Battlefield 3 - Page 207

Meh I think its hard to comment on both sides until you've been in an air vehicle for many hours and can use it effectively and not just fly around.

Compare it to being in a tank, and coming up on a flag or being at an area where the enemy has a tank spawn. You are going to either A) get a teamate to take it B) Destroy it or at the minimum C) put a few shells in it to soften it up. Frankly if you don't the odds that you are going to be surprised and killed by it are pretty high. As easy as it is for you to turn your turret and fire on an unoccupied tank, its just as easy for the jet to go out for a run, hit their plane(s) on the runway and come in for a run. You aren't going to let a threat live that can end your run short. Choppers are a little different, the only time I ever spawn kill the other helo is if they have done it to me. It's just too far out of the way. If you are getting spawn killed by the enemy helo well its your fault to begin with. Its extremely easy to chase them off.

100% agree here

To me, spawn trapping always meant pushing the enemy back into their spawn and just killing them as soon as they leave or try to escape. If a team is spawn trapped then they're just far worse than the other team and one might as well complain that "it's unfair because their team is better than our's" as if that was an excuse, not an admission of failure.

Spawn killing, I consider cheap and relatively skilless (but undeniably funny occasionally). I'd say spawn killing is when you know, almost exactly, where somebody is going to spawn and you train your sights on that area. A few of us will remember a valparaiso game where we literally had the defenders down to 1 spawn spot and a few would repeatedly stab them the second they came in. Now THAT is spawn killing.

But it's not black and white. Is it cheap to spawnkill vehicles with a jet? Hard to argue against that...but is it useful? VERY. Can you counter it? Almost definitely, with some teamwork. The point about the spawn beacon is well made too. That's not cheap because they have a choice of where to spawn. If they're dumb enough to be killed more than once at the beacon then they deserve it ten fold.

Both spawn trapping and spawn killing was far easier in BC2 and anyone who thinks BF3 is bad needs to play some Atacama offence when the defence (Operator) steals their chopper.

Don't worry, I didn't take any offense .


1. Get good in a jet.
2. Try taking down another equally good pilot.
3. Get no points.

Seriously I've had matches where the enemy pilot and I would fly in a circle the entire time. The problem is aside from braking to keep speed in the 280-300 region, there's NOTHING you can do about it. Your choices are to break off (enemy follows you and kills you) or bail out (suicide at worst) and let the enemy jet decimate the ground. This isn't as big of a deal in Conquest since the jets' cannons don't do much against ground vehicles.

Choppers spawnkilling - to me that's a bigger problem. In the jet, all I'm taking out is their jet. With choppers, they take out anything that moves, and typically steal the other team's chopper.

And Bar0n is exactly right - games in BF3 are nowhere near as "spawnkill/trap" friendly as BC2. I was on the opposite team of that Valpo match he described, and literally as soon as you spawned, there were bullets coming at you from 6 different directions. I just sat at the spawn screen and watched my random squadmates try to spawn in and get mowed down immediately.

+1

They're all just excuses to play like a douche.

If we've proven anything as gamers it's that we'll find any way we can to get an advantage and ruin a game. I'd rather play a competitive game that I lose than a game where we dominate and spawn trap any day. It's up to dice to keep spawn killing from happening. I'm not sure they can completely eliminate spawn trapping if a team is that bad, but they can make it tough.

Look at Wake Island on rush. You have enough time to run out of bounds, get the aa, and get back to safety before your time is up. Why bother putting it out of bounds? It's just bad design.

hah hey i'm just telling how it is, not to ruin your daydream of a perfect game between buddies. Plain and simple a win is a win is a win. The only rules there are is stay alive and kill the enemy. Ideally a "competetive game" would include people on both sides who can spawn trap and who can repel a spawn trap.
The only line that really matters in all those tactics is ---> The people that complain about it are the people that can't figure out how to stop it. Those that can stop it don't usually complain. That's not a hit a skill level or how "good" you are. It's simply if you are mad enough at someone dominating you, stop them.
You are 100% correct on the AA. Goes directly back to destructible turrets.

Hey, if somebody pops up in front of me I'm gonna kill 'em. However, I'm not really down with camping a beacon. I'm going to destroy it relatively soon, and if anybody spawns on it while I'm approaching... too bad for them. I think that's fair and sporting.


Oh, I agree. I tend to get more pissed at the *******s who bail because they suck. If I'm getting spawn trapped, I bust my ass to get my team un-trapped. If I'm getting spawn killed, I tend to get all rage-y.


