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The official "Theta" thread - Page 143

post #4261 of 6787
Edorr, you speculate about a lot of stuff you don't know.

Theta's CB3 HD trade up program has been a marvelous success. So much so that Theta is doing further upgrades, to 192-24 DSP, Dirac Live, and I am betting "Even Steven" that there will be a big new announcement at CEDIA shortly on a new product from Theta.

Craig (VGI) has sold a lot of Theta gear over the years and I'm sure has had many, many Theta customers who through Craig has done the upgrade. Without dealers like Craig Thata would be out of business.

Now as time progresses, Theta may change perhaps its future trade-in and business model. But its past model for the CB3 HD upgrade has been a roaring success and the Phoenix has risen from the grave!
post #4262 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Edorr, you speculate about a lot of stuff you don't know.
Theta's CB3 HD trade up program has been a marvelous success. So much so that Theta is doing further upgrades, to 192-24 DSP, Dirac Live, and I am betting "Even Steven" that there will be a big new announcement at CEDIA shortly on a new product from Theta.
Craig (VGI) has sold a lot of Theta gear over the years and I'm sure has had many, many Theta customers who through Craig has done the upgrade. Without dealers like Craig Thata would be out of business.
Now as time progresses, Theta may change perhaps its future trade-in and business model. But its past model for the CB3 HD upgrade has been a roaring success and the Phoenix has risen from the grave!

I agree. You are probably right and considering where they were a year or two ago probably the only way to make it through this rough patch was to be very generous and flexible with upgrades and get all the business they can get, and Craig may very well have been instrumental in their survival.
post #4263 of 6787
Not having access to Theta's books I can't speak to how the upgrade program worked business wise but it's been good to me starting with the DS Pro Gen I and subsequently the CB I. The latest from CB III to CB IIIHD worked equally well and was made even better with Craig's help. Only regret is getting off the DS Pro train at Gen V...
post #4264 of 6787
Has anyone else got full range HDMI on their CB III HD?
post #4265 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Has anyone else got full range HDMI on their CB III HD?

What are you referring to? I ask because I'm about the pull the trigger on a CBIII HD and want to make sure I'm in the know on all "issues" they may be having (I know about the DSP board, thank goodness!)

On a different note/question - does anyone know if the end user can reconfigure the channels on the DACS? The unit I'm looking to purchase has multiple subwoofers on one of the dac cards, and I'd prefer to reconfigure it as a traditional 7.1 MYSELF, if I can.

If "we" (user) can change it, anyone know how to do it? I've heard a password is required, but not sure how to get one..... already called/emailed theta/ATI, but have not heard back yet...

Best,

Stieger
post #4266 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Has anyone else got full range HDMI on their CB III HD?

Steve, I have one and a few people recently have gotten that board as well.

All upgrades leaving the factory now will have the 0-255 HDMI settings. Lets keep in mind that with the other setting, you really cant see any difference unless your Lon Goldstein and have a Bazaillion dollar projector and your calibrator says the color range needs to be opened smile.gif Lon just busting your hump smile.gif Love ya

In all reality , there is no difference for 99.999 percent of the world with the 16-235 range. Just ask panasonic and samsung and Sharp/Elite and Sony. All those panels are 16-235 unless you make setting changes which buys you nothing.

Craig
post #4267 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post

Steve, I have one and a few people recently have gotten that board as well.
All upgrades leaving the factory now will have the 0-255 HDMI settings. Lets keep in mind that with the other setting, you really cant see any difference unless your Lon Goldstein and have a Bazaillion dollar projector and your calibrator says the color range needs to be opened smile.gif Lon just busting your hump smile.gif Love ya
In all reality , there is no difference for 99.999 percent of the world with the 16-235 range. Just ask panasonic and samsung and Sharp/Elite and Sony. All those panels are 16-235 unless you make setting changes which buys you nothing.
Craig

Craigo:

" Just ask panasonic and samsung and Sharp/Elite and Sony. All those panels are 16-235 unless you make setting changes which buys you nothing."

Have you looked at the colors on these flat panels???? I have 4 identical Sammy LED's mounted on the sides of my screen, all 4 show different colors for the same scene....I am glad Theta now has 0-255 range.
post #4268 of 6787
Oh let's not have that debate again. I think you use the term 16-235 a little loosely. Even in studio Y'CbCr only luma is 16-235 and, as has been argued, often luma content extends above reference white although I do agree it might well be hard to notice. I can assure that out of the box my Pioneer Kuro displays luma up to 255. I dial down the contrast a lot but can still see well above reference white (to circa 252). They're tuned nicely for reference black. But that's just luma. Restricting all channels to 16-235 would potentially constrain colour as well. Would you notice - probably not at all. It's probable that only someone doing a calibration will notice but it's not something Theta should impose. Were I not to calibrate my display I doubt I'd have noticed.

