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The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 36

post #1051 of 1462
Wow, thanks, MM! Never seen that before. Will definitely need to do this next week when I get a spare few hours.
post #1052 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scoob5555 View Post

Wow, thanks, MM! Never seen that before. Will definitely need to do this next week when I get a spare few hours.

Like anything else, practice a bit. The Prevail requires thin paint, and you'll know when your there because it will deliver a fine Dusting spray. And don't try to "cover". Do repeated short, sweeping bursts that only barely finely coat the area, let dry, and repeat, expanding slightly out beyond the area to blend in the repair.

I've used it to repair some gastly damage, so lightly sanded finger smudges should be no issue at all.
post #1053 of 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Like anything else, practice a bit. The Prevail requires thin paint, and you'll know when your there because it will deliver a fine Dusting spray. And don't try to "cover". Do repeated short, sweeping bursts that only barely finely coat the area, let dry, and repeat, expanding slightly out beyond the area to blend in the repair.

I've used it to repair some gastly damage, so lightly sanded finger smudges should be no issue at all.

Hi MississippiMan

I need your advice, I'm getting a Panasonic AE8000

I'm looking to build a 130-135" DIY screen with the throw around 160"

White ceilings, maple colored glossy flooring, chocoloate brown wall on 1 side, cream colored wall and a window at the back, window can be covered, what SF do you recommend?

Or should I adjust to a smaller screen size? The throw is almost maxed out already at 160"
post #1054 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2013guy View Post

Hi MississippiMan

I need your advice, I'm getting a Panasonic AE8000

I'm looking to build a 130-135" DIY screen with the throw around 160"

White ceilings, maple colored glossy flooring, chocoloate brown wall on 1 side, cream colored wall and a window at the back, window can be covered, what SF do you recommend?

Or should I adjust to a smaller screen size? The throw is almost maxed out already at 160"

Hello 1213guy!

Welcome aboard DIY Screens, and the OSF v.2 Thread!

I'll address your comments and questions in order:

135" diagonal is very doable with the Panny 8K. Been there, done that myself. If you can go to 135" I suggest you do. I'm going on the assumption this will be a Drywall Screen. If I'm mistaken, relate that so some directions can be specifically steered toward such.

I suggest SF v2.5 3.0 if the reflective room surfaces cannot be mitigated and any real degree of Ambient Light Watching is expected. If not, then SF v2.5 2.0 to simply allow the P8K to achieve the deepest black levels on-screen as possible.

As far as the throw distance, for a 135" diagonal, the "Max" throw is 26+ feet, so your way under that. The minimum is 13.3', and you don't want to go that close to the low end. A Throw distance of between 14.5' and 16' is right where you want to be, and if possible, the shorter Throw distance listed is best to strive for.

You do not mention as to if your going to employ the Lens Memory feature to obtain a CIH in both 2.35:1 & 16:9 .....and specific additional PJ mounting considerations must be discussed / met to do so. If you are considering such, then it might best to pre-mount the PJ according to instructions, mark off the perimeter of the extreme width and height dimensions, the Bag the PJ and paint within those pre-marked dimensions. Doing so effectively eliminates any "Whoops" element once you hang the PJ and discover your adjustable parameters are too out of whack. However if 16:9 is your only intention, the above becomes unnecessary.

This is a good start, If you have any additional info that can quantify the process, relate away!
post #1055 of 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Hello 1213guy!

Welcome aboard DIY Screens, and the OSF v.2 Thread!

I'll address your comments and questions in order:

135" diagonal is very doable with the Panny 8K. Been there, done that myself. If you can go to 135" I suggest you do. I'm going on the assumption this will be a Drywall Screen. If I'm mistaken, relate that so some directions can be specifically steered toward such.

I suggest SF v2.5 3.0 if the reflective room surfaces cannot be mitigated and any real degree of Ambient Light Watching is expected. If not, then SF v2.5 2.0 to simply allow the P8K to achieve the deepest black levels on-screen as possible.

As far as the throw distance, for a 135" diagonal, the "Max" throw is 26+ feet, so your way under that. The minimum is 13.3', and you don't want to go that close to the low end. A Throw distance of between 14.5' and 16' is right where you want to be, and if possible, the shorter Throw distance listed is best to strive for.

You do not mention as to if your going to employ the Lens Memory feature to obtain a CIH in both 2.35:1 & 16:9 .....and specific additional PJ mounting considerations must be discussed / met to do so. If you are considering such, then it might best to pre-mount the PJ according to instructions, mark off the perimeter of the extreme width and height dimensions, the Bag the PJ and paint within those pre-marked dimensions. Doing so effectively eliminates any "Whoops" element once you hang the PJ and discover your adjustable parameters are too out of whack. However if 16:9 is your only intention, the above becomes unnecessary.