I've been spawn trapped on Metro exactly once. I've seen it happen on Conquest on Tehran much more often.


Great post, and one where I'm in full agreement. Against smart players camping a spawn beacon quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns. I get frustrated when it happens to me, because it's not always obvious that the beacon was smartly placed and isn't being camped the first time you get spawnkilled. That's partly on the player who placed the beacon in such a ****** position, and partly on the player who is camping it waiting for easy ("cheap") kills, when they could just destroy the beacon and move on to working objectives.

I DO think vehicle denial is not "spawn camping". Zath does it because he has complete control of the airspace, and it'd be foolish to intentionally give that up. Make 'em earn it.

You don't really believe this do you?

Personally an old adage applies, if it's in the game...it ain't cheating. People may get pissed that someone stole a chopper or smoked an empty jet but it's allowed. It's the teams fault these things happen. Soloists who don't care about air support enough to guard the chopper or send away a circling plane deserve the lack of team play they get.

Personally if I get killed too many times by something I do something about it. Don't run out in front of that tank, don't spawn yet again on that beacon, don't rez someone in the line of fire, chopper kills me out comes the Stinger, tanks get mines rockets or C4. If my team won't do squat I will, well I'll try anyway.

As a last resort I'll leave. That is reserved for those times where I'm negative match after match. I'm finding that my style of play is team oriented and I'm not so good solo. So if my team is soloing I suck, badly. My stats increase greatly when I play in a communicating, cooperating squad, doesn't matter if we're even using the headset.

I like close, difficult battles, my stats rocket up with these. Out and out decimation leaves me hanging, if we're destroying I don't usually get as many kills cause I'm not driving the knife. If were being destroyed I don't usually get as much cause I'm getting hammered. Hell, there was one match I had with some randoms. Came in halfway, but the sheer amount of bullets zinging by was incredible. My team was so locked down it was physically impossible to even crouch. Prone was about it. Can't remember the map, probably Metro.

This.

How you choose to play the game is totally up to the individual. You want to play like this, then don't be surprised if:

a) I find another server.
b) Drop you from my friend's list.
c) Give you a bad rep report.


Glad you brought out this gem for excusing bad behavior. "Its ok for me to be an asshat 'cuz the game allows it."

The patch correcting point padding would contradict this statement, by the way.

Being able to do something doesn't mean you should.

And I'm not talking about bad play, I'm talking about exploiting game mechanics for individual stats or just plain griefing. The AA example is one, spawn camping is another.

Not true?

Guess I should qualify things, being in the game means legally in the game, not exploits, hacks, cheats, or glitches. We're talking about a game that wants you to develop tactics. Tactics that aren't lining up single file to attack an objective.

The problem is they are blurring the line.
Spawn camping---> Knowing the exact coordinates on a map where the enemy has to spawn with no other choices are given and camping that spot and shooting him within seconds of spawing. Yes this is traditionally an exploit and traditionally a cheat.

Spawn Trapping--> Usually already winning the game. Enemy does not spawn in exact coordinate that can be camped. Enemy has multiple choices as to how to move from spawn. What one-sided games have always reverted to and always will. Has nothing to do with stat whoring but more to do with team A trying to keep themselves entertained while team B jacks around.
Vehicles apply differently but once again if your jet is being blown up everytime it spawns you don't have to spawn in it. It's not an auto kill for the other team. Oh and in no way shape or form a mod, cheat, glitch, hack, exploit AKA a reportable offense. Yes it is a tactic. Is it "fair"? Absolutely. Does it hurt feelings? Absolutely.
There will always be the guys that play on the server that doesn't allow spawn killing, and there will always be the guys that play on the servers that do. Life.

Absolutely not true although it makes for a nice generalization.

You're talking spawn trapping and I'm talking spawn camping. Your statement applies to one, not the other.

I've never heard so many vehicle cry babies in my life. You guys and your desire to have your vehicles and your cake too. Hilarious. (I'm not trying to insult anyone, though. Just saying that I'm not so sure vehicles that are getting spawncamped are necessary in this game...just an added bonus.)

I was new to this game and never really went the vehicle route. I just don't really prefer using vehicles as I am not all that comfortable with them. I'll take them if it is the quickest way back into the action, basically.

