Dark Souls... From Software's epic action-RPG - Page 12

just play it, its a great game you will miss out by not playing it, its way better than demons souls

Good to know.


Nice, but that doesn't really convince me. There are plenty of games that people think are great but that I don't like.

I guess I just feel like I was playing Demon's Souls "wrong," like I was missing something important. At a certain point, I felt like all it was was a souped-up Monster Hunter--grinding souls in order to craft better items. But judging by people's love for Demon's Souls (and Dark Souls) there's much more to it than that.

What am I missing, and does Dark Souls really improve on the formula in any substantial ways? I feel like it's a big time commitment, so I don't want to jump back in without feeling like I'll ultimately be rewarded for the effort.

In my opinion you will need a guide to use the game to the full (the wiki counts as a guide). Knowing where to go, upgrading weapons/armor/shields, upgrading your character, and summoning other characters can get confusing.

I'm 15 hours in and enjoy it, but it definitely doesn't top the joy I had in Demon Souls. I also think some of the many fps drops I've experienced are ridiculous.

For me, the primary appeal of Demon's Souls came from the atmosphere, the unique online elements, and the brutal realism of your physical capabilities. I agree that many of the areas weren't all that hard if you were extremely careful with your movements, but there were multiple exceptions to that, and most of the bosses were pretty brutal until you got really familiar with them.

I can't say that I ever explicitly ground for souls in that game -- if one area was too tough, I'd try another. And I almost never bought upgrade ore, because I'd get plenty from regular enemies. If you were 30 hours in and had only defeated 4 bosses, I'd say you probably were playing it wrong, because that suggests tons of grinding and/or excessive death (even by this game's standards). And if you only finished 4 of the game's 16+ areas, you only scratched the surface of what it had to offer.

Demon's Souls has loot and stats, but it's not about the loot and stats. Maybe that was the disconnect for you.

I'm only about 10 hours into Dark Souls so far, so I can't speak from a lot of experience there. It's very similar to the previous game so far, but is set up as a cleverly interconnected open world with checkpoints instead of levels, and more involved online features with differently aligned "covenant" factions. But if you didn't like Demon's Souls, you probably won't like Dark Souls either.

- Jer

This is all good news. I guess I really was playing it wrong. Felt a bit like I was beating my head against a rock, and if it was tough, I always assumed I just needed to grind it out until it got easy enough to pass.

I'd gotten through the first area of each world (all except the dungeon level), and in a couple I got through 2 or 3 (dragon castle and fire caves). And I thought I knew the game well enough to know to go somewhere else if something was too tough. But I'd hit a wall and started to grind. Maybe that means I wasn't as stuck as I thought I was?

In any effect, I guess I'll give the first game another go. I know Dark Souls isn't a direct sequel, but it sounds like everything that is good about Dark Souls is also good about Demon's Souls. So I may as well start there, yes?

It is just indescribably awesome, and i'm not going to go through all the reasons why. If you enjoy a challenging and deep experience with a few holy **** moments, then by all means get this. If you enjoy hand-holding and linear game play then this is not for you.

Again, thanks, but that's not really what I'm looking for. There are many incredibly challenging and deep games that I love (Cave shmups, for example), but that doesn't mean I would love the Souls games. Nor did I find Demon's Souls especially "hard." What I played of it required more patience than skill.

Regardless, it sounds like I'm ready to dive back in. Only question now is do I jump back into Demon's Souls (for the fourth time) or do I jump straight into Dark Souls?

First playthough of DS you really don't need to grind, unless you're going for completing the plat in the smallest time / min amount of playthroughs. Also shouldn't be worrying about Boss souls for weapons or magic, unless you want to plan out a character before hand.

You do want to find weapons and armor that are good for different locations. Upgrade along the paths that ultimately suit your character the best, since weapons usefulness scale dependent on stats and upgrades. The wiki's help quite a bit.

The #1 recommendation has always been to put down your soul sign and play a level a few times as a blue phantom, helping others beat the boss. The COOP aspect is invaluable.

That way you get souls to upgrade, while also figuring out the level design and how to best approach the bosses. Once you have it down, use body form to invite others to help you. Sure enemies are stronger, but the ability to split their attacks between 2-3 players helps immensely.

Half the fun is the huge world, COOP, and Survival horror aspects. The other is the really deep item and weapon scaling system.



