Pioneer LaserDisc / DVD thread - Page 8

Hello everybody sorry if my post is lengthy and contains a few silly questions, but I can assure you I only ask because I have exhausted my Google abilities and am left unsure.

I have found a few sellers around my area and slightly outside whom I am interested in buying a player from, but I know that LD players vary very significantly in quality, and so I want to make the right decision. As a total newbie to LD players, I don't need a high-end player at first. Of course that may change in the next few ywars, but being recently (temporarily) unemployed, I need to keep my new hobby on a fairly strict budget.

While I've had a bit of luck finding the reported specs for these players, I know that you- the experts- will help me better understand the key differences. I know none will measure up to a 703/704 or one of the fancy Japanese players, but I just want to avoid crap.

A word about my setup I play on hooking up to both a 22 inch Philips flat-tube TV and a 42 inch Philips LCD TV both from the last 5 years. I also plan on connecting via optical to my Sony 5.1 receiver. However after looking at demodulator prices, I don't plan on buying one in the near future, nor do I have the budget to invest in DTS films based on the prices I'm seeing.

Below are the players I'm looking at, and any an all feedback is so very much appreciated! Thanks very much.

CLD-V2600- I know its one sided and requires a flip, I believe its heavy duty, a I know it lacks optical.

CLD-D604- This one I'm very curious about, can't find info about SNR or much else. The number suggests its decent, but I know that can be a red herring.

CLD-D406- I see this one is a 49dB rated player, which is below the 2600, but I would love to know how much of a difference that will make. I see that it is two series below the 604, but I believe the last number stands for the model year or some such, so perhaps its better than the 604?

Thanks again for ANY help!

Out of those three, I'd go for the 604. I own the Elite version - CLD-59 - and it's a thoroughly capable player, with autoflip, LegatoLink, AC3 capability and the like. It usually sells for appreciably less than the 704/79 series, with not much of a sacrifice in PQ.

My use will be for laserdisc. I will not be using the MUSE. So if I read this correct I can get an as good pic with an LD-S2? How about LD-S2 over a CLD-97? How about over a Runco LJRII

Also is anyone doing AC3 mods anymore?

With Rambo III the Duo input reports:
Signal Type: 480i 60 Hz (NTSC)
Color Space: YPbPr (BT .601)
Composite sync
Aspect Ratio: 1.78:1 - 1.78:1
Audio Source: (LPCM, 2x48 KHz

The Duo Output reports:
Output Format: 1080p 60 Hz
Frame Rate : 59.94 Hz
Color Space: YCbCr (BT.709, 36-bit)
Aspect Ratio: 16.9

Time permitting I may test with the S-Video output from the 702 to see differences if any.

I don't have a DVD version of Rambo III but watching the playback from 6 feet to a 1080p 55" TV it looks like DVD quality. The Duo VP is a heavyweight in the Video processing world.

Thanks for your input. Comments welcome.

Why double the frame rate?

Do not understand. The incoming is 60 Hz, the Duo outputs 60 Hz, actually 59.94 Hz since that what the TV expects.
No framerate doubling that I see.

Are we talking frames or fields ?

Pleas explain.

My bad was half asleep and read it wrong

The Runco LRJII is an improved Panasonic LX-900U, no support for parts. Picture is more comparable to the CLD-D704 and CLD-99. The Runco was a good machine, just not my favorite. It does have audiophile quality digital outputs as MSB did all the mods from the original Panasonic unit for Runco.

LD-S2 does have the lowest signal noise levels of all the US models but it is single sided. The CLD-97 is the lowest noise two sided US model. The CLD-95 also had a very good picture but the 97 is its replacement and is newer and does have updates like correct the Y/C time delay issue with the S-Video output in the 95. The newer players lower the noise level by use of DNR so if you don't mind the digital look then you can look at the newer players.

The advantage of the X0 over the S2 is the red laser in the X0. It is narrower so there is less chance of crosstalk noise in the picture and it does a better job handling discs with laser-rot. The S2 has to be carefully aligned to get the low crosstalk, crosstalk creates a noisier picture.

In my opinion, the S2 if you don't mind single sided playback or CLD-97 for two sided are the better machines for natural low noise not needing DNR. The X0 would be ultimate but a properly tuned S2 or 97 makes LD look really nice.

Kurtis

I do AC-3 mods but you need to write me at kbahr@comcast.net to discuss this

Thank you very much for the help. I think I'm gonna take your advise. Is $50 a fair price for the 604? An also if you don't mind what is the Legato Link? I did a quick search, but everything I've seen refers more to a line of upside down CD players or some such. What effect will this have for a LD player? Thanks again!

"Legato Link" is a feature of certain Pioneer DACs. It is quite irrelevant if you are using the digital audio outputs of the player, or using the analog audio outputs for analog audio. Opinion is divided as to whether it does anything particularly useful.

Yes, $50 is very reasonable for a 604, provided it's in proper operating condition. LegatoLink is a technology - also used by Onkyo, where it's called Vector Linear Shaping Circuitry - which supposedly gives a smoother conversion of the digital signal when using the internal DACs. If you're only using the digital out on the player and not the analog, it doesn't do a thing.