The reason I ask is that I have noticed some issues with mine and I am wondering if it's linked to the full range firmware or not. Occasionally, I get a very strong green cast on the display. A quick reboot of the CB III HD and this goes away. On other occasions, the display is noticeably lighter as if brightness has been set way too high. Again, a reboot of the CB III HD and this goes away. I'm still trying to pin down the circumstances when this happens but sometimes it's when I have been playing an SACD and then I put a BD in. I've raised it with John Baloff but they've not noticed any issues on the few sets they've used with the new firmware.
post #4269 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

The reason I ask is that I have noticed some issues with mine and I am wondering if it's linked to the full range firmware or not. Occasionally, I get a very strong green cast on the display. A quick reboot of the CB III HD and this goes away. On other occasions, the display is noticeably lighter as if brightness has been set way too high. Again, a reboot of the CB III HD and this goes away. I'm still trying to pin down the circumstances when this happens but sometimes it's when I have been playing an SACD and then I put a BD in. I've raised it with John Baloff but they've not noticed any issues on the few sets they've used with the new firmware.

I on occasion have had the same type of HDMI glitch which you describe, and I am not routing HDMI video through m y CB3 HD at all!
And when I did, I didn't notice any difference doing so.

Its HDMI - it sucks at times!!@@@
post #4270 of 6787
Ok that's errrr somewhat reassuring. Last night I had another "panic" attack watching Saving Private Ryan. At a couple of places in the movie the image "flares" as if the sun has shone straight into the camera (at one point it looks almost like film damage along the bottom of the screen). (Watch from about 2 hours 15 mins - the last action scene as they are about to blow up the bridge - there's a shot of the timid guy who finally kills the German that he begged to have set free only to find that he has rejoined the action; at one point the "flare" encroaches over half his face.) I thought this was another HDMI glitch or that I had screwed up something in my calibration. It turns out it is on the DVD, BD disk and, apparently, was that way in the theatre.
post #4271 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Stuff I bought brand new over the last two years: Marantz ud9004, PS Audio Bridge, PS Audio MKII upgrade, Oppo 93, Trinnov ST2 Pro, 2 x PS audio P5, Empirical Audio Offramp 5, Oppo digi out board, Salk Center Channel, 2 x Mojo audio power cable. Total outlay: More than my car. If everyone spend as much on new audio gear as I did the industry would do better than Apple computer. Of course, I also bought a lot of fully depreciated stuff (speakers, amps, cables and .... a CBIII), but if something new comes out on the leading edge I'll buy it new. The reason I have not written Theta any checks is simply because they were late with the upgrade and when it came out I had gone another direction. I have been a big advocate and cheerleader on the forums for all this new stuff (PS audio, Offramp5, Digi out mod, Trinnov), and would happily do the same for Theta.
I'll go further than that; if I had been 100% sure Theta would have shipped Dirac live and new DACs this summer, I would have waited it out and tried Dirac before Trinnov. I love the idea of a single box with decoding, switching, bass management, and DRC and top of the line D/A conversion. I would have gotten a digi out card for my two channel and keep the Perfectwave MKII, or may be even go the GenVIII route. Bottom line: I have zero brand loyalty, try to get the best stuff I can afford, if need be new, if available used.
Don't get me wrong. I love the build if the CBIII (makes the ADA look like a toy processor), loved my Six Shooter, am very impressed with customer servcies. and the only reason I raised some questions about the trade in program is because I think it hurts them commercially.
Datasat has everything you need. It has the ability to accept the 6 channel digital out from the modified Oppo 93 thus avoiding HDMI, Dirac live,and support for the latest formats.

I use Theta because the upgrades while slow are very economical. Hometheater is not my first priority. The Six Shooter was the highest price/performance value of any product I have ever owned until I bought a used Gen 8 and had it upgraded.

