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The official "Theta" thread - Page 161

post #4801 of 6787
One the volume control issue. I have a dac with (optional) analog volume control, and variable output voltage setting (MSB), and an upstream processor with digital volume control (trinnov). If I set the dac to -9db output voltage, my listening range for volume control is between -20db and -0db. In this range I hear absolutely no difference between attenuation using the trinnov digital or the MSB analog volume control. The trinnov digital VC would be the same as what is done in the $40k ADA reference. One could conclude this means the digital is better, because if I elected to use the digital VC, I could remove the optional analog VC from the MSB circuit which can only make things better. I have not done the same experiment with higher attenuation levels.
post #4802 of 6787
Edorr, watch it again (and perhaps read between the lines)
post #4803 of 6787
That presentation is not dealing fairly with how digital audio is processed. Add dither to the equation, and it's a different story.
post #4804 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

That presentation is not dealing fairly with how digital audio is processed. Add dither to the equation, and it's a different story.

Please explain.

The way I interpreted the digital volume control discussion was that if one invests the money for absolute design perfection then yes an analogue volume control will beat a digital volume control but if one has a low noise DAC with high-bit internal processing then it takes a lot of money and very good analogue design to beat it.

I found the jitter discussion more interesting though and do wonder how Theta manage clocking in their DACs.

BTW his main presentation was just as interesting, if not more so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CkyrDIGzOE
post #4805 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Please explain.

The way I interpreted the digital volume control discussion was that if one invests the money for absolute design perfection then yes an analogue volume control will beat a digital volume control but if one has a low noise DAC with high-bit internal processing then it takes a lot of money and very good analogue design to beat it.
Yes, we are in agreement. Martin was showing that when one takes 16-bit PCM and scales sit down, it creates errors. What he is saying is if you implement a digital volume control poorly, it will work poorly. Not a useful argument.

Even a 16-bit DAC can work well as a digital volume control if the math is performed ahead of the DAC, in the DSP, with higher wordlength and then properly noise shaped and dithered.

Play your favorite high dynamic range CD -- at full volume. Perhaps a symphony. Listen as the final notes decay. Is the noise floor acceptable? If not, the problem is not the volume control. Let's assume the noise floor is low -- maybe even inaudible. Now turn down the volume. Does it matter whether the noise floor drops or not? And we're talking 16 bits here. Use a 24 bit DAC and the noise floor issue is that much less.
post #4806 of 6787
Hey Guys


I hope to have some very good news later this week pertaining to some software updates for CB3HD..

This is Beta right now but i wanted to let you guys know we have not forgotten about all the requests we get for updates and believe me , Morris (Theta Boss) is working on everything we have asked for and more..

We hope to have very soon a Software update that will allow the Cb3HD using HDMI a full 192K input. The hardware was there to begin with it just wasn't opened up in the software. If all goes well we will have limited availability soon for people that actually want to test this. Keep in mind this is for people who have something connected that outputs 24/192K over HDMI..

We also might have a software fix for the left rear channel popping but no promises yet smile.gif

More to follow

Craig
post #4807 of 6787
So does that mean that it will accept a 192kHz input and down-res it to 96kHz for processing and output? What about input via SPDIF or AES/EBU sources?
post #4808 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post

Keep in mind this is for people who have something connected that outputs 24/192K over HDMI..

Craig

So does the Comli Blu 3D then output 24/192K when feeding it with such format via the network ? (Different Media server tested).

My Compli has the firmware CMP95-74-0908.
And my CBIII HD accepts 24/192K via HMDI from the Compli Blu 3D. I use Matrix mode if that matters.

Does the Compli do some conversion of this signal ?
(The Compli stats in the display that is plays FLAC files, but not the resolution).

From the manual page 42:

"My Network" is an experimental feature right now. It enables the player to stream audio, video
and photo from media servers on the home network.

Under Note:
The experimental features are not officially supported. Theta does not offer technical
support via email or phone for these experimental features.
Edited by ANRE - 2/19/13 at 6:42am
post #4809 of 6787
deleted as I found out more about the sound card
Edited by stevekale - 2/19/13 at 10:27am
post #4810 of 6787
I've been so happy with my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player that I hadn't bothered to test out my Theta Compli Blu 3D using its USB input. But my good friend and Theta dealer Craig (VGI here on AVS) asked me to check it out. So I have been doing so!