Man, with over 200 hours played I really haven't been spawncamped. I mean I know there have been times when it has occurred, but nothing really stands out...meaning it has been irrelevant for me. In the past the spawn beacon was an issue for me, but that was most likely the enemy doing a good job of tracking down the beacon and then yes, at times being a little bit of a douche. When I found one, I never really had the desire to just sit there and camp. Always felt there was something more important to be doing. But that should basically not exist much anymore with the spawn beacon going away after that recon dies and respawns. Hell, if he doesn't respawn then the chances are the guy that is camping the beacon is being a detriment to his team.

I feel Dice has made a very evenly matched game for the most part. Would I change a few things here and there? Sure, I guess a little, although I can't be for certain if that would work out like I would want.

I feel spawn trapping is...normal. It truly doesn't happen that often. And when it does happen, I take no exception to it no matter what end I am on.

But the main issue you guys are talking about is the spawn camping of vehicles which I see as mainly irrelevant. How often do these vehicles spawn again? I just think that if they are over there doing that, then they are losing flags or mcoms. I've come back to the base to soflam the campers before, allowing javeliners to get rid of them. I've also spawned with stingers back there. But for the most part I just believe that it's a choice, wanting to have your vehicles, not a necessity. I'm certain Dice went over and over this.

One could say, "You don't use vehicles, so you don't know what you are talking about". But I guess that is precisely why I feel that I do know what I am talking about.

As far as the douche aspect. I think it only applies to that 2% that are basically boosting. I don't see a problem with a team player making a run over there from time to time.

Like I said, I kind of think people just don't want their toys messed with. But in this game's case, I think it is mostly a non issue. More of a pain, requiring a little more diligence to get the win. But that's about it.

Here's what I do in cases of spawnkilling:

Noshahr Canals/Davamand Peak conquest - I jump in the chopper as soon as it appears. I'll take the death if it means they can't steal the chopper.

Caspian Border/Operation Firestorm conquest - jump in the AA. Tear the camper(s) a new butthole. Suicide. Spawn in jet.

Kharg Island conquest - keep spawning in the jet, unless it's a chopper. In that case, I'll just play the flags and ignore the jets. Haven't had to do the last in a long time.

Kharg Island Rush - if attacker, I jump into the AA gun. If defender, I keep spawning in the jet. If the guy's good enough to get me 3 times in a row, I'll give up on it and go on foot.

Caspian Border Rush - I keep spwaning in, die 3 times, give up and go on foot.

Operation Firestorm Rush - Jump into the AA gun and own the guy. Suicide. Spawn in the jet.

When spawning in a jet that is going to be spawncamped, I like to run fire extinguisher. As I'm taking off, I keep going rudder right or left. DO NOT HIT AFTERBURNERS - just lets the enemy know you're in the jet. If you're getting shot, spam RB while doing above. Once disabled, your fire extinguisher will kick you back up to 35%, which may be enough to get you off the ground. From there, continue dodging the enemy (really easy if disabled), and spam RB till you've recovered. If in rush mode, kill the enemy jet, then IMMEDIATELY fly into the ground. Change back to flares, spawn back into jet, and destroy theirs.

*note - the patch brought disabled value to 35% on jets. So it's actually HARDER to pull this off w/the extinguisher now.

And as MPH said, soflam/javelin combo works really well to take out the jet. At the very least, the soflam will keep the jet occupied and in a defensive posture - possibly foregoing the spawnkill (I almost always ignore spawnkilling if I'm getting locked).

Again, the best way to deal with a spawnkilling jet is to IGNORE IT. Part of the reason I like to spawnkill is the satisfaction of having 3 guys switch to stingers to try and shoot me down. I just took 3 people out of the game. If this makes me a d-bag, I'm fine with it. In my 32-1 Caspian match last night, spawnkilling accounted for 3 of my kills. 3 others I gunned down as soon as they left the airfield (is that spawnkilling?).

There is a large grey area between tactics and being a douche. What separates the two is who gets their feelings hurt more it seems.

I agree with what some have said. But I guess a win is a win. Nothing more. Keeping the other teams air support off the ground make it much easier for those on the ground to do what the need to.

When you get spawnkilled while taking off 5 times in a row.. how do you describe the person who did it to you? and what are your feelings toward him? Man I watched your video when you spawn killed a jet pilot 5 times in a row and I felt really bad for him.. Yeah you got skills and I could never control a jet like you especially when you take out tanks... But its not fair play.. In sports you cant break your opponent legs cause he will keep running and you dont want to chase him..

You are the jet pilot so dont ask me to get good at something I am not interested in... Its you who should get better..