ADA likely represents a good value at the price point. The bland ordered all of the cables and got a CB3HD with not even Theta's best dacs and is now running from a public shootout like the plague. biggrin.gif
Edited by Bulldogger - 9/6/12 at 8:28am
post #4272 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Datasat has everything you need. It has the ability to accept the 6 channel digital out from the muddied Oppo 93 thus avoiding HDMI, Dirac live,and support for the latest formats.

please, let me understand.. if you have a source equipped with digital out..
with Datasat you can go in avoiding hdmi.
In case of Casablanca III hd connected by digi out to a trinnov would be a
worse choice given that you should connect the source via hdmi to the Theta?

by the way .. but if you connect the source via digital out instead of hdmi do you get dolby true hd and dts master audio anyway?
post #4273 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Datasat has everything you need. It has the ability to accept the 6 channel digital out from the muddied Oppo 93 thus avoiding HDMI, Dirac live,and support for the latest formats.

Correct. The reason I don't own one is fourfold . (1) I believe Datasat is twice the price as a 4 channel Trinnov. (2) I play 2 channel 90% of the time, and the remaining 10% of the time all I am losing is DRC on my surround channels, so the Trinnov is far more cost effective. (3) from what I gather the Trinnov DRC is (marginally) better than the Dirac live, (4) When I was ready to move in DRC direction, Dirac was a work in progress (may still be).

However, if you are in the market for a single box all digital solution right now, Dirac is probably more compelling than a CBIII + Digi out + Trinnov MC 8 channel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I use Theta because the upgrades white slow are very economical. Hometheater is not my first priority. The Six Shooter was the highest price/performance value of any product I have ever owned until I bought a used Gen 8 and had it upgraded.

Same here. For the astute buyer, you cannot beat Theta in terms of value. In fact, I have owned various pieced of Theta gear for over two years, just sold everything and broke even. Total cost of ownership = 0$
post #4274 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

Stuff I bought brand new over the last two years: Marantz ud9004, PS Audio Bridge, PS Audio MKII upgrade, Oppo 93, Trinnov ST2 Pro, 2 x PS audio P5, Empirical Audio Offramp 5, Oppo digi out board, Salk Center Channel, 2 x Mojo audio power cable. Total outlay: More than my car. If everyone spend as much on new audio gear as I did the industry would do better than Apple computer. Of course, I also bought a lot of fully depreciated stuff (speakers, amps, cables and .... a CBIII), but if something new comes out on the leading edge I'll buy it new. The reason I have not written Theta any checks is simply because they were late with the upgrade and when it came out I had gone another direction. I have been a big advocate and cheerleader on the forums for all this new stuff (PS audio, Offramp5, Digi out mod, Trinnov), and would happily do the same for Theta.
I'll go further than that; if I had been 100% sure Theta would have shipped Dirac live and new DACs this summer, I would have waited it out and tried Dirac before Trinnov. I love the idea of a single box with decoding, switching, bass management, and DRC and top of the line D/A conversion. I would have gotten a digi out card for my two channel and keep the Perfectwave MKII, or may be even go the GenVIII route. Bottom line: I have zero brand loyalty, try to get the best stuff I can afford, if need be new, if available used.
Don't get me wrong. I love the build if the CBIII (makes the ADA look like a toy processor), loved my Six Shooter, am very impressed with customer servcies. and the only reason I raised some questions about the trade in program is because I think it hurts them commercially.

Question for you- How did you use a non-Theta DAC with the CBIII's digi out? Would you not lose volume control over a Perfectwave DACs output, for example, if used for the L/R CB outputs, and ability to keep L/R volume in relation to the CB's Center / surround / sub outputs? IIRC, the signal on the CB's digi out is fixed, and volume control on the Gen-VIII is done on the DAC itself using the Vol data connection to the CBIII, keeping it in relation to all other channel outputs not going through the Gen-VIII. Just curious-
post #4275 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Question for you- How did you use a non-Theta DAC with the CBIII's digi out? Would you not lose volume control over a Perfectwave DACs output, for example, if used for the L/R CB outputs, and ability to keep L/R volume in relation to the CB's Center / surround / sub outputs? IIRC, the signal on the CB's digi out is fixed, and volume control on the Gen-VIII is done on the DAC itself using the Vol data connection to the CBIII, keeping it in relation to all other channel outputs not going through the Gen-VIII. Just curious-

I did not integrate a non Theta DAC with CBIII. However, I have been integrated a DACs with 4 channels of Trinnov, and it is actually pretty straightforward. You need iRule and simply create a macro to that does volumeUp and volumeDown on the CBIII and the other DAC. This works very well with DACs with digital volume display and 1 or 0.5 db volume increment steps, such as Bel Canto. PWD is actually a bit problematic because it has 1db in some of the range and 0.5db in other parts of the range.
post #4276 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I did not integrate a non Theta DAC with CBIII. However, I have been integrated a DACs with 4 channels of Trinnov, and it is actually pretty straightforward. You need iRule and simply create a macro to that does volumeUp and volumeDown on the CBIII and the other DAC. This works very well with DACs with digital volume display and 1 or 0.5 db volume increment steps, such as Bel Canto. PWD is actually a bit problematic because it has 1db in some of the range and 0.5db in other parts of the range.

