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Pioneer LaserDisc / DVD thread

post #1 of 881
1/27/11 at 10:10am
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A general thread for people to discuss general LaserDisc topics, especially maintenance and repair issues.
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post #2 of 881
1/27/11 at 10:15am
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I have just got a 1993 Pioneer CLD-D702 and am thinking of replacing my CLD-D604 with it.

It's a couple years older, but has some cool features I like including a last frame freeze during side A/B flip.

Does anybody know what the difference is in the guts of the two beasts that might make the 604 better? All I can see is the 604 has Digital Coaxial output and an Attenuator. I'm not even sure what signal some out of the Digital Coax.

Smart People?
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post #3 of 881
1/27/11 at 10:32am
The 700 series is a significant step up from the 600 series. Assuming both machines are in equal shape, you should see a better picture from the 702. The chassis in the 604 is lighter duty, and not quite as rugged as the 702. However, the one significant advantage of the 604 is the AC3 output - though you'd need a demodulator to take advantage of it. I own a 704 and the Elite version of the 604 (CLD-59), and I can see the improvement in the picture on the 704. I suggest doing a comparison between the two and then make your decision, based on video and audio improvements.
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post #4 of 881
1/27/11 at 11:37am
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Thanks denvertrakker. I can't believe I didn't spot that! I don't have an AC3 demodulator at the moment, so I think I will make the swap. I am happy with the quality of the picture I get from the 604, so I'm sure this will make the most noticeable difference.

I am also just running RCA audio out to my cheap home theater receiver/DVD combo, so any great improvement in audio will be lost on me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by denvertrakker View Post

the one significant advantage of the 604 is the AC3 output - though you'd need a demodulator to take advantage of it.
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post #5 of 881
1/27/11 at 2:45pm
Actually the 704 is a step over the 702 in picture sharpness but both are a step over the 604. I've always considered the 704 the best bang for the buck with LD players though I personally prefer the CLD-97.

The only reason to use the optical output would be if your home theater combo had a better D/A conversion than the LD Player or if you had DTS 5.1 encoded LDs and wanted to get the 5.1 surround sound.

If the 702 is working good I'd use that over the 604. BTW, the 604 should be giving you a picture as you switch from A/B unless you turned that off, theater mode turns that off.
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post #6 of 881
2/23/11 at 9:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtis Bahr View Post

If the 702 is working good I'd use that over the 604.

Well here we go. I put some videos up on YouTube of what this unit is doing [or not doing]:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPQ_YS53zxQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsJj4fJAKpM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72irHwcfClc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1HwFbiDlnk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1myDIj7Ozk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtDFCe4yf1E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JuRNcBBiLI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87wzfo0vOv8

I can see right about where the cycle is hanging up, I'm just not sure what things are called or why they are doing what they are[n't] doing.

Thanks for any tips!

Guy

p.s. I have a CLD-D501 that is doing the same thing with the drawer not opening. I have greased that one but it still sticks half way up the spindle lift
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post #7 of 881
2/24/11 at 2:51pm
For the open issue the first thing I would do is with the top off and the door open I'd look inside underneath the drawer for the loading belt. Should be able to get to it with the drawer fully extended. Remove it and clean it, also clean the smaller pulley.

For the Side B issue the first thing to look at is the lubrication on the metal pin the pickup slides onto going into the turn mechanism. The back gear does the side change and then the side gear should hit the track and pull the pickup off the metal pin. Looks like it is not moving forward quick enough so the side B switch is not held locked as the pickup should easily grab the track to unload quickly leaving the turn mechanism fully up and locked. You or at an in between state. Powering off and back on causes the motors to force the pickup back to side A rest position.

Clean the load belt and see if there is some white grease in excess along the guide rail and put it on the turn mechanism pin. Also make sure it is aligned straight in line with the guide rail for normal playback.
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post #8 of 881
2/25/11 at 12:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtis Bahr View Post

...look inside underneath the drawer for the loading belt.

Found the belt and cleaned it and the capstan. I also took the opportunity to disassemble the top spindle lifter and re-grease the rails and hinges. So i figured while I was at it, I might as well disassemble the drawer path and the slider that opens the door & gate.

After a thorough cleaning an re-greasing, the whole mechanism worked like a Swiss clock! Problem one solved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtis Bahr View Post

For the Side B issue... Clean the load belt and see if there is some white grease in excess along the guide rail and put it on the turn mechanism pin.

I saw that this system was fairly isolated so, I took the whole top rail out. I was super careful not to snap the three wires to the little blue A/B switch. I popped that module out and tore the Ferris wheel apart. cleaned and re-greased that and lightly re-greased the pickup guide rails.

Then I carefully started to reassemble the A/B carriage and promptly snapped off the three wires right at the solder points. [see attached] So now...

A: I don't know what order they were in

B: I don't think I even have a solder gun, let alone know how to use it on wire that small...

This project just keeps sharpening that learning curve! By the time I am done with this, I will probably have my electrician's license and an engineering degree!
LL
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post #9 of 881
2/25/11 at 1:18pm
Did you snap any pictures of that area before you started to work on the unit? Perhaps you have that area pf the player on a video that you will permit you to look at some stop action / slow motion?