First, I took my Bryston demo USB stick, with a number of 96-12 demo songs, and one 192-24 song, all Flac. I inserted the USB stick in the back of the player. I turned the player on. In a short time, a screen came up with a bunch of applications, with "Music" at the very top left. Press "Enter" on the remote on the "Music" icon and presto, the USB stick comes up in the menu. Keep on clicking the remote into the songs in the menu. All songs played fine, with the 96-24 songs showing in the CB3 HD menu as "96-24", and with the 192-24 song showing also as "96-24".
post #4811 of 6787
Second, I connected my self-powered 3 TB external USB drive that I use with my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player. Nothing showed up. Doesn't work. I assume too large of a drive. A smaller drive probably would work though, as the USB stick worked fine.
post #4812 of 6787
You use the "Enter" button on the remote to go deeper into the menu including albums, folders and songs, and you use the "Return" button on the remote to go backwards back into the menu.

The startup screen has many applications, not just "Music". It also has Network. So happens I have some music on a networked 2 TB drive via wireless. I clicked the remote, and played a number of hi rez audio albums, 192-24 and 96-24, all of which played fine and on the CB3 HD menu showed up as "96-24". Again - wireless over my wireless network!!!@@@
post #4813 of 6787
Everything I've played so far is stereo hi rez. I can set the CB3 HD to play in two channel or derived multi-channel (using DTS Neo or DPL2x) fine. Very nice.

Gee, I have some multi-channel 192-24 and 96-24 FLAC stuff on some other 2 TB USB self-powered drives that I have. I will need to back up some of that onto my 2 TB wireless networked drive and see how that plays!!@@@@ Thats for another time, getting late tonight!
post #4814 of 6787
Woopee - each folder/album has the songs playing sequentially and automatically, just like playing a disc, or just like using my Bryston BDP-1 Media Player. WOW!
post #4815 of 6787
My prior Theta Compli Blu player would only play the 96-24 track and not the 192-24 tracks when connected via HDMI to the CB3 HD. Same for the Compli
Blu 3D as I play some of my Neil Young Blu Rays.

But likely once the CB3 HD firmware upgrade for 192-24 is available (no doubt pretty quickly for me perhaps), then the 192-24 tracks will play. Of course, I've long since dubbed the Neil Young Blu Rays onto my 3 TB external USB drive so I play them via my Bryston Media Player at full 192-24 rez!
post #4816 of 6787
Page 44 of the Oppo 95 Manual (Compli Blu 3D is an upgraded Oppo 95) explains why my 3 TB self-powered USB Drive didin't work::


The OPPO BDP-95 Blu-ray Disc Player is equipped with two USB ports (one on the front panel and the other on the back) and one e-SATA port on the back. You may use the USB port to plug in a USB drive, or the e-SATA port to plug in an e-SATA drive.

The USB ports are rated to provide a maximum of 5V, 1000mA power to the USB drive. It is sufficient for
USB thumb drives and flash memory card readers, but may not be sufficient for USB hard disks. It is
recommended to check with your drive manufacturer for power requirement, or use an external power supply.For the e-SATA port, you need to use an e-SATA drive with an external power supply.
The e-SATA port on the BDP-95 does NOT support “hot-plug”. To avoid any damage to your drive and the port, please always plug in or unplug the drive when the player is turned off.

NOTE This unit supports “USB Mass Storage Class Bulk-Only Transport” devices only. Most
USB thumbs drives, portable hard disk drives and card readers conform to this device
class. Other USB devices such as MP3 players, digital cameras, and mobile phones
may not be compatible. Supported USB drives can be formatted with the FAT (File Allocation Table), FAT32 or NTFS (New Technology File System) file system. In some cases, an incompatible USB/e-SATA device may cause the player to stop responding. If this occurs simply turn off the power, remove the USB device, and turn the player back on. The player accesses the USB drive in read-only mode. In order to minimize the risk of data corruption, it is recommended that you only unplug the USB device when playback is completely stopped. DO NOT attempt to plug in a USB connector to the e-SATA port, or plug in an e-SATA connector to the USB port(s). This might damage both your drive and the port(s).
post #4817 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Everything I've played so far is stereo hi rez. I can set the CB3 HD to play in two channel or derived multi-channel (using DTS Neo or DPL2x) fine. Very nice.

Gee, I have some multi-channel 192-24 and 96-24 FLAC stuff on some other 2 TB USB self-powered drives that I have. I will need to back up some of that onto my 2 TB wireless networked drive and see how that plays!!@@@@ Thats for another time, getting late tonight!