Got it- Essentially a bit of "creative engineering" is required, thx. I recall Theta used to make a generic 'black box' volume slave unit for the CB that would work with pretty much any outboard DAC, back in the days when their DAC did not have the Vol data port integrated.
post #4277 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Got it- Essentially a bit of "creative engineering" is required, thx. I recall Theta used to make a generic 'black box' volume slave unit for the CB that would work with pretty much any outboard DAC, back in the days when their DAC did not have the Vol data port integrated.
Yes, Edorr sold me his, "black box" for use with other branded dacs. Edorr's box is 6 channel and can be used on either the front 6 channels or channels 7-12. I still haven't quite decided what I am going to do with it. I am mostly buying it as project and out of curiosity. The volume control cards, which are better, from a Six Shooter will work in it. For someone only running 5.1 the perfect use for the box would be a CBIIIHD with no dacs, and only the digital out card feeding a used EMM Labs Dac6e, around 3.5k on A-gon and Ebay.

Edorr's proposed method of volume control sounds logical but I am not entirely sure it will allow all the channels to remain matched as the volume level varies. It will work at a constant volume for sure. With dynamic sound tracks, I'm not sure the channels will remained matched as different volume controls may have different response curves. I had to buy two Six Shooters. According to Theta it was not possible to route some channels in a greater than 5.1 set-up through a Six Shooter and some not and have the channels remain balanced. To properly balance, all channels needed to go through a Six Shooter. I bought two because I was told Theta was never able to get channels to balance properly otherwise. I don't see anyone complaining about balancing channels with the Gen VIII so maybe it's not that large of an impact? My assumption is that the Gen VIII has been designed to remain balanced with the Casablanca as the signal varies.
post #4278 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Edorr's proposed method of volume control sounds logical but I am not entirely sure it will allow all the channels to remain matched as the volume level varies. It will work at a constant volume for sure. With dynamic sound tracks, I'm not sure the channels will remained matched as different volume controls may have different response curves. I had to buy two Six Shooters. According to Theta it was not possible to route some channels in a greater than 5.1 set-up through a Six Shooter and some not and have the channels remain balanced. To properly balance, all channels needed to go through a Six Shooter. I bought two because I was told Theta was never able to get channels to balance properly otherwise. I don't see anyone complaining about balancing channels with the Gen VIII so maybe it's not that large of an impact? My assumption is that the Gen VIII has been designed to remain balanced with the Casablanca as the signal varies.

You are probably right. But here is what I do. I match the levels at the sweetspot of my listening level, say 70db. Lets say I play music between 55db and 85db. If you have 10% "drift", my surround channels would be "off" by 1.5db at the extremes. Does not bother me one bit. I can measure how much drift there is and with the Bel Canto DAC3 I am using for surrounds and the Trinnov for mains/center. It is about 1db at the extremes. Not a problem at all.
post #4279 of 6787
Irule released an update today. The upgade includes a tokenizer which should allow Theta feedback to work properly. I am dying to try it out but don't have time this weekend as my wife's best friend is getting married. Next week for sure I will give it a try. If anyone, decides to try before then, let me know if it works.
post #4280 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Got it- Essentially a bit of "creative engineering" is required, thx. I recall Theta used to make a generic 'black box' volume slave unit for the CB that would work with pretty much any outboard DAC, back in the days when their DAC did not have the Vol data port integrated.

I have (empircally confirmed) come to the conclusion that using the digital volume control in a modern DAC will give far superior results than adding a cable and analog volume control in the chain, so I deal with the hassle of iRule integration.
post #4281 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Yes, Edorr sold me his, "black box" for use with other branded dacs. Edorr's box is 6 channel and can be used on either the front 6 channels or channels 7-12. I still haven't quite decided what I am going to do with it. I am mostly buying it as project and out of curiosity. The volume control cards, which are better, from a Six Shooter will work in it. For someone only running 5.1 the perfect use for the box would be a CBIIIHD with no dacs, and only the digital out card feeding a used EMM Labs Dac6e, around 3.5k on A-gon and Ebay.

