Danley SH-50/SH-60 for dedicated Home Theater - Page 3

The real issue is not what to use, but what is the problem? There are certain things that can be "fixed" with eq, and other things that can't.

Offset drivers is one of the biggest things that plagues most loudspeaker designs. This is not a problem with the Danley products. So that is not something to be concerned with. All the FIR filters in the world cannot fix offset driver problems-except for a single listening position.

FIR filters do have some special properties to them, but they are not without their problems (signal delay for example).

They are not a "cure all"-even if you know how to use them properly.

There is no "magic pill" or box you can put in your system and it all start to "come together".

It really comes down to the tools available (products used in the job-measurement tools available and what you can see with them) and knowledge about both the measurement tool, the "processing tools", how sound reacts and interferes with itself and other objects and so forth.

Having all the best of everything does not mean that you will get great results. If you don't know what you are doing, then you could make it worse.

That is part of the whole idea behind the Danley products. We try to make the products as good as possible (amplitude/phase etc) right out of the box, so you don't have to apply a lot of corrective eq to get it to sound right.

Now aligning the various parts of a system together, level and so forth-that is pretty much straight forward and easy. Untill you get to the subwoofer part-and that may or may not be an issue-depending on the particular system.

THere are several that are smaller than the SM60. The SH100-SH mini-the SH micro for example.

All have different intended uses and applications.

I like to refer to the various products we offers as "tools". Meaning that they are not all designed to be a full range product that can be used for every application.

Some are better at some jobs than others. For example- I can give you a whole huge list that a SH50 is a lousy choice for and would not work well for.

But then there is a whole list that it works great for.

It is all aobut choosing the right tool for the job at hand. If you have a slotted screw, a phillips driver is not going to do it.

On the other hand if have a phillips screw head, a slotted driver "might" be able to kinda get the job done, but not as good as a phillips driver could.

Agreed. But sure worth a shot!

I'm on board for a DIY Synergy horn solution for Home Theater!

Looking forward to where this thread is heading.

Thanks for the video link!

always

I have been reading this thread with interest (especially given Tom and Ivan's articulate postings on the topic), and am getting a better appreciation of these types of speakers. Like many, I thought Danley, JTR, Seaton, etc. were "PA type" speakers that played loud at the expense of sound.

There are a few posts regarding stereo and the imagining provided by these speakers. With that in mind, are these speakers meant for a HT-type of environment or can they be used in the home? Size-wise they don't appear to be too large though the wedge geometry (and "industrial" finish) could be challenging to some. But how about plugging them into a good amp and source and using them as music speakers? Have people done that? Do they sound great (not just loud or "good")?

Don't mean to hijack this thread, so apologies in advance.

Tom,

That certainly explains it! I'm not the only one who's noticed, either; though I've been an avid fan of home theater for as long as I can remember (first verified instance was hearing Dances With Wolves in ProLogic in the early 90s as a five year old), friends who couldn't care less about speakers have made remarks about how it's changed. I'd love a movie night in the stadium - maybe something can be done about that.

It's funny, because I've wanted to hear Danley products of some sort since I first read about the DTS-20 several years ago, and now, without me knowing, I've been listening to your Jericho horns recently! While I don't think they would do too well in a dorm room (they'd rip the building to shreds), I'm putting away some cash to be able to afford something like a pair of SM-60Fs soon. It'll definitely be a move up from my roommate's "5.1 surround" system with it's stunning dynamics and imaging coming from 1-pound speakers with tweeters that buzz when playing at normal levels and midrange drivers that are four inches in diameter.

Thanks for your reply - I appreciate it. One of my favorite things about this forum is how easy it is to ask questions here and get direct responses about DSL/Seaton/JTR products. How many products are out there where that's true?

Best,
Ryan

I would vote for the SH69; a little more affordable (even before a theoretical but probably never happen kit form) and you have the advantage of horizontal orientation for 90 degree or vertical for 60 degree beam..

I guess we could settle for the SM60F, but the lower end of the SH69 is more desirable for those that like to cross things over at around 60Hz.

I would say that is one of the weaknesses of the otherwise amazing products in consumer HT duty. They excel at what they are designed for which is not consumer use. So, when placed in a HT you need the higher end models to get the necessary extension to use with a sub that is not localized by too high of a crossover point.

So the primary suitable candidates for the main/center duty in a HT setup are:
SH50
SH60
SH69
SH46
SM60F

Then affordability comes into play at some point as well. No doubt the SH50 is a monster, but can be cost prohibitive for most.
In my opinion the SH69 seems to be the sweet spot with balance in all areas to include size, weight, beam width, FR, and seemingly lower cost with the SM60F in close second.

While the origional design was not for home use-they work great for that.

The fact that the sound all comes from a single point is the whole idea behind them.

Yes other loudspeakers have sound that comes from sources that are only a couple of inches apart (and that is the whole problem), the resultant sound has several issues.