I have a CLD-D703, but the internals to my unit look way different than your unit.
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post #10 of 881
2/25/11 at 1:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Did you snap any pictures of that area before you started to work on the unit?

Well, if I knew then what I know now... I did not document this part. I also cannot seem to get the ribbon cables on the flipper carriage to stay in. I fond the little slot on the bottom and the snap-in clamp. I'm afraid to pull or push too hard on anything
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post #11 of 881
2/25/11 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyfreaks View Post

Found the belt and cleaned it and the capstan. I also took the opportunity to disassemble the top spindle lifter and re-grease the rails and hinges. So i figured while I was at it, I might as well disassemble the drawer path and the slider that opens the door & gate.

After a thorough cleaning an re-greasing, the whole mechanism worked like a Swiss clock! Problem one solved.



I saw that this system was fairly isolated so, I took the whole top rail out. I was super careful not to snap the three wires to the little blue A/B switch. I popped that module out and tore the Ferris wheel apart. cleaned and re-greased that and lightly re-greased the pickup guide rails.

Then I carefully started to reassemble the A/B carriage and promptly snapped off the three wires right at the solder points. [see attached] So now...

A: I don't know what order they were in

B: I don't think I even have a solder gun, let alone know how to use it on wire that small...

This project just keeps sharpening that learning curve! By the time I am done with this, I will probably have my electrician's license and an engineering degree!

This part is the A/B side switch to tell the electronics which side the pickup is on. For the ribbon cables I cannot remember that design 100% by memory but usually there are a couple tabs on the side and you pull out on both of those and it releases the locking bar. slide in the ribbon cable and then push both tabs back in.

Kurtis
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post #12 of 881
3/3/11 at 6:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Did you snap any pictures of that area before you started to work on the unit?

Yay! I took a chance that my photo of the broken wires showed their arrangement while attached.

I found a great A/V hacker video on how to solder tiny wires:

http://www.microflight.com/How-To-Solder

...although in this case, the wires are as tiny, probably only 7 strands, and the insulation was twice as thick as the diameter of the wire. I took a brand new razor blade and just rolled the wire against it. The jacket came off with a little tug.

I have to do some serious stress testing, but I think i rescued his unit.
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post #13 of 881
3/3/11 at 6:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtis Bahr View Post

slide in the ribbon cable and then push both tabs back in.

I figured out how to snap open the pressure catch, but the white ribbon cable just would not stay in. I would set it in there, snap the deal closed and it would just pop out. I was reluctant to put too much pressure on it, but I finally just kept wiggling it until it just slipped another 5mm into the connector.
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post #14 of 881
3/3/11 at 7:24am
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I found a non-working Pioneer LD-W1 on CraigsList. I was not enthusiastic about trying to dissect that beast, but I took a chance on it. I discovered a disc left in it, and the spindle rotater was crushing it. I was worried that even if I could get it out, the jam could have either broken gears or burnt out a motor ...especially cuz all the belts in this monster are toothed synthetic ones, driving geared wheels.

After some minor outpatient surgery, I was able to get the disc out through the rear. Amazingly, the drawers were still synchronized and operated normally including the drawer change function. I was stoked!

At first, the player would only play Side A and then reset to standby mode when selecting any other side. After I manually rotated the optics assembly a couple times, it finally made the transition from Side A to B. Even better, at the end of Side B, it successfully switched discs and played Side C without any help. From there, the C flip is just a repetition of the A:B.
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post #15 of 881
3/6/11 at 5:21pm
Quote:


LD-W1

Do these things have a single pickup for both discs, or two?
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post #16 of 881
3/8/11 at 4:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axatax View Post
Do these things have a single pickup for both discs, or two?
There is just one pickup assembly on a full-width rack that flips over while the disc is retracted from the play space. I will post some videos of it later.
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post #17 of 881
3/9/11 at 4:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toyfreaks View Post

There is just one pickup assembly on a full-width rack that flips over while the disc is retracted from the play space. I will post some videos of it later.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s6CviQcJf4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEEpvuJevPY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt4YFPZ5rBc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeX0-W_TFY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyNaZc5YZhE
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post #18 of 881
3/9/11 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyfreaks View Post


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s6CviQcJf4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEEpvuJevPY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt4YFPZ5rBc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeX0-W_TFY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyNaZc5YZhE

A nice player...
However, the side change really does take a shockingly long time.
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post #19 of 881
3/10/11 at 8:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxCatz View Post

A nice player...
However, the side change really does take a shockingly long time.

Yeah, 30 seconds exactly. Oddly, it doesn't take any longer to swap discs than it does to change sides.
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post #20 of 881
3/10/11 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyfreaks View Post
I have just got a 1993 Pioneer CLD-D702 and am thinking of replacing my CLD-D604 with it.

It's a couple years older, but has some cool features I like including a last frame freeze during side A/B flip.

Does anybody know what the difference is in the guts of the two beasts that might make the 604 better? All I can see is the 604 has Digital Coaxial output and an Attenuator. I'm not even sure what signal some out of the Digital Coax.