This is basically using it as the EMM labs switchman MCH analog volume control is intended to with their 6 channel DAC. WIth the SS cards the volume control box it will probably be sonically at par with the switchman for a fraction of the cost.
post #4282 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

This is basically using it as the EMM labs switchman MCH analog volume control is intended to with their 6 channel DAC. WIth the SS cards the volume control box it will probably be sonically at par with the switchman for a fraction of the cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Yes, Edorr sold me his, "black box" for use with other branded dacs. Edorr's box is 6 channel and can be used on either the front 6 channels or channels 7-12. I still haven't quite decided what I am going to do with it. I am mostly buying it as project and out of curiosity. The volume control cards, which are better, from a Six Shooter will work in it. For someone only running 5.1 the perfect use for the box would be a CBIIIHD with no dacs, and only the digital out card feeding a used EMM Labs Dac6e, around 3.5k on A-gon and Ebay.
Edorr's proposed method of volume control sounds logical but I am not entirely sure it will allow all the channels to remain matched as the volume level varies. It will work at a constant volume for sure. With dynamic sound tracks, I'm not sure the channels will remained matched as different volume controls may have different response curves. I had to buy two Six Shooters. According to Theta it was not possible to route some channels in a greater than 5.1 set-up through a Six Shooter and some not and have the channels remain balanced. To properly balance, all channels needed to go through a Six Shooter. I bought two because I was told Theta was never able to get channels to balance properly otherwise. I don't see anyone complaining about balancing channels with the Gen VIII so maybe it's not that large of an impact? My assumption is that the Gen VIII has been designed to remain balanced with the Casablanca as the signal varies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

This is basically using it as the EMM labs switchman MCH analog volume control is intended to with their 6 channel DAC. WIth the SS cards the volume control box it will probably be sonically at par with the switchman for a fraction of the cost.

Interesting stuff guys, thanks for sharing the creativity of your setups. I'm sure I will eventually go with a GenVIII - Right now I'm pulling my hair out with converting my main L/R/S/Sub speakers from Genesis 6.1 to BG Radia. I picked up a pair of LA-800s last month and a CC220, designed some custom boxes for the LA800s using CDL (constrained layer damping), and before I got started with re-framing the theater wall for inwall accomodation I noticed one of the LA-800 panels and one of the woofers had a bit of a resonance noise. Sent both of them in to BG Radia for review, and effing FEDEX damaged the piss out of both of them. one of them looks like it was run over by a forklift, and one of the boxes actually has boot prints all over it. eek.gif

so my past couple of weeks has been myself and BG battling with Fedex to pay up on the damage claim. I had to actually contact executives at Fedex to get anything to happen. Absolutely rediculous, and this episode is still not over. Probably a couple more weeks before I see speakers again. Joy.
post #4283 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by k_lewis View Post

Sent both of them in to BG Radia for review, and effing FEDEX damaged the piss out of both of them. one of them looks like it was run over by a forklift, and one of the boxes actually has boot prints all over it. eek.gif
so my past couple of weeks has been myself and BG battling with Fedex to pay up on the damage claim. I had to actually contact executives at Fedex to get anything to happen. Absolutely rediculous, and this episode is still not over. Probably a couple more weeks before I see speakers again. Joy.

I shipped a center channel packed like crap to California Fedex. Predictably, the speaker was damaged upon arrival. I asked the recipient to send a few pics to Fedex and they paid for the damage in full no questions asked......
post #4284 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I shipped a center channel packed like crap to California Fedex. Predictably, the speaker was damaged upon arrival. I asked the recipient to send a few pics to Fedex and they paid for the damage in full no questions asked......

Glad you had a good experience. I typically never have any issues with Fedex. The whole thing was a comedy of ineptitude from the beginning- speakers were shipped in factory crates (each box is 90lbs and 7ft tall). One of the two boxes vanished and ended up in another state, re-appeared with a different tracking number, and was delivered 3 days after the first one. that was the one which looks like it was run over. The one delivered 'normally' was dropped on it's ends repeatedly, so bad in fact that all the line array ribbons were trashed. Full pictures were taken on delivery of both items by BG Radia.