This is a good start, If you have any additional info that can quantify the process, relate away!

MM, thanks for quick response and thanks for the welcome!

I think I'll have to settle for a 130" 16:9 screen, the throw is pretty maxed out at 13' feet and some inches
because of the room length, although I will measure again

I was just back reading, and and I am looking at the images from middlevil and golitzbt, of their SFv2.5 3.0, and
my question is, isn't SF supposed to be varying shades of gray with a satin-y finish? Because it would
appear that what they have come up with is a beige/cream colored SF, with a satin finish

Or is that due to the flash/camera?

Anyway, going with your 3.0, I'll be back if I have any more questions

THANK YOU!
post #1056 of 1462
Thread Starter 
The nature of how the Flat and Satin paint and Poly components mix and blend, and how they "lay" when sprayed create a sheen that falls between a Satin and a Flat. many would call it a "Matte w/very light sheen".

However if a Flash is used it will almost always accentuate and semblance of sheen that exists, even if not apparent under normal projected light. You cannot effectively judge a screen's abilities (...or lack of....) by taking Flash Shots of a screen surface . Yes some do...but it is a incorrect and fruitless endeavor.
post #1057 of 1462
A macro flash or macro with very dim light will often alter the appearance
post #1058 of 1462
Hi there, I must say that after having read this and other threads on SF I am very excited about painting my own screen. At the moment I am using a DIY white fabric screen, which is not satisfactory. My problem, however, is sourcing the ingredients in Germany. All Liquitex products are available but not the Rustoleum Pearl, Minwax Polyurethane and Behr White. I gues I could substitute the latter with Liquitex Titanium white but for the others I have no idea. Is anybody with relevan experience reading this and willing to help? Can those items be shipped from the US?
Many thanks,
Jonas
post #1059 of 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

WereWolf84,

To preface the images below....specifically the difference between the really high gain versions of SF 6.0 and 7.0 as shown against SF 3.0 you have to consider the drawbacks of the higher gain versions as weighed against the more than respectable performance of the normally configured SF 3.0
Read here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1355246/absolute-proof-of-the-difference

MM, where's SF v2.5 3.0 in the pic above?

Given all the lighting, images on 8.0 is just FANTASTIC
post #1060 of 1462
Hi MM/pb_maxx,

I've just ordered my first projector - a Sony HW50.

Aiming for a 105-110" screen, projecting from 4.6m away, in eco mode.

I will be repainting the ceiling and immediate walls some shade of grey.

Primary use will be movies at night, but will also be playing the odd game or two where there's likely to be at least a bit of ambient light.

Curtains at the far end of the room aren't blackout, but they're not far off.

Would SF v2.5 2.0 be my best bet?

Are there any Australian (Brisbane) suppliers of Sintra or similar?

The quote I got for 4mm or 6mm Dibond was $184/275 per square meter, which comes out to about $850 for the 4mm in the required sheet size.

Cheers!
Edited by Spirit2 - 4/14/13 at 7:05pm
post #1061 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Yes....a SF v2.5 2.0 would be a great choice.

Almost any smooth plastic sheet will do. Last time I was in Perth, I had no issue sourcing 3mm Acrylic Mirrors.

Dibond is IMO overkill price -to- surface value-wise.
post #1062 of 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Yes....a SF v2.5 2.0 would be a great choice.

Almost any smooth plastic sheet will do. Last time I was in Perth, I had no issue sourcing 3mm Acrylic Mirrors.

Dibond is IMO overkill price -to- surface value-wise.

Fantastic.
Presumably clear acrylic would also do? This is much more reasonable at ~$230.

Now to just decide how I'm going to mount the thing.
Edited by Spirit2 - 4/14/13 at 9:07pm
post #1063 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spirit2 View Post

Fantastic.
Presumably clear acrylic would also do? This is much more reasonable at ~$230.

Clear acrylic would need to be primed on the front with a good white primer before the SF was applied. Mirrored Acrylic does not need priming, but it does not hurt to apply two light dusters of white primer to dampen the reflectivity of the Mirror a little. And there is this...using a Mirror ups the ante. Your making a "Light Fusion" screen....something that is itself very special.

Ask your plastic supplier for "6mm White Expanded Foam Sheeting" commonly used by sign makers. With that description you might get lucky.
Quote:
Now to just decide how I'm going to mount the thing.