Smart People?
The CLD-D604 is a one touch karaoke player with a digital optical audio output NOT a coaxial digital output. It also has an AC-3 RF output and 1-bit DA converter/8-bit digital memory for special effects and a three line comb filter. Check:
http://www.laserdiscarchive.co.uk/la...r_cldd-604.htm
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post #21 of 881
3/10/11 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyfreaks View Post

Yeah, 30 seconds exactly. Oddly, it doesn't take any longer to swap discs than it does to change sides.

And, even more surprisingly, the mechanism appears to be simple, elegant and effective... one would think that it could complete the change much faster than it does. However, I also know that they're quite prone to problems, despite the fact that it appears they wouldn't be...
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post #22 of 881
3/11/11 at 7:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenyatto View Post

The CLD-D604 is a one touch karaoke player with a digital optical audio output NOT a coaxial digital output.

I transposed the two outputs in my brain. The 604 has the AC3, the 702 has the Digital Coaxial.
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post #23 of 881
3/11/11 at 7:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaxCatz View Post

And, even more surprisingly, the mechanism appears to be simple, elegant and effective... one would think that it could complete the change much faster than it does. However, I also know that they're quite prone to problems, despite the fact that it appears they wouldn't be...

I am doing a thorough re-grease on this model. We'll see if we can't speed that up a little.
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post #24 of 881
3/11/11 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by toyfreaks View Post

I transposed the two outputs in my brain. The 604 has the AC3, the 702 has the Digital Coaxial.

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post #25 of 881
3/11/11 at 10:48am
So far my Pioneer CLD-704 seems to be holding up.
I do have a question for LD users here.
What's the top 5 LD'S that you have, that you WILL NOT sell
because they are NOT on DVD'S (OFFICIALLY)?
I'll start it off.
1. Queensryche-Live In Tokyo 1985
2. ARMS Concert 1984 (Ronnie Layne Appeal For Arms)
3. Pete Townshend-Deep End Live 1985 (with David Gilmore
from Pink Floyd on Guitar)
4. Pink Floyd-Delicate Sound Of Thunder 1988 US VERSION
with MONEY on it, (even though there are ALOT of bootlegs
of this one on DVD and LD, MOST do NOT have the song MONEY on them)
5. Rush-A Show Of Hands (and YES, I KNOW it's ON DVD OFFICALLY,
However, I have the ORIGINAL LD version with the song
"Lock And Key" on it) Both the Bootleg and official DVD's do NOT have
this song on them. The LD that I have is the one with the
PURPLE label.
Now granted, I do have some Iron Maiden, Stryper, SteelHeart
LD's that would ALSO be in this catagory, but I wanted to keep
it to just 5 ld's.
So, lets see what you can come up with.
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post #26 of 881
3/11/11 at 5:24pm
Unless I am mistaken LD's brought us closer to the movie screen with superior video and sound technology of great movies from West Side story to Lion King. I'm just saying...
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post #27 of 881
3/11/11 at 7:52pm
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post #28 of 881
3/11/11 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by denvertrakker View Post


This thread is about laserdiscs and laserdisc players. Confucius did NOT have anything to do with Laserdiscs or laserdiscs players the last time I checked. Then again you'll never know about hidden smoking guns. I'm just saying...
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post #29 of 881
3/12/11 at 10:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisSwanson72 View Post

What's the top 5 LD'S that you have, that you WILL NOT sell because they are NOT on DVD?


That's what started me collecting. I had a search running on eBay for over 4 years before I found a copy of

1. Decline of Western Civilization (Penelope Spheeris has had a website up for years claiming a DVD release in the works)

2. THX-1138 (yes, George Lucas f#@%ed that one up too! Now I just have to find the UK CAV version)

3. Best of The Cutting Edge 1 & 2 (aren't there more of these out there somewhere? 1980s music videos are the awesomest!)

4. The Compleat Beatles (fully analog)

5. Star Wars Trilogy: Definitive Collection (even though this was technically re-released as the bonus discs in a DVD set, I believe they are from the same master and they don't come with the awesome coffee table book. My set is completely ROT FREE)
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post #30 of 881
3/15/11 at 11:31am
Hi guy's,

I purchased a CLD-97 LD player with very few hours that front has the face in near mint condition. The seller lives by Kurtis Bahr so was kind enough to drop it off with him so Kurtis could do the DNR mod and AC-3 mod. He also did some tweakeng on the inside.

I had pictures from the seller and the face looked fantastic. Unfortunately, the front feet arrived with black tape covering the silver in the front. When I pulled this tape off there was some thick yellow residue still covering the silver. Since the front silver feet are plastic there is no way to remove the residue without damaging the silver finish. The guy sent me a bunch of pictures but none actually showed the feet. He claims he didn't see it but who knows. The back feet are smaller so I can't swap them out.

I paid $500 plus mods and shipping, $800 total so I'm pretty pissed that the unit looks like it does. If I could do it over again I would not have purchased it.

Can one even purchase cld-97 replacement front feet?

Any advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Tom
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