On filing the claim plus photos, Fedex tried everything to either ignore the claim or worm their way out of it. I guess they tend to act differently when the shipped item costs $16k to replace rolleyes.gif
post #4285 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifo View Post

please, let me understand.. if you have a source equipped with digital out..
with Datasat you can go in avoiding hdmi.
In case of Casablanca III hd connected by digi out to a trinnov would be a
worse choice given that you should connect the source via hdmi to the Theta?
by the way .. but if you connect the source via digital out instead of hdmi do you get dolby true hd and dts master audio anyway?
Yes, you can connect all channels and avoid HDMI with the Datasat. No one has so far reported better sound by using coax vs HDMI with the Casablanca. In theory however, a coax connection should have less jitter than using HDMI. If you use a Oppo with a modification, then the player does the decoding of DD True HD and DTS MA so you still get to use those formats.
post #4286 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

This is basically using it as the EMM labs switchman MCH analog volume control is intended to with their 6 channel DAC. WIth the SS cards the volume control box it will probably be sonically at par with the switchman for a fraction of the cost.
Before the Six Shooter exited, Theta actually used the EMM Labs Switchman to domonstrate the original Compli at shows. The Theta External Volume control is inferior to the Six Shooter for sound quality. Its volume controls are similar to the Gen VIII series 1.
post #4287 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Yes, you can connect all channels and avoid HDMI with the Datasat. No one has so far reported better sound by using coax vs HDMI with the Casablanca. In theory however, a coax connection should have less jitter than using HDMI. If you use a Oppo with a modification, then the player does the decoding of DD True HD and DTS MA so you still get to use those formats.

For SACD, a modded Oppo MCH S/DIF out into a datasat will be better than HDMI, because the S/DIF comes from a board with custom DSD -> PCM conversion and reclocking, whereas the HDMI is standard Oppo.
post #4288 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I have (empircally confirmed) come to the conclusion that using the digital volume control in a modern DAC will give far superior results than adding a cable and analog volume control in the chain, so I deal with the hassle of iRule integration.
That's a generalization that is not backed by science. Your experience is with one dac and you can not apply that to every dac. I am skeptical that PS Audio has completely turned the audiophile community upside down with a simple upgrade that now makes a digital volume control superior to analog volume control. I don't favor one type over the other and have made the decision based upon the science. You are the only one I have ever seen make the cliam that it is actually better. Digital volume controls have classically lost resolution which is why companies, Theta, Lexicon, etc have used analog volume controls. With more modern digital volume controls, the loss may be a lot less than in previous designs. I still have not compared the Gen VIII series 3 against the Perfect Wave MKII. It may be awhile. I hope, PS Audio has been able to outshine every analog preamp with a cheap digital volume control. It would save me a lot of money.
post #4289 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

For SACD, a modded Oppo MCH S/DIF out into a datasat will be better than HDMI, because the S/DIF comes from a board with custom DSD -> PCM conversion and reclocking, whereas the HDMI is standard Oppo.
Here, I fully agree as the Datasat is unlikely to have the specific enhancements that some high dacs do and the Vanity board with custom algorithms. With outboard dacs, it's a different story. Many companies are going to reclock the data and apply their own algorithms. Some of the lower priced outboard dacs don't have this and likely greatly benefit from the algorithms.
post #4290 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

That's a generalization that is not backed by science. Your experience is with one dac and you can not apply that to every dac. I am skeptical that PS Audio has completely turned the audiophile community upside down with a simple upgrade that now makes a digital volume control superior to analog volume control. I don't favor one type over the other and have made the decision based upon the science. You are the only one I have ever seen make the cliam that it is actually better. Digital volume controls have classically lost resolution which is why companies, Theta, Lexicon, etc have used analog volume controls. With more modern digital volume controls, the loss may be a lot less than in previous designs. I still have not compared the Gen VIII series 3 against the Perfect Wave MKII. It may be awhile. I hope, PS Audio has been able to outshine every analog preamp with a cheap digital volume control. It would save me a lot of money.

Controversial topic. Check any threads on the subject and opinion is split in the middle. Ask two respectable digital design engineers and you get two diametrically opposed opinions. When in doubt trust your ears. I did and concluded an analog preamp made things worse not better in my system. Note I was heavily predisposed on favor of preamps going into the shootout and looking into upgrading my Modwright 36.5 LS/PS to a VTL 7.5.

I never tried a DAC with analog volume control like the Gen VIII, or a hybrid (small steps digital large steps analog) like the emprical audio overdrive or I believe Weiss though. Who knows one day I will. For now, I am happy with digital volume control and saved a bundle. Others may have different experience in different systems.

For the record, I am doing digital volume control in the Trinnnov, not the PWD. PWD is set to 80 at all times. This is the same volume control used in the $40K ADA reference, so it can't be that bad.
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