No real issues there, once you make a final decision as to the substrate. The thinner (3mm) sheets are actually harder to deal with than are the 6mm sheets, and using a Foam Board instead of Acrylic allows for no need for any "backer board" because you can have it cut 2" too big on all sides and then simply screw it to the wall using those extra inches, and then covering up the screw heads with Trim. It helps a lot if one does not have to worry about having a screen semi-permanently mounted to a wall. Portability does / will add to the complexity of the build.
post #1064 of 1462
Sorry in case I missed this but is there a recommendation on the SF 2.5 paint volume required per square foot screen to be painted?
Many thanks in advance!
post #1065 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloth0815 View Post

Sorry in case I missed this but is there a recommendation on the SF 2.5 paint volume required per square foot screen to be painted?
Many thanks in advance!

No set volume. Use light Dusters until full and even coverage os obtained.
post #1066 of 1462
And the resulting amount from the instructions on page 1 will be enough for a 100-120 inch screen?
post #1067 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloth0815 View Post

And the resulting amount from the instructions on page 1 will be enough for a 100-120 inch screen?

Absolutely, and with at least 8 ounces remaining for after-project touch ups or repairs.
post #1068 of 1462
MM could you please give us the most common causes of splatter when spraying? I do recall something about to thick mix, bubbles in the mix and/or not enough air/pressure. smile.gif
post #1069 of 1462
Still trying to source Minwax Polycrylic and Rustoleum in Germany. Two questions:
1. Can I take those on a plane? A friend is visiting the US and may be willing to get those for me.
2. If I replace the Behr with Liquitex white would I only anjust the volume to 8 oz or do I have to change anything else?

Many thanks in advance. I am getting excited about this and am already planning the hanging and paint booth.
post #1070 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rengep View Post

MM could you please give us the most common causes of splatter when spraying? I do recall something about to thick mix, bubbles in the mix and/or not enough air/pressure. smile.gif
The sound of paint splattering onto a wall must of woke me up.

The are three main reasons for paint to splatter:

1. The paint is too "loose" and it is delivered to fast through the nozzle. let paint stand uncovered for 2-3 hours then re-stir / strain

2. The Nozzle is too large for the job, owing to the fact the paint must be thinned. 2,0 mm is the largest....1.5 mm is the best balanced sized.

3. The Gun itself is getting too much air from without mixing with the pressurized flow, causing sputtering. All assemblies must be tight...Paint pot lid, Nozzle ring

4. Too thick paint used with too small a Nozzle creates a thinner type Splatter, a very light dusting w/larger drops mixed in....if the paint exits the Gun at all.
post #1071 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloth0815 View Post

Still trying to source Minwax Polycrylic and Rustoleum in Germany. Two questions:
1. Can I take those on a plane? A friend is visiting the US and may be willing to get those for me.
2. If I replace the Behr with Liquitex white would I only anjust the volume to 8 oz or do I have to change anything else?

Many thanks in advance. I am getting excited about this and am already planning the hanging and paint booth.

Got your Pm last night just before I fell out. Just returned from Denver where my only remaining "Single Son" tied the knot. 3 for 3 ain't bad!

It is problematical at best. In Checked Luggage, with each container plainly marked "Water based Artist Supplies", it's a toss-up between willing / over zealous TSA agents, and your own Customs Agents (...what the hell is THIS!!!...). If you make it through to Germany without getting inspected....probability becomes high.

The Poly can be substituted for any clear Satin or Matte water-based Polyurethane Floor Finish. best to source that locally. Shipping the Rustoleum or even a gallon of a complete mix via USPS International Priority Flat Rate has never resulted seizure, even when shipped to locations where the Customs laws are truly Draconian.
post #1072 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barratt2rika View Post

since I will have the right stuff in the house for both recipes, will one be better than the other?

Clarify please. Relate your system needs, location specifications (Room - Lighting - colors ) and PJ being used and it's Throw distance. This is only your 3rd post with none on this Forum, so I have nothing to judge by.

BTW...welcome aboard ! Have you been lurking unregistered? If not, what steered you to AVS's DIY Screen Forum?
post #1073 of 1462
Quote:
The Poly can be substituted for any clear Satin or Matte water-based Polyurethane Floor Finish. best to source that locally. Shipping the Rustoleum or even a gallon of a complete mix via USPS International Priority Flat Rate has never resulted seizure, even when shipped to locations where the Customs laws are truly Draconian.

Thank you MM! Are there any other required properties for the polyurethane such as UV stability? How would you suggest I would assess how much to add?
In terms of shipping from the US I guess that would probably about double the price. Is that correct? You seem to have experience with that. Since I do not get around the Rustoleum it might make sense to have it all shipped from the US. What would you do?

Best,
Jonas
post #1074 of 1462
Hello MM,

I've been lurking in this forum on and off for the past few years, but it finally looks like I might finally be getting a projector. And so for the past week or so, I've been reading all I can in these forums and one thing I can't find the answer to is why would I use a Mirror to paint the SF mix on rather than the Sintra or a similar material? I know that the mirror is reflective, but wouldn't spraying it with the paint mixture cover it up? What am I not getting?

