Long post. Since I don't post much, I have to cram a lot into each post. But, I include pretty pictures and crazy stuff like the facts, so, at the very least, it's usually fun enough to wade through.
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen
With that said, I feel 10 Hz output is highly overrated from a subjective perception standpoint.
Originally Posted by Warpdrv
I personally don't really give a hoot about hitting content that low....
Hey, we all have our faults.
And, please don't buy into all of this "more visceral", "mid bass slam" Bah-Low-Knee.
Infrasonic content on soundtrack and hi-rez music discs is a very recent phenomenon in human history. It has become an extremely sophisticated art with many of the technical secrets being closely held by the top artists in the field.
Accurate playback of that content in one's home is even more recent. Like any new sensory experience, it is not best served by the initial blurting of some popular adjectives and quick subjective judgement from the vocal majority.
My take has always been that of the objective enthusiast. Keith Yates sums it up well for me:
One last point: If you've got the dough and real estate to spare, don't shrug off the sub-20Hz content I've shown in the reference waterfall plots as unintended artifactssay, scraps of subway rumble or HVAC noisethat somehow slipped through the filters during the mixing process. The content is program-related and meant to be there.
Of course, he's only partially right. The "real estate" and "dough" comments are not so correct. I currently use less real estate than any of the subs that have been or will be mentioned in this thread. And, the cost is less than many enthusiasts spend on what they and their guests sit on while they watch a movie.
Over the past decade, I've spent more time studying the physics of infrasonic sound, comparing actual content to actual reproduction of that content in various rooms at the listening position, objectively through measurements and spectrographs and subjectively through listening sessions, than anyone.
Here is a recent exercise which compared a scene from HULK that has rather huge <10 Hz content. The subwoofers were configured to 3 different in-room responses; flat to 4 Hz, flat to 10 Hz and flat to 23 Hz. The methodology for asking unsuspecting listeners if they notice any difference and, if so, to describe the difference, will always be the subject of endless debate. Nevertheless, in my experiences with this sort of thing, based upon, if nothing else, the large number of sessions, source and audience diversity, they are conclusive.
The spectrograph lets one "see" what what presented:
In looking for accuracy in bandwidth, response linearity, compression, HD and SPL, the spectrograph, when coupled with a measurement rig that's accurate to 4 Hz, allows direct comparison of the direct analysis of the ones and zeroes from the DVD players SW output to what is presented by the subwoofers at the listening position with a high enough degree of accuracy. This scene with a gargantuan low frequency effect from the state-of-the-artist Randy Thom on the recent BluRay release of How To Train Your Dragon illustrates:
Now, you could drag the sub outside, run progressive sine sweeps until its tongue is hanging out, take the results and do some hypothetical math and post your opinion as to whether or not the sub is enough in some particular room. But, that's not going to be nearly as accurate an analysis as the above graph, so why waste the huge effort and virtual ink?
I would say that the dual PB13 system in 1800 cubes should do a very good job to 10 Hz in 10 Hz ported mode. Below 10 Hz, I have no opinion because there is nothing available from the company on which to base an opinion.
Comparing the PB13 to the Chase stuff is a chuckle. SVS has been around since the beginning and this sub has been scrutinized from head to toe for years. Chase has been in and out of subwoofer business partnerships many times since I've been a member here, all of which have been short lived. And, despite the CHT people's claims of "a wealth of data', I have seen nothing to date to corroborate that. The PB13 is a very well designed and built subwoofer. The Chase stuff is the worst looking I have ever seen.
In fact, looking at all of the current commercially available subs, I would probably only recommend the SVS stuff or Seaton's SubMersive. Of course, my opinions in this matter are as biased as it gets. I view threads like "Audioholics Ultimate Subwoofer Shootout" as needing to be retitled to something like; "The Results Of Audioholics Special Olympics For Subwoofers".
The only system I can guarantee will get the job done in your room is the following, but that's mostly because there is no pertinent data for other systems and, quite frankly, I just don't care much about any other system:
I visit here and post regarding new and existing source material, how one might get the best from his existing sub, in-room and low frequency reproduction fact and theory and have rarely, if ever, engaged in which sub is the most-bestest one.