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Bethesda Build - Page 3

post #61 of 565
3/17/11 at 7:10am
I think this is one of those, "couldn't hurt" but is your subfloor mold resistant?
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post #62 of 565
3/17/11 at 7:20am
Anyone think the drywall strips would come in handy without Green Glue? It falls under 'Adding Mass', but I don't know how much good it'd do.
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post #63 of 565
3/17/11 at 7:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

1 1/4 for the first layer of drywall, check back after Friday for the verdict of what works best on the second layer. Randy, a single 1/2 inch sub-floor under tile would not be considered acceptable building practice for a stable base. I suspect it is at least 3/4 + whatever else they put under the tile. If you have any floor vents in the house you can lift out the vent cover and you should be able to see the edges of the sub-floor and check the dimensions.

Great idea! Another painfully simple, face palm moment.
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post #64 of 565
3/17/11 at 7:57am
Jon_B, it couldn't hurt
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post #65 of 565
3/17/11 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scl23enn4m3 View Post

Anyone think the drywall strips would come in handy without Green Glue? It falls under 'Adding Mass', but I don't know how much good it'd do.

I'm not sure, either. The idea is to remove the resonance in the subfloor, and drywall is also very resonant and does not appreciably damp the original subflooring. You would have added mass, but the mass is still quite capable of conducting vibration. A "mass-only" approach would be more effective if we were only dealing with airborne sound.
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post #66 of 565
3/18/11 at 6:00pm
Big progress today. Jesto's contractor dropped off a couple of workers who picked right up where we left off with the under-mount ceiling strips. Based on Jesto's instructions they had a good grasp of how to apply the GG but today was a good example of why it is always a good idea to "Snoopervise" your trades who may not have the same understanding of all the issues.

Jesto had to go to work to pay for the theater so I was the designated babysitter. As I worked on some other things in preparation for drywalling the theater I kept an eye on the crew. About 25% of the way through the second layer I noticed they put a really skimpy amount of GG on a panel and I asked why. They pointed to the bucket and said "all gone". So I went into the next room and brought in a second bucket. I assume that means they would have continued on putting up the second layer dry on 75% of the ceiling because they didn't realize we had more and probably were hoping they could skip the step.
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post #67 of 565
3/18/11 at 6:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Big progress today.

Big progress thanks to Big! Things definitely moved quickly today I believe this is what got done today - but Mr. Big please correct me if i'm wrong
  1. 2 layers of GG / DW up between the joists - actually starting to hear the difference already
  2. About 1/2 of the joists acoustically caulked as well
  3. Finalized demo of the previous walls on the outside of the framing
  4. Started the prep work for closing off the window
  5. Somewhat put the rack together (just a simple telco rack)

Pics

Look at those awesome double layers of GG/DW up between those joists - those workers really moved!


Rooms all clean, walls are framed, and just need to figure out the doors (we're gonna do the airlock thing i believe)

Here's the hitlist for the rest of the weekend:
  1. Install sub-panel
  2. Finalize and clean up the electrical lines for the theater - settled on 6 zones to work for a future Grafik Eye
  3. Install 4" Roxul mineral wool insulation between the joists over the long wall that's shared with the basement. This was Big's idea and basically serves two purposes. 1. Firestop 2. Lower level additional sound barrier
  4. Run the flexiduct for two supplies and one return - will try to photo-document this process as its basically Big's design and should work out really well
  5. Install insulation in the joists
  6. Install clips and channels

Also decided today to probably keep the outlets in the main wall so ordered a bunch of Putty Pads, and also decided we needed another pail of green glue after we saw how much we used for the ceiling. Thanks Ted!

Plan now is that if there is extra drywall or gg to go ahead and add an extra layer to the exterior of the rear wall

OK - have questions about the electrical
  1. I believe the Grafik Eye needs a 4-gang box - is this correct?
  2. Also - should i limit myself to 6 zones for the Grafik Eye?

that's all for now- once again - thanks Mr. Big for keeping an eye on things and moving things forward!
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post #68 of 565
3/18/11 at 6:42pm
Ow that would have sucked - and might not have been able to tell unless/until you made a cutout in a "dry" area, and noticed "hey, where's the cheese in my sandwich?!". Or noticed the way too many extra buckets at the end.

So are you taking numbers for who gets to borrow you next? ;-)
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post #69 of 565
3/18/11 at 6:57pm
Thread Starter 
One really big thing to think about if you choose to go as agressive as we are for ceiling sound suppression. You end up using A LOT of supplies.