Dark Souls is Demons Souls only bigger, but with a few balance issues and an online that is either glitched, or just harder to use. DS is definitely worth playing, but by the same token it's not heavy on story at all. It's about the experience, so you might find diving into DKS better since thats where everyone has moved to. Hard choice. DKS is a lot more forgiving with it's bonfire checkpoint system and levels that loop back to both the start, and each other, once you unlock shortcuts. The radial, move out from a central hub style of DS made it a tad harder IMO, even with the sublevel warps.

I grinded for so long, down in the wooded "soul farming" area, that when I finally went up against the Moonlight Butterfly, it only took 3 hits. Dead. LOL

Don't know why I was sweating that. Still having trouble from that damn wolf though. Think I get too greedy with the hits, when I should back away and regain some endurance. Soooooo hard to do that sometimes. Just want TO HIT THAT ENEMY!!!! Being a tank-like melee character, it's pretty hard to hang back. Seems like every boss has about the same thing going: get up close n behind them, and beat the pi55 outta them.

Thanks for the input. That's what I needed to hear. This was my thinking, too, since I figured that online is important. I know there are still folks playing Demon's Souls, but I'd guess that there's a much bigger population playing Dark Souls (and more beginners). But if Demon's Souls is really that good, I don't want to miss my chance to play through it before they finally shut the servers down for good. It is a hard choice.

It's strange. I've gone back and forth so many times on this series (losing two saves didn't help), but I really want to play it. There's nothing quite like the sense of exploration that I experienced in what I played of Demon's Souls, and defeating some of those early bosses was an incredible feeling. But it's almost like circumstance and willpower (or the lack thereof) keep getting the better of me.

Makes me want to play these games all the more, but at the same time feel totally overwhelmed by the prospect of starting from the beginning yet again. But listening to those folks talk about it on Joystiq just got me so pumped to give it another shot. Figure I should take advantage of the added motivation while it lasts, right?

If you're going to play one, play Dark Souls. Large population of people who are barely figuring out the game and you don't even need to worry about upgrading your weapons for a long time until you get a grasp of the game (which kind of bugs me). I also think this game is a bit easier due to the bonfires, but still fun and difficult moving through zelda-esque dungeons and playing some epic bosses. No need to play Demon's Souls for you, you tried and didn't like it so just move on to the latest version.

No need to gind either. Grinding to level up just puts you against more difficult invaders and may push you past the average soul level of souls who may help you. 17 hours in I'm only level 40, and feel too high. I just level up after boss fights and go from there. Easy peasy method.

So then do enemies scale like in the Elder Scrolls games?

I say, turn down the lights and the volume up and enjoy the experience. There are a lot more sounds to spook you in DkS than DS, although DS was a classic and unique boost to the dungeon crawling action genre. Where DS left off, DkS picks up and expands in slightly different ways.

You definitely don't have to grind. Some people have beaten the entire game without ever leveling up their character. Google for "soul level 1" if you're curious.


Yikes. 1-3 is one of the last levels you'd want to attempt. No wonder you were grinding...


It's worth it. My old 60GB PS3 went YLOD when I'd almost finished Demon's Souls, and I lost everything. I was furious, but after a few months' hiatus I started over again, and I wound up playing through the game 4 times and getting the platinum trophy. Great game.

- Jer

No, the AI characters only get boosted on subsequent playthroughs with the same character, but the player characters who invade you will be within a certain range of your own character's level, so if you grind you're inviting nastier competition.

- Jer

Super encouraging. I guess the lesson there is if I feel like I "have to" grind, I must be doing something wrong.


Yeah. There and the first Tower stage were driving me nuts. Guess I was going there too soon. Probably played one too many JRPGs and felt like if I was stuck I just needed to build up enough to power through it. When in fact it sounds like I was just missing something important in one of the other stages that would let me progress.


Awesome. Okay. You sold me. Thanks. Now the only "drag" is that I'm on vacation for the next week and won't be near my PS3 for a while.

I might also just jump to Dark Souls since that's where all the action is right now. Then come back to Demon's Souls if I'm still craving more. It won't feel "gimped" or anything by comparison, will it?

Yup, in DS and DKS the Dev allows you to go anywhere; but if you'll make it is another story. Everything is open (hehe, the long way) but the level of the enemies placed will teach you quickly if you;re really supposed to be there. Same goes with environmental and specific damage from enemies (poison, fire, ect). If you're having a tough time, chances are there's a weapon, shield, or item elsewhere in a different area that will help immensely once you find it. You can always grind and go through by brute force, but exploration is the intention.

(DS, a good walkthrough would have had you do it in this order 1-1, 1-2, 5-1, 3-1, 3-2 for starters, with a little variance on the last depending on starting character and items / resistances you picked up. 1-3 early on was suicide)

That said, if you have no humanity to lose, and you have very few souls, suicide runs into tough areas can sometime net you some goodies along the perimeter / start that can help, since any item pickups stay in your inventory, even with death.

