You shouldnt shop for an LCD HDTV without a loupe - Page 2

Do you actually take the tv out of the box, plug it in, and examine it with the loupe in the store? That's hard core.

Also, comparisons to computer chips or car engines aren't quite appropriate because 1.) by specifically stating the chip type in literature or on the case the manufacturer is making an explicit promise to the consumer and 2.) it's highly likely that an engine switch by an auto manufacturer would result in performance (speed, mpg, emissions, etc) that doEs not meet the advertised numbers for that car. Both cases result in products that do not meet the manufacturer's stated standards.

come to think of it, tires would be a better example as it's normal for auto manufacturers to change their oem suppliers within the same model. That said, if a switch in tires doesn't sound terribly alarming to you, then you probably have a good idea of how 95% of the buying public feels about the panels used in their TVs.

This thread could go on forever because those of us who KNOW we're right will never convince those of you who THINK you're right.

Depends, are you actually looking to buy a tv in the near future, or just window (panel) shopping?

Ridiculous scenario. The replacement you suggest is not within spec for that unit. Stop talking nonsense

Well if lg specifically stated that tv model xxxxxxx contained panel yyyyy then you're absolutely right and I stand corrected. That constitutes a breach of their responsibility.

On the other hand, a very quick scan of lg's website shows no reference to any specific panel type for their television specs (although they do make reference to viewing angle). Are you sure that the expectation that lg TVs contain a s-ips panel isn't more of a consumer assumption than an explicitly stated promise?

That said, this question doesn't detract from your original point. consumers should understand what they're getting as long as as it makes a meaningful difference to them. Otherwise caveat emptor and don't spend too much time pondering 'what could have been'.

On what grounds? You are not buying a specific type of panel. You are buying a specific brand of tv, made from various parts from varying companies. They are not advertising a specific panel, so what legal action could be taken? When you buy a pc, they are made up of various MBs, RAM chips, etc.....same models will have different makes. Some are better than others.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be informed, and if you need and desire a specific panel, more power to you, but that doesn't make it legally actionable because they are using different parts in the same models. And 99% of the population does not care. Doesn't make it better, right or wrong, it just is.

Look at the bright side, though. This thread may open up a whole new market for jeweler's loupes. Heck, I can see nationwide sales jumping 4 or 5 loupes per year.

^^

Nice!

It may spur a whole new industry of panel detectives, loupe calibrators and TV conspiracy fiction writers.

Find me one recent ad that shows the specific panel manufacturer.

This is a fairly entertaining discussion. Okay, here is my 2 cents:

I, for one, won't be louping a panel. Yes, I just made that up that word. You can attribute it to me. If I buy a set and take it home and it looks like crap, I'll take it back. I am not convinced that everything observed under 20x magnification makes all that much difference to the naked eye at 13 feet. I will stipulate to the idea that there are probably some things observed under a loupe that would affect viewing at 12ft. I would expect that there could be HUGE differences at 20x magnification that would be completely irrelevant at 13ft. I lay in bed at night knowing that there are microscopic mites crawling around. For the last 50 years, these have had no impact on my sleep. I try not to obsess about the microscopic world. I don't care if the electron in this atom or that is spinning this direction or that.

That said, if you want to go louping panels, more power to you. Maybe it keeps the set manufacturers honest and the quality of components up. If it increases your satisfaction with your purchase, who am I to argue?

Even if you could find any documentation, you will notice that all product literature has a clause stating "specifications are subject to change". Kinda kills your argument.

If you spend any time on the internet you will see these kind of posts from people that think they understand the law. They scream they are going to "take them to court" or better yet "take it to the Supreme Court" if they have to. Funny stuff.

Go to some legal websites and read up on the true definition and legal standards for fraud and you may be surprised. This doesn't fit that definition. "Bait and switch"? That's another case where you are confused about the definition of the term. Here is an example of bait and switch


http://consumerist.com/2007/04/what-...t-illegal.html

Before you toss around terms it's best to understand their meaning

Unfortunately there are enough people that don't know what to look for or just go with the "it is what it is" attitude and assume what they got is the only option. If it doesn't look as good to them at home as it did in the store, many will chalk it up to something other than a difference in the model. Because of this, nothing is likely to change.


