 3DC-100S starter pack for Samsung HL72A650 tv with 1.4 HDMI cable to Panasonic DMP-BDT100 3D bluray works fine. Have Comcast Motorola DCX3400 3D cable box to view Comcast 3D content - appropriate connection for viewing is a mystery as I'm unable to figure out how to make it happen.
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post #26 of 77
2/21/11 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geaux Tigers View Post

Twin HDMI 3D Blu-ray players are made to be compatible with HDMI 1.3 AVRs. However, with the Oppo you would also need a 3D Checkerboard Converter while the Panasonic would not require one. I am assuming you have a DLP HDTV. Also with the Panasonic if you are outputting a 3D Checkerboard Signal then you do not need a twin HDMI unit. The 3D Checkerboard Video and Audio Signal will pass through an HDMI 1.3 AVR with no problems.

So I guess the bottom line is, if I have an older Samsung DLP, then getting a Panasonic over Oppo is essential because: no need 3D checkerboard converter.

Additionally, if I have an older HDMI 1.3 AVR and want to use it as switcher, the Panasonic will do passthrough without having to upgrade to 1.4 compatible AVR.
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post #27 of 77
2/21/11 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsscientist View Post

So I guess the bottom line is, if I have an older Samsung DLP, then getting a Panasonic over Oppo is essential because: no need 3D checkerboard converter.

Additionally, if I have an older HDMI 1.3 AVR and want to use it as switcher, the Panasonic will do passthrough without having to upgrade to 1.4 compatible AVR.

You are correct as to your understanding regarding the capabilities of the players and that is why I prefer the Panasonic. If I had an HDMI 1.4 AVR then it would not matter to me since I have a converter.
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post #28 of 77
2/24/11 at 9:32pm
I pass BR 3D with my Panny 350 through avr to Mits dlp without using converter.

My cable box sends over/under signals through my Denon 3808 (1.3) and they can be viewed on my Mits DLP 08 model tv as over/under (no 3D) picture. I have heard that cable boxes do not look for 3d tv's, which allows it to pass. So I am thinking I will put my Mits adapter after avr to convert this signal to checkerboard.

My main question is: will putting the Mits adapter after the avr affect any 2D signals or mess up the 3d signal from Panny or will it be ignored and bypassed when not needed?

Also, if I wanted to make my ps3 work in 3D, with a 1.3a avr, I would need another adapter and a EDID clone following it before avr, correct?

Or, at this point, would I run a switcher after the cable box and ps3 to geffen to avr (1.3a) and then to dlp?

I am doing my best to keep my 1.3a avr as my video selector and keep sound quality at the best possible.
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post #29 of 77
2/24/11 at 10:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by landonsdad View Post

I pass BR 3D with my Panny 350 through avr to Mits dlp without using converter.

My cable box sends over/under signals through my Denon 3808 (1.3) and they can be viewed on my Mits DLP 08 model tv as over/under (no 3D) picture. I have heard that cable boxes do not look for 3d tv's, which allows it to pass. So I am thinking I will put my Mits adapter after avr to convert this signal to checkerboard.

My main question is: will putting the Mits adapter after the avr affect any 2D signals or mess up the 3d signal from Panny or will it be ignored and bypassed when not needed?

Also, if I wanted to make my ps3 work in 3D, with a 1.3a avr, I would need another adapter and a EDID clone following it before avr, correct?

Or, at this point, would I run a switcher after the cable box and ps3 to geffen to avr (1.3a) and then to dlp?

I am doing my best to keep my 1.3a avr as my video selector and keep sound quality at the best possible.

You should be fine putting the adapter after your AVR and it should not affect 2D signals or 3D Checkerboard Signals from your Panasonic 3D Blu-ray Player. Good Luck.
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post #30 of 77
2/25/11 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by landonsdad View Post

Also, if I wanted to make my ps3 work in 3D, with a 1.3a avr, I would need another adapter and a EDID clone following it before avr, correct?

It depends on the AVR. On my Pioneer 1.3 AVR, I can use the PS3 for 3d games, but need to bypass it for 3d blu ray movies.
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