I'm only level 37, and probably a little lower than most at this point, and have beat 3 major bosses and run both bells. I've been grinding a tad, but only because I want to try different weapons and different spells; which involves a lot of spending (this early on).

I'm eventually going to be a faith build once I up my endurance to 40 and vitality to 30 and am going with a lightning zweihander, divine claymore, and occult man-serpent heavysword. What weapons are you guys enjoying at the moment?

Ghosts suck! Got cursed and thought exploring that area would be good. I can two shot them whenever I can hit them. Trouble is half the time I wiff. They will be standing right in front of me, but somehow cant be hit. God forbid they strike though walls...

So...I let the two npc die fighting the gaping dragon...I'm guessing they are egone for good, how much am I going to miss out on?

Nope. They're hollowed phatoms. Their unhollowed versions are still out there somewhere.

As for me:


So last night I killed Gaping dragon about 10 times, got 100K+ souls, got an egg put on my head, got a poison cloud and toxic cloud (why didn't they just call it plague?), found out that bosses can't catch either (stupid), and gave away 15 humanity to the Daughter of Chaos. 15 to go to get the Chos firestorm.

Love this game.

Apparent Bleeding has been changed from a slow drain of heath to a Ripostes like damage sort of critical attack, though not nearly as powerful. I upgraded my thief's dagger to +5 to take on the crush(?) demon in my revisit to the asylum.

Kinda mad that the cloud pyromancies apparently only work on regular enemies. In DS, could have sworn that while some bosses were immune, others were susceptible.

I am using my Greatsword of Artorias, but really enjoying my lightning gargoyle tail axe +2 that thing can do some serious damage!

Also my divine butcher knife +5 and of course my lightning spear gets the most use.

I'm going to work on getting most of the soul weapons, made a cool scythe and the golem axe, also the spear from the dragon slayer guy, and the spider sword.

found a great spot to farm large titanite, down by the huge tree in blighttown there's a bonfire there and a ton of leeches that drop them.

Also just finished up the ghost ruins, that place is the WORST! Just wait till you drain the place and have to fight these stupid knights that eat your face! Tried the 4 kings boss last night, I think I can take em, just need to not be cursed and have liek 20 estus flasks

Ugh. Painted World is kicking my booty. Freaking wheeled skellies.

The guy who invaded me, the uber twink sent me a gloating PM. Wow, wish the XBL kiddies would stay off PSN. Joined another players game today who was invaded, another uber twink. Same sort of gear, casting some AE fire spell. Glad they play fair.

Yes. The popular scrub thing to do was/is to cast the slow down spell, wear the non-lock on ring, and use lightning weapon at low levels. But there are many new spell glitches being spread throughout the internet in an effort to make the glitches known so that they get patched...but all it really does is make the game miserable for those of us trying to play legit. Just keep pressing on.

There apparently a way to de-level also. Add that into the souls glitch, and you got some problems with lower levels running around with maxed out health and the weapons from further in on the game.

I hate Tomb of Giants and will never go back. If you haven't been yet, or have and just keep dying...I suggest you rescue the cleric in Darkroot Garden trapped in the golem behind the Hydra. She sells a Cast Light spell that makes Tombs much easier...which still isn't easy at all.

Regarding farming...I've only farmed for a few levels (I'm SL 77), and only then so that I can get a stat where it needs to be to use a spell, miracle, etc. I do occasionally grind souls to buy stuff, but that infrequently too. If you play the game, offer your assistance in boss fights, and just explore to find hero souls, you're going to have plenty of loot. Plus, leveling too quickly just makes the game easier, which I would argue makes it less enjoyable.

I'm not even going to tell you how many hours I've played this game...let's just say "a lot"...and it's amazing. The atmosphere isn't as depressing as DS, but I do think the game is better nonetheless. If you're on the fence, buy it.

A new patch is coming that will address the following:

-Fix "magic shield" bug where player was invulnerable
-Continuous use of magic bug
-Fog Ring non-locking effect
-Modify effects of slow-down miracle
-Matchmaking improvements

No one is sure of the details, but it's great some annoying aspects will be modified. Rumor is that weapon scaling will be looked at as well. Woohoo.

I didn't even know about the magic shield invincibility. I've heard it's actually the Great Magic Shield. I'll be taking advantage of it tonight!

Good. Because all anyone seems to use is lightning weapons. Not that I blame them. There's no real reason not to.