Also is the extra expense for the mirror worth it? I know that's kind of a subjective question, but I'd still appreciate your opinion.

Thanks.
post #1075 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sloth0815 View Post

Thank you MM! Are there any other required properties for the polyurethane such as UV stability? How would you suggest I would assess how much to add?
In terms of shipping from the US I guess that would probably about double the price. Is that correct? You seem to have experience with that. Since I do not get around the Rustoleum it might make sense to have it all shipped from the US. What would you do?

Best,
Jonas

Quantity used remains the same. UV properties on most Floor Finishes are pretty adequate, and in any case, unless you have intense sunlight falling on the screen even a minority of time, you should never have any concern. There has been talk elsewhere about the potential for "Yellowing" over time, but it's really quite unsubstantiated, and obviously off base since the amount of Poly used in the mix is actually less than 1/3rd the total volume of the mix...and it's watered down at that.

Yes, shipping can be a considerable added expense, even using the least expensive method...which most vendors seem to "NOT" use.
post #1076 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschnare View Post

Hello MM,

I've been lurking in this forum on and off for the past few years, but it finally looks like I might finally be getting a projector. And so for the past week or so, I've been reading all I can in these forums and one thing I can't find the answer to is why would I use a Mirror to paint the SF mix on rather than the Sintra or a similar material? I know that the mirror is reflective, but wouldn't spraying it with the paint mixture cover it up? What am I not getting?

Also is the extra expense for the mirror worth it? I know that's kind of a subjective question, but I'd still appreciate your opinion.

Thanks.

Originally, "Light Fusion" was designed to reclaim light lost through absorption. Such light is greatly attenuated passing thru even a Translucent medium, so the return of such light to the surface, via such a short space between the front and rear reflective surfaces (1/8") resulted in a greatly improved image with considerable depth of field as well.

These days, what with improvements made to the original SF paint, and the lack of availability of larger mirrors (5' x 10'), I seldom advocate the use of Mirrored Light Fusion unless the needs dictate using a VERY DARK Gray surface. Then absolutely, Light Fusion makes a CONSIDERABLE difference. With the SF surface coating being so much darker, it actually can go on "thinner", therein enhancing the potential for Light Fusion to do what it does best. Blacks are absolutely obsidian-like, while whites seem to have lost none of their brilliance.

I personally have done many LF screens, and not a one of them but showed results that no "Static" singular surface DIY screen could. But the new SF paints on Sintra come awfully close, and the advent of all the spectacular new higher performing PJs only makes it all..."All Good'er"
post #1077 of 1462
Thanks for the reply, that makes sense now. I'll probably end up using a manual pull down screen to paint on anyway since it will have to hang from the ceiling in front of the mantle, but I still needed to understand.
post #1078 of 1462
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschnare View Post

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense now. I'll probably end up using a manual pull down screen to paint on anyway since it will have to hang from the ceiling in front of the mantle, but I still needed to understand.

Try hard to justify paying for / using a Tab Tensioned variety.

http://www.simplylowprice.com/category_s/267.htm?searching=Y&sort=5&cat=267&f-Electric%20Screen=30&show=40&page=1&f-Tab%20Tension%20Electric%20Screens%2016:9=156

Well worth the difference in price as you not only get a very nice, high gain surface (1.4) to paint upon, but you also are virtually assured of the screen ALWAYS remaining "Flat".

Worst case, many have painted inexpensive manuals and have been satisfied with the end results.
post #1079 of 1462
I'll have to keep that in mind. Thanks!
post #1080 of 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Clear acrylic would need to be primed on the front with a good white primer before the SF was applied. Mirrored Acrylic does not need priming, but it does not hurt to apply two light dusters of white primer to dampen the reflectivity of the Mirror a little. And there is this...using a Mirror ups the ante. Your making a "Light Fusion" screen....something that is itself very special.

Ask your plastic supplier for "6mm White Expanded Foam Sheeting" commonly used by sign makers. With that description you might get lucky.
No real issues there, once you make a final decision as to the substrate. The thinner (3mm) sheets are actually harder to deal with than are the 6mm sheets, and using a Foam Board instead of Acrylic allows for no need for any "backer board" because you can have it cut 2" too big on all sides and then simply screw it to the wall using those extra inches, and then covering up the screw heads with Trim. It helps a lot if one does not have to worry about having a screen semi-permanently mounted to a wall. Portability does / will add to the complexity of the build.
Thanks!
Acrylic mirror seems to only be available in a maximum size of 48x96", which is just too small. Searching for foam PVC sheet produced some viable results. $147 for a 6mm white 3050x2030 sheet of foamed PVC, shipped overnight smile.gif
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