I am goin' to sleep! Meanwhile, I have some multi-channel 176-24 ISOs and DSF files being copied onto my networked 2 TB drive. So tomorrow I will find out if they play via the "Network" icon of the
Compli Blu 3D!!@@

wink.gif
post #4818 of 6787
The Oppo 93 FAQ which applies to the Oppo 95 is helpful with regard to this stuff also. The interface for the Oppo 103 remains pretty much the same - it's clunky but works.

http://watershade.net/wmcclain/BDP-93-faq.html
post #4819 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I am goin' to sleep! Meanwhile, I have some multi-channel 176-24 ISOs and DSF files being copied onto my networked 2 TB drive. So tomorrow I will find out if they play via the "Network" icon of the
Compli Blu 3D!!@@

wink.gif


I just tried my 176-24 multi-channel DSF files over the "Network" with the Compli Blu 3D. Doesn't work.
Probably only works with the FLAC stereo files, and perhaps WAV files (my stereo PCM music files are all FLAC uncompressed). Oh well!
post #4820 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by VGI View Post

Hey Guys


I hope to have some very good news later this week pertaining to some software updates for CB3HD..

This is Beta right now but i wanted to let you guys know we have not forgotten about all the requests we get for updates and believe me , Morris (Theta Boss) is working on everything we have asked for and more..

We hope to have very soon a Software update that will allow the Cb3HD using HDMI a full 192K input. The hardware was there to begin with it just wasn't opened up in the software. If all goes well we will have limited availability soon for people that actually want to test this. Keep in mind this is for people who have something connected that outputs 24/192K over HDMI..

We also might have a software fix for the left rear channel popping but no promises yet smile.gif

More to follow

Craig

It's here.....

post #4821 of 6787
Yea, I just upgraded my firmware!! Only took a few minutes as I did the front panel upgrade procedure which only loaded apparently one new/revised file. Cool!

Will demo it shortly.
post #4822 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

All songs played fine, with the 96-24 songs showing in the CB3 HD menu as "96-24", and with the 192-24 song showing also as "96-24".

Interesting. Same result as I got. You are able to feed the CB III HD with 192/24 and get sound in all modes.
Should I then understand that the CB III HD prosess the 192/24 to a 96/24 ?

How are you able to get the CB III HD to display "96-24" ?
post #4823 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANRE View Post

Interesting. Same result as I got. You are able to feed the CB III HD with 192/24 and get sound in all modes.
Should I then understand that the CB III HD prosess the 192/24 to a 96/24 ?

How are you able to get the CB III HD to display "96-24" ?

Actually, it displays "96.0"

Now that I just upgraded the firmware, with USB via USB stick, via network ethernet connection, or via blu ray, when the source over HDMI, the CB3 HD front panel will show "192.0" when the audio is 192-24!
Hit the "status" button near top right of remote to display the HDMI incoming audio resolution.
On blu ray I just confirmed this with the Neil Young blu ray set!
post #4824 of 6787
The new firmware only works for 192-24 over HDMI. I tried my Bryston BDP-1 connected via a digital AES/EBU cable to the CB3 HD, and I get no sound still if I play anything higher rez than 96-24.
post #4825 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANRE View Post


How are you able to get the CB III HD to display "96-24" ?

I would assume the only way to do is by the status button on the remote !
It seems that Theta did not supply me with the new remote when I did the uppgrade.

Do anyone know if this new remote is included in the uppgrade ?
post #4826 of 6787
Also, with the new CB3 HD firmware, I get "176.4" when I play any Reference Recordings 176-24 stuff via the network!!! COOL!

However, the Theta Compli Blu 3d, like the non-3d version before it, like the Oppos on which the Thetas are based, so not play Reference Recordings HRX 176-24 data discs - but again, they are all ripped to my hard drive and I play them via either the Bryston BDP-1 Media player straight into my Gen VIII Series 3 DAC, or I can play them as ripped over network from Compli Blu 3D over HDMI into CB3 HD.
Edited by Steve Bruzonsky - 2/20/13 at 9:23pm
post #4827 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Hit the "status" button near top right of remote to display the HDMI incoming audio resolution.

Obs. Just realized my old remote also have that status button. Thanks.
post #4828 of 6787
"2L The Nordic Sound" blu ray, all 3 audio tracks (5.1 DTS HD Master, 5.1 LPCM, and 2.0 LPCM) all play fine and show "192.0" in the CB3 HD display. The companion SACD disc plays fine and shows "88.2" on the CB3 HD front display.
post #4829 of 6787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Also, with the new CB3 HD firmware, I get "176.4" when I play any Reference Recordings 176-24 stuff via the network!!! COOL!

Well. This is all nice, but still the DAC's can only handle 96, so I suppose some "downsizing" is done. Would you or maybee Craig know ?

What has actually been changed in this update, except for acepting 176/24 & display 192/24 instead of 96/24 ?
No explanation on the Theta website.
Should we expect any sonic improvements?
post #4830 of 6787
Neil Young DVD-Audio disc multi-channel "American Stars 'N Bars" is 176-24. Plays fine with status shown as "176.4".
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