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Toroidal Linear vs Switch Mode Power Supply

post #1 of 14
1/31/11 at 3:23pm
Thread Starter 
ok, I still haven't purchased the new amps because I'm still stuck on this whole "Toroidal vs SMPS" dilemma... we're talking about a large PA sound system, 8 hornloaded subs, 8 dual-15s and 4 single-15's, running at full blast for 8+ hrs at a time...

built for DJ and EDM music to be played at indoor and outdoor venues, sometimes dirty warehouse power, sometimes huge genset split up through spider boxes, sometimes a nice club with proper wiring, gotta be ready for everything...

the big question (still) is - toroidal vs switching power supplies - and how do they perform under sagging line conditions... there are several schools of thought, some people believe in one technology, some swear by the other technology, and some are on the fence like me and just don't know which way to jump... wouldn't mind lightening up my racks, but don't want to do that at the expense of sound quality or volume...

I realize that amps don't work at 100% duty-cycle at all times, in fact, they don't at most times... however, what happens when there is that 30-second bass drop that the DJ eq'ed up ??? is it better to have a heavy-ass ol-school toroidal transformer that is storing all that current just waiting to be released - OR - is it better to have a light-weight new-age switcher efficiently drawing consistent power from the source ???

any other thoughts on the matter or useful links to other discussions?
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post #2 of 14
1/31/11 at 3:36pm
IMO PFC'd SMPS amps are THE only choice in very high power applications. What type of bass array are you trying to run?
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post #3 of 14
1/31/11 at 3:51pm
Dan, is there a particular 'PFC'd SMPS' type amp that you like or prefer? Also, are any of them relatively affordable?
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post #4 of 14
1/31/11 at 4:00pm
Thread Starter 
Dan, my subs are hornloaded, they will be stacked either all 8 side-by-side with mouthes against the floor, or v-plated in pairs or quads on each side of the stage (if there are 60+ feet in between to prevent phase cancelation)... so, WHY do you prefer SMPS over Toroids?

as far as a particular kind of SMPS, I've looked at quite a few amps currently available to general public, the top choices are Crown XTi and XLS, as well as QSC PLX, but they all seem to be outperformed by Peavey IPR, according to the measurements done on this forum, as well as statements from people on other forums...

but the question still remains...
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post #5 of 14
2/1/11 at 11:23am
Thread Starter 
this thread needed a little BUMP...
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post #6 of 14
2/1/11 at 1:02pm
Have you tried pro audio forums?

http://www.prosoundweb.com/forums
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post #7 of 14
2/1/11 at 2:58pm
Thread Starter 
yeah, I've had a bad experience on that forum a couple of years ago, everyone seemed to be snobs, and required your full name and stuff, I left cuz I didn't like the atmosphere... probably would be a good idea to give it another shot =) but I like you guys betterer =)
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post #8 of 14
2/1/11 at 6:44pm
I don't know about running with generators as I have never done that, but the place where I used to run sound had terrible wiring.
They had some of the Peavy IPR's and some of the QSC's in there and I liked them both.
I could see everything else in the place going dim for just a moment when the big nasty bass drops would hit and the music kept on going.

I could throw a good bit at those amps and not worry about anything, though I never had the amount of subs that you do.
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post #9 of 14
2/1/11 at 6:52pm
Sorry for the delay I got a tad distracted...

I like the PFC'd SMPS because the supplies are capable of pulling power from the mains in a very effective manner. The normal tranny based supply is very inefficient for a large portion of the mains 60Hz power cycle. I'd say take your bass array and series parallel all the cabs and run something BIG like the PL9 PFC/CBA9000. However you will absolutely need to run proper limiters and filtering, without them copper makes a nice green flame.... Purdy
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post #10 of 14
2/3/11 at 3:45am
Think of it this way, a linear power supply recharges 120 times per second, and only when the AC voltage is higher than the rail (so not a very big duty cycle). A smps recharges at over 100 thousand times per second and can run duty cycles up to 100%. For the same cost, you'll get a lighter and better power supply with the smps. Also, smps allows you to run pfc, which can dramatically reduce the size/cost of the generator.
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post #11 of 14
2/4/11 at 11:27am
Thread Starter 
so how do you know which SMPS has a PFC ???
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post #12 of 14
2/4/11 at 11:38am
I would certainly bet that it would be a noted feature of the amplifier. If it doesn't have one, I think you can add one externally. I know some Furman power conditioners had PFC on certain models.
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post #13 of 14
2/5/11 at 8:47am
Doing pfc outside the unit won't change the pf at the input to the unit, so you'll still need a bigger generator. Usually it's advertised when a pfc is being used, but you could always contact the company to find out. It'd be nice if the pf at full output became a standard spec in the datasheets.
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post #14 of 14
2/5/11 at 4:39pm
We all know about the problems that PA guys had using Carver amps with generators power decades ago, right?
Some SMPS units have warnings to not use them with inverters or generators.
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