Actually, I find that the salesmen generally know very little about the laws regarding advertising and sales. The companies that they work for should, though. The manufacturers sure do, and they're more than willing to look for and take advantage of loopholes. I sometimes get the impression that some of the loopholes were intentionally left in place, too.

well look at the computer monitors.
Dell has the worst record of shipping a new XXXXX model display to reviewers with the best panel and getting rave reviews but when XXXXX is sold it comes with a crap panel and cheap hardware.
Talk about a big screw you to the consumer.
This is NOT a lottery but fraud.

lottery is when they use x one month and run out or find y a cheaper alternative and again like the computer monitors sell an ISP panel and then swap in a TN and cut the price $10 to make it look like a sale and nothing on the box that ever says the EXACT thing you are getting..

I can only imagine the BS that is done with the tv's each and every week.
Its scary that the tv you see talked about here as GREAT ends up being well it would have been if you had got a rev1 or 2 but that 3 is junk

the only way to fix it is to force the companies to quit calling x a y when its not.

The most famous thing I ever saw about this was a pecan shortbread cookie package.
MAY SUBSTITUTE PEANUTS ON THE BACK OF THE WRAPPER IN VERY SMALL PRINT
isn't that a peanut shortbread cookie????????????



RANT START*****

And like everything in America now screw everyone for everything you can get, lie, cheat and steal your way to riches...ITS THE AMERICAN WAY.
And if its a foreign company doing it...why I am sure they have learned from the american companies how to bribe a politician...they are all for sale cheap

The notion of discounting different panels is ludicrous. Typical LCD buyers don't know about panel lotteries and they never will.

Your idea is well intentioned but totally unrealistic for all but about 2% of buyers. And as has already been pointed out, the companies selling LCD TVs have the right to use parts from a variety of sources.

Just like everything else in this country...even the food industry is falsely advertising "within the regulations"...just hire a bunch of lawyers and pass on the cost to the public!

"Many big-name blueberry products contain few or no blueberries at all, according to a report by Mike Adams (also known as "The Health Ranger") at Natural News. Kellogg's Frosted Mini Wheats Blueberry Muffin variety, for example, has no blueberries, according to Adams, just "blueberry flavored crunchies" — a mix of sugar, corn syrup, starch, hydrogenated oil, artificial flavors, and artificial food dyes. Total Blueberry Pomegranate cereal contains neither blueberries nor pomegranates. And Target blueberry bagels have blue bits that are actually sugary, cellulose gum concoctions"

"Kellogg's issued a statement saying..."are labeled in compliance with applicable laws and regulations." General Mills said its Total Blueberry Pomegranate cereal "contains blueberry flavoring, and the package communicates that the product is 'naturally and artificially flavored.'"

If these so called inferior panels are so bad then how does discounting them make sense? Who spends this kind of money knowing a product was compromised?

People don't know about different panels because the companies don't want them to, plain and simple.

Companies have the right to use parts from a variety of sources. That's not the main problem. The problem is that the type of part isn't consistent, so the performance isn't consistent.

I still remember buying an LG set when they were advertising S-IPS screens and shipping some of the sets with different screen types. It didn't take long for them to figure out that this wasn't a good move, so they removed the information on their site that mentioned the S-IPS screen. The problem is that the information was already out there and even being used by resellers.

A little off the main topic, but that explains what I've seen. I've noticed that some of the newer Sanyo sets looked more like LG sets than the older ones did. Perhaps they're moving up in the world, what with Panasonic taking full ownership of them and all.

So, it's a conspiracy.
I would agree that the companies involved have no incentive to disclose such matters. But the thing is, none of the panels can be proven to have design defects. So, the obsessive compulsive hobbiest can try his best to get the panel of his choice. The other 98% of buyers look at picture quality in a showroom and at the price and that's it.

The panels have to meet 2 criteria, size, and resolution. So, now companies will call a panel "55 inch class" because the panel is actually only 54.7 inches. They have to disclose 720P or 1080P. That's about it.

Then there is professional testing. Millions of people access professional testing to cut through the advertising sack. Thing is, we still live in a capitalist economy, despite the tea-baggers paranoia. Companies are constantly looking for less expensive ways to produce their products.

There are class-action law suits about all kinds of things. Why don't one of you with big bucks cough up some money and try to start a panel lottery class-action suit?

Man, when you're out of the "loupe" for a few hours trying to get some work done, all heck breaks loose on this thread.