Basically, in this situation, the two layers of drywall and glue on the ceiling are the equivalent of roughly a 33% addition to what we need for the rest of the room

here are the calculations:
Ceiling Suppression (Joist solution): 14x20x2 = 560sft

Without the joist work above
Walls: 2x(14x8)+2x(20x8)=544sft
Ceiling: 2x14x20=560sft
Total: 1004sft

So basically - when you're calculating gg / dw with this solution - it adds a bit of expense but i'm sure the pay off will be worth it

Another thing i didnt even think about was teh vast amount of acoustic caulk we would need to seal up the joists - basically - two rows of 14' linear feet for 14 joists - so 14x2x14=392 lft just for the joists

I believe its runnign one big tube fore each joist and a quarter

just something to keep in mind- and once again - the payoff should be worth it!
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post #70 of 565
3/18/11 at 8:57pm
If you are really good fitting the drywall you can get by with less caulk. We weren't and even the "drywall pros" although better still left some big gaps. A big factor is how straight your joists run. The pros measured the width at both ends of each 4 ft piece and cut each to fit. I was quite surprised how quickly the caulk disappeared. Although I swear I still have a half tube on my arms and head. Soap and water barely makes a dent - trust me.
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post #71 of 565
3/18/11 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

So are you taking numbers for who gets to borrow you next? ;-)

My rates are very reasonable, I am now licensed and insured. Send plane ticket.
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post #72 of 565
3/20/11 at 5:04am
Some highlights from yesterday:

One area of concern was these disappearing joist cavities above a beam heading away from the theater.





We weren't going to attempt to stuff with insulation or plug each area off with a drywall plug so we grabbed some 4 inch compressed ROXUL to build a "fiber wall" not that we expect 100% sound proofing but something to take the edge off, The stuff does have over a 1.0 NRC even at 125kHZ. After all we are building a Room within a Room with clips, channel, GG and 1 1/4 of drywall on ALL the walls and ceiling so what sound that makes it toward these cavities should already be mostly reduced.











We put metal sleeves on the flex duct to pass through the fiber wall. Similar approach will be used to bring the ducts through the drywall ceiling inside the soffit.



There used to be a window, we put a shade in the down position, some furring and then plywood. Insulation and framing to follow. Will get covered with drywall. Theater building is a family affair, that's Jesto's future brother-in-law playing with my impact driver. He liked it so much he was already talking about buying one.



Jesto and company got some clips and channel up, should finish today.

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post #73 of 565
3/20/11 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 
Another day of big progress
  1. Sub Panel is in and the majority of theater wiring is done - this is being done by a friend of mine that is actually an electrical engineer and is being done to "commercial standards"
  2. almost all the clips are in for the walls - one small problem - we're aobut 6 clips short for the walls - guess i'll be calling Ted first thing in the morning
  3. Most of the furring channel is in on the walls - just need to connect the strips now with the self-tapping screws
  4. HVAC is done, and working well thanks to Mr. Big
  5. I had a minor moment at Home Depot today trying to pick out recessed lights that we could run with electrical - gave up and bought little ceramic bulb holders for now

Here are some pics


Heres the flexiduct we ran across the theater for one of the supplies


This is the return line we ran to the utility closet


Sub-panel - ended up running a 60amp b/c thats the most we could pull without really rearranging the two 200amp boxes - we actually ran it to a 100amp sub panel because it has a lot more slots - but its a total of 60 amps- so far we've figured - 2 15amp lines for the lighting (1st line is for overheads - 2nd for accents), and 2 20amp lines for equipment (1st line for subwoofers and 2nd for eqiupment in the closet)


Furring Channels all in - at least for the walls - still need some small connectors, and silly me forgot we need 2 layers over the door - actually ran about 6 clips short

and....


conduit to the projector - YAY - next up - need to run the conduit into the room for the future runs through the soffit

We'll need to figure out how to get the majority of the A/V wiring, lighting, HVAC through the future soffits.

Oh - and one more pic of Mr. Big's ingenious work on the HVAC - it really is an elegant solution and looks awesome when you see all three of the holes (2 supplies / 1 return) through a "wall of roxul"


and another of the drywall under the joists


room is already getting quieter
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post #74 of 565
3/20/11 at 6:28pm
Looking good! Very jealous of your progress and your mentor!

You say it's getting quieter. Do you feel the drywall on the subfloor above was worth while? I just ordered my goodies from John and Ted the other day. The wife still thinks I'm wasting time and money.
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post #75 of 565
3/20/11 at 6:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by randy98mtu View Post

Looking good! Very jealous of your progress and your mentor!

You say it's getting quieter. Do you feel the drywall on the subfloor above was worth while? I just ordered my goodies from John and Ted the other day. The wife still thinks I'm wasting time and money.

Hi Randy - well its tough to say empirically -

but today after the majority of our helpers left - I did hear the baby crying from upstairs - it was much quieter than usual

Also - yesterday - we asked the wife to walk around on the living room above - it also seemed like less noise was coming down than before - and afterwards when asked if she was stomping on the floor her response was "no, I was jumping"

So thats where we are - of course the walls are all still open so it can only get better
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post #76 of 565
3/20/11 at 7:20pm
Man, you are in good hands. Theater 2.0 is ALWAYS better than theater 1.0, because of all the things you learned a few weeks too late to implement oin your build. Biggy has a lot of good experience, and I am sure your space is going to be awesome.