The reason he did was because YOUR teamate, your best pilot, who had the jet first/against him wasn't good enough. Whats fair is both teams get a jet. Its fair for someone who is really good at something to keep doing it. Your team shouldn't of had that pilot. If he got shot down and can't get back up in the air he doesn't need to be in it in the first place.
Spawn in mid round? Tough. Good luck next round.
Why would he not is the question. The enemy's base is literally in the path to make a run through the middle of the map. If he doesn't do it then he just gets shot down from behind, not from a "fair" face to face fight.

Zath isn't camping; he's actively engaged, but he's got enough air dominance to be able to swing over an eliminate the enemy vehicle as soon as it shows up. That's a valid tactic. It can be annoying if you can't stop him, but he's attempting to keep the opponent jet out of the fight, not rack up cheap kills.

Only problem with the football analogy is they dont have guns to shoot back.

If it's in the game, it's fair game(not glitches). END OF STORY. How the hell does anyone think people get spawn-raped? They were put their by the superior skill of the opposing team; it wasn't a gift. It's their responsibility to get out, not yours. The object is to WIN-not avoid being seen as a douche. What's stopping them from doing the same to you? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They're not purposely avoiding it due to some bull-crap "gaming code of honor" or any other such nonsense. BTW, you can bet from time to time they've done EXACTLY the same to others. I've been spawn-raped in Metro many more times than I've been able to do it to others. Tough crap. Maybe the NBA should pass a rule that LeBron James can't play the last 2 minutes of every game to make it "fair" whenever they're up 20pts or more. When I'm on the winning end of spawn-raping, you better believe I gladly take my reward. On rare occasion I've been able to get out of the spawn-rape in Metro by sneaking by and grabbing A or B. Hard as hell, unlikely, and not a whole lot of fun. If they add a 3 second invincibility/reduce the spawn-killing, it might improve the game's balance. Until they do, I won't criticize others for using an advantage that's available to everyone. As far as Zath is concerned, I'm fairly certain he's not in their spawn due to lack of skill.

Or who is trying to justify their behavior.

I'm not even sure where to start with this post. Lets see, your sports analogy is inaccurate, many of us play to have fun, and 'can do' does not mean 'should do'. I could go on but I won't as I'm on a tablet.

Zath does not spawn camp, he tactically reduces his enemies to nothingness with his presence.

My post did not intend to offend - and I'm not trying to be an elitist or anything. I'm simply saying when you get good enough to know your way around the jet, you'll encounter someone who feels the need to turn. 10 minutes later you may very well still be in your little turning war. All of this could have been stopped by destroying their vehicle when it spawned. That's 10 minutes you can be focused on helping your teammates. It's 10 minutes you can be looking at the radar and calling out tanks.

If you aren't interested in the jet, why are you even pissed off about jets spawnkilling people?

To answer your initial question, sure, I get pissed. Sometimes I leave. I usually do what I posted above. If the 3rd attempt to spawn into a jet fails, I go do something else - cap a flag, go after an MCOM, etc. Also, your sports analogy - if there's a star guy on a team, you do your best to F-him up. No, you don't break their legs. But you take every opportunity to hit them HARD so they may not get up again. Since we're bringing real life into the equation, I suppose you hated when American forces took out the Iraqi air force while it was still on the ground in Desert Storm, and cratered all their runways. Saddam to Bush - "STOP SPAWNKILLING US, YOU D-BAG!"


lol I wish!

Had some good games tonight with Jetblack, Lodolfan, and Nexus. Dolfan and I jumped into a co-op mission since everyone else's game was full. As soon as we jumped in, Jet and Nexus joined our party. Go figure!

And don't worry, everyone - we made sure not to hurt the feelings of the AI as they spawntrapped us. We didn't even get any hatemail!

We proceeded to squad up and had some interesting matches. I jet whored as usual, and only spawnkilled twice the whole night.

Saw PJrage on. Glad to see he's getting back into it, though he ignored my party/game invites (jerk!).

Just playing a game using the tools provided!

If you're getting spawn raped then you're on a ****** team. Get creative or quit and find a new game. Simple as that.

I hate being on both sides of it - it's boring when you're doing it to another team and it can be frustrating when it's happening to you. Grab a sniper rife, pull out your stinger, or sit around the campfire and pick off people as you see them approaching the boundary of the spawn. Spawn trappers always turn super aggresive and are easy to pick off - sure, you aren't going to win that way, but you aren't going to win anyway.

I personally hate going for the outermost flag. I like holding the majority and letting them come to me. Team doesn't get spread out and depending on the map you can funnel them in to where you want them.