We have a good number of customers who have sold systems that cost many times what the Danley products do-because they liked the sound of the Danelys better. Yeah they don't look as "cool", but if you are interested in sound quality----------.

Yes the Danley products have a high sensitivity and high power handling (as compared to most HF products)-but this is a good thing.

For a given input "wattage" (yes you can onloy input voltage-but let's forget that for now), they will be louder. This means less strain on the amp (and you can get a louder sound if needed), less strain on the loudspeaker (which results is less distortion), and the less possibility you would ever damage them when cranking the sound.

So on the quieter stuff, you will have an increased dynamic range that is clearer.

You can get them in pretty much any finish you want to make them look better at home.

Think of the SH50 as studio reference monitor quality-without the high price tag (of typical studio monitors of that performance).

There is also the SM96 (for which data should be up on the website in a couple of days) which is 90x60 and in the price range of the SM60F.

Another couple of options for center channel are SH95 (for a smaller package cabient) and the SH100 (for a really wide coverage). Of course if you want really full range wide coverage-then the SH100B would be a good choice.

The 100B makes a great Left/right cabinet also.

Cool.

More options = good.
I forgot about the SM96.

link to: Discussion of Danley's in the home environment (very small room)

Take away point: a quality speaker design aiming for state-of-the-art performance and which reaches its design goals, is suitable for any environment where good sound is desired. The false distinction between pro audio and home audio, mainly exploited to create sales/marketing drivel, makes no sense at all if the criteria is simply good sound and plenty of it.

That the Danley design's were first introduced into the pro market brings the extra benefits of dynamics, power handling supporting high SPL peak levels and robust drivers and construction into the HT space at no additional cost.

The greater demand for dynamic range and SPL headroom which movie soundtracks bring to the HT environment have opened some people's eyes to which design choices and principles really must go into a high quality speaker.

It takes more than business-as-usual designs to take performance up a notch; it takes a consistent focus on the most important contributors to high quality sound reproduction. Solving the time/space coherence problem using multiple drivers and solving it in a way that does not sacrifice any other important measures of performance, that is the genius applied to the Synergy line.

All of the acoustic qualities which are required to make transducers create a sonic illusion good enough to fool the ear/brain begin with the coherence of a true point source and on that foundation Danley Sound Labs builds a mighty fortress of accurate, musical satisfaction.

Does anyone know the MSRP of the SM96?

The SM96 list price is 2839.00.

What is the MSRP of the SM69 ?

These list for $4,300 according to one of the danley dealers

There is no SM69. That was the origional name-but it was changed to the SM96.

The reason is that the number actually mean something and the first number is the horizontal dispertion and the second is the vertical.

It was figured that more people would use the SM96 in the horizontal positon than the vertical-so the numbers reflect that.

However due to the construction of the cabinet-you can take 2 of them and turn them vertical (invert one physically) and they will array very well-for a coverage of 120 wide by 90 tall.

I believe you are talking about the SH69 pricing and not the SM. They are different products.

I'd like a boarding pass too

I've started to develop a particular curiosity about the SM96. If I understand correctly(?), it can be oriented to produce a relatively wide (90 degree) horizontal dispersion pattern, which could work well as a center channel speaker in my theater.

Looking forward to additional info.


Tom

Ya, I am hoping the SM is significantly more affordable.

The following setup would make a great yet affordable 5.2 system for most people--

SM60F for front L and R, SM96 for center, a couple of SH100s for the rear, and a couple of the new Danley sub as stands for the SM60Fs (sub prototype as shown in post #7 by WilsonL below)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=20144690

Another more "affordable" solution for the surrounds is the SH Micro.

While not having the SPL capability of the SH100's (which is overkill (SPL wise) for most homes as a surround), they are very nice sounding and much smaller.

The current sub prototype you link to is going to have to change. The manufacturer stopped making the driver, and unless we commit to many more units per year than we would expect to sell, they won't "toolup" for us.

S0 we are going to have to look at a different driver and maybe a different design.

But that does not mean it is out of the question.

My mistake, I was actually asking about the SH69. A price tag of $4300 makes it more expensive than the SH50 doesn't it ?

I really like the Micros, they work great for surrounds. I would love it even more if I could wall mount them, maybe in a few months when I move!! As for now standing them up on their sides like a bookshelf speakers works quite well. They have a good hifi sound to them as well. After using an sh-100 as a center using a pair for surround duty would be wasted money, the micros perform quite well crossed over @ 70hz.

Forin

Yes it is a little bit more than the SH50. The reason is "time and materials".

While the loudspeaker driver cost is the same-there are more pieces of wood (to get the 12" woofers to fit properly in the horn), and the overall dimensions are larger (to get the 90° pattern), so this results in more labor in construction, more material (wood-glue-staples-finish) etc.

Hence the higher costs. It just costs more to make.

But the reason you choose one over the other is not for sonic reasons, but for coverage reasons. Each one is better than the other-for a specific coverage area.

Will it help if there is a collective chant;

KIT!
KIT!
KIT!
KIT!

Man, I'd love to try out a kit!