When's the meet?
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post #77 of 565
3/20/11 at 7:26pm
Sssshh! I haven't taught him the secret handshake yet. If he knew what was expected he might slow down. At the rate Jesto is marshaling his resources he will complete his theater in record time.
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post #78 of 565
3/20/11 at 7:44pm
Jesto here is an example of a 4 inch recessed fixture that is rated IC (in contact) and we should be able to fit it inside the soffit size you have in mind. Another thought about a way to get more light in the theater without sconces and in-ceiling cans would be to put some (3-4) of these 4 inch fixtures in the soffit over the screen, use the eyeball trims to aim at the screen and the light will bounce back into the room. Put that as zone 1, in your lighting plan. Double up the first two cans on the sides in zone 2 and the back on zone 3.

http://www.cooperlighting.com/specfi...CAT%20spec.pdf



For those pondering the lighting in this space Jesto is also planning a cornice molding rope light at the ceiling.
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post #79 of 565
3/20/11 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Jesto here is an example of a 4 inch recessed fixture that is rated IC (in contact) and we should be able to fit it inside the soffit size you have in mind. Another thought about a way to get more light in the theater without sconces and in-ceiling cans would be to put some (3-4) of these 4 inch fixtures in the soffit over the screen, use the eyeball trims to aim at the screen and the light will bounce back into the room. Put that as zone 1, in your lighting plan. Double up the first two cans on the sides in zone 2 and the back on zone 3.

http://www.cooperlighting.com/specfi...CAT%20spec.pdf



For those pondering the lighting in this space Jesto is also planning a cornice molding rope light at the ceiling.

can you put non-ic in the floor joist area as long as it's not touching insulation?

Thanks, Brad
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post #80 of 565
3/20/11 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_want_that View Post

can you put non-ic in the floor joist area as long as it's not touching insulation?

Thanks, Brad

Yup, you can. Code in my town is if the fixture isn't IC rated, insulation has to be at minimum 3" away from all sides.
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post #81 of 565
3/21/11 at 4:43am
But in the theater building world we like to stuff every hidden cavity with insulation to minimize potential resonances.
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post #82 of 565
3/21/11 at 8:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Jesto here is an example of a 4 inch recessed fixture that is rated IC (in contact) and we should be able to fit it inside the soffit size you have in mind. Another thought about a way to get more light in the theater without sconces and in-ceiling cans would be to put some (3-4) of these 4 inch fixtures in the soffit over the screen, use the eyeball trims to aim at the screen and the light will bounce back into the room. Put that as zone 1, in your lighting plan. Double up the first two cans on the sides in zone 2 and the back on zone 3.

As usual, I like the plan - maybe just blatantly copy brad's design from his pimped out garage (but without the ceiling lights?)

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post #83 of 565
3/21/11 at 10:26am
I previously asked Brad about those exact lights and they are stocked at Lowes/Home depot. They are 3 inch and not intended to be in contact with insulation. But if you leave sufficient gaps they should work. They use a "funky" bulb.

Looks like he used one every 2 feet.
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post #84 of 565
3/21/11 at 10:35am
Thread Starter 
definitely worth exploring - i wonder if it would make sense to put that MDF i have in the garage to use and make backer boxes if we go this route
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post #85 of 565
3/21/11 at 11:09am
I forget the exact spacing, I measured the distance from end to end on the wall, and divided by N, where N = number of fixtures (end fixtures get 1/2 the spacing). The bulbs are 50W GU10. I cut the insulation away around the fixtures several inches. They come in chrome or white, so you'll need to paint the trims if you want black.
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post #86 of 565
3/21/11 at 11:11am
Don't forget that we need some room for the "dead vent" set up in the soffit.

here is a version of the light at HD

http://www.homedepot.com/Lighting-Fa...atalogId=10053
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post #87 of 565
3/21/11 at 12:36pm
Thread Starter 
Brad - do you think the lights around the perimeter and a rope light in the soffit would be enough to light your theater?

or do you think the ceiling cans are necessary as well?
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post #88 of 565
3/21/11 at 2:10pm
Subscribed! Very nice job so far Jesto and Big..

You are flying....
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post #89 of 565
3/21/11 at 5:39pm
Thread Starter 
Carb

Come on over anytime - but be ready to swing a hammer - I dont think this build will ever be done with all that mr big has me thinking about
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post #90 of 565
3/21/11 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jesto View Post
Carb

Come on over anytime - but be ready to swing a hammer - I dont think this build will ever be done with all that mr big has me thinking about
LOL. Well, you certainly are in good hands.

About those 3" lights. I have them in my soffit on teh sides and use them as my screen lights. They are inexpensive (about $20), but the halogen bulbs that come with them put off a lot of heat. I need to replace the bulbs in mine with something that doesn't get as hot and that is dimmable.

Just something to consider.

CJ
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