$50 is a very good price for a working CLD-D604.

Legato Link - It is in the processing before the DAC's. To me a quality built DAC section with multi-bit DAC's provide far more benefit than Legato Link which is supposed to extend the upper limit to improve the information we interpret above audio range but cannot hear. Then you also need better DAC's to reproduce that. The whole reason SACD and DVD-Audio came about. Higher sample rates and greater bandwidth. For me personally, waste of extra money. I'll spent that money on a CD player with better multi-bit DAC's and superior circuit design

Thanks for all the help everybody. I went ahead and got the 604, but ended up having to get it shipped because the seller was further away than I expected. Sadly I just got the unit today and it refuses to eject either the CD tray or the LD tray, instead it reports an E3 error. Googling hasn't really led me anywhere, except to the already obvious that there is some issue with the tray mechanism. I can tell by the sound that the motor itself is doing something, but the tray simply won't budge. I'm fairly savvy with tearing things apart if need be, but I want to know if anybody has a clue if this will be a manageable job that is worth avoiding the pain of returning the item and finding a replacement. Once again I ask the experts!

EDIT: 604 not 406

A working LD player shipped and now not working

This is why LD is dead to me !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Commonly with this series of unit, CLD-D504/604/505/605/406/606/Elite CLD-59 they use a plastic piece that holds the laser pickup movement motor to the pickup assembly. Any sharp hit can either break the tabs that keep the gears in place or the plastic piece breaks enough the motor breaks free. I replace the holder with the one used in the DVL series units when I work on these. A different plastic material and more durable. Wish you would have talked to me, I have a 406 I could have sold you.

Kurtis

Hey sorry corrected prior post, it was a 604. My fault. Ill try and locate this plastic bit- thanks Kurtis!

Hey there everyone.

I recently picked up a mint condition low-hours X0 in its original box, and while the image it produces is very clearly lower in noise and more accurate in terms of color reproduction, I've noticed something odd about the image that my X9 and S9 players don't exhibit.

For whatever reason, quite a few of my discs (both CLV and CAV) show vertical lines toward the right side of the frame. The left side of the frame seems to be clear of these lines, and it gets progressively worse as you look right. The lines are somewhat reminiscent of CRT scan lines, but in this case they're vertical and are spaced out much further. The problem is most apparent with red, orange, and yellow tones.

Sound familiar to anyone? Again, I've done side-by-side comparison with my X9 and S9, and the lines do not appear.

What are you talking about?

TLK

Maybe referring to how delicate they are to ship? For example, I've personally had many problems with the turn mechanics getting all wonky after shipping so b-side play doesn't work well, or at all.

So - guess what we did today - we actually watched a laser disc title on our HDTV home theater for the first time in I don't know how long!
I was playing around with the setup in anticipation of upgrading the TV to a newer model - which means it will apparently not have a S-VHS connection (which I have been using for the laser disc). I was experimenting with the setup permitting my receiver (Yamaha RX-V3900) to convert the input S-VHS signal from our Pioneer DVL-919 to HDMI 1080p out to the TV (Sharp 46" 1080p LCD). I use a Lexicon LDD-1 to process the audio signal to the receiver. I wanted to make sure I could retain the correct aspect ratio.
In the process - we got interested in the title I was using . . "While You Were Sleeping". I never replaced this LD with a DVD since it never came out in an anamorphic version - and it has never been offered in HD that I have seen. This is a movie we have always liked - the LD played perfectly - and we enjoyed it, proving that the quality of the film is all important in home theater enjoyment - followed by the PQ & AQ.

^As others will no doubt tell you, the yellow composite connection often provides a better signal, as LD is a composite format.

The composite of the 919 is just a recombined Y/C signal, like most other players equipped with S-Video output.

The LD format is composite. So the player needs to split it to y/c.

Players don't need to do it. There are players that don't, like old players without S-Video and the X0 (at least for its BNC output). It seems to merely be a cost-cutting measure as far as I'm aware.

Regardless, if you use the composite of the 919 you're just going to be watching a picture that's been Y/C filtered twice instead of once.

That sounds like ringing somewhere in the signal chain. What stages does your video output go through, & what kind of display device are you using? It's possible to misadjust a CRT so that the scanning beam velocity varies, due to ringing in the sweep circuits, which normally causes vertical lines on the left side of the screen, & most of the things I can think of would also cause lines to the left rather than the right, but if you give us an idea of what equipment you are using other than the player, we might be better able to help.

LD will look great on the Philips CRT.

+1.

Many late model players such as this derive the composite output from a recombined Y/C signal after DNR. Even the US CLD-99 has this design "flaw" (and I believe the much vaunted S9 as well). The automatic "default" choice of LD==composite is not applicable for this generation of hardware. This signal path is not defeatable without a hardware modification.

To add to my previous reply -- even players such as the S9 which incorporate the superior 3G Mitsubishi filter get this wrong. I don't know how the R7G handles this, but I think the X9 *ucks this up as well (based on